- 28,349
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
Yes, that's practically what I said. Alongside the "Between that and everything else." This isn't the witty retort or "gotcha" you might think it is.
Literally speaking, of course.
GT7 has failed to be Gran Turismo
- Thread starter m76
- 873 comments
- 108,541 views
Yes, that's practically what I said. Alongside the "Between that and everything else." This isn't the witty retort or "gotcha" you might think it is.
Literally speaking, of course.
FPV MIC
Premium
- 4,318
- Australia
- GT-MIC
I did that race recently too and it's a hard slog in the wet, and 10k seems like a kick in the guts when your told by the developer he doesn't want you to grind but just play the game. When far shorter races pay a hell of a lot more for doing much, much less it just shows up the complete credit imbalance that forces the grind to get the cars and not play the way the game was intended... unless the way it's intended to be played is by using microtransactions
- 17,259
- United Kingdom
It's not meant to be a witty retort or a gotcha.. it's highlighting a post that is highly representative of, what is around these parts, a prevailing self imposed mindset that having fun is secondary or tertiary behind getting credits.
- 11,166
- Central Coast, NSW
- Com_Fox5
- EelX 5
Fair enough on me being wrong on the name
But that dooesnt change the issue.
Repeating the same event title for multiple levels and minor variations isn't a good thing. I consider repeating events to be the weakest element of GT3 for example.
Sunday Cup 400, Sunday Cup 500 make them feel more like bucket lists to ticks instead of their own identity to try out on their own like in GT4 (mostly) and even GT5 and having no minor difference.
Before, we wouldn't have a "Americsn Sunday Cup 600", we'd call it "Stars & Stripes" which makes it sound more interesting. Makes me sound like a geyser but events was a lot better at making single player feel more alive.
- 28,349
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
...Prevailing self imposed mindset?
Let me ask a critical question: how is one to continue having "fun"— seeing as you want to use it as an all-encompassing absolute and not the relative term it is — when you're unable to purchase the cars wanted without spending a frankly absurd amount of hours grinding for one, let alone two, of the multi-million credits cars and continue playing the way one wants?
Every previous mainline GT game has employed exactly that, so why does GT7 suddenly get a pass? And, no, I do not want every car right this moment. Nor does anyone else. No one has ever said that. Whether you wanted to suggest that or not, I'm putting that thought to bed right now.
My idea of "fun" is completing races in the cars I love and are interested in. I can't do that in GT7 without grinding the same race(s) umpteen times without any variety. The only thing everyone here is highlighting is a fundamental flaw in the game's design, because if there weren't a flaw...why were several race payouts nerfed? More importantly, and I should have lead with this, what kind of a rebuttal is this anyway?
Credits are paramount to having "fun" in the game in the first place. Without credits, you can't do anything.
- 114
- United States
- KoldStrejke
I agree it is lacking in a lot of ways. One of they ways, is Theres not enough tracks. They just used tracks from GT:S. We need tracks from all the old Origanal Tracks. ALL. Just my honest opinion. Yeah. I am really thinking of shelfing this game unless they make more tracks available. I have made it to Menu 31 and I am bored out of my mind. The AI Sucks.
LoL if the GT Series of games where ever, AAA. My Crap is made of gold.
LoL if the GT Series of games where ever, AAA. My Crap is made of gold.
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- 1,251
- Australia
PS3 onwards was the beginning of delays and consistently bad game launches era. Before that GT games were just fine and dandy
- 130
- Hong Kong
This game is just a boring piece of c£@p! Enough is enough already of this dog-tired racing from Gran Turismo.
You can see as plain as day the useless algorithms this game resorts to in trying to provide a racing experience. It's so dull, annoying, regressive and counter-intuitive.
You can see as plain as day the useless algorithms this game resorts to in trying to provide a racing experience. It's so dull, annoying, regressive and counter-intuitive.
I totally agree with you and instead of making GT7 into a best game ever, they have made a circus out of it.
- 593
- Umeå
I wish GT Café would be more like a bonus feature for people who like to collect. Change the name to Collector’s Hall and have a large menu book with various orders that you can complete in any order. Completing them then rewards exclusive cars within that category or large sums of money. Ranking up your collector level gives you permanent car invitations with more expensive cars the higher your level is.
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- 349
- Wales
Yep, they should certainly have ‘allowed’ us to ignore it and start off the trad way, just buy a car and go racing, earn and upgrade/sell and buy something better. Rinse and repeat.
The cafe is like a drug-induced bad dream. Just why? Who is this guy who forces you to go collect? Why? What’s his motive? Why a cafe? So many questions...
The whole cafe-Pokédex thing should’ve been binned at the first devs’ brainstorming session. That it wasn’t tells us exactly whose bad idea it was.
As usual with PD the cafe is a decent enough idea that wasn't fleshed out properly at all. If the goal is you and a buddy building up a car collection, it should be far more free flowing and open. You should be able to just build up a car collection yourself, enter races in any order you like, and when you happened to complete a menu book your buddy can pop up and tell you "Hey, you've got three of X now, pretty cool."
It's very gamey and linear. The guy asks you to collect three cars, the game tells you that you can get them by finishing third in this race event. First of all, why? Who is handing out cars for finishing third or better in a random one off race? Who organised it? Secondly, it kills all the fun and mystery of collecting cars, something the old games had. As long as you didn't look up a guide and spoil it, you had no idea what cars you'd earn from events. You built up your own collection and got a nice surprise when a car not in the dealership was given to you.
There is no challenge in finding or acquiring them. The game just gives you the three cars on a plate. They're clearly leaning into the Pokémon with cars idea but there is no hunt, no surprise reward. Granted you can't directly translate hunting for Pokémon to hunting for cars in a racing game, you can't hide a car round the back of the Trial Mountain pit lane or in a scapes photo. What they could have done though is told you that you can win a car, but not specifically what event. Just that it's one of 8 or something. So when you do find it, there is just a little bit of a feeling of the hunt. That was always how it was in the old games, you didn't know the prize until you got it.
For cars you can't win instead of automatically putting them in the UCD create some sort of minigame where you have to track them down. I'm not sure what, but surely they could come up with something.
Then there is the linearity issue that could be negated by letting you have multiple incomplete books open at a time, which would again help with the hunt aspect. You win a championship and what do you win? Could be one for the Mustang book, could be one for the City car book. It's not much, but that little bit of suspense and surprise can really make a difference. Everyone would have a different journey depending on which events they choose to do.
Then once you've completed your collection there should have been a racing career that makes use of them all.
It's very gamey and linear. The guy asks you to collect three cars, the game tells you that you can get them by finishing third in this race event. First of all, why? Who is handing out cars for finishing third or better in a random one off race? Who organised it? Secondly, it kills all the fun and mystery of collecting cars, something the old games had. As long as you didn't look up a guide and spoil it, you had no idea what cars you'd earn from events. You built up your own collection and got a nice surprise when a car not in the dealership was given to you.
There is no challenge in finding or acquiring them. The game just gives you the three cars on a plate. They're clearly leaning into the Pokémon with cars idea but there is no hunt, no surprise reward. Granted you can't directly translate hunting for Pokémon to hunting for cars in a racing game, you can't hide a car round the back of the Trial Mountain pit lane or in a scapes photo. What they could have done though is told you that you can win a car, but not specifically what event. Just that it's one of 8 or something. So when you do find it, there is just a little bit of a feeling of the hunt. That was always how it was in the old games, you didn't know the prize until you got it.
For cars you can't win instead of automatically putting them in the UCD create some sort of minigame where you have to track them down. I'm not sure what, but surely they could come up with something.
Then there is the linearity issue that could be negated by letting you have multiple incomplete books open at a time, which would again help with the hunt aspect. You win a championship and what do you win? Could be one for the Mustang book, could be one for the City car book. It's not much, but that little bit of suspense and surprise can really make a difference. Everyone would have a different journey depending on which events they choose to do.
Then once you've completed your collection there should have been a racing career that makes use of them all.
- 13,902
- Adelaide
- Neomone
They somehow managed to make a Gran Turismo with a bunch of stuff that other games do the same or better, but without the things that Gran Turismo really excelled at. Apart from Scapes I suppose, but if Photography Simulator was a massive market we'd probably have seen other games getting into it by now.
Like, yeah? The game structures itself around progression and building up a car collection/modifying your own cars. If it's not going to reward you for playing the game, then why would you play it over any of the other games that do racing better but have little to no career structure at all?
The joy of being rewarded after succeeding at a challenge is part of the fun, and it's necessary to keep having fun because of the way the game is put together. I keep seeing people trying to make others feel bad for wanting to be rewarded for playing the game and just... what? Isn't that part of what made Gran Turismo so popular in the first place? That it wasn't a soulless simulation where you had to have enough passion for driving to make you keep coming back, it took the reward structure from RPGs and used it to encourage people to learn to have fun driving cars.
I swear some people just want Gran Turismo to be Assetto Corsa with better graphics and more cars.
- 645
- England
Career mode is pah on GT7 if they had put in the career mode from GT 2&4 it would be awesome.
I liked GT7 but I do find as the game has advanced they are making it harder and harder and I am not a fan off that I think it spoils it as it is to hard.
All above you have put I agree with alas some of it has been fixed as in the bugs.
Depends if your a rally enthusiast personally I don't like Fishermans Ranch, I did it when I had to for the Cafe Menu and I know if you sit for 5 years trying to get gold on the Circuit Experience you can grab 2m credits but as a whole I think the rally stages should be a seperate part of the game completely like Cars and Bikes were in Drive Club.
I would rather race tarmac tracks and leave the car ballet to Colin MCrae games.
I know some love the rallying in the game and others hate it I just hope it stays to a minimum in GT games.
- 234
- Ireland
I would actually refute this statement, most of GT's fanbase think it's varying degrees of 'bad'. I would argue rally is now a bizarre hangover from a time where GT was fairly up to (reasonable) comparison with rally games of the time, around Gran Turismo 3. However, in an era with the modern Dirt Rally and WRC games, it's SO out of touch with the competition it's just a very strange experience.
- 645
- England
I'm sure some people out there do enjoy the dirt racing on GT7 but it's absolutely not based on reality in pretty much any aspect. It's so far behind the proper rally games it's laughable. I'm sure they only include it as a bullet point of features and to make some sort of use of all the rally cars they insist on modelling.
- 130
- Hong Kong
I am still trying to tune the Shelby 427. I had it right for one track then on another it was so bad l gave up. Not even ballast could cure it. It's shocking.
In the WTC 700 Dragon Trail race it has chronic oversteer all over the place. It is way too extreme.
I don't think this game has ever been a game really. It's an annoying and absurd 'frankenstein' of a game.
I don't even think this game has been playtested. That's been left to us, and we've paid Polyphony to do it.
In the WTC 700 Dragon Trail race it has chronic oversteer all over the place. It is way too extreme.
I don't think this game has ever been a game really. It's an annoying and absurd 'frankenstein' of a game.
I don't even think this game has been playtested. That's been left to us, and we've paid Polyphony to do it.
Best GT game so far by a country mile IMO.
And I've played all the iterations.
Graphics are better, no ridiculous 'standard' models that totally ruin the experience, great UI, marques like Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini and Porsche that were absent in 1-4.
Endurance races don't take the word 'endurance' literally i.e. 24 hours of staring at a screen 😂
And still has all the aspects from the earlier games like the car wash and tuning shop. Got the balance just right.
And since I'm quite antisocial anyway, multiplayer is irrelevant. Particularly when I tried it once on GT Sport and had some **** driving the wrong way down the track ramming everyone in sight. No, thanks.
And I've played all the iterations.
Graphics are better, no ridiculous 'standard' models that totally ruin the experience, great UI, marques like Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini and Porsche that were absent in 1-4.
Endurance races don't take the word 'endurance' literally i.e. 24 hours of staring at a screen 😂
And still has all the aspects from the earlier games like the car wash and tuning shop. Got the balance just right.
And since I'm quite antisocial anyway, multiplayer is irrelevant. Particularly when I tried it once on GT Sport and had some **** driving the wrong way down the track ramming everyone in sight. No, thanks.
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- 1,441
- They/Them
- Autumnal_Glow
- AutumnalGlow
True.
How?
lol
Pretty standard these days, isn't it?
Can't say that's a good thing, as someone that loves long races.
Idk about "all", but yes those are present. Car washing seems to be entirely useless, though? I still can't be entirely sure if the very slight improvement to the reflectiveness is placebo or not.
- 211
- Scotland
Agreed. IMO the rally parts of all GT s have always been crap. Doesn’t need to be as Hardcore as Dirt Rally is now but something like the dirt games with a bit more realism would be perfect.
Basically they are an afterthought but I’m living in hope we get Pikes peak. I would pay for a Hillclimb dlc no problem. Anyone who likes Hillclimbs watch Hillclimb monsters on YouTube. There’s a Mercedes ex DTM with a Judd Le Mans engine and loads of other monsters. My favourite YouTube channel apart from ogling the restored Bultaco pursangs And Honda ATC 250 r s. Looking to get one of the Bultacos to restore. My first bike was a Honda ATC 50 when I was four. So I want the 250 r now. Used to have it on my bedroom wall.
- 13,902
- Adelaide
- Neomone
There's nothing wrong with long races, but the way that Gran Turismo has traditionally done the very long races is both very unfriendly to the player and absolutely nothing like any real life endurance race. B-Spec in GT4 and mid-race saves in GT5 both helped, but were a long way from an actual player friendly solution.
And before the participation award brigade chimes in, there's a difference between making something require skill and stamina and making something that is trivially difficult but incredibly time consuming. I'd argue that endurance races that were more considerate of the player's time and bladder but that actually required skill to win would be preferable to going in circles for 24 hours watching Netflix on a second screen.
If you love long races, play ACC.
- 324
- Hungary
Actually it is the w o r s t sadly. Mostly due to the lack of traditional GT content and the linear career mode. The wonky physics and economy issues are just added insult to injury.
That only makes your assessment all the more baffling.
I agree, that the graphics is better, but it is the least of my concern when playing driving games. I still go back from time to time to LFS, and have more fun with it than what GT7 offers, and I'm not bothered by the graphics.
I don't know how standard models ruin the experience? I really appreciated their inclusion in previous games. If you didn't like them you could always ignore them, as if they weren't in the game. They gave more car variety which is actually a big issue in GT7, as lots of manufacturer lineups are lacking.
I never really had much issue with the UI in previous games. I think GT7 ui is neither great nor the worst of the series.
Absent due to licensing issues, I'm glad they are included now, but that's not a big consolation especially with the awful rotating dealership and economy, I don't have much of a chance of acquiring the most desired ones anyway.
I actually loved B-Spec mode in the old games, a 30 minute race is not an endurance race. But of course GT7 tests your patience even in a 3 minute race, so there are other issues that need a fix before I'd even consider longer 2-3 hour races. Like the ridiculous pit strategy of the AI, but mostly the unpredictable grip and snap oversteer.
I'm not a fan of how they are now fully embracing GT Auto as a joke. It feels out of place in a game that wants to endear people to car culture.
I'm not a fan of multiplayer either (hate to depend on strangers for my fun), sadly the issues of GT7 don't only affect multiplayer. I'm of the mind that this should be a stirctly SP game, but of course that would be a very unpopular opinion. So I don't mind it as long as it doesn't affect progression.
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I also don't think the game was tested, because if it was tested months before March 4th then we would not have any bugs/glitches in the game. @Ryan81 you say it is the best GT game so far by a country mile IMO, I would not rate GT7 no more than a 3 out of 10 game.
Ok the graphics are better and that's all I can say about GT7, and I have played all the GT series games over the years and GT7 is by far the worst game I have ever played. You would think a GT game in the year 2022, will be a lot better than a GT game that came out around 12 years ago.
A game that came out around 12 years ago was GT5, I have been playing that game as well as GT4 today and it's a lot older game on PS2. I have been enjoying them 2 games and you think a 2022 game called GT7 would be better than GT4 & GT5 to play, no it does not come even close to them 2 games.
I would say if GT7 was structured just around GT4/GT5 gameplay with today graphics and without B-spec, then GT7 would have been the best racing game ever to come from console, but instead we have crap in GT7 like the menu book which is a dumb idea to have, and all the other rubbish events in the game as well.
I see a couple of you guys asking how the inclusion of standard models ruined the experience and how you can just ignore them if you don't want to use them.
Thing is, it's difficult to ignore when more than 70% of the field in GT5 and GT6 consisted of standards. I like playing in cockpit view, gives a great feeling of immersion. With standards, you get a blacked out cockpit with no details.
Not only that, when racing you get 2 or 3 beautiful premiums and then standing out like a sore thumb the standards.
Which other racing games had PS2 era models alongside PS3 era models?
B-Spec I didn't have a great deal of use for or love for. It was good for making money I must admit but otherwise, not my cup of tea.
I just feel GT7 is nicely streamlined and they removed all the things that were annoying and/or useless. Again, I emphasize: just my opinion.
The only thing at the moment which is a bit of a let down, is the lack of variety when it comes to particular types of vehicles e.g. SUVs, estates, saloons, kei cars etc. But they have said that they will be supporting the game in the near future with extra DLC so no doubt some of these limitations will be addressed.
I forgot to mention how much improved the engine sounds are compared to earlier games too. No longer a convoy of generic hoovers lol. And the physics are far more realistic than GT1 to 4.
Thing is, it's difficult to ignore when more than 70% of the field in GT5 and GT6 consisted of standards. I like playing in cockpit view, gives a great feeling of immersion. With standards, you get a blacked out cockpit with no details.
Not only that, when racing you get 2 or 3 beautiful premiums and then standing out like a sore thumb the standards.
Which other racing games had PS2 era models alongside PS3 era models?
B-Spec I didn't have a great deal of use for or love for. It was good for making money I must admit but otherwise, not my cup of tea.
I just feel GT7 is nicely streamlined and they removed all the things that were annoying and/or useless. Again, I emphasize: just my opinion.
The only thing at the moment which is a bit of a let down, is the lack of variety when it comes to particular types of vehicles e.g. SUVs, estates, saloons, kei cars etc. But they have said that they will be supporting the game in the near future with extra DLC so no doubt some of these limitations will be addressed.
I forgot to mention how much improved the engine sounds are compared to earlier games too. No longer a convoy of generic hoovers lol. And the physics are far more realistic than GT1 to 4.
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- 13,902
- Adelaide
- Neomone
No, you couldn't ignore them. You didn't have to drive them yourself (apart from the races that required you to, like the Lupo Cup) but that didn't mean you could stop them showing up in your races. The graphical difference between premium and standard was big enough to be jarring for a decent amount of people. That's a negative for the experience.
If you didn't notice them then that's great for you, but some of us would have given up that variety (a bunch of which was artificial anyway thanks to the ludicrous duplication to meet that magical 1000 figure) in order to have a game that was visually consistent. I don't mind what GT4 looks like in HD, even to this day, but if you start mixing it in with higher quality content it just looks bad.
The lack of variety in GT7 is more down to the specific cars they chose to put in the game rather than the number. 400 cars is more than enough to have a wide variety if you select well.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Rally is crap, but so is drifting. I hate those missions with a passion and have not golded the mission series because of them. The rally crap I could still do, drifting I can barely scrape out a bronze.
The AI and UI are my biggest gripes after the grinding and lack of race content.
The AI is a big downgrade from GT Sport. Sure, they are a bit faster. But only because they cheat more and ignore the player 99% of the time. The only time they 'see' you is when you dive on their inside. The rest of the time they stick to the racing line like rail cars and are equally unaffected when contact happens. When the track gets wet, they go by completely different physics. They use different tire wear modifiers anyway, always use softs in custom endurance races even though with the settings you use you can hardly make 2 laps on N24 on softs. The AI has no trouble doing 5 laps on softs before pitting again. Pitting 5 sec faster than you under similar circumstances as well.
The UI is aggravating, switching 'pages' is slower than loading a track on ps5... So many useful shortcuts are missing. You can't save custom race settings nor the grid you create. Everything always resets, got to keep setting the sort and format for garage cars every time. Can't just browse your favorites, what's the point in marking them? Can't buy tires in the race screen, can't see the weather forecast at race start, an so on.
I love the implementation of dynamic weather, puddles forming, dry lines. It's a shame the AI just ignores all of it or starts driving at 90 kph until they can switch tires. Hopefully more tracks will get the full day/night cycle treatment and rain. It was kinda shocking only a few tracks actually have this. What has PD been doing all these years. 4 old tracks and a pit lane penalty?
The AI and UI are my biggest gripes after the grinding and lack of race content.
The AI is a big downgrade from GT Sport. Sure, they are a bit faster. But only because they cheat more and ignore the player 99% of the time. The only time they 'see' you is when you dive on their inside. The rest of the time they stick to the racing line like rail cars and are equally unaffected when contact happens. When the track gets wet, they go by completely different physics. They use different tire wear modifiers anyway, always use softs in custom endurance races even though with the settings you use you can hardly make 2 laps on N24 on softs. The AI has no trouble doing 5 laps on softs before pitting again. Pitting 5 sec faster than you under similar circumstances as well.
The UI is aggravating, switching 'pages' is slower than loading a track on ps5... So many useful shortcuts are missing. You can't save custom race settings nor the grid you create. Everything always resets, got to keep setting the sort and format for garage cars every time. Can't just browse your favorites, what's the point in marking them? Can't buy tires in the race screen, can't see the weather forecast at race start, an so on.
I love the implementation of dynamic weather, puddles forming, dry lines. It's a shame the AI just ignores all of it or starts driving at 90 kph until they can switch tires. Hopefully more tracks will get the full day/night cycle treatment and rain. It was kinda shocking only a few tracks actually have this. What has PD been doing all these years. 4 old tracks and a pit lane penalty?
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