- 171
- Equalityland
That was the very fun part of GT3>4! Overwhelming entertainment experience!
GT7 has failed to be Gran Turismo
- Thread starter m76
- 873 comments
- 108,485 views
By the time GT7 will be fixed, there would be PlayStation 7 and Forza Motorsport 9. Not to mention, PD is responsible of ONLY ONE game...Gran Turismo, but still they don't learn anything from the past and from the community suggestions.
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- 1,526
- Indonesia
Don't have issues? Would you still have to deal with horrible AI? Any GT game.
And you're racing against terrible AI that PD has no idea to make despite being a game developer. They're just joyrides around the circuit with different cars and lap numbers. They should just stick to modelling cars if it's the only good thing they can do (but doesn't deserve credit for graphics). They have no idea of racing at all but lies about the franchise being categorized as racing game.
Eh what? The only way for GT7 to be fixed is to write off PD from the scene entirely. But that'd mean GT no longer exists, but perhaps the car encyclopedia field in gaming would be handed into something proper.
Also in reality some of GT7's grievance comes from the past GT, so stop putting older GTs into pedestal, in reality GT was never really good, they got too much credit all the time, it's just nostalgia filter. Even creating double standard to complain about something in GT7 that actually has been done on older GT, but of course it's OlDeR Gt so it's completely ok.
- 1,437
- The Motherland
- Manasseh257
THIS RIGHT HERE! I truthfully believe that PD has no idea what direction they want to go with this and there's just no clear focus. E-Sports? Single Player? Racing sim? Mind you, they can hit all areas and be well rounded provided they approach it correctly. However, they're completely off kilter of what they want GT7 to be. Regardless of what they said vocally
- 4,549
- Australia
- 51,336
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
No doubt. I feel GTPSP is a better thought out game and that's pretty much a port.
Kaz HAD
to add the licence tests. No matter the ease of them, there's still not much teaching in these. I've driven in the rain and still don't have a rain licence. We get sections of the track to get a licence, but the licence should be more like a turotial with Circuit Experience(wow, what a good idea). Even that S-10 917k "test". Expound on that and make it a short race with other cars. Give the solo player the chance to practice, qualify and then race the AI. Just complete the race and they get a licence. Rewards go up, the higher the finished placing. Cap it off with the same Bronze, Silver, Gold reward cars. It doesn't have to be the way i just described, but PD haven't executed. They have not finish their tasks(obviously) with this game.
Silver Arrows
(Banned)
- 4,715
- Brandon, MB
- Silver-Arrows21
The idea of melding the license tests, and the general circuit learning aspects of Circuit Experience (while leaving the one lap runs to another mode) would certainly be a smarter idea in making license tests feel actually worthwhile.
At the very least, license tests have been incredibly neutered since GT5 to the point where they're actively pointless...which makes you wonder why the hell they're intent on continuing putting them into the games.
At the very least, license tests have been incredibly neutered since GT5 to the point where they're actively pointless...which makes you wonder why the hell they're intent on continuing putting them into the games.
- 16,438
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
- 107
- Germany
Yeah - but they knew the conditions, directly, wegen the Race Starts. And I really See a Problem there. A Fee das ago i spontanously start a le man's Race - starting Screen - Sunny. So i choose RHs - i Hit Start the Race ... And it ist raining ... I don't News a prediction Like in lap 4 IT Starts to Rain. But at least - what are the current conditions.Real race teams get the tyres ready regardless of the forecast...
Pretty sure a lot of race teams in different race series also change tyres on the grid last minute too, Which I guess you can do before you start the race in GT7, you can see whether the clouds are grey or if its sunshine, even hear rain falling if its raining so you can change your tyres before starting the race.
- 2,046
- United Kingdom
- AWRacing17
1) I don’t believe you but 2) I literally just said what you had happens when cars line up on the grid and the em weather changes and teams scramble to change tyres
- 700
- Austria
Did it just rain a little or was the track wet...?
Rain dosen't always automatically mean that you need wets or intermediates...
On my last Le mans Race(the 30 min one) it stated to rain at the beginning of lap3 but the road wasn't really wet until the end of lap3...wich was ok with me, because i was planning to make it 3 laps before I hit the pit for fuel and tires...
- 364
- Vancouver
- GUNSLINGER_R450
I believe it's fair to say that this franchise lost sight of its origin and intent right after Gt4.
If I remember correctly, and as an old man with a spotty memory you can tell me if I am wrong. One of Kaz's intentions for this game was to celebrate cars and build a library of them. That is why the first two games had a huge selection of cars IMO. And by the time we approached the release of the PS3, (and subsequently GT5) you could see the possibility of achieving this grand library with DLC and the updated technology that console promised.
PD could follow the template of the original games and infuse new technology, new features and ideas, and new cars via new editions of the game and DLC updates. Follow the original intent of the game and keep it very much Japanese in form and charm, but evolve the content globally as the automobile industry was evolving. At this point I will concede that GT5 and GT6 had large car counts but the renderings weren't the new modelling of the premium cars that we frankly should have received over the the three years between those titles. GT6 also had 100 tracks which was a high point too, but then the count receded immediately with Sport as did the car count. I digress.
IMO, the peaking growth of 2010-2013 was a red herring. What we are left with today, is a broadly altered path of the franchise. They have deviated from the original charm and intended content that the franchise started with. GT7 is a much different body of work than what we could have envisioned based on the intention and goals outlined with GT1 and GT2. And you could say the explosive growth in GT5. Sadly, PD and Kaz have lost their way I think, and I don't believe they can get it back if you objectively consider what they have done with this edition of the franchise.
I believe we would have a very different game in our hands if PD and Kaz had stayed truer to the original concept of the franchise over the last couple of decades and had they spring boarded off of the achievements of GT5 and GT6 which arguably they should have done. Oh well, right?
If I remember correctly, and as an old man with a spotty memory you can tell me if I am wrong. One of Kaz's intentions for this game was to celebrate cars and build a library of them. That is why the first two games had a huge selection of cars IMO. And by the time we approached the release of the PS3, (and subsequently GT5) you could see the possibility of achieving this grand library with DLC and the updated technology that console promised.
PD could follow the template of the original games and infuse new technology, new features and ideas, and new cars via new editions of the game and DLC updates. Follow the original intent of the game and keep it very much Japanese in form and charm, but evolve the content globally as the automobile industry was evolving. At this point I will concede that GT5 and GT6 had large car counts but the renderings weren't the new modelling of the premium cars that we frankly should have received over the the three years between those titles. GT6 also had 100 tracks which was a high point too, but then the count receded immediately with Sport as did the car count. I digress.
IMO, the peaking growth of 2010-2013 was a red herring. What we are left with today, is a broadly altered path of the franchise. They have deviated from the original charm and intended content that the franchise started with. GT7 is a much different body of work than what we could have envisioned based on the intention and goals outlined with GT1 and GT2. And you could say the explosive growth in GT5. Sadly, PD and Kaz have lost their way I think, and I don't believe they can get it back if you objectively consider what they have done with this edition of the franchise.
I believe we would have a very different game in our hands if PD and Kaz had stayed truer to the original concept of the franchise over the last couple of decades and had they spring boarded off of the achievements of GT5 and GT6 which arguably they should have done. Oh well, right?
- 107
- Germany
Hi,
Very nice reply ... Are you Always thus Kind of constructive in discussions?
And of course it's different in reality.
1st - I read the forcasts, so I knew already If I have to expect stable or instable weather.
2nd - by experience, I know If the weather is stable at e.g. the Nürburgring in June or Probe to bei very unstable in e.g. April.
3rd - when I went to my Car in the Box - i See that the Asphalt is wer, dry, its pouring or Just Dripping a Bit - so I can Decide to Change Tires, depending on the Rules of the Race I can even Change the Tires after Installation lap.
In GT7 i am doomed to the Tires I have choosen for the First lap - because I don't know anything about the weather until I am already in the Race. You geht the information in the current conditions to Late. That weather nicht Change - no Deal. But as Long as you have Open eyes you know the conditions right the Moment you enter the boxes. What ever Happens Later ist another Story of course.
BR K.
Very nice reply ... Are you Always thus Kind of constructive in discussions?
And of course it's different in reality.
1st - I read the forcasts, so I knew already If I have to expect stable or instable weather.
2nd - by experience, I know If the weather is stable at e.g. the Nürburgring in June or Probe to bei very unstable in e.g. April.
3rd - when I went to my Car in the Box - i See that the Asphalt is wer, dry, its pouring or Just Dripping a Bit - so I can Decide to Change Tires, depending on the Rules of the Race I can even Change the Tires after Installation lap.
In GT7 i am doomed to the Tires I have choosen for the First lap - because I don't know anything about the weather until I am already in the Race. You geht the information in the current conditions to Late. That weather nicht Change - no Deal. But as Long as you have Open eyes you know the conditions right the Moment you enter the boxes. What ever Happens Later ist another Story of course.
BR K.
- 107
- Germany
I know - thats also not my Point. It is also Not the Point that weather Changes. I Just criticize, that I Lack a very Basic information, which I have when I Look Out in the Track - and so far this was Not Always acurate in the Game.
BR K
- 112
- Netherlands
Very well put together, I couldn’t agree more. I’m one of the fools that bought a PS5 over the excitement for this installment of the series.
Good thing my wife still gets a lot of use of the system, else I’d probably have sold it. If this is what we’re getting, after all that has been said and promised, this will be the final Gran Turismo I’ve ever bought.
- 107
- Germany
Hi JMR,
I Like a Lot of the stuff that ist in GT7 and technologically it is fine from my Perspective. I Had some Problems With the driving physics at the beginning, but either the Updates fixes some of my Problems or I learned to handle Them.
I think that the small issues are the Problems. In some parts the Game doesn't communicate enough With you, then the concept of invites to buy certain Cars doesn't make Sense to ne - If you want to make some Cars Special - make them prices in hard to win Races, make them very expensive, let them only appear a Few das from time to time. But in the Others Hand - why make Cars incredible expensive, that are only Special because of their price?
And the Credit reward System is crazy and without Logic. Driving to get Cars is the Basic Idea - but when you only have a small Number of Races you can really choose IT becomes Boring very fast. And Races which Need more expensive Equipment and Need more time - must yield more Credits the opposite. And this ist a Problem you could Change quite fast - by Just adding Events in the Race Tracks. They don't News to bei 1Mio Events - but some 100-250.000 Events, that you are Not economocally punished, when you Drive e.g. Laguna Seca in a Civic, instead of Focus RS in Fishermens ...
I Like a Lot of the stuff that ist in GT7 and technologically it is fine from my Perspective. I Had some Problems With the driving physics at the beginning, but either the Updates fixes some of my Problems or I learned to handle Them.
I think that the small issues are the Problems. In some parts the Game doesn't communicate enough With you, then the concept of invites to buy certain Cars doesn't make Sense to ne - If you want to make some Cars Special - make them prices in hard to win Races, make them very expensive, let them only appear a Few das from time to time. But in the Others Hand - why make Cars incredible expensive, that are only Special because of their price?
And the Credit reward System is crazy and without Logic. Driving to get Cars is the Basic Idea - but when you only have a small Number of Races you can really choose IT becomes Boring very fast. And Races which Need more expensive Equipment and Need more time - must yield more Credits the opposite. And this ist a Problem you could Change quite fast - by Just adding Events in the Race Tracks. They don't News to bei 1Mio Events - but some 100-250.000 Events, that you are Not economocally punished, when you Drive e.g. Laguna Seca in a Civic, instead of Focus RS in Fishermens ...
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- 51,336
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
One of the things they missed, was to implement the prize cars in the way of GT3. At least, repeating events grants you the possibility of gett8ng a different colors. Yes, there wasn’t a livery editor, but if PD are go8ng to stick with this roulette thing, have the 917K, Carrera GT and GT1, on the wheel.
Of course, today, it’s never going to happen with the MTX in place. Yet, race even prize car roulettes would be a good frustration to have over the tickets.
Of course, today, it’s never going to happen with the MTX in place. Yet, race even prize car roulettes would be a good frustration to have over the tickets.
- 13,899
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Gran Turismo 1 had 140 cars. That's not huge.
GT2 had a lot.
But then GT3 didn't.
Then GT4 had a lot a lot.
Then we got the whole Premium/Standard fiasco with GT5 and 6.
Then GTS had hardly any.
Now GT7 has what might be described as a middling amount of cars?
There's nothing really consistent in the history of Gran Turismo about having a large car roster outside of one specific period on the PS3 where they decided they would have the most cars even if they had to shoehorn in assets that were a decade out of date.
Big games: GT2, GT4.
Medium sized games: GT7
Small games: GT1, GT3, GTS.
Games that are confusingly neither because it's Polyphony waving it's willy around in a highly inappropriate manner: GT5, GT6.
- 1,526
- Indonesia
The offline race events are just Arcade mode with pre-set regulations. Nuff said. All are about time trial surrounding braindead AI, just that certain events forces you to use this car, another one forces you to use certain drivetrain, etc. While in Arcade mode you can freely use any cars you want and also set race length.
Actually never put any of the older games on pedestal. And especially don't tell to follow the template of original games or such, GT gets too much credit too in the past. In reality GT4 is a game with all the following:
- UI/UX even more terrible than GT7 (other than next License but that's also a downgrade from before, of course silly PD thinks it's good idea).
- The tedious, frustrating, and way too much License tests.
- Duplicate, unnecessary, out of date, cars. GT has always fooled the players into thinking that they have huge car lists.
- Covering their incompetence of game design with rubberbanding in AI
- Worse, they neglect it to focus on useless Photo Mode (what inept move)
- Locking the players of the cars with not for sale cars, prize exclusive cars, or used cars.
- Even if the events are many, those consist of repetitive events with only difference in cars and laps, or championship format/not.
- Frustrating mission design with players being forced to wait or unfair penalty.
- Terrible car sound.
- etc.
But now you can freely change car's colors at GT Auto. Not in those older games. Oh well, this shows another aspect of older GT that is overlooked, about how GT has always been left behind by other competitors even from long ago, in this case, they won't implement basic customizations until very much later, like just changing car colors.
And PD lied starting back then at that time, claiming GT3 to have over 200 cars, when it only has 181.
- 40,832
The problem with noting the problems with GT7 as existing in prior GT games was that up through GT3 the franchise was so laughably ahead of everyone else on the market basically across the board (the main exception was always sounds) that it comes off a bit as revisionism to mention how it should have been noticed before. Yes, the cracks were definitely starting to show with GT4 in particular being clearly the start of when PD was chasing stuff to put on the back of the box over attention to detail and where PD's particular stubbornness of game design was becoming apparent/worse (something that swelled into a complete disaster during GT5's development period of getting high off of each other's farts and which GT6 did nothing to fix with its "placeholders"); but even in 2005 it's a pretty short list of games that were anywhere near GT4 as an overall package even if the game design of GT4 was substantially worse than previous games.
Enthusia? PGR2? Porsche Unleashed on PC? TXRD2? I'm struggling to come up with real examples and not borderline cult classics.
Enthusia? PGR2? Porsche Unleashed on PC? TXRD2? I'm struggling to come up with real examples and not borderline cult classics.
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- 1,526
- Indonesia
GT4 was only one example. If you insist for other GTs, then for GT3, some of what mentioned above also applies there (forgot to mention that some of those below can apply to other GTs):
To justify any past GTs because of pretty short list of games that were anywhere near the franchise as an overall package was what feeds PD's delusions further and left those issues unnoticed.
- Covering their incompetence of game design with rubberbanding in AI.
- Locking the players of the cars with not for sale cars, prize exclusive cars.
- Even if the events are many, those consist of repetitive events with only difference in cars and laps, or championship format/not.
- Terrible car sound.
- A step down in UX compared to previous games by removing menu and License shortcuts - something PD would pull much later consistently.
- The start of that horrible rally physics (not that GT2 was any better, but GT3 had different but what's carried until now), no excuses regardless of what era it was released.
- Frustrating event design like forcing you to race in Test Course in big number of laps several damn times.
- Track padding with Reverse being separated as "II".
- (iirc) Can't halt long-ass Championships.
- The pioneer of the gacha roulette system, at least in animation. Gotta repeat long-ass races to get the car you want with cars being locked there.
- etc.
To justify any past GTs because of pretty short list of games that were anywhere near the franchise as an overall package was what feeds PD's delusions further and left those issues unnoticed.
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Silver Arrows
(Banned)
- 4,715
- Brandon, MB
- Silver-Arrows21
Yeeeep.
I think people are willing to look past the faults of the older GT titles because, ultimately, at their core, they are still fun titles. And really, that's the best way to look at the older titles up to GT4.
It's when people look at the older titles with rose colored glasses, or in this case, absolute scorn because of the issues of the current title (which have absolutely no bearing on the past games except that they're from the same studio, and are apart of the same series) where it just looks and absolutely is, utterly cringeworthy.
Base the game on its own merits. Not on the merits of the developer currently, or their latest game.
- 364
- Vancouver
- GUNSLINGER_R450
I am explaining that the premise was to have a large library of cars. 140 plus cars back then was a huge number of cars. Most racing games had a dozen or so. The premise was to build a large collection and as you have stated, they got back on that track with GT4 but then lost it again.
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FerrariF40
(Banned)
- 404
- Australia
GT7 can be frustrating:
I raced menu book Gr. 1 Suzuka today, then it started to rain, i go to box and FFS I CANT CHOSE RAIN TYRES. So i had to quit the race. Its an absolute JOKE that you have to buy every tyre for every car seperately. Massive downgrade compared to GT Sport.
Then on next race loading, game hung up. Then after the race i got the lowes roulette price of course - frustrating.
Music in GT Sport was way better imho
With dynamic weather, sunny track suddenly goes to dark/cloudy within 0,01 seconds sometimes, looks buggy.
Weather radar should be on track map! So i dont have to switch the HUD-MFD all the time
PD, please fix these issues !
I raced menu book Gr. 1 Suzuka today, then it started to rain, i go to box and FFS I CANT CHOSE RAIN TYRES. So i had to quit the race. Its an absolute JOKE that you have to buy every tyre for every car seperately. Massive downgrade compared to GT Sport.
Then on next race loading, game hung up. Then after the race i got the lowes roulette price of course - frustrating.
Music in GT Sport was way better imho
With dynamic weather, sunny track suddenly goes to dark/cloudy within 0,01 seconds sometimes, looks buggy.
Weather radar should be on track map! So i dont have to switch the HUD-MFD all the time
PD, please fix these issues !
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- 16,438
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
Also this ^. Noticing these days, the soundtracks on GT7 are already redundant ( i'm sick already of the two miserable soundtracks at the multiplayer section )
FerrariF40
(Banned)
- 404
- Australia
To much rock
- 1,526
- Indonesia
What are the real merits of those older games then? Fear and skepticism has already happened before GT7 got released, and while it's earned, a good amount of it was about the game being similar to the older ones due to recycled content or retaining GT's identity. Not even talking about keeping old contents that worked great or evolving and modernizing contents that aged poorly, which'd actually mean trying not to be nostalgic, but just being pissed off by the mere existence of older GT traits, and those who appreciate the merits older GTs had can be jumped on or being accused as living in the past and wanting GT7 to copy the older GT. Anything to purge any GT identity indiscriminately.
Seems as if any of the older GT has no merits from those worries, has nothing worth keeping, even when evolving it to modern standards, must remove anything, as if GT can only be good when it's not GT. I used to defend aspects of the franchise or design choices I find good or unique or have potential (fixing it instead of removing it), and I felt like I constantly had wrong or hot takes due to those worries, feeling as if those are only good due to my bias instead of being actually good (hence I asked real).
Seems as if any of the older GT has no merits from those worries, has nothing worth keeping, even when evolving it to modern standards, must remove anything, as if GT can only be good when it's not GT. I used to defend aspects of the franchise or design choices I find good or unique or have potential (fixing it instead of removing it), and I felt like I constantly had wrong or hot takes due to those worries, feeling as if those are only good due to my bias instead of being actually good (hence I asked real).
Directionless game that had everything half-assed. If I'm going to be generous it's a time trial game that has moving chicanes.
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