GT7 & PSVR2

[Jmitchell]

I suspect this is all about expectations.

I was similarly disappointed at the start, having read and watched reviews talking about the amazing visuals.

But I think that was a case of the reviewers having previous experience with other VR headsets, and whether they consciously realised it or not their expectations were understandably based on that background.

For example a couple of days ago I watched Linus Tech Tips real-time reaction/review of the PSVR2 and he was clearly really impressed by specific aspects of the headset (eg. the blacks of the OLEDs, the foveated rendering), and explicitly referenced other headsets when discussing these. I don’t think I’ve ever watched that channel before, but I know it has a massive subscriber base so no doubt it features the latest and greatest tech.

By contrast I had no VR background, the PS5 is my first console, it’s always been plugged in to my LG OLED TV. And judged against that the visuals don’t come close.

But once I got over that disappointment the overall experience has completely won me over. I did one back-to-back comparison playing on the TV, and I doubt I’ll ever play a driving sim on a flatscreen ever again (I certainly haven’t even considered firing up ACC or DR2 since I got my headset – it just seems silly now even contemplating it)


Disclaimer: I’ve only got one headset, so this is purely a guess. But I suspect that’s true of nearly everybody on this forum.

So the comments about the foveated rendering is what I find confusing. Like the “sweet spot” on these lenses is tiny. And everything around the edges of the lenses is blurry. I’m definitely not seeing anything become clearer unless I move my entire head. Are the billboards blurry for you? I wish I could find a video of what people are seeing through their headsets. It’s definitely a cool experience but i get distracted by how low quality the clarity is and I can’t enjoy myself.

Have you ever had your eyes tested?

I'm slightly short-sighted, and I can go without them for many activities but VR is borderline unusable without them, like a blurry mess. I never realised how sensitive VR would be to natural eyesight quality.

Granted, in VR it's not as crisp as flat mode but I think your experience sounds extreme.

Yeah, I have like 20-15 vision with my contacts. I will say though, that I was wondering whether or not my astigmatism might be causing issues, but I don’t really think that would affect anything because my contacts correct for that.

So I just hopped back into another race and when I look into the stands, I’m seeing double images of the spectators. Like two of the same dude standing right beside each other. Anybody know how to fix that? Could the lenses be out of alignment?

 

[DC5Remy]

So I just hopped back into another race and when I look into the stands, I’m seeing double images of the spectators. Like two of the same dude standing right beside each other. Anybody know how to fix that? Could the lenses be out of alignment?

While you are parked? Or when moving?

 

[Jmitchell]

While you are parked? Or when moving?

Both actually. It’s like the ghost image is super imposed over the other. Now when it’s on the 2d screen before it takes you into the car, I don’t see any double images.

 

[puffmoike]

So the comments about the foveated rendering is what I find confusing. Like the “sweet spot” on these lenses is tiny. And everything around the edges of the lenses is blurry. I’m definitely not seeing anything become clearer unless I move my entire head. Are the billboards blurry for you? I wish I could find a video of what people are seeing through their headsets. It’s definitely a cool experience but i get distracted by how low quality the clarity is and I can’t enjoy myself.


Yeah, I have like 20-15 vision with my contacts. I will say though, that I was wondering whether or not my astigmatism might be causing issues, but I don’t really think that would affect anything because my contacts correct for that.

So I just hopped back into another race and when I look into the stands, I’m seeing double images of the spectators. Like two of the same dude standing right beside each other. Anybody know how to fix that? Could the lenses be out of alignment?

I’m pretty sensitive to some aspects of image quality (graphic designer/ photographer) and I agree with you. I am definitely ’looking with my head’, not just my eyes.

I’m almost certain that’s because of chromatic aberration, which is naturally going to get progressively worse the further tour eye moves from the centre of the screens (the lenses having to bend the light more the further off-centre it is). At first that really disappointed me, but after a few weeks I just accept it’s part of the overall package (and know that I’m going to be incredibly excited about a future PS6 / PSVR3 combination).

Is the double image spectator issue when stationary or at speed?

 

[Jmitchell]

I’m pretty sensitive to some aspects of image quality (graphic designer/ photographer) and I agree with you. I am definitely ’looking with my head’, not just my eyes.

I’m almost certain that’s because of chromatic aberration, which is naturally going to get progressively worse the further tour eye moves from the centre of the screens (the lenses having to bend the light more the further off-centre it is). At first that really disappointed me, but after a few weeks I just accept it’s part of the overall package (and know that I’m going to be incredibly excited about a future PS6 / PSVR3 combination).

Is the double image spectator issue when stationary or at speed?

So I mentioned in a different post, but now that I think about it, it was in motion and while the game was paused. I guess I should probably stop the car in real time and see if I still see double.

 

[Aztro]

Personally I rather have the yaw happening outside than where my brain is tricked to think I’m sitting and should be relative to the rest of my body. If this was indeed a feature and the way to go to prevent motion sickness, we wouldn’t have a single flight game in VR, and for what I know there isn’t a single VR flight game that when you yaw the plane you roll inside the cabin.

But if that is indeed the case PD should sure at least give us the option like “comfort” and “normal” to change behaviors like that.

Flight games are much smoother I guess- it’s the little bumps and wobbles that give many people sickness. It’s odd how the brain reacts, but I find it much more comfortable driving around at high speed than bobbling along in a Kayak.

I’m not sure that translates to real life. When you’re on a banking the gravity feels centred and travelling with the direction of your spine due to centrifugal forces - bit like those rides at fin fairs where you stick to the sides and the floor falls away.

I say all this without the experience or knowledge of driving on the Daytona banking in real life

At high speeds you’re right of course, but my brain doesn’t necessarily know that (in a game you have a greater sense of which direction gravity should be than the vector of centripetal acceleration). In slow cars that tend to drop off the banking the sensation of gravity would win.

 

[05XR8]

Speaking on the double image, it’s why I asked previously about the motion blur. Some were saying the image quality improved, but I am still getting blur in VR replay. I’m not talking about at race speeds. Just walking pace.

I‘ve experimented by driving a car. Then, stopping at points along the track. When I watch the VR replay, I’m placed at points close to the car. I purposely moved the car slowly, rolling or gentle throttle after initially stopping the car, to see if I notice a difference in image quality. I still see the double image.

 

[klondike]

Today I played again with PSVR2. I had not been able to play the last two weeks since I had some surgery on my leg. But I am ok now.

In my opinion the graphics are much better now after the update, rather than it used to be.

 

[GlamFM]

Today I played again with PSVR2. I had not been able to play the last two weeks since I had some surgery on my leg. But I am ok now.

In my opinion the graphics are much better now after the update, rather than it used to be.

Yeah it was a night and day difference for me. So weird that Sony never said what the firmware update did and no one in the press picked up on it either.

 

[Bluedice]

PSVR2 is great! I only tried it a few days ago though, jet lag practically destroyed me from my trip to Japan lol.
However, i don't know if anyone has already said it before so excuse me if I bring this topic again, but is someone experiencing some paiin in the bridge of your nose when you have the headset on? It hurts me so baaaaaaaaaad...

Yes! The trick is to not push the headset too close to your eyes leaving most of the pressure on your forehead. I found out that for me wearing a glass really helps to ease the process to find the sweet spot.

I suspect this is all about expectations.

I was similarly disappointed at the start, having read and watched reviews talking about the amazing visuals.

But I think that was a case of the reviewers having previous experience with other VR headsets, and whether they consciously realised it or not their expectations were understandably based on that background.

For example a couple of days ago I watched Linus Tech Tips real-time reaction/review of the PSVR2 and he was clearly really impressed by specific aspects of the headset (eg. the blacks of the OLEDs, the foveated rendering), and explicitly referenced other headsets when discussing these. I don’t think I’ve ever watched that channel before, but I know it has a massive subscriber base so no doubt it features the latest and greatest tech.

By contrast I had no VR background, the PS5 is my first console, it’s always been plugged in to my LG OLED TV. And judged against that the visuals don’t come close.

But once I got over that disappointment the overall experience has completely won me over. I did one back-to-back comparison playing on the TV, and I doubt I’ll ever play a driving sim on a flatscreen ever again (I certainly haven’t even considered firing up ACC or DR2 since I got my headset – it just seems silly now even contemplating it)


Disclaimer: I’ve only got one headset, so this is purely a guess. But I suspect that’s true of nearly everybody on this forum.

I also have it plugged on a LG OLED but there is no turning back. It’s the only way to play GT7 for me from now on.

There's a motion rig thread here somewhere I saw where it was tried, but didn't work. As the motion kicks in it moves you around, so basically you end up looking at floor boards, the sky, etc. The PSVR2 reacts as if you are moving your head around. Not compatible at all.

EDIT: this thread https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-with-motion-rig.410728/page-20#post-13966154

Since it’s inside out tracking this would only work if the tracking area (markers) were moving with the rig. It’s probably possible to come up with a way to rig a “half dome” with tracking markers to the motion rig it self to make it work. It just can’t capture any of the environment that isn’t moving with the rig otherwise you’ll be in for a 🤢 ride.

 

[HadOne2Many]

Since it’s inside out tracking this would only work if the tracking area (markers) were moving with the rig. It’s probably possible to come up with a way to rig a “half dome” with tracking markers to the motion rig it self to make it work. It just can’t capture any of the environment that isn’t moving with the rig otherwise you’ll be in for a 🤢 ride.

Right, also would depend on how important internal gyroscopes are to the positioning. Even enclosed in a dome there might still be issues. If I were looking for a way to make it work I'd want to be able to offset the position displayed in the headset by the amount of travel from the motion rig, and that would require way more access than we have to the software and/or some way to intercept and modify the signals coming from the PSVR2. Seems unlikely that anyone will be able to do it, but who knows. There are some really smart people around here.

 

[Bluedice]

Right, also would depend on how important internal gyroscopes are to the positioning. Even enclosed in a dome there might still be issues. If I were looking for a way to make it work I'd want to be able to offset the position displayed in the headset by the amount of travel from the motion rig, and that would require way more access than we have to the software and/or some way to intercept and modify the signals coming from the PSVR2. Seems unlikely that anyone will be able to do it, but who knows. There are some really smart people around here.

Good point! You’re absolutely correct. I’ll do a test later to see what the headset resolves with the cameras covered. If they are using the info from the gyros to aid the tracking it won’t ever work on a motion rig.

I’ll do a test later on.

 

[regnar]

Having the players head move in VR would have been a nice touch, in certain cars seeing which direction your opponents looking at during side by side racing, especially in multiplayer could at to that immersion.

 

[HGHTCH]

Having the players head move in VR would have been a nice touch, in certain cars seeing which direction your opponents looking at during side by side racing, especially in multiplayer could at to that immersion.

would be cool but would add to the bandwidth requirements, maybe for gt8 when everyone is on PS5's or better

 

[Bluedice]

would be cool but would add to the bandwidth requirements, maybe for gt8 when everyone is on PS5's or better

By the time GT8 is released we will probably have the same problem but with some on the PS5 while others will be on the PS6.

I just hope that by then we get some 2022 cars 🤣

 

[HGHTCH]

By the time GT8 is released we will probably have the same problem but with some on the PS5 while others will be on the PS6.

I just hope that by then we get some 2022 cars 🤣

I'd bet $50 GT8 releases on or by 2026

 

[Jmitchell]

Speaking on the double image, it’s why I asked previously about the motion blur. Some were saying the image quality improved, but I am still getting blur in VR replay. I’m not talking about at race speeds. Just walking pace.

I‘ve experimented by driving a car. Then, stopping at points along the track. When I watch the VR replay, I’m placed at points close to the car. I purposely moved the car slowly, rolling or gentle throttle after initially stopping the car, to see if I notice a difference in image quality. I still see the double image.

What do you think is causing it? Is it the lenses or is it the game? If it’s the game, wouldn’t everyone be seeing the same thing? I read something about the game running at 60fps but then upconverting to 120fps, and because of that there are some ghosting issues.

 

[05XR8]

What do you think is causing it? Is it the lenses or is it the game? If it’s the game, wouldn’t everyone be seeing the same thing? I read something about the game running at 60fps but then upconverting to 120fps, and because of that there are some ghosting issues.

That’s why I was asking the question. Maybe I’m one of the unlucky ones?
I doubt my lenses are the problem. I see clearly during live play. Passing cars give me motion blur, but I expect that. I mean, I’m not blasting past cars. In replay, maybe as you pointed out, more power is being used to render. This may have been covered at the beginning of this thread. However, players are seeing improvements.

 

[puffmoike]

That’s why I was asking the question. Maybe I’m one of the unlucky ones?
I doubt my lenses are the problem. I see clearly during live play. Passing cars give me motion blur, but I expect that. I mean, I’m not blasting past cars. In replay, maybe as you pointed out, more power is being used to render. This may have been covered at the beginning of this thread. However, players are seeing improvements.

My complete guess is that it’s a reprojection issue caused by having a native 60Hz game shown at 120Hz. Objects that barely move relative to you (eg most things in front of you like other cars or the environment directly in front) won’t look ghosted, whereas objects that are moving rapidly relative to you (eg kerbs, fences, crowd, etc that you’re rushing past) will look ghosted.

 

[Bluedice]

My complete guess is that it’s a reprojection issue caused by having a native 60Hz game shown at 120Hz. Objects that barely move relative to you (eg most things in front of you like other cars or the environment directly in front) won’t look ghosted, whereas objects that are moving rapidly relative to you (eg kerbs, fences, crowd, etc that you’re rushing past) will look ghosted.

Haven’t tested it yet, but has anyone checked if changing the priority from Raytracing has any impact on that?

Changing the headset from 60hz to 120hz doesn’t seem to change much.

 

[Vitesh Patel]

I wonder if the extra horsepower of a PS5 Pro would help drive better visuals for PSVR2, so that the game can run natively at 120fps

 

[mixamun]

A PS5 Pro would be pretty sweet - i wish i could get a sample of 120 native to see how it improves the experience by just turning down more fidelity stuff. When driving by objects and looking out the side of the car its pretty jarring seeing the duplicated images lagging behind everything.

Also - I think ive got my VR legs decently established. I jumped into the nurb on my first drive and had to take the headset off within about 5-10 minutes. Today i think i played around in a free-drive lobby with a swapped delorean doing wheelies constantly and it was just hilarious joy for an hour+

The corners with big elevation changes are still tricky - i get that stomach drop feeling and its hard to drive through them but it doesnt linger.

 

[05XR8]

Well, I’m pretty much having the best racing game experiences with this VR thing. Simply incredible. We know the 2D doesn’t translate well, but goodness gracious! The thrill of bumper to bumper racing can Only be bettered by becoming a real life BTCC racer. Love this stuff.


Did a race at Goodwood. Decided to use the R5 Turbo. Smiling from ear to ear while looking at the dopeness, which is its interior. Again, for those on the fence about VR and even those still experiencing a bit of sickness, at least check out the quality of the interiors. It’s worth the price of admission.
PD seriously can’t be faulted for the amount of time they model these cars. For me, hasn’t really been an issue, but it certainly puts the issue to bed about their modelling rate. I say let them do their thing.

 

[Jmitchell]

My complete guess is that it’s a reprojection issue caused by having a native 60Hz game shown at 120Hz. Objects that barely move relative to you (eg most things in front of you like other cars or the environment directly in front) won’t look ghosted, whereas objects that are moving rapidly relative to you (eg kerbs, fences, crowd, etc that you’re rushing past) will look ghosted.

Do you think any noticeable improvements can be made via software updates? I know some people said they noticed some improvements after the last update, but I actually just got the game since that update so I can’t speak to that.

 

[Bluedice]

My complete guess is that it’s a reprojection issue caused by having a native 60Hz game shown at 120Hz. Objects that barely move relative to you (eg most things in front of you like other cars or the environment directly in front) won’t look ghosted, whereas objects that are moving rapidly relative to you (eg kerbs, fences, crowd, etc that you’re rushing past) will look ghosted.

For what I understood unless you explicitly change the PSVR2 settings to make use of 120hz output it will operate at the standard 60hz. But it seems to be a re-projection issue indeed and it happens in both instances. Mine is set to use the 120hz output for the headset instead of the TV and I still see the ghosting.

I’ve noticed a small improvement with the last update, but it’s probably just a figment of my imagination.

Do you think any noticeable improvements can be made via software updates? I know some people said they noticed some improvements after the last update, but I actually just got the game since that update so I can’t speak to that.

I believe they can, at least to a certain degree. At least that’s what I hope for.

But even with all its flaws it became impossible for me to play GT7 any other way. VR changes everything.

On GT Sport with the PSVR1 it felt kinda gimmicky and unusable due to the more than acceptable drop in quality. But on GT7 with PSVR2 it’s a completely different and better game. Can wait to see what GT8 and PSVR3 bring to the table.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I tried GT7 without VR for the first time since I got it and all my ability to see the corner properly had disappeared. I started to get a hang of it on lap 2 where I set the same lap time as with VR.

 

[DC5Remy]

For what I understood unless you explicitly change the PSVR2 settings to make use of 120hz output it will operate at the standard 60hz. But it seems to be a re-projection issue indeed and it happens in both instances. Mine is set to use the 120hz output for the headset instead of the TV and I still see the ghosting.

I’ve noticed a small improvement with the last update, but it’s probably just a figment of my imagination.


I believe they can, at least to a certain degree. At least that’s what I hope for.

But even with all its flaws it became impossible for me to play GT7 any other way. VR changes everything.

On GT Sport with the PSVR1 it felt kinda gimmicky and unusable due to the more than acceptable drop in quality. But on GT7 with PSVR2 it’s a completely different and better game. Can wait to see what GT8 and PSVR3 bring to the table.

That 120 only applies to theater mode. Otherwise it’s alway in 120 when gaming.

 

[Bluedice]

I tried GT7 without VR for the first time since I got it and all my ability to see the corner properly had disappeared. I started to get a hang of it on lap 2 where I set the same lap time as with VR.

I can’t see my self playing GT7 without VR.

That 120 only applies to theater mode. Otherwise it’s alway in 120 when gaming.

Sweet! Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[05XR8]

I tried GT7 without VR for the first time since I got it and all my ability to see the corner properly had disappeared. I started to get a hang of it on lap 2 where I set the same lap time as with VR.

Definitely this. I was initially sloppy without the headset. Switched to hood cam and felt I was just going through the motions. It’s two different games, in my opinion.

 

[Slammer0909]

For the best immersion im I would like to set all hud information to off.
My question is, is there a list or overview which Gr3 Car provides which readable information on its steering wheel?
I think in offline races you come along without the HUD.
Thx and best regards.