GTP Cool Wall: 1992-1995 Autozam AZ-1

[INEEDNAWZZZ]

*sigh* More debates about 'machoness', V8s in something that doesn't need it, pick up truck analogies and just general ignorance. Business as usual here.

The thing I find most funny is that all of this is being said and done on a fan site for Gran Turismo; a game which practically idolises these little cars and other ones like it over big, flashy 'VEE ATE MOTERS'. I'm at odds as to how members advance through the game, knowing that *gasp* you have to use a Kei car for some events and not a muscle car of some sort (until later, anyway).

Just seems to me that it's a pretty safe bet that a cutesy little car like this, a Miata, a 500, and so forth will end up deep into "cool" territory, whereas something like a Camaro, a Charger, a Mustang, etc. will have its rating dinged by a litany of complaints from the people I'm talking about. It's too aggressive, too obvious, to midlife crisis, too hidden in garages by old rich white men. Though silent voters might keep them from taking the results too low in those cases. Yes, they may occasionally give surprise verdicts or disagree among each other, but the "GTP core group" does seem to agree with itself more often than not, in matters of both politics and cars.

No, we vote muscle cars as uncool for being too chintzy, too brash, too in-your-face. The more collectible ones are hidden away in garages, and that's not cool because its not being used as intended. I don't get what's so difficult about that to understand.

I never said engine size was the sole measure of a car's coolness. I just think too little engine size is bad, and more is, for the most part, good. It's just one contributing factor to whether the car is actually cool or not.

These people seem to be voting from what I'd call "fashion district car culture", within which appearing cultured is more important than appearing strong or fast.

Not every car has to appear 'strong' or 'fast'. Hell, I find a car that looks sort of gawky and odd to be infinitely more cool than some exotics, but that's just my opinion.

Your views on engine size tick everyone off because unlike someone like Slash, who's been around V8s and stuff like that for most of his life (and therefore can understand some of his reasoning), the only thing you have to fall back on and refer to for experience is a V6 J-body - hardly the pinnacle of automotive engineering or performance. You seem to be stuck in this delusion of 'V8 OR NOTHING', made all the more jarring by the fact you've never probably experienced it.

Sorry, but yes. I've thought before that perhaps some people on this forum might actually be a little jaded, or perhaps they opened their mind too wide and let a bunch of BS in. Either way, yes, I do think there is a lot of snobbery here - people being so cultured that they can no longer think "loud, fast, good-looking, cool". Instead they have to, yes, look down their noses at simpler ways of going fast, such as the muscle car.

Or rather, you've not let the BS out. I like a loud, fast, good-looking, 'cool' (from an objective point of view) car as much as the next guy. Doesn't mean I wouldn't look like a colossal anus in it though. And for that reason, its uncool. Something like a classic Mini or whatever is (by your standards, presumably) none of those things. However, its cuteness and iconic status around the globe attracts people's interests, even if they know nothing about cars. It had bags of character. It looks good and it makes the driver look good too. And it has motorsport pedigree. And that makes it cool.

We aren't snobs at all. It's just we can appreciate what would be seen as giving off a good image in the real world and not what a TV show or movie wants us to think its cool.

Also, define 'fast'. Muscles cars aren't inherently fast in terms of top speed, and classics ones weren't all that quick down the drags either. And - sorry to shatter your illusions here - unlike what you think, not every muscle car driver back in the 60s and 70s tinkered with their car and made it push 500 BHP. Most just bought it because it looked cool and gas was cheap at the time. Notice I said at the time; and times change.

A few, more than I'm willing to bother typing out right now actually. It's just that precious few of them are on sale right now.

Please do.

 

[Roger the Horse]

Then that's part of a much larger persecution complex - anyone who disagrees with you is automatically placed in a higher social standing in your mind, which gives them power that they're using to keep you down...

You need genuine psychiatric help.You're simplifying and getting it wrong.

Seriously, @White & Nerdy, whenever someone says that you need psychiatric help, they're only showing concern for you. Seek it. It's called help for a reason.

 

[Moglet]

Perhaps, even now 5 years after registering, there could be some culture shock at work. When I think of "car guys" I think mainly of people racing around in loud 300+ HP hot rods and muscle cars. To see alleged car enthusiasts put down muscle cars and fawn over stupid little barely-cars like this, I guess just seems completely unbelieveable, moreso the former than the latter.

It could just be down to growing up in different cultures, in the UK being 'a car guy' has meant driving something interesting (especially classics) as opposed to something fast (although a lot of them ARE fast). There are a lot more small cars with small engines (compared to those in the USA) over here and so manufacturers spend a lot more time making them good to drive. You have to consider the fact that we get lots more small cars that have comparable/better performance than big, wallowy muscle cars and they work much better on our teeny tiny roads. Generally driving a big car with a big engine in the UK doesn't make sense as you can get something smaller, more efficient and just as fun to drive instead, so by having a huge engine you come across as a bit of a show-off which isn't considered cool

The reason so many car lovers (even in the US) like tiny cars with small engines is that they are brilliant fun. You can floor it everywhere and feel like an absolute maniac while chucking it into corners knowing that you're not very likely to lose control or break the speed limits too easily. Just lately I've been driving my fiance's Kia Picanto. It's got a gutless 1.2l engine, it's a 4 speed automatic and the steering feel leaves a lot to be desired but you can put your foot to the floor and point it at a corner and it'll attack it like a rabid little dog on steroids. It leaves me with a huge grin on my face and I've never felt like it needed more power. It's all about the driving experience. That doesn't make it automatically cool, but I'm just trying to explain why a small car shouldn't be disregarded immediately.

Personally I'm a huge fan of big muscle cars with big, lazy engines. I really want my next car to be a V8 of some sort just for the sound.

 

[Zenith]

When I think of "car guys" I think mainly of people racing around in loud 300+ HP hot rods and muscle cars. To see alleged car enthusiasts put down muscle cars and fawn over stupid little barely-cars like this, I guess just seems completely unbelieveable, moreso the former than the latter.

Hey I do that! I would stop my day to fawn over the Autozam polled here. Why? Because I like cars. I think you'll find that most of the dudes driving around in fast cars care less about being a manly man and more about appreciating cars. I've personally come to resent the assumptions people make about my taste in cars because of the experiences they've had with people who won't shut up about how much they hate hybrids and multiple cams on an engine.

Is liking cars even about liking cars, or is it about working your way into a social clique?

It should also be noted that the GTP illuminati doesn't put down muscle cars and hot rods on the cool wall, they put down muscle car and hot rod drivers and fans.

When the usual suspects immediately rush in to tell everyone how the Boss Yenko 420ci Blaze Edition is actually the coolest thing ever because THE CUUUUBES, they're hurting their own case.

 

[Cano]

Boss Yenko 420ci Blaze Edition

one day I'll buy you a beer. Promise.

 

[Wiegert]

Seriously, @White & Nerdy, whenever someone says that you need psychiatric help, they're only showing concern for you. Seek it. It's called help for a reason.

Something along the lines of "Manly men don't seek help." crosses ones mind when referring to a certain someone's mindset. Which might explain why he's still the way he is.

Ignoring psychological issues and sound advice like that does not make you any more of a man, I'm afraid.

 

[Liquid]

Did W&N just claim, at 19 years of age, that he knows better?

I think I'm dying. Of laughter.

 

[Famine]

Boss Yenko 420ci Blaze Edition

Should I ever be in a position to take control of a "synthetic female stimulation device" concern, I'm going to give ALL of the products the names of special edition muscle cars.

 

[Liquid]

Should I ever be in a position to take control of a "synthetic female stimulation device" concern, I'm going to give ALL of the products the names of special edition muscle cars.

To be fair, The Gran Torino or The Challenger would sound pretty funny as it is, but the special editions do take the cake.

 

[Cano]

To be fair, The Gran Torino or The Challenger would sound pretty funny as it is, but the special editions do take the cake.

Ppffft. Rebel Machine, doe

 

[Grayfox]

I fell in love with this car in GT6


Sounds like a dustbuster it does

 

[INEEDNAWZZZ]

To be fair, The Gran Torino or The Challenger would sound pretty funny as it is, but the special editions do take the cake.

Plymouth 'Cuda Super Commando Six Pak. 'Nuff said.

 

[JMoney]

And things like minivans and Toyota Camrys have better power-to-weight ratios and go faster around a racetrack than cars that practically define the term. Is the original Porsche 911 no longer a sportscar because a Lexus RX hybrid would make it up a freeway onramp first? A V6 Camry is faster than some V12 Ferraris. That's a V with the number 12 after it.

I'm not comparing classic supercars to modern family sedans. The AZ-1 and my truck are only a few years apart.

*sigh* More debates about 'machoness', V8s in something that doesn't need it, pick up truck analogies and just general ignorance. Business as usual here.

Not one person here has made an argument in favor of V8's or "machoness", and I've heard your side claim that probably half a dozen times. If you wish to debate, do so AFTER you read our posts, and stop assuming complete BS.

 

[niky]

The factors themselves. As I said, they seem to vary between cars, but the factors used seem to boil down to "how well would it fit in in an upscale shopping district?"

Obviously we hate American iron with V8 engines and manly ladder frames, right?

Which is why we didn't vote this subzero:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...rown-victoria-police-interceptor-vote.115179/

Note who voted cool or sub-zero... Azuremen, homeforsummer, Tornado... if I'd been on at the time this was posted, I'd have given it a subzero myself. I love me some Panther cars.

-

The difference between them and you? They don't vote arbitrarily based on displacement, hp/liter, curb weight or some other such useless metric. They simiply vote based on what they like.

You don't have to like the AZ-1. Nobody would argue with you if you simply put it down as seriously uncool because you think it's ugly. The moment you start preaching about how it contravenes good old American values and the like, then you'll have a debate on your hands. One which you will lose, time and time and time again.

-

Also, men hooning around in 300+ hp cars? Again (and I've told this story before), last time I was surrounded by guys who owned 400-600 hp sports cars, we were all standing, in unison, fawning over a tiny old (ugly) BMW that had just 160 horsepower. A 2002tiit. Ugly little car. Stupid name. Cool as all get out.

 

[Furinkazen]

I'm not comparing classic supercars to modern family sedans.

The AZ-1 and my truck are only a few years apart.

But you are fine comparing a Kei car to a SUV Truck.

 

[INEEDNAWZZZ]

Not one person here has made an argument in favor of V8's or "machoness", and I've heard your side claim that probably half a dozen times. If you wish to debate, do so AFTER you read our posts, and stop assuming complete BS.

Why? All you've preached in this thread is 'my truck has more power', 'my truck isn't even a V8' (implying that is the be all, end all for having power), 'my trucks probably more sporty' than this.

Also, who necessarily said that my post was all about you? I'm on about W&N who - yet again - cannot comprehend why we think little cars are cool and that muscle cars aren't and that we're all part of some 'coffee shop culture' or something ridiculous like that.

 

[Harry6784]

How you voted doesn't mean much with 3 sports cars when the argument that followed in the S2000 thread that you started because you assumed someone said the car was good in a straight line.

In the S2000 thread I stated that that it was fun do drive but don't confuse fun with fast. Well that set a fire under everyone's ass and I spend the next 5 pages factually explaining why the S2000 wasn't fast.

Reread the Prius thread.

In the Prius thread I stated that just because a car is important does not mean it's cool.

Both perfectly reasonable justifications to vote cool and seriously uncool. Had someone else said these I highly doubt you would have taken such offense to them. But just because I happen to own what you consider to be a "V8 Redneckmobile" you lump me together with everyone else and apply the same stereotypes; 'Ohh car has V8, me like, me vote cool..."

Your general attitude is the same through both; little engines & EVs aren't cool because no horsepower like a manly LS.

Neither does W&N, but his reasoning as far fetched & hilarious as it is, still retains an argument behind it.

"Little engines & EV's" aren't cool not because no horsepower but because they aren't fun to drive. I actually love the idea of using hybrid technology to improve a car's performance.

And yet again for the umpteenth time you bring up my personal car even though I never brought it up in discussion. It's almost predictable now. We can be discussing the World Cup and you'll still find a way to involve my personal car in your argument

 

[JMoney]

Why? All you've preached in this thread is 'my truck has more power', 'my truck isn't even a V8' (implying that is the be all, end all for having power), 'my trucks probably more sporty' than this.

I'm not saying more powerful cars are always best. I think the Veyron is a joke and I like Lotuses. I'd rather have the V6 in my truck than either of the V8 options because the V6 weighs less and sounds better.

 

[homeforsummer]

Note who voted cool or sub-zero... Azuremen, homeforsummer, Tornado...

Holy crap I voted the P71 sub-zero

Not sure I'd go quite that far today but it's still a very cool car. Who hasn't wanted to pretend they're a cop sliding around a city full of skyscrapers in some American movie or other? Or scare the crap out of anyone you're following on the freeway?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Did W&N just claim, at 19 years of age, that he knows better?

I think I'm dying. Of laughter.

Clearly he was a far more advanced 19 year old then the rest of us, you just don't get it man! His realm of logic is like 2 dimensions above the rest of us, you can't even get on his level, that's why us (the collective) are keeping him down.

 

[Famine]

"Little engines & EV's" aren't cool not because no horsepower but because they aren't fun to drive.

Really, what you mean there is "little engined and EV cars that aren't fun to drive aren't cool because they aren't fun to drive". The size of engine and even the source of motive power is not intrinsically linked to how fun a car is to drive. @homeforsummer and I went round the Millbrook Alpine Handling Circuit in a Rolls Royce Wraith. Tremendous, prodiguous power from a massive V12 but I'd have more fun in a 1.8 MX-5.

Meanwhile, the guys who are rating the Tesla Roadster as great fun to drive are, I'm sure, not talking out of their arses just for the sheer hell of it.

 

[Harry6784]

Really, what you mean there is "little engined and EV cars that aren't fun to drive aren't cool because they aren't fun to drive". The size of engine and even the source of motive power is not intrinsically linked to how fun a car is to drive. @homeforsummer and I went round the Millbrook Alpine Handling Circuit in a Rolls Royce Wraith. Tremendous, prodiguous power from a massive V12 but I'd have more fun in a 1.8 MX-5.

Meanwhile, the guys who are rating the Tesla Roadster as great fun to drive are, I'm sure, not talking out of their arses just for the sheer hell of it.

Exactly, you need to go to a racetrack for those cars to be fun to drive. I prefer cars that are fun at the track and while going to work. If you prefer the 1.8 that's completely fine. Different people, different locations, different definitions of cool. Nothing wrong with that.

Oh and by the way, if the Tesla Roadster came up for polling, I'd vote it Cool if not SZ.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Exactly, you need to go to a racetrack for those cars to be fun to drive. I prefer cars that are fun at the track and while going to work. If you prefer the 1.8 that's completely fine. Different people, different locations, different definitions of cool. Nothing wrong with that.

Oh and by the way, if the Tesla Roadster came up for polling, I'd vote it Cool if not SZ.

That's not what he's saying...

Also though I find your voting sometimes as difficult to follow as the others in this group, I will say they're not as bad. Why you get lumped in with others is probably based on the fact more so that you have said V8 > most other cars but not as strongly, or due to the fact that you tend to agree with Jmoney and Mustang and W&N on a regular basis (thus giving the notion that you applaud that thinking), if not also defending them.

So while I think you're trying to save face and go back to your method of support (we can all see who you like by the way) rather than make posts as you did in the past, we can still tell. No you don't bring your car up nearly as much as Jmoney or W&N or the fantasy rides in Mustang's head. However, neither does Slash who use to bring up the Fords he drove that his dad owned as a measuring piece but doesn't do it anymore, yet we still know what his views clearly are.

 

[Tornado]

Theory:

In a way, everyone voting on the cool wall is doing so with impressive consistency.

It's just that there is one group voting on whether a car is actually cool or not, and another group is voting on whether they like a car based on its engine size. There's a little leeway here and there for some members, but that's to be expected

To whit: When someone decides that they want to vote against the former group's rough "consensus" and that they want present themselves as being so edgy for doing so (the XKSS thread had a couple standout examples), that person is... almost always just ignored. So it's rather blatantly not just "gang up on the guy with a different opinion".

 

[Famine]

Exactly, you need to go to a racetrack for those cars to be fun to drive.

I'm not sure you could get a Rolls Royce Wraith to be fun to drive if you had your own private planet.

However, if I was doing lots of motorway miles I'd have a lot less fun in my 1.8 MX-5 - and I've got 400 miles to do in it tomorrow. But they make up for it by being much more fun on the bits that aren't motorways where I spend most of my driving times.

The same probably applies to the AZ-1 and Beat.

 

[homeforsummer]

Exactly, you need to go to a racetrack for those cars to be fun to drive.

For which cars? Miatas? I suspect I'd have more fun on road and track in a Miata than a R-R Wraith, irrespective of engine size. If my commute involved say, central London traffic, I'd probably have more fun in the AZ-1 than either of them, since I could use more of the AZ-1's potential than I could a sports car with twice the power or an absolutely enormous luxury car with six times the power.

If you lived near a bunch of completely empty, completely straight roads, then a big, fast car would be ideal. But if you live anywhere near any twisty roads and you fail to have fun in a back-to-basics sports car like a Miata, I'd suggest the problem isn't the car but the driver.

 

[Tornado]

"I resent being labeled as part of that group that I repeatedly come to the defense of"

*proceeds to perpetuate stereotypical arguments of said group*

 

[Luminis]

Wow, these threads really do spin out of control as something with a small engine is getting high votes, it seems

My take? The AZ-1 is rare, at least here in Germany. Far rarer than, say, a muscle car or some Ferrari. There's that. The AZ-1 isn't a car a lot of people even know about. Should I ever come across someone who owns one, I'd know instantly that he really cares about the car itself and doesn't drive what he drives because someone instilled the idea to do so in him. I mean, I probably wouldn't drive an AZ-1 (can't imagine I'd fit very well in there), but its driver is at least not the kind of person who saw the Dukes of Hazard as a kid and got himself a Charger because of that. It's not a car that's driven because of its popularity, or because its flashy. Not something I'd rate sub zero, but still cool, in its own right.

Also, on the engine size debate: Might matter if you've got nothing but an endless stretch of straight highway to enjoy your car on. Tight and twisty roads are more fun in something light and agile than in something slow and powerful. Even my lowly little Nissan Micra/March I used to own was more fun around these kinds of roads than the infinitely more powerful Lexus IS my dad's wife used to own. I like cars that are about having fun instead of having big power, you know.

Meh, giving default ratings because of a cars displacement is just as stupid as judging a car by its country of origin. Automotive racism, that's what it is

 

[Turtle]

It's a Mitsuoka. I'd love to know what those guys are smoking.

I saw the Mitsuoka part of the photo name. Googling it just turned up a result of a bunch of ugly microcars. Judging that design, it was probably something like salvia, mixed with some stuff they found under a rug.

I would never say no to a test drive, but beautiful, those cars are not.

The Mitsuoka K2 is a clone of the Messerchmitt Tiger. I'd rather drive the Tiger...

I only recently found that the SV-1 was supposed to be a "safety car". I thought it was just a sports car with an ugly bumper that didn't really help at all. Who thought putting a massive V8 in a car supposed to be safe was a good idea?

Didn't know that car had the name 'Tiger'. Interesting car, but apparently you could get a Frogeye for about the same price. That would explain why the Tiger didn't sell too well.

 

[Harry6784]

That's not what he's saying...

Also though I find your voting sometimes as difficult to follow as the others in this group, I will say they're not as bad. Why you get lumped in with others is probably based on the fact more so that you have said V8 > most other cars but not as strongly, or due to the fact that you tend to agree with Jmoney and Mustang and W&N on a regular basis (thus giving the notion that you applaud that thinking), if not also defending them.

The fact that you can't easily follow my voting is a good thing. That's because I don't vote based solely on displacement, power or against whatever W&N happens to think. There are high displacement, powerful cars that I think are uncool and small displacement low powered cars that are cool. My criteria, not in this particular order, are looks, power, weight, name, variations and rarity.

Also I tend to agree with Jmoney, Mustang and W&N in the same way that I agree with anyone else based in their viewpoints. While not as common there are times that I agree with points made by you, Famine and even Zenith.

I'm not sure you could get a Rolls Royce Wraith to be fun to drive if you had your own private planet.

However, if I was doing lots of motorway miles I'd have a lot less fun in my 1.8 MX-5 - and I've got 400 miles to do in it tomorrow. But they make up for it by being much more fun on the bits that aren't motorways where I spend most of my driving times.

The same probably applies to the AZ-1 and Beat.

For which cars? Miatas? I suspect I'd have more fun on road and track in a Miata than a R-R Wraith, irrespective of engine size. If my commute involved say, central London traffic, I'd probably have more fun in the AZ-1 than either of them, since I could use more of the AZ-1's potential than I could a sports car with twice the power or an absolutely enormous luxury car with six times the power.

If you lived near a bunch of completely empty, completely straight roads, then a big, fast car would be ideal. But if you live anywhere near any twisty roads and you fail to have fun in a back-to-basics sports car like a Miata, I'd suggest the problem isn't the car but the driver.

And around here there is nothing but mostly straight motorways with stoplights every 500 yards. I prefer powerful cars because where I live they are tailored to make my commute as enjoyable as possible. If I were living in the mountains with switchback roads everywhere I probably would have gotten a more nimble car.


Suddenly it seems like my preference for V8's isn't due to my excessively red neck...