GTP NASCAR SPRINT CUP S3 Champs: RFLX_Niop, Joe Gibbs Racing, Toyota

[Carbonox]

Honestly, having watched the replay, I see absolutely nothing correct about Litchi's driving on laps 96 and 97. Not only did he swerve from the higher line to the lower a few times, but generally was in the way after that. If you don't want to be bump drafted, you GTFO from the line, mate...

 

[Litchi]

What could be the penalty for me since i can't have any point in sprint cup?

 

[DrifterJoe]

Ok, I don't have the replay so I'll only go over what I saw, which was the one with Furi and Knelly, and what I think we should do from now on for incidents that are reported etc.

A lap or so before the incident knelly told Furi that if he kept going up the track in turns, he'd move under him because he's leaving a large gap. When Knelly went under Furi, he was there for 2-3 seconds before Furi moved back down and they wrecked. When Knelly went under Furi I did exclaim something over my mic (something like "there he goes! He said he'd do it Furi!") which should have let them know they were now 2 wide. After they wrecked Furi said that he thought he was clear when he moved down.

That's everything I can recall about that incident. If I had the replay I'd look at all the incidents, which brings me onto this...

We should get the team owners to be stewards in the future (from the next race onwards), with them all saving the replay. Drivers report incidents to Drop, who then has the owners look over them to see if a penalty is necessary, and an owner can't look over their own incident due to bias. The other owners would look over the incident as normal. (This is like what we do in IndyCar)

EDIT: I can't pass judgement on any of the incidents without having seen the replay for myself.

 

[Chqr]

We should get the team owners to be stewards in the future (from the next race onwards), with them all saving the replay. Drivers report incidents to Drop, who then has the owners look over them to see if a penalty is necessary, and an owner can't look over their own incident due to bias. The other owners would look over the incident as normal. (This is like what we do in IndyCar)

I like the idea of a collobarative discussion too. Nationwide worked well with consultation with team owners.

 

[cgr-10]

Agree with Joe's solution. Works fine in IndyCar.

 

[MustangRyan]

We should get the team owners to be stewards in the future (from the next race onwards), with them all saving the replay. Drivers report incidents to Drop, who then has the owners look over them to see if a penalty is necessary, and an owner can't look over their own incident due to bias. The other owners would look over the incident as normal. (This is like what we do in IndyCar)

I like the idea of a collobarative discussion too. Nationwide worked well with consultation with team owners.

To be fair, I tried to consult with the team owners, but:

RFLX didn't have the replay because he lost power before the race started.
Nater was out of town.
Carb didn't reply to my PM.
Joe didn't save the replay.
Mule saved the replay, and passed on his opinions on incidents where requested.

I have asked that all drivers, especially team owners, save the race replays, just in case situations like these arise.

 

[Carbonox]

I don't usually have the time to check incidents except in my own series (which are currently nonexistant) but if you want to hear my verdicts here and now, here goes:

My wreck: Bleh, things happen I guess. Still pissed about it, but not gonna blame any individual about it.

Furi/Knelly: Furi's fault for being so careless. Not the first time I've seen him cause a wreck on ovals, mind you.

Litchi/Knelly: As mentioned above, Litchi's fault because of his lack of knowledge about proper oval etiquette.

Mule/Knelly: Both seemed to have a brainfart, ignoring the thick yellow line completely on pit exit. Mule's wreck was his own fault, but seriously, Knelly could've easily avoided everything by just following the proper pit exit line, and he'd have been fine (though I was coming pretty fast from behind at the time, and dodged Mule at the same point where Knelly had been just a fraction of a second ago - however, I'd have gone slower if there was a car directly on my line).

Knelly/Matty: Knelly's fault because his suspension damage was already gone before he made the swerving move, so it should be pretty clear.

 

[Furinkazen]

Right looking at the replay, coming into 3 I backed right off, as I knew that occasional lag bumps could wreck ALL of us (my huge run later ~cough~). Also Chqr had backed off Knelly's bumper. Then I floated up the track and corrected coming down, cutting in front of him. Now when I got loose again, I straightened it. Knelly was getting a run, and drove into my quarter panel spinning me. Now i'm 100% sure it was NOT intentional, but why not back off a touch, especially when he had a 2 and a half car length gap to Chqr, rather than go up the inside at this stage? If Knelly had backed off, Chqr would have given him a bump and we would have all been together. I've already apologised here and via PM, but we all make mistakes. I got loose, I corrected it, Knelly drove in at the wrong time, and bang we spun.

 

[Chqr]

I had no intention of pushing drivers in corners especially Chasers. I've learnt a lot from doing that and wrecking my own teammates in Nationwide because of misjudged bumps.

In a way, it may of helped if I pushed Knelly in that incident as we may have cleared you. I apologise for that.

 

[Furinkazen]

I had no intention of pushing drivers in corners especially Chasers. I've learnt a lot from doing that and wrecking my own teammates in Nationwide because of misjudged bumps.

In a way, it may of helped if I pushed Knelly in that incident as we may have cleared you. I apologise for that.

I was talking about after the corner. Knelly backs off a little, I regain draft, you push Knelly out of 4, we're all safe.

 

[Matty]

Carb, for your wreck what happened was, I was getting a run through the turn and let off, momentum carried me into joe who was inches off ???'s bumper. Then a chain reaction sent all four of us loose me and joe caught it first time to continue and don't know what happened next.

Completely unintentional as joe was the next car ahead of me, but if penalty is needed so be it.

 

[MustangRyan]

Carb, for your wreck what happened was, I was getting a run through the turn and let off, momentum carried me into joe who was inches off ???'s bumper. Then a chain reaction sent all four of us loose me and joe caught it first time to continue and don't know what happened next.

Completely unintentional as joe was the next car ahead of me, but if penalty is needed so be it.

As best I could tell, Carb went high to avoid the potential spin of Joe happening in front of him in the low line. When Carb drifted high, he got into Matty. Matty's car got loose, and when he straightened it up, it pushed Carb back down the track, where he hit the apron and spun out in the grass. It was truly a racing incident, where no one was at fault.

 

[Matty]

If anyone was to be blamed though it would be me because I accidentally got into the back off Joe which caused the reaction. Just want that to be said. 👍

 

[MustangRyan]

Now i'm 100% sure it was NOT intentional, but why not back off a touch, rather than go up the inside at this stage?...
...I got loose, I corrected it, Knelly drove in at the wrong time, and bang we spun.

I agree, and I'll elaborate more below.

Furi/Knelly: Furi's fault for being so careless. Not the first time I've seen him cause a wreck on ovals, mind you.

Litchi/Knelly: As mentioned above, Litchi's fault because of his lack of knowledge about proper oval etiquette.

In both of these accidents, the leading driver started the turn already established in the lower lane and was doing his best to try to hold his line (we all know DS3 drivers can't hold the lower line as easily as drivers on a wheel can).

It wasn't as if the trailing car had previously established inside position before entering the corner and got clipped by the outside car coming down on top of them. In that scenario, it would be 100% the fault of the outside driver for coming down on another driver already on their inside in the corner's entry.

This also wasn't a case where a car got accordion-bumped and shoved way up out of line, leaving them no chance to get back down in their previous place in line. This usually happens more on straightaways, as it's very difficult to four-bump in corners.

In both of these specific cases, Knelly tried to push his nose in under another car the moment they slipped up in the middle of the corner, where lane-holding stability is greatly decreased. In the first case, Furi came right back down to where he was, causing both cars to spin out. In the second case, Knelly's car hit the apron, which caused Knelly to push up into Litchi. I think that accident is 40% Litchi's fault, at most, since Knelly hit the apron and went up to hit Litchi, and it was not a case of just Litchi driving back down on Knelly. Since it was just the two of them around when this accident happened, it would have been much safer to simply draft by Litchi on the next straightaway.

Had Knelly slowed down just a little and been more patient, both wrecks could have been easily avoided. The bottom line is that the middle of the corner isn't the place to try to drive under a car that is attempting to stay in the bottom lane. It's just not safe to do that.

 

[RedPartyhat]

Is there any change in schedule for Twin Motegi?

 

[Müle]

I don't think there is, but I wouldn't mind replacing SSRX for it.

Can't see it happening, though.

 

[Carbonox]

I've been recently wondering, could bump drafting be banned in SC? I'm just thinking that oval racing is boring as it is, mostly people are just occupying the low line and bumping each other, with barely any position changes unless someone makes an error. Without bump drafting, both lines would be used actively and it would generally be more fun to race this way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deI_Dv6KiWU

 

[Müle]

We're discussing banning bumpvdrafting for Nationwide, but just for Indy and possibly Motegi. I can't see it ever being banned at Daytona.

 

[cgr-10]

Completely? I can't comment since I haven't tried it but it would be a whole different ball game. I think bump drafting suits the Cup but I might ban it in the series i'm running out of the NASCAR Motegi test specs on this Sunday night.

 

[nate11x]

We're discussing banning bumpvdrafting for Nationwide, but just for Indy and possibly Motegi. I can't see it ever being banned at Daytona.

Here's the problem at indy. If you don't allow bumpdrafting it will be a 1 lane track because you can't pass on the outside without some sort of bump? Just a thought.

 

[MustangRyan]

Bumpdrafting is a part of the race at Daytona and SSRX. We all need to make sure we are doing it safely and respectfully though. As long as we are all patient, and give each other a little more room and respect, we should all be able to get through most races without lots of incidents. Some minor incidents are bound to occur from time-to-time, but a lot of these would not happen with just a little more patience.

I'm considering doing away with bumping at Indy (even if only in the corners), as some drivers have voiced their opinions about it lowering the quality of the race for that particular track.

I don't think bumping will be too big of a deal at Motegi, as you can't push in to turn 3. The trailing car has to let off a little sooner, or risk causing a wreck if they push the lead car too far into the corner. With weak slipstream, it takes a while for the trailing car to catch back up coming out of turn 4.

Here's the problem at indy. If you don't allow bumpdrafting it will be a 1 lane track because you can't pass on the outside without some sort of bump? Just a thought.

If the car in front of you isn't being pushed, you might be able to make an outside pass coming out of a turn. If nothing else, you can definitely slingshot past him on the next straightaway (inside or out), since the leader, as the only car without a lead draft, will always be the slowest car on the track.

 

[Müle]

Random question:

If I hosted a spot race after this season is over, 200 laps of Motegi, full-power Nascars, would you guys be interested?

 

[MustangRyan]

Random question:

If I hosted a spot race after this season is over, 200 laps of Motegi, full-power Nascars, would you guys be interested?

Duh.


Also, I'm hoping to hold a 502hp test race during our off-season, so everyone can have an on-track test race to gather information and experience before the season starts. Our first points race at Motegi Oval is the 300 miler, so I'm sure most will want to get a good test on track with a lot of cars before then.

 

[cgr-10]

Damn, will probably miss both as I'm on holiday for a fortnight post season.

 

[Müle]

(or we can replace SSRX in this season's chase with a Motegi race )

 

[Carbonox]

Oh and by the way, if I make the remainder of this season's races (I actually think 300 miles is a doable distance, 400 is already overkill though) will I still be eligible for Rookie of the Year next season if I join Sprint Cup full-time, seeing as how I'm only a Nationwide driver?

 

[MustangRyan]

(or we can replace SSRX in this season's chase with a Motegi race )

The currently scheduled Chase races are going to be run at the same tracks and at the same distances as planned and previously announced.

 

[Knelly]

So what's happening here, other than having my comments avoided, and finding further ways in comments to try and pass the blame onto me, making the two spins out to be my fault.

I will be providing further evidence as soon as I can figure out how to get pics on here.

Will my penalty be recinded or will others be penalised appropriately?

 

[MustangRyan]

Oh and by the way, if I make the remainder of this season's races (I actually think 300 miles is a doable distance, 400 is already overkill though) will I still be eligible for Rookie of the Year next season if I join Sprint Cup full-time, seeing as how I'm only a Nationwide driver?

I guess it depends on how Knelly classifies Nationwide drivers such as yourself, Nater, Litchi, etc for this season. Either way, you can compete against those same guys for it this season or next.

 

[Müle]

So what's happening here, other than having my comments avoided, and finding further ways in comments to try and pass the blame onto me, making the two spins out to be my fault.

I will be providing further evidence as soon as I can figure out how to get pics on here.

Will my penalty be recinded or will others be penalised appropriately?

You're still getting points for 5th place. I'm the only one actually getting a real penalty.