GTSport FiA Online //Racing Incident\\ Who is at Fault?

[K3Tuning]

In GTSport Online Daily Races during a 10 lap race at Blue Moon Bay Speedway One Make Races a Racing Incident occurred. There is a lead pack of 4 cars separating from the rest and an incident occurs on lap 6 where all 4 of the lead pack cars go into 1 corner together hard and the lead car gets taken out. What each of the 4 cars does in the corner affected the outcome of the incident but the question I have is WHO is at Fault and or was it just an unintentional incident? Maybe DIRTY driving? Putting big hit punts aside is a little tappy tap DIRTY or should the guy be able to handle it without losing control spinning out? Remember Punts aside. This is one of those incidents where you really have to look at what each of the cars does and where the intentions lay... Plus later on in the race the 2 lead cars trade position a lot with some rubbing and bumping going on... Is there some Dirtyness going on to the finish or is it just an intense battle to the line???





What do you think? Did the right Driver win this race?

Please don't crucify any of the Drivers I feel these can be points to learn how to handle situations like this where it gets crazy. Often online tempers fly and the whole story not really evident even with video on multiple angles as the corner got really complicated with 4 cars fighting it out really close. In the aftermath we can go over the things that happened to learn how to be clean drivers learn what to do when driving so close to other people instead of Bots.

If any of the drivers in the race are here please get involve in the convo but lets keep our tempers holstered, this thread is for learning to be better drivers, NOT for getting scolded.

 

[sturk0167]

In GTSport Online Daily Races during a 10 lap race at Blue Moon Bay Speedway One Make Races a Racing Incident occurred. There is a lead pack of 4 cars separating from the rest and an incident occurs on lap 6 where all 4 of the lead pack cars go into 1 corner together hard and the lead car gets taken out. What each of the 4 cars does in the corner affected the outcome of the incident but the question I have is WHO is at Fault and or was it just an unintentional incident? Maybe DIRTY driving? Putting big hit punts aside is a little tappy tap DIRTY or should the guy be able to handle it without losing control spinning out? Remember Punts aside. This is one of those incidents where you really have to look at what each of the cars does and where the intentions lay... Plus later on in the race the 2 lead cars trade position a lot with some rubbing and bumping going on... Is there some Dirtyness going on to the finish or is it just an intense battle to the line???





What do you think? Did the right Driver win this race?

Please don't crucify any of the Drivers I feel these can be points to learn how to handle situations like this where it gets crazy. Often online tempers fly and the whole story not really evident even with video on multiple angles as the corner got really complicated with 4 cars fighting it out really close. In the aftermath we can go over the things that happened to learn how to be clean drivers learn what to do when driving so close to other people instead of Bots.

If any of the drivers in the race are here please get involve in the convo but lets keep our tempers holstered, this thread is for learning to be better drivers, NOT for getting scolded.

Racing incident. Nothing dirty.

 

[GT_Alex74]

Driver in 4th is clearly at fault for the pit manoeuver. Comes in from way too far and too fast, while the other guy stays in his lane which is not unusual in Nascar in a pack. In front, the dark one seems like he just fails on his own.

 

[ARTAsean]

4th place is simply a noob and is only keeping up because of slipstream.

It wasn't dirty because taking the Canadian out was clearly not intentional. But be should have known top split was going 3 wide, and slowed appropriately. When the other 2 silver cars slowed to avoid the blue car, the noob in 4th just tried to plow through. Because he sucks.

As fun as BMB is, this is exactly why I haven't touched that track in about 9 months. I've zero patience for carrying noobs around a track only to get taken out by them.

 

[T_revisio]

Slipstream seemed a bit too strong for a faster driver to get a gap, which led to incidents.

 

[K3Tuning]

What about the blue car going so far on the inside that fast?

Its been mentioned thats a bad move because he cant make the corner from the inside at that speed. His aggressive move triggering 2nd car to maneuver to avoid him, that maneuver messed up the guy who originally had the lead, or was it already his responsibility for his own car at this point. Was the bump from 4th place that bad? I see hes going in hot but couldn't of expected the guy to come down on him from the outside, I do feel he should of expected the cars ahead to be maneuvering and keep his options open tho. Just didn't seem like a crazy hard hit maybe I should look a bit closer.

blue car did make the corner tho, didnt hit the wall or anybody else. But does this give him a pass?

Looks like an aggressive but legit move to me

blue car was in the lead before the corner and before the 3 lead cars got on the brakes. 2nd car did exactly what I always thought is what you are supposed to do here and yield the way of the blue car knowing it would have to go wide scrubbing speed and holding a good line should put me in the front before the exit or not far after.

Had the Guy who was in the lead but lost it before the corner not tried to take the corner so hard despite cars on his inside he would of not made initial contact or been wild on the track as 4th place comes in to bump him out, he did go into 4th place lane. Was the bump that bad, are we supposed to cry foul every bump or only the ones we cant handle and lose control? It didnt look like a punt to me and the guy who spun out came down into 4th place lane as he was hit. At what point are we responsible for keeping our stuff together as stuff gets complicated?



Is the draft that strong in these events?




What I find interesting about this incident and many more like this is the guys who look innocent and the guys who look responsible IMHO are reversed. IMO The guy who was in the lead up until the incident had lost his position but felt he had the "right of way" driving hard into the corner despite the teal car being there, He should of yielded the position and avoid the 2nd and 3rd place cars but hes okay once he gets 3rd position

AFTER MUCH REVIEW

Everything is okay at this point. Teal Car in the lead blue car 2nd and guy who lost his lead position now in 3rd while 4th is coming on the inside.

Buddy now in 3rd place appears to immediately pull to the inside to get a run on 2nd place out of the corner but 4th place was also coming on the inside and they got into each other taking him out. Must of had no idea he was driving right into 4th place line.

I believe its his fault for not following the lines of the 2 cars in front of him driving into 4th place lane as 4th place was coming even though 4th place could of avoided him I don't feel 4th is to blame

The guy in 2nd car before the corner was the star in the corner coming out of it in first place

 

[fastone371]

I dont know in the world anyone can blame the guy in 4th. He pushes up a little but the car 3rd turns down a lot. As far as the teal car being the leader going into 1 he only grabs the lead because of a very late braking maneuver. Had the teal car braked in time to maintain his line he never would have been the leader, this is a clear case of a dive bomb yet most of you can not see that which I can only presume is because that is your preference for passing. If anything positions 1-3 should have maintained their lines going thru the entirety of the corner, clearly the teal car did not. I understand that the leader has the right to the racing line in the corner, the teal car took anything but a racing line, it was a crashing line that he took, not a racing line. Reading the reply's here it becomes clear why the driving in sport mode can be so pathetic. I would like to see some actual racers comment on this, I have yet to see a move like this in any series that I have ever seen. (other than maybe Cole Trickle and the Skake N Bake guy) I can pretty much guarantee if real races were like this the driver of the teal car if not black flagged would be in the race directors office for quite some time after the race. Wow, just wow!!!!

 

[K3Tuning]

I honestly felt the car car that got knocked out was the real issue.

My guess is after getting passed and clipping the teal car he went immediately to the inside to get a run on them in the next straight. I agree he should of followed the line of the 2 cars infront of him but instead without shoulder checking (that we can do online) he went right into 4th place lane/line causing his own demise.....

Often this type of thing turns into a get back issue the car who took himself out now bent on taking out somebody for revenge.

 

[K3Tuning]

I dont know in the world anyone can blame the guy in 4th. He pushes up a little but the car 3rd turns down a lot. As far as the teal car being the leader going into 1 he only grabs the lead because of a very late braking maneuver. Had the teal car braked in time to maintain his line he never would have been the leader, this is a clear case of a dive bomb yet most of you can not see that which I can only presume is because that is your preference for passing. If anything positions 1-3 should have maintained their lines going thru the entirety of the corner, clearly the teal car did not. I understand that the leader has the right to the racing line in the corner, the teal car took anything but a racing line, it was a crashing line that he took, not a racing line. Reading the reply's here it becomes clear why the driving in sport mode can be so pathetic. I would like to see some actual racers comment on this, I have yet to see a move like this in any series that I have ever seen. (other than maybe Cole Trickle and the Skake N Bake guy) I can pretty much guarantee if real races were like this the driver of the teal car if not black flagged would be in the race directors office for quite some time after the race. Wow, just wow!!!!

I had not paid much attention to the very start of the race but after looking I see exactly what you mean


Instead of taking a proper line he goes far wide then cuts all the way to the inside the blue car didn't get in trouble but the lead cars is taking a Dive Bomb line that had the blue car been a bit further ahead would of had to hit the brakes to avoid him and lose momentum

Also as hes in the lead hes driving all over the track to prevent people drafting

Thats a BIG NO NO the same as moving out your line into somebody else line lol contact may occur as it indeed did

 

[rono_thomas]

Car in 3rd has every right to be wherever he likes in the corner until 4th place achieves enough overlap to contest the corner, which he never achieves because he doesn’t factor in the natural line of a late apex the car in the 3rd is obviously going to take, the result is avoidable contact with 4th place car at fault, not a dirty move, just a naive one.

 

[K3Tuning]

Car in 3rd has every right to be wherever he likes in the corner until 4th place achieves enough overlap to contest the corner, which he never achieves because he doesn’t factor in the natural line of a late apex the car in the 3rd is obviously going to take, the result is avoidable contact with 4th place car at fault, not a dirty move, just a naive one.

Is there no issue 3rd driving directly into another cars line. kinda like blocking ain't it had 4th been a bit further back, it seemed 4th was already there when 3rd turned into him.

Is 4th actually responsible to I guess predict 3rd would turn in on him or is he supposed to give 3rd room for unexpected unnessesary maneuvers?

It looks very much like a cut to the inside vs a late apex. The 2 lead cars were both on the late apex line he could of stayed right behind them instead of cutting to the inside where 4th was already and I do not believe 4th should have or even could have predicted 3rd would cut to the inside to make a move barely after recovering from his tap with the other car


Are the other 2 cars that ended up the 2 lead cars at fault for the maneuvers that led to the original lead car losing position?

IMO no, blue car had the lead going in the corner so he can take the line he likes even if its a bad line for him scrubbing off speed and ultimately losing the lead exiting the corner. The guy who makes it out with him was perfect in the corner, makes a flawless pass seeing the blue car inside knowing he would go wide make a text book cut inside out for the lead out the corner



I think there is a disconnect RACING vs Time Trials n stuff. I think some also think they own positions and have the right to a line if they were the lead car but lose position going into the corner.



In a one make race especially, if everybody stays on the driving line nobody could ever make an overtake

 

[K3Tuning]

Niki Lauda Explaining how to overtake and who has right of way fighting for the lead going into a corner

It's at 16:20 if you want to skip to it but even though its old its a great video

A Demonstration is made using 2 identical Porsche 928 at 16:20



""Most overtaking is done on corners or when you approach them. The basic technique is that you out brake the other guy. If you can leave your braking a fraction later you may be able to get your nose in front. This is all extremely dangerous and we have to rely on each other to give way at a certain moment. Our rule for ourselves is when you see the other man has braked later than you, you give way. if you don't both cars may come off the road.""

Niki Lauda Formula 1 World Champion

 

[Veinz]

IMHO, all four cars played their part in that, some more than others. Everyone there could have done something a little different but that's easy to say in hindsight. **** happens in the heat of the moment and I don't really see anything malicious in this, just hard racing, so I'd say it's a racing incident.

 

[fastone371]

Regardless I still say the teal car made the worst move. Being first to the corner, (and once again that's questionable because he was not taking a racing line, anyone can late brake and slide across the entire width of the track and the other cars,) does not allow you to take any line thru the corner, a predictable racing line, yes, unpredictable, no. That's where the whole problem lies, everyone likes the racing to be realistic yet either people refuse to drive realistically or dont know what realistic is if their life depended on it. PD will never be able to sort out penalties if people dont know what real, predictable racing is or refuse to treat GTS as anything but a cheap video game. I doubt that you would see driving like that at the front of an A+/A+ lobby, what does that say?

 

[kilesa4568]

Clumsy driving all round but nothing malicious from what I could see. Typical BMB T1 stuff really.

 

[K3Tuning]

Sorry for my GTS noobness but what's BMB T1?

I personally dont think we can say everybody made mistakes, especially the one car who makes it out in first despite getting a rear quarter panel love tap. Ultimately I don't think the other 3 cars are at fault for the spin out, it was his own fault simple as that. Had he kept his stuff together it would of just been a corner with some action nothing more, only because he crashed out does it get controversial.

In a race everybody is fighting for the win and drivers have no choice but to brake from the perfect line to make a pass. Listening to Niki Lauda speak on it makes PERFECT sense to me. The lead car does not own the position and must yield if he sees the other guy ahead of him on the inside brake later than him. Its here where issues occurs because buddy in first place has run his TT over and over and he's great while on the line but seems people dont know how to move from that line as they are not the only car on the track.

Its silly to think these are TT with multiple cars on the track fighting for position fighting for the fast line. Its not a TT you do not have ownership of the perfect line, the guy behind you finds a window and gets his nose in you lost the line, sucks to be you race to get it back. It almost like if somebody gets pole position they think they own 1st place and the driving line dont nobidy do anything to upset them in that line. Heck no, this is RACING people should learn racing is not the same as time trials lol

What I find is in video game world there is a refusal to yield the car that's making the pass and to drive right through them, if this knocks out the dive bombing driver they call foul and call names like moron, should of known I had the line etc, no responsibility at all, even though they see the guy pass them before the turn in point, before braking seemingly as if they think they own the corner lol


Now Ive watched way way dirtier stuff in F1 Schumacher comes to mind right away for some seriously questionable passes. Or how about BTCC in the 90's Holy Moly some crazy ish went down it was awesome from a spectator perspective

 

[rono_thomas]

Turn 1 Blue Moon Bay

 

[ROCKET JOE]

I second @fastone371 in this case.
I remember another "Who's at fault" thread here and the subject was late braking / dive bombing. Sorry guys I didn't search for it - one general consensus was that when you attempt such a move, you should be able to hit the apex, stay on an inside line and in NO WAY overshoot the corner. I don't know too much about oval rules but there hopefully is something similar in place.
I don't think one of the drivers is dirty. The guy in the blue car proved to be a good driver later in the race and I'm sure he knew what would happen, it's probably been his desperate attempt to finally get in the lead. A bad attempt though. If he hadn't dared to force it, nothing would have happened. Sorry man, you're not gonna be "Rookie of the Year" !

 

[Veinz]

Yes, attacking at such an acute angle rarely works out well.

 

[K3Tuning]

I find this interesting

So blue car going so far to the inside was too aggressive in his move

The 2nd lead car actually forces him to the deep inside as he begins pushing a side by side gap with the lead car before the corner. Maybe the car that takes the lead out of the corner is not so innocent. The blue car would not of been so deep on the inside had he not been pushed over

The only things griping me about his move, aggressive as it may be, is he made the corner exiting on the right line, he made the pass to take lead before turning in and before braking for the corner so the other drivers according to Niki Lauda should give way, the car Teal car who eventually took the lead out the corner did so and here is where I think RACING comes in vs Time Trials. Knowing the blue cars aggressive move would ultimately scrub off speed costing him momentum through the corner holding a tight line even though way has been given I can carry more speed through the corner and take the lead before the exit or on the straight right after. That's Racing or am I missing something?

 

[rono_thomas]

is he made the corner exiting on the right line

But he didn’t. That’s not a controlled exit in any way, he entered inside line with too much speed and understeered all the way wide, If he’d of scrubbed more speed and held the inside and moved wide on exit without crowding the other cars of track, in this case a wall then the move would have been textbook. As it is the other drivers expected him to have too much speed broke earlier and set themselves up for a cutback but Car 3 clipped car 2 and then car 4 repeated car 1 mistake and hit car 3. Just a calamity of mistakes.

 

[Groundfish]

What Lauda said is inapplicable to sport mode almost completely.
In sport mode the best pass is after corner exit on the strait.
You can only do what Lauda said if you trust your opponent.

 

[K3Tuning]

But he didn’t. That’s not a controlled exit in any way, he entered inside line with too much speed and understeered all the way wide, If he’d of scrubbed more speed and held the inside and moved wide on exit without crowding the other cars of track, in this case a wall then the move would have been textbook. As it is the other drivers expected him to have too much speed broke earlier and set themselves up for a cutback but Car 3 clipped car 2 and then car 4 repeated car 1 mistake and hit car 3. Just a calamity of mistakes.

Kay so you're saying the issue is more his line was deep inside late and deep apex and then exit on the right line. Despite having the lead and being forced to the deep inside, he cant make a move unless its on the racing line?

What Lauda said is inapplicable to sport mode almost completely.
In sport mode the best pass is after corner exit on the strait.
You can only do what Lauda said if you trust your opponent.

this is a good point, all drivers need to be following same rules and ready to do so

 

[ARTAsean]

What Lauda said is inapplicable to sport mode almost completely.
In sport mode the best pass is after corner exit on the strait.
You can only do what Lauda said if you trust your opponent.

Not to mention that almost everyone in Sport Mode is already braking as late as possible. In a 70's F1 car you had some leeway to brake late, because if you **** up, you'd likely die. Braking "a fraction later" in GTS would simply put you into the gravel. At the very least it would ruin your line and you'd just get passed on the inside anyway.

 

[rono_thomas]

Kay so you're saying the issue is more his line was deep inside late and deep apex and then exit on the right line. Despite having the lead and being forced to the deep inside, he cant make a move unless its on the racing line?

He’s understeering from here,

Thats not an apex basically he’s over cooked it by about 25-50m, from here you can see cars 2 and 3 are ready for it they’ve conceded the corner and are preparing for a better exit, would have worked had car 3 not hit car 2 and had car 4 followed them for a faster exit rather than a quicker entry.

 

[K3Tuning]

Not to mention that almost everyone in Sport Mode is already braking as late as possible. In a 70's F1 car you had some leeway to brake late, because if you **** up, you'd likely die. Braking "a fraction later" in GTS would simply put you into the gravel. At the very least it would ruin your line and you'd just get passed on the inside anyway.

Thats also true F1 cars you have a heck of a lot more control to adjust to the other cars. Good point. Everybody seems to be in GTS mode driving like its TT braking the very last moment on each corner

At the very least it would ruin your line and you'd just get passed on the inside anyway.

This is how I see it.

Clearly the blue car was going in deep and aggressive. This was certainly going to scrub off speed for him and hes going to lose momentum possible go into the wall ultimately taking him out, so Im looking for the pass around exit or on the straight soon after.

This is EXACTLY what the Teal car who got the lead out the corner did and got position for it. He did push the blue car to the inside making his move a little more aggressive..

 

[K3Tuning]

He’s understeering from here,

View attachment 790405

Thats not an apex basically he’s over cooked it by about 25-50m, from here you can see cars 2 and 3 are ready for it they’ve conceded the corner and are preparing for a better exit, would have worked had car 3 not hit car 2 and had car 4 followed them for a faster exit rather than a quicker entry.

Okay but on this track especially the first and last corner not a single car holds a lane ever, there is a cut down to the inside and maybe not so much the first corner but a heck of a lot on the last corner, everybody cuts in hard and under steers out. its like saying thats okay on that corner because everybody does it but not on the first unless you do it the same as the others.

 

[rono_thomas]

Right so as things went the blue car scrubbed off too much speed and lot position out of the corner.

No he didnt slow enough. He’s messed corner entry up with too much speed causing understeer and as a result he’s not in control of the car.

 

[K3Tuning]

you can see cars 2 and 3 are ready for it they’ve conceded the corner and are preparing for a better exit, would have worked had car 3 not hit car 2 and had car 4 followed them for a faster exit rather than a quicker entry.

Right so as things went the blue car scrubbed off too much speed and lost position out of the corner. Text Book way for that teal car to handle an aggressive move on the inside is it not? Leaving the corner ahead of the pack.



I also see the blue car make a very different move on the same corner later on in the race to take the lead and ultimately win the race despite getting bumped from behind in corners, before corners and on the inside in corners.


Is it okay to see a guy coming to pass on the inside and push them to the inside forcing them onto a bad line? On one hand it looks like the blue car is just going for an aggressive move but looking at the Teal car he gets pushed further to the inside than he had to be as that Teal car pushes to the inside building a side by side gap with the car on the outside.

Is the inside move not okay but pushing somebody to the inside is not a problem?

No he didnt slow enough. He’s messed corner entry up with too much speed causing understeer and as a result he’s not in control of the car.

If he lost control wouldnt he of hit the wall. Is this a bad move as it leads to a better driver taking a better line getting the lead or is it straight dirty to get pushed to the inside and take the corner hot and ultimately make the corner without going off the track, well hitting the wall in this case

 

[rono_thomas]

Right so as things went the blue car scrubbed off too much speed and lost position out of the corner. Text Book way for that teal car to handle an aggressive move on the inside is it not? Leaving the corner ahead of the pack.



I also see the blue car make a very different move on the same corner later on in the race to take the lead and ultimately win the race despite getting bumped from behind in corners, before corners and on the inside in corners.


Is it okay to see a guy coming to pass on the inside and push them to the inside forcing them onto a bad line? On one hand it looks like the blue car is just going for an aggressive move but looking at the Teal car he gets pushed further to the inside than he had to be as that Teal car pushes to the inside building a side by side gap with the car on the outside.

Is the inside move not okay but pushing somebody to the inside is not a problem?



If he lost control wouldnt he of hit the wall. Is this a bad move as it leads to a better driver taking a better line getting the lead or is it straight dirty to get pushed to the inside and take the car fast and ultimately make the corner without going off the track,well hitting the wall in this case

Theres nothing dirty about being forced inside to overtake thats normal racing chess, racing room has to be left (space for a car).

Understeering as he is means he wouldn’t if he needed to be able change the trajectory in any way to avoid anything, he’s a passenger till he regains grip, had cars 2 and 3 decided to hold their lines on the outside he would of smashed into them resulting in a dirty move.