Head Tracking Confirmed for GT5!!!

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With 3 screens you don't need head tracking, you just look at one of the side screens... this is actually very intuitive (because it's exactly how it happens in real life). Unless you mean to actually look behind you or something, in which case, yes you could combine head tracking and 3 screens, but the fundamental problem still exists.

Technically, a 3 screen setup doesn't show you what's 90 degrees to the left or right of you, it just gives you a panoramic view of what's in front of you, maybe it goes as far as 45 degrees of what you usually see looking head on. So when I said that, I meant as if you were to look right, on the right screen you would still be able to see what's in front of you, but it would give you more of a view of what's directly on the side of you as well. Hope thats not to confusing to understand.
But to reiterate, I kinda feel the same way you do, I would still like to try it to see how it would work, but I myself probably feel that it would just annoy me more than anything.
 
On every post that disagree with you or like the idea?

I see a lot of effort to convince us how a big flaw the tracking will be.

Fact: There are people that hate cocpkpit views and can't play with it, there are people that love it. If the technology exists PD are smart enought to made playable and tune it right to be friendly for most of us.

I don't understand your insistence, you are acting like if is not for you then is not for nobody. Just wait until they show how work and have in mind that there are people that actually use it with racing games and like it.

No I am just correcting people who made the same mistakes with their assumptions I did before I tried it. It's an easy thing to do .

True I am being persistant, but head tracking is something that really interested me and I got into so I kind of have a lot to say...

Again, am not hating on it, and I am all for having it put into GT5 as an option, I mean why not?

I am just saying what I have found to be true on the subject through personal experience.
 
I have used Track IR and I love it, especially for flight sims but it's good in racing games too but just not so important. In racing sims it takes some more adjustment time because you're contantly orientating your car around a track at high speed and frequency (trying to hit apex's etc) while in flight sims you're not so much. Most uses in racing is just the ability to glance at mirrors that are not fully in view and check where others are, nothing extreme.

I hope PD has some sensitivity and range adjustments. One thing about the PS eye support though is if you don't like it much, you arn't seriously out of pocket like you are if you bought a Track IR.
 
Technically, a 3 screen setup doesn't show you what's 90 degrees to the left or right of you, it just gives you a panoramic view of what's in front of you, maybe it goes as far as 45 degrees of what you usually see looking head on. So when I said that, I meant as if you were to look right, on the right screen you would still be able to see what's in front of you, but it would give you more of a view of what's directly on the side of you as well. Hope thats not to confusing to understand.
But to reiterate, I kinda feel the same way you do, I would still like to try it to see how it would work, but I myself probably feel that it would just annoy me more than anything.

Yeah a 3 screen setup still leave some blind spots (I think 8 screens in an octagon around your head would be sweet!).

Actually in the news page there is a video of a guy running 3 screens with head tracking. So yes it can be done and I guess someone did do it.

Of note though, watch how the guy uses head tracking... even in a demo of the tech he almost never uses it accept when he is more or less stationary (well burning out isn't stationary but it's not racing speed is the point)... that's how I and most people I know ended up using it in racing games.. sparely, as an afterthought and only when you were in a long sweeping constant radius turn where the dissorietentation was minimally probematic.
 
I haven't used head tracking with the PSeye on a PS3 playing GT5 yet and I dont think anyone else here has either. Good head tracking starts with the right hardware and from the head tracking demos I have seen the PSeye looks capable. Some people might not like the feature and decide not to use it, but I have positive experiences with head tracking and have no reason not to be optimistic about its inclusion in GT5. I dont think silly tests are the best way to decide if head tracking is for you, I think each person should try it first-hand and then make a decision.


@Devedander
The guy playing grid really doesnt need to move his head too much because he has 3 screens! He has plenty of vision just looking foward!
 
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I haven't used head tracking with the PSeye on a PS3 playing GT5 yet and I dont think anyone else here has either. Good head tracking starts with the right hardware and from the head tracking demos I have seen the PSeye looks capable. Some people might not like the feature and decide not to use it, but I have positive experiences with head tracking and have no reason not to be optimistic about its inclusion in GT5. I dont think silly tests are the best way to decide if head tracking is for you, I think each person should try it first-hand and then make a decision.

It' true no one has used it on the PS3 yet, but when it comes to a foundation, I would say the foundation for good head tracking is actually chooing the right application, and I just don't think driving games are it. While no one has tried it in GT5, the fundamental of head tracking are pretty much nailed down by now and the videos show that the PS3 is doing the standard head tracking, it's nothing new, just something new to consoles.

I mean before DDR came out on the PS3 you could say that no one had played DDR on the PS3 either, but we all kind of know how it' gonna work. Same idea... head tracking has been refined and perfected to pretty much as far as it can go under current technologies (and I would even venture the PC world is beyond the PS3 world in tech) so how it's implimented on the PS3 really comes down to whether they put in the proven positive features of it (ie sensitivity tracking, good facial recognition software, adjustable pretty much everything etc).

As for the right hardware, I don't think anyone can argue that TrackIR is about the best consumer level head tracking hardware there is out there and it's getting used daily on some hefty PCs. And those are exactly the situations that I am talking about, seriously go check out videos of anyone using TrackIR (or any head tracking) in a racing game and you will see that it gets little or no use in the sense of looking into apex's etc.


I do agree it can be a handy way to check the rear views, especially for people who play with gas and brake on the face pad (I play with L and R triggers).
 
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It' true no one has used it on the PS3 yet, but when it comes to a foundation, I would say the foundation for good head tracking is actually chooing the right application, and I just don't think driving games are it. While no one has tried it in GT5, the fundamental of head tracking are pretty much nailed down by now and the videos show that the PS3 is doing the standard head tracking, it's nothing new, just something new to consoles.

I mean before DDR came out on the PS3 you could say that no one had played DDR on the PS3 either, but we all kind of know how it' gonna work. Same idea... head tracking has been refined and perfected to pretty much as far as it can go under current technologies (and I would even venture the PC world is beyond the PS3 world in tech) so how it's implimented on the PS3 really comes down to whether they put in the proven positive features of it (ie sensitivity tracking, good facial recognition software, adjustable pretty much everything etc).

As for the right hardware, I don't think anyone can argue that TrackIR is about the best consumer level head tracking hardware there is out there and it's getting used daily on some hefty PCs. And those are exactly the situations that I am talking about, seriously go check out videos of anyone using TrackIR (or any head tracking) in a racing game and you will see that it gets little or no use in the sense of looking into apex's etc.

I do agree it can be a handy way to check the rear views, especially for people who play with gas and brake on the face pad (I play with L and R triggers).

So do you think head tracking is a good thing for driving games or not? You say its good for checking mirrors but not at looking at apexs? ok, so you are trying to tell me not to use it for driving purposes and just to check their mirrors with it. ok, advice taken but I'll try whatever I want with it and come to my own conclusions. I encourage everyone else to do the same.
 
So do you think head tracking is a good thing for driving games or not? You say its good for checking mirrors but not at looking at apexs? ok, so you are trying to tell me not to use it for driving purposes and just to check their mirrors with it. ok, advice taken but I'll try whatever I want with it and come to my own conclusions. I encourage everyone else to do the same.

It's both :)

I think driving games are one of the least appropriate applications for head tracking.

Overall I think head tracking is not suited to racing game becuase driving a car involves a lot of sensory input that you don't get in a game, mainly momentum. That means that you must suppliment this lost sensory input with another that you have: site.

So in order to make up for this lacking information, your eyes are forced to do more work comparing what you do to what happens on screen. Rather than feel how much the cars direction is changing, you must visually inspect the results to know whether you have to change your input or not. In real life this would be a split between eyes and body detecting momentum, in games, it's all eyes.

Generally your eyes do a good job but when you start tossing things at it such a unrealistic pov changes (ie you turn your head and the world turns the opposite way around you) it gets in the way of that. If you have ever played one of those games where your mouse controls get reversed or flipped, using head tracking feels a lot like that right off... you do something, your eyes report back what they see and then your brain just goes "WTF that's not right".

You are constantly using what you see to judge where you are going and the static viewpoint goes a long way to giving you some anchor.

Head tracking doesn't replicate what happens in the real world and it doesn't add back the missing momentum input. It offers a new feature which doesn't lend itself well to tracking what's going on visually as the anchor keeps changing.

There result is that head tracking adds a dissorienting and unreaslitic way to look around you.

Now in terms of replacing a button or switch (ie you go 100% or nothing) head tracking is not as bad. This is because there is no analog compromise to deal with.

When looking into an apex, the amount you turn your head effect how much the view changes on screen. Since it's not 1:1 you have to do some compensation for how much your view has changed. This involves a lot of finagling and careful twisting of the head, seconds of reorientation during which you are not driving your best as you are trying to get reasociated with your view.

Think of it like when someone walk in front of you while you are driving. Despite the fact they are only disrupting your view for a split second, it takes a bit to get back on track and sometimes you crash because of this small, temporary interuption. Adjusting to figure out just how far the head tracking has turned your view does something similar. It's disruptive. It's not adding back something that was missing as much a it's disrupting what you are doing in large part becuase you have to worry about how far you are turning your head.

Now for a quick snap to look a set angle at your rearview, basically replacing a button press, it's different. It's functional and much less disruptive.

I would relate it to the difference between steering through sweepinng curves on an analog stick where you have to keep going back and forth in the middle of the sticks travel vs playing street fighter with analog sticks where you just snap the sticks full left or right or you don't.

In the latter case, head tracking takes a lot less concentration and adjusting to use, and if you are the kind of person who has no fingers left becuase you run the gas and brake on the face buttons, it can be a good option.

However if you run gas and brake on the shoulder buttons, I think the face buttons or stick are a better option to look at the rearviews. If you have a wheel then I would think head tracking would be pretty much your only option. But not because it's head tracking, it's just using another appendage. You could get about the same results if you just put a big push button on either side of your head and hit it with your head to look at your left or right rear view.

So is head tracking good for racing games? Yes and no... yes if it gives you use of one more appendage to do something that you couldn't before, no if you are trying to make it more realistic by looking into apexs like you do while really driving.

I agree, everyone should try for themselves... I already suggested having a friend work the right stick to track your head or even doing it yourself.

Some people DO like it, although I have yet to see anyone really use it to any value. It seems some people can get accustomed to it reasonably, but unlike pedals and a wheel I have yet to see anyone really get value out of using it.

As I said, nothing wrong with putting this in GT5, worst case is you just turn it off! But as long as people want to offer up reasons why the issues with head tracking aren't issues, I will be happy to explain why my experience says not.

BTW I think we can all agree $35 for a PSeye isn't much to spend if you don't like it, but really $35 isn't chump change, it's half the cost of a new full retail game. And when you can test it easily yourself, I would hate to see people throw that money away on something I have tried and experienced.

Feel free to ask another question, my fingers are all warmed up! :D
 
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your hands must be on fire!

when playing with the DS3, i use overhead view which gives me plenty of vision. I plan on using head tracking just with the wheel in cockpit view.

I think that your trying to tone down the hype on this feature because you dont believe its going to add, or possibly take away from, the gameplay. Nothing wrong with that, but again, based on my own experience I think this is a feature I will enjoy and I am looking forward to trying it.
 
your hands must be on fire!

when playing with the DS3, i use overhead view which gives me plenty of vision. I plan on using head tracking just with the wheel in cockpit view.

I think that your trying to tone down the hype on this feature because you dont believe its going to add, or possibly take away from, the gameplay. Nothing wrong with that, but again, based on my own experience I think this is a feature I will enjoy and I am looking forward to trying it.

I type fast :)

I hadn't even thought of head tracking with outside the car views... yeah I think it's really best for in the car views.

I suppose you could say that's what I am doing... I think of it as trying to use my experience to help others see past the assumptions I made. I actually spent quite a good amount of time and at least $50 in parts tinkering with head tracking because I was sure it would be awesome... hours (days) and $$$ later and trying and trying and analyzing why it wasn't working for me, this is where I am at.

Hey, to everyone who want's to try it, go for it! If you can do it by having your friend run the analog stick to simulate head tracking, I think you can make a fairly good decision based on that, and if $35 really is nothing to you (or you already have a Pseye) and are going to get GT5 anyway, it's free to try, nothing to loose.

But to those who are going on the assumption it will be awesome and feel just like it does in real life... if they are interested in objectively looking at the situation, I am happy to share my experience. Maybe it will save some people from blindly spending $35 on the PSeye due to the hype and lack of being objective...
 
I am hoping head tracking in GT5 with the PSeye will include full motion (up down, in, out , tilt etc) like the Track IR does and not just like the left-right movement with the analogue stick. Will be nice to get a fresh car (especially when you first start the game) and use head tracking to have a good look around the interior and even look closer at details by moving closer to the screen.
 
Jay
I am hoping head tracking in GT5 with the PSeye will include full motion (up down, in, out , tilt etc) like the Track IR does and not just like the left-right movement with the analogue stick. Will be nice to get a fresh car (especially when you first start the game) and use head tracking to have a good look around the interior and even look closer at details by moving closer to the screen.

It looks like it will from the previews of the head tracking... I think they show the results of moving closer and farther from the screen.

It makes me wonder though if yhou have to be close to the pseye for it to work well as the farther you get, the less detail the camera will be able to pick up and the less accurate it can be, especially in the area of z axis movement.
 
I will definitely pick up a PSeye if GT5 supports it. From my real life experience, I always move my head around to look if I hit the apex close enough. Mainly because the A pillar and the side mirror blocking my view.

However there is an interesting fact: we will get to adjust the field of view, since the device must be calibrated before recognizing player's head. Let's say your head moving forward and pretending in normal position during calibration, now you get wider view since the head tracking system thinks your head moving backward all time but your head is actually in normal position :dopey:
 
Head tracking could also be used in the game not just while driving. You could use this feature as part of the photo mode. Imagine your car parked beautifully somewhere or pausing a replay at the perfect moment and then being able to get up and move around the room and see the car from different angles and it would appear to be in 3D. You could walk up to the car and say you just hit a wall you could see all the individual bits flying off in 3D. PD has some great car models, tracks, and photo locations and to be able to view them as a 3D model like some of the demos we have seen would be great.
 
It makes me wonder though if yhou have to be close to the pseye for it to work well as the farther you get, the less detail the camera will be able to pick up and the less accurate it can be, especially in the area of z axis movement.

We will have to wait and see, this is probably why infrared tracking is commonly used as I imagine it would be more accurate and much easier to detect.
 
I will definitely pick up a PSeye if GT5 supports it. From my real life experience, I always move my head around to look if I hit the apex close enough. Mainly because the A pillar and the side mirror blocking my view.

However there is an interesting fact: we will get to adjust the field of view, since the device must be calibrated before recognizing player's head. Let's say your head moving forward and pretending in normal position during calibration, now you get wider view since the head tracking system thinks your head moving backward all time but your head is actually in normal position :dopey:

Jay
We will have to wait and see, this is probably why infrared tracking is commonly used as I imagine it would be more accurate and much easier to detect.

Definitely, with IR tracking you get very defined small constant tracking points, with facial recognition you are relying on things like eyes and mouth corners, things which are not as defined or easy to track accurately.
 
why be so sceptic about something that they are supporting..

if they put something into a game it would function to your advatage.

not against you ....
 
why be so sceptic about something that they are supporting..

if they put something into a game it would function to your advatage.

not against you ....

I a skeptic about head tracking and racing in general as I just think it doensn't work well.

No reason not to put it in the game, but it's the people who are going to blindly drop $35 on a pseye for something that I really think won't work like they think it will...

That's not even considering what they might have left out while focusing on head tracking... I mean people are hating on GT PSP for cutting into GT5 dev time...
 
I a skeptic about head tracking and racing in general as I just think it doensn't work well.

No reason not to put it in the game, but it's the people who are going to blindly drop $35 on a pseye for something that I really think won't work like they think it will...

That's not even considering what they might have left out while focusing on head tracking... I mean people are hating on GT PSP for cutting into GT5 dev time...

You dont need to worry about people blindly dropping money because I can guarantee that there will be videos posted on this very site and possibly in this very thread showing someone playing GT5 with head tracking. Not only that but I can also guarantee that there will be numerous reviews of the feature on this site and, again, possibly on this very thread. We all respect your opinion and welcome it but nobody is going to blindly follow someone's opinion on the feature this early on with no experience using this specific device in this perticular game.
 
You dont need to worry about people blindly dropping money because I can guarantee that there will be videos posted on this very site and possibly in this very thread showing someone playing GT5 with head tracking. Not only that but I can also guarantee that there will be numerous reviews of the feature on this site and, again, possibly on this very thread. We all respect your opinion and welcome it but nobody is going to blindly follow someone's opinion on the feature this early on with no experience using this specific device in this perticular game.

Oh trust me, there will be people blindly dropping money on the pseye, mark my words on that.

I already went through it, there are plenty of videos of TrackIR in use out there, and I watched them all before working on my headtracking setup and not until I had tried it out myself did I know what to look for. There are plenty of reviews too which say it works great. Back in the day I actually contacted some of the people who gave some of those reviews and asked how they had gotten it to work well, the answer was always that it had been great when they tried it, then they reviewed it positively, but weeks or months later it fell by the wayside for the driving games. Only for flight sims did I find people consistently having good results. It was weird watching the TrackIR videos again, ones that had looked so awesome and had shown how easy it was to naturally make it so you could look around in the game world, only to suddenly see them totally differently after having tried it myself. Suddenly you notice the stiffness of the persons stature, the unatural and uncomfortable need to hold your head perfectly still, and the fact that almost no one can successfully use it to do what almost everyone thinks it will do easily... look into the apex of turns.

And I would be dollars to donuts too that while reviews and videos will be out on the forums fast, most of them will be glowing regardless of how the tech really works in the long run. Let's be honest with ourselves here, GT5 could come out as a barely possible, half assed game with super pretty graphics and the forum would be thrashing with ooos and ahhhhhs overlooking even the most major of flaws and agreessively defending the game.

A lot of people just won't accept that it doesn't work right, they will be in denial, love it, say how great it is and post videos proving it. And again, not until you have tried it (or objectively listened to someone who didn't like it and think about what they say) will people realize it's flawed.

It's weird, often people will get in a state where it for some reason hurts their pride to admit something doesn't work well or isn't good so won't. Just look around, there are no shortage of people who won't accept/listen to/believe what I say, despite the fact I have actually used head tracking and used it quite a lot in the same manner it will be in GT5 because they don't want to. They have a vision in their head and what I say threatens that vision, so they won't accept what I am saying and will instead find reasons why I shouldn't be listened to. People will just lable me as hating when really all I am doing is saying I have seen the king, and really, he isn't wearing any clothes.


It's ok, we have all done it. It's called only hearing what you want to hear. It's the reason I have an Atari Jaguar sitting in a box in the garage :)
 
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Oh trust me, there will be people blindly dropping money on the pseye, mark my words on that.

I already went through it, there are plenty of videos of TrackIR in use out there, and I watched them all before working on my headtracking setup and not until I had tried it out myself did I know what to look for. There are plenty of reviews too which say it works great. Back in the day I actually contacted some of the people who gave some of those reviews and asked how they had gotten it to work well, the answer was always that it had been great when they tried it, then they reviewed it positively, but weeks or months later it fell by the wayside for the driving games. Only for flight sims did I find people consistently having good results. It was weird watching the TrackIR videos again, ones that had looked so awesome and had shown how easy it was to naturally make it so you could look around in the game world, only to suddenly see them totally differently after having tried it myself. Suddenly you notice the stiffness of the persons stature, the unatural and uncomfortable need to hold your head perfectly still, and the fact that almost no one can successfully use it to do what almost everyone thinks it will do easily... look into the apex of turns.

And I would be dollars to donuts too that while reviews and videos will be out on the forums fast, most of them will be glowing regardless of how the tech really works in the long run. Let's be honest with ourselves here, GT5 could come out as a barely possible, half assed game with super pretty graphics and the forum would be thrashing with ooos and ahhhhhs overlooking even the most major of flaws and agreessively defending the game.

A lot of people just won't accept that it doesn't work right, they will be in denial, love it, say how great it is and post videos proving it. And again, not until you have tried it (or objectively listened to someone who didn't like it and think about what they say) will people realize it's flawed.

It's weird, often people will get in a state where it for some reason hurts their pride to admit something doesn't work well or isn't good so won't. Just look around, there are no shortage of people who won't accept/listen to/believe what I say, despite the fact I have actually used head tracking and used it quite a lot in the same manner it will be in GT5 because they don't want to. They have a vision in their head and what I say threatens that vision, so they won't accept what I am saying and will instead find reasons why I shouldn't be listened to. People will just lable me as hating when really all I am doing is saying I have seen the king, and really, he isn't wearing any clothes.


It's ok, we have all done it. It's called only hearing what you want to hear. It's the reason I have an Atari Jaguar sitting in a box in the garage :)


Do you feel like this conversation is just going in circles or is it just me?. Again we here at GtPlanet are intelligent people and we all completely understand your opinion on head tracking in racing games. You are one person and I am sure I can find another person who has the same experience or more than you with the technology who enjoys it. I'm not saying either person is a liar or hardcore fanboy, I think that different people have different tastes and preferences and no two people are alike. At the end of the day, we get that you don't enjoy head tracking in racing games but please realize that someone else might and you shouldnt feel like you have to justify your own opinion in terms of who is right and who is wrong, nor should the other guy. Its simply a matter of preference.
 
It's weird, often people will get in a state where it for some reason hurts their pride to admit something doesn't work well or isn't good so won't... It's called only hearing what you want to hear.

It's called Post-Purchase Rationalization, which is a classic example of Cognative Dissonance. Basically it's our justification for dropping big bones on PS3+GT5+DLC+Wheel+PSEye+1080P TV, etc.

Buyer's Remorse is a bitch. :sly:
 
Do you feel like this conversation is just going in circles or is it just me?. Again we here at GtPlanet are intelligent people and we all completely understand your opinion on head tracking in racing games. You are one person and I am sure I can find another person who has the same experience or more than you with the technology who enjoys it. I'm not saying either person is a liar or hardcore fanboy, I think that different people have different tastes and preferences and no two people are alike. At the end of the day, we get that you don't enjoy head tracking in racing games but please realize that someone else might and you shouldnt feel like you have to justify your own opinion in terms of who is right and who is wrong, nor should the other guy. Its simply a matter of preference.

I don't see the circles, I just keep responding to what you ask or say... it's the same subject, but not circles.

It's called Post-Purchase Rationalization, which is a classic example of Cognative Dissonance. Basically it's our justification for dropping big bones on PS3+GT5+DLC+Wheel+PSEye+1080P TV, etc.

Buyer's Remorse is a bitch. :sly:

Isn't it though :D
 
It's called Post-Purchase Rationalization, which is a classic example of Cognative Dissonance. Basically it's our justification for dropping big bones on PS3+GT5+DLC+Wheel+PSEye+1080P TV, etc.

Buyer's Remorse is a bitch. :sly:
I only need the game and an updated wheel (Still rocking the classic GT Force), so no matter what no remorse from me.

As far as the headtracking goes. I've watched alot of videos on it last night, and I can say the technology is very interesting. Of course the demos they show has it working perfectly for the user, which may not translate back to you in your own home. I assume many factors can through it out of balance.

The great part is that it will be a Sony product (PS Eye) with Sony software (GT5). So everyone should have a similar experience. Of course distance and lighting may play unknown factors. But since no one has seen this in action using the PS eye, we really cant compare. Lets hope TGS brings us a working demo of it.
 
Its gonna make anonymous home made porn so much easier...

I'm sold!

You're right send us your picture ! :)

By the way this techno is much more accurate than just your position of your head. It can recognize you and your face expressions.
I wonder what could be the implementation of that in GT5.
 
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