- 1,230
Well, that's the only solution (keeping the display in front of your eyes) I can think of. I believe BMW Sauber F1 uses a simulator this way; they have a head mounted display, so I guess it works fine for them.
Got a better idea?
Head Tracking Confirmed for GT5!!!
- Thread starter turbomp301
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Well, that's the only solution (keeping the display in front of your eyes) I can think of. I believe BMW Sauber F1 uses a simulator this way; they have a head mounted display, so I guess it works fine for them.
Got a better idea?
- 665
- GTP_HAAS599
- your kiddin' right?
Here are the best video glasses I could find - http://www.i-glassesstore.com/ig-hrvpro.html
900.00 dollars with no HD is a tough sell. Would love to try them out though
900.00 dollars with no HD is a tough sell. Would love to try them out though
- 895
- RF_Stonemonkey
- 895
- RF_Stonemonkey
Here's a video showing how I reckon the GT5 headtracking will work to improve the 3D illusion instead of being some way of rotating the cockpit camera to look around. The video is using quite extreme positioning of 3D objects and extreme movement of the viewing camera so the effect in something like a driving game will be more subtle but still a great visual cue that the players brain will tie to the players own natural movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYrQozLPTSQ
We won't know what they've done until we actually get to see it in action but I honestly can't imagine PD would give us neck pain and disorientation while moving in strange ways to play the one of the PS3s flagship games, that really would be just a gimmick to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYrQozLPTSQ
We won't know what they've done until we actually get to see it in action but I honestly can't imagine PD would give us neck pain and disorientation while moving in strange ways to play the one of the PS3s flagship games, that really would be just a gimmick to me.
- 665
- GTP_HAAS599
- your kiddin' right?
great find there stonemonkey.
When the girl jumps out of the screen it reminded me of that horror movie The Ring.
When the girl jumps out of the screen it reminded me of that horror movie The Ring.
- 4,323
I was guessing this because it's how head tracking is most commonly used in racing games and because from the list KY confirmed was accurate we have this:
the movement of Cockpit Camera interface (confirmed in full 3-D. The camera can be fully manipulated and you can opt to have your head tracked by the PSEye)
Not the clearest thing ever but certainly seems to hint that move your view around the cockpit in full 3d TRACKIR style.
Well, that's the only solution (keeping the display in front of your eyes) I can think of. I believe BMW Sauber F1 uses a simulator this way; they have a head mounted display, so I guess it works fine for them.
Got a better idea?
Wrap your head in a bunch of monitors? Or one big curvey monitor?
No reason it coudln't be, but it doesn't really make sense to as a bumper cam would realistically be mounted to the bumper no? Could you control the view of the bumper cam in previous GTs?
It could have that, and that would be the least intrusive, but also the least useful I would think... I noted that from any significant distance it's gonig to result in very little effect unless you actually get up and move your head around and it will involve holding your head pretty stationar in a way I think would become strenuous after a while to avoid interference from POV shifts.
- 1,230
Wrap your head in a bunch of monitors? Or one big curvey monitor?
Appealing option. Though it'll be hard to explain to my future kids why they can't go to college unless they write the best damn paper on how to solve the world's problems overnight.
- 895
- RF_Stonemonkey
You won't have to hold your head stationary, the whole idea of that type of tracking is that your own natural movement is what gives the effect although there will be a head location to be looking straight on but I think you'd find that naturally without even thinking about it and it won't need to be held exact. As for it's usefulness, I think the results in that video I posted are quite stunning so it's very useful for enhancing the illusion of a 3D world, also if you play in the cockpit view in gt5p the mirrors are half on the screen and it wouldn't take much movement to bring the whole mirror into view. You're right in that it's effectiveness will diminish if you're further from the screen but it may be particularly good for those that are closer, maybe with a seat/wheel setup and it could work well with a multiscreen setup too. That brings me to another point, if you have a steering wheel set up in front of your screen it's gonna be a bit odd to be looking out the passenger window with the steering wheel in front of you.
- 4,323
You don't have to hold your head pinpoint steady like you do with TRACKIR stuff, but if you let your head bobble much at all (as is normal for most people during a gaming session although you don't notice it if you don't really think about it) it can easily result in weird point of view issues that mess with your steering. I think for most people what you will find is that it's a cool gimmick up front, but it won't be long before you find yourself turning it off becuase you are subconciously holding your head still and it becomes a strain or a chore.
Again I will say that since we are missing the bodies ability to sense momentum and direction of movement, our eyes have to make up for it and a locked POV allows us to detect fine changes in relative angle of movement more esaily and overcome that. When the point of view is not locked it can become a hinderance.
Also the effect you see in the wii head tracking video and the link you posted is stunning... but a large part of that is because you are seeing the demonstration on a 2d display.
To get this level of illusion you have to keep one eye closed in real life or else your stereoscopic vision still tells you that yes there is an illusion going on in front of me, but I can still tell it's all on a flat screen.
There are some flash head tracking demos out there (google) that let you try a simple version of this in real life. I think that you will find that the stunning effect of 3dness from the demo videos is not near what you get with both eyes open. And IRL even with one eye open only it's not quite as stunning.
This is all assuming there is some way that it will be calibrated appropriately as the illusion is only effective if the POV in game shifts 1:1 with your POV in real life. If the shift is different it totally throws off the illusion.
- 895
- RF_Stonemonkey
I would have to disagree with most of that. Yes, callibration would be important although if it was less than 1:1 tracking it would only go towards being how you see the screen normally anyway so that wouldn't be much of a problem, just the effect would diminish, if it's more than 1:1 then you have a problem but I'm sure there'll be some sort of callibration setup whatever system is used.
Say you are driving (in real life) some sort of strange armoured vehicle that has a rectangular window to look out, your head can bobble about all it wants but you don't lose your pov and as an extreme you could stand up and to the side so you're looking down at the kerb through the window and you still don't lose your orientation, however, if the view you can see through the window was to rotate with slight rotations or movements of your head you'd be all over the place.
I know that it's still an image drawn on a flat screen but it's still an additional visual cue and if it was to be combined with something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDFqn5aM6mw
The effect would be unbeatable on a single fixed display system.
When playing racing games I use the mirrors, never use the side views and rarely use the rear view, to me the trackIR/rfactor system would be pretty useless and as far as I can see would be more of a hindrance than anything else.
That's just my opinion and if it does turn out to be like the trackIR system then I doubt that I'd make any use of it at all.
- 4,323
Well the reason I brought up 1:1 is that the illusion must be done properly. When you move your head, if the change in view on screen doesn't seem accurate for the distance the object is supposed to be, it will not have the "window" effect as much as it will just a moving POV in the game. Hard to explain, but basically like almost any illusion, if it's not spot on, it's going to be more noteable that it's not spot on than anything else.
As for looking on the window, as I mentioned before, in real life you have momentum helping you out. In games it's a double whammy becuase you don't have it AND you are relying on things like comparing small differences in relative location to make up for it. So moving POV often gives more of a "floating, what is happening I am drunk" kind of feeling more than it simulates what happens in real life when moving around.
Well I think a lot of people are expecting to use it even for the mirrors (of which usually only one is visible in cockpit view without rotating POV).
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- 895
- RF_Stonemonkey
Take as an example travelling along a straight road and when you're straight on with the screen you're looking straight ahead, with the johnny lee system if you stand up and to the side of the screen you can see the kerb at the side of the road but everything is still moving in the same line perpendicular to the screen and will no matter where you look from which is what your brain expects naturally. With trackIR, you turn your head slightly but with your eyes still looking forward and you see the side of the track going past sideways, no continuity of illusion of momentum there.
- 665
- GTP_HAAS599
- your kiddin' right?
Just bumping this thread so nobody creates a new one on the subject tonight.
Im really hoping we learn more details about this tonight and maybe see it in action.
Im really hoping we learn more details about this tonight and maybe see it in action.
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- 4,323
Actually when you stand up and move to the side, the vanishing point of moving straight ahead actually moves off to the left of the screen (assuming you are leaning left).
Watch the lee video, you will notice that head on looking down that tunnel there is a center point. This would be the straight ahead vanishing point, as he leans either way, that point shifts the same way. The result in a driving game would be that the road that looked like it was running straight into the middle of your TV set will now run off to one side somewhere at an angle and no longer be straight ahead. Also the distance between a given A pillar and say the curb will change as your perspective changes. These are all things our brains use to get over the missing momentum information while driving in a game.
I see the mistake you are making, just think it through really carefully and you will see where you are misjuding.
Here is an example. First picture is straight ahead centered. Second picture is leaning way to the left.
It's oviously a very rough sketch, but the idea is that as you move around, a lot changes including things like how the center line of the car lines up with the center line of the road and how the fenders line up with the edge of the road.
On a long straight, this would not be too bad really, but try this in the middle of a curve, especially a dynamic radius curve while driving with a wheel... it gets in the way. Certainly nothing like TRACKIR style, but it does and also note that it gives you the ability to see to the sides quite a bit in the distance, but the closer you get, the less you can effectively change what you can see. For example a car nose to nose (next to you) with you would probably not be possible to see without getting almost completely to the side of the TV.
BTW in case it's not clear (because it's a crappy paint picture) the road is the road, the dark blue is the hood and the light blue is the center line of the hood.
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- 814
- Goes_To_11 GTP_GoesTo11
So am I. I don't trust the translations. It could be something as simple as using the right analog joystick to look around the cockpit and have nothing to do with motion tracking. I really hope it is a TrackIR type of system.
- 895
- RF_Stonemonkey
Actually when you stand up and move to the side, the vanishing point of moving straight ahead actually moves off to the left of the screen (assuming you are leaning right).
Watch the lee video, you will notice that head on looking down that tunnel there is a center point. This would be the straight ahead vanishing point, as he leans either way, that point shifts the opposite way. The result in a driving game would be that the road that looked like it was running straight into the middle of your TV set will now run off to one side somewhere at an angle and no longer be straight ahead. Also the distance between a given A pillar and say the curb will change as your perspective changes. These are all things our brains use to get over the missing momentum information while driving in a game.
I see the mistake you are making, just think it through really carefully and you will see where you are misjuding.
Here is an example. First picture is straight ahead centered. Second picture is leaning way to the left.
It's oviously a very rough sketch, but the idea is that as you move around, a lot changes including things like how the center line of the car lines up with the center line of the road and how the fenders line up with the edge of the road.
I don't think I'm making any mistake, I meant that the 3d world is still moving perpendicular to the screen, if you move it still will but you are no longer looking at the screen straight on but the motion on the screen will still show the straight on movement so yes, the vanishing point can be offscreen if you move far enough.
- 895
- RF_Stonemonkey
- 4,323
I think we must be missunderstanding each other, but in case not, here is a redo of that picture. The red arrow shows the direction of the road traveling towards the screen. It is only perpendicular when viewed straight on. From any other vantage point it starts moving towards the scren at an angle.
Again in a straight line, this change is not too bad, but when shifting back and forth through a turn or an ess it is much more pronounced.
It is, quite.
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- 895
- RF_Stonemonkey
I think we must be missunderstanding each other, but in case not, here is a redo of that picture. The red arrow shows the direction of the road traveling towards the screen. It is only perpendicular when viewed straight on. From any other vantage point it starts moving towards the scren at an angle.
Again in a straight line, this change is not too bad, but when shifting back and forth through a turn or an ess it is much more pronounced.
It is, quite.
Your pictures are showing what's on the screen but remember you are no longer looking at the screen straight on. If you're in some vehicle with only a rectangular window to look out of, you can look out it from any angle and as long you can see some fixed objects/scenery whether that's at the side of the road or ahead of you or wherever you can tell the direction of travel and that apparent direction of travel doesn't change even when you move to look out the window at a different angle.
- 665
- GTP_HAAS599
- your kiddin' right?
- 665
- GTP_HAAS599
- your kiddin' right?
- 4,323
Maybe we are thinking of different things?
As I said before yes you can do the judgement based on vision alone, but without the momentum, you must rely muc more on visual queues such as relationship between two objects (notice the hood and center line are not in teh same relation to the road in one of the pictures).
Also remember that I am talking during a turn, as I said, on a straight, it's not a big deal, but during a turn, you have to calculate the the directino of travel constantly and amlmost immediately and adjust your steering input accordingly. THIS is what makes it hard without some kind of momentum to go off of. It's much LESS unnatural than the TRACKIR method, but it is still difficult because of the fact that the input method you are relying on heavily to replace momentum no longer has static and fixed points to reference, the reference points now change dynamically and you have to figure out how much they changed AND act on it at the same time.
I don't know how I can really explain it to you better as it's an easy concept to miss but very hard to detail. All I can say is to tinker with the right stick while cornering and experience the TRACKIR type of dissorientation, while different it might help you better understand what I am talking about.
sorry for double post, I tried to put it all in one and screwed it up even worse...
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- 4,323
This from the guy who, after a thread go locked, couldn't respond so had to PM me one last post because he just couldn't let it go? Ok turbo
👍- 665
- GTP_HAAS599
- your kiddin' right?
Maybe we are thinking of different things?
As I said before yes you can do the judgement based on vision alone, but without the momentum, you must rely muc more on visual queues such as relationship between two objects (notice the hood and center line are not in teh same relation to the road in one of the pictures).
Also remember that I am talking during a turn, as I said, on a straight, it's not a big deal, but during a turn, you have to calculate the the directino of travel constantly and amlmost immediately and adjust your steering input accordingly. THIS is what makes it hard without some kind of momentum to go off of. It's much LESS unnatural than the TRACKIR method, but it is still difficult because of the fact that the input method you are relying on heavily to replace momentum no longer has static and fixed points to reference, the reference points now change dynamically and you have to figure out how much they changed AND act on it at the same time.
I don't know how I can really explain it to you better as it's an easy concept to miss but very hard to detail. All I can say is to tinker with the right stick while cornering and experience the TRACKIR type of dissorientation, while different it might help you better understand what I am talking about
This from the guy who, after a thread go locked, couldn't respond so had to PM me one last post because he just couldn't let it go? Ok turbo
I had wrote all that might well send it
- 895
- RF_Stonemonkey
Me too, but I can't imagine how the trackIR/rfactor thing could be done well enough that it's not something that players would try once and never again and I can't imagine that KY,PD or Sony would think about putting something that players think that about into their flagship game. Perhaps they have come up with something along those lines but I seriously doubt it. Whatever they've done though, I'm fairly optimistic.
- 4,323
Maybe we are all wrong and they have somehow thought of something totally new that works really well... I have to say the chances seem slim to me, but anythings possible!
- 814
- Goes_To_11 GTP_GoesTo11
I'd much rather be able to turn my head to shoulder check than press a button. It sounds like it would be particularly good for looking at the rearview mirror. From what I remember in cockpit view, you often didn't even see the full mirror.
- 665
- GTP_HAAS599
- your kiddin' right?
