- 5,303
- Riverside, Ca
- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
Look into Matras. Those should be interesting 
HFS's car thread | Nearly-5000-miles update
- Thread starter homeforsummer
- 833 comments
- 107,396 views
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
Funnily enough I did consider a Murena for a bit, but I've actually gone off the styling recently. And any other Matra is like hen's teeth right now.
- 5,303
- Riverside, Ca
- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
What about Peugeot 505 turbo? any of those around? It is last RWD Peugeot made..
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
Very rare indeed here. A really nice 505 came up not so long ago (a GTI, I think) but wasn't in a position to buy. Not that bothered about it being rear-drive but the styling on 505s is fantastic. Very elegant car.
Current French car of choice is the Citroen BX, actually. Last of the quirky Citroens before they had their dull 1990s and early 2000s spell, but according to pretty much everything I can find on the internet they're much more reliable than people given them credit for. Designed by Gandini, the same bloke who did the Countach. Not hard to see the link either.
Could be a good interim car between having nothing and finding something else cool further down the line. I'm fortunate to be in a position right now where I can afford something cheap to run around in and buy something cool if it comes up too. Though my desire to buy something cheap ebbs and flows depending on how many press cars I have lined up on the horizon! At the moment that number is zero and I have a busy few months ahead, so a runaround is looking tempting.
Current French car of choice is the Citroen BX, actually. Last of the quirky Citroens before they had their dull 1990s and early 2000s spell, but according to pretty much everything I can find on the internet they're much more reliable than people given them credit for. Designed by Gandini, the same bloke who did the Countach. Not hard to see the link either.
Could be a good interim car between having nothing and finding something else cool further down the line. I'm fortunate to be in a position right now where I can afford something cheap to run around in and buy something cool if it comes up too. Though my desire to buy something cheap ebbs and flows depending on how many press cars I have lined up on the horizon! At the moment that number is zero and I have a busy few months ahead, so a runaround is looking tempting.
- 5,303
- Riverside, Ca
- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
Hmmm.. 405 MI16 4x4 maybe?
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
Rare as rocking horse poo.
I might have changed my mind anyway, for the moment. Saab 96 is still a very real possibility but all the ones for sale in the UK at the moment are too expensive.
Current thoughts are turning to a cheap daily driver and a more considered, longer-term look at other possible options. Which is sort of what I said above but I'm giving the idea more serious thought now. I'm not in a mega rush to buy something and I've made the mistake of rushing into buying cars before and regretting it, so I'm going to be much more careful this time. If it ain't perfect, it ain't getting bought.
Also, I'm thinking of ways in which I might be able to get an old 105-series Alfa Giulia GT, before they spiral out of my price range forever. They've effectively doubled in price in the last decade and if they keep rising at a similar rate I'll never get one. But that plan requires a lot more thought.
I might have changed my mind anyway, for the moment. Saab 96 is still a very real possibility but all the ones for sale in the UK at the moment are too expensive.
Current thoughts are turning to a cheap daily driver and a more considered, longer-term look at other possible options. Which is sort of what I said above but I'm giving the idea more serious thought now. I'm not in a mega rush to buy something and I've made the mistake of rushing into buying cars before and regretting it, so I'm going to be much more careful this time. If it ain't perfect, it ain't getting bought.
Also, I'm thinking of ways in which I might be able to get an old 105-series Alfa Giulia GT, before they spiral out of my price range forever. They've effectively doubled in price in the last decade and if they keep rising at a similar rate I'll never get one. But that plan requires a lot more thought.
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
I've given them a look, and I've got more magazines with features and buying guides of them than I'd care to count.
The main issue isn't so much the car itself, but deciding whether I want to borrow money to buy one - as returns on investment go they're actually fairly good given the near-certainty that it'll go up in value*, but it just depends whether I can be bothered to go through the loan thing again. Not a problem financially, but I do prefer to spend my own money on things to reduce the risk. Realistically, the only way for me to afford one in the near future is a loan though.
* Not that making a buck is my main intention - I've wanted to own once since forever
ExigeEvan
Premium
- 17,192
To anyone else in your position I would say loan the money because you should be able to afford a more reliable and more economical car for that money.
However, as you're looking to put it towards a classic Alfa, that doesn't hold water. I think it will go up in value, but that may only cover the purchase cost, and not the maintenance and running costs.
However, as you're looking to put it towards a classic Alfa, that doesn't hold water. I think it will go up in value, but that may only cover the purchase cost, and not the maintenance and running costs.
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
That would be at least partly offset by it not being a daily driver - that's what press cars are for - and by selecting the right one in the first place. For something of that sort of value, I'd fully intend to get it inspected front to back by a professional before buying. It's worth noting that they're fairly solid cars in general - mechanically not a lot goes wrong, so it's only rust (mitigated by picking a good'un) and electrics (shock!) that would require careful consideration. Tax isn't applicable (too old) and fuel is largely irrelevant (too few miles). Classic insurance is chuff-all.
The real unknown is just how much it'll rise. Alfas are pretty steady at the moment - a few years back you could get an Alfasud for a grand, now they're all £3k+. GTV6s are now where 105s used to be, and 105s have rocketed.
I'm not trying to justify it in my mind (or to anyone here), I'm just saying that's what I'd do in that situation. I'm a good while from deciding whether I want to do that or not, and in no rush to buy anything. Cheap runaround comes first, but I'll be keeping my eye on the market as it'd be a shame to miss my chance to own something like that.
- 5,303
- Riverside, Ca
- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
is 156 entirely out of question?
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
Not really, particularly if I'm looking in the meantime for a general runaround. 156s are getting to the stage now where they're so cheap that many will be bought and driven into the ground as bangers, so I do have an urge to get a nice one and keep it that way before they're all ruined. I'd say a 156 is a likelihood for finding something to knock about in while I've not got any press vehicles. Honda Civics and E36 BMWs are also getting looked at.
However, like anything else fairly modern it doesn't hit the spot as much for my desire to get something a bit interesting and unique. Classics > moderns in that respect.
- 31,714
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
Can I please steer your mind away from quirky Citroëns? Yes they are cool and awesome. Engine and electronics are decent. But I will tell you now that you will spend your weekends finding out where that green oil comes from. Unless you can find one with a completely overhauled hydraulics system, just stay away from them. Moneypits.
Go Alfa. Go Saab. No go Citroën.
Go Alfa. Go Saab. No go Citroën.
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
So, this happened:
More pics to follow...
More pics to follow...
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- 27,219
- United Kingdom
Heh. Looking forward to that first trip reset. I did note that at 40-50 mph speeds the insta-mpg thing was sitting well north of 100 mpg...
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
Nope, it's surprisingly civil. Has aircon, leccy windows, leccy mirrors. Mine even has an original accessory stereo system with an extra couple of large speakers right behind the seats. Other than that though it's fairly uncomplicated - pair of nice (comfy) cloth seats, a set of digital dials and a refreshingly button-free steering wheel.
- 5,198
- UK
- marunda/GTP_FordMKIVJ5
Love the first generation Insights. 👍
5 speed or CVT?
5 speed or CVT?
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
5-speed. CVTs were never officially sold here so any you'll have seen are imports. It's a nice gearbox to use but the ratios are very long, so only the first three gears are any real use for acceleration. Second goes to almost 70 mph so you could feasibly use it on the motorway after you've been slowed down in traffic!
A quick snap from today:
Have hidden the plate as the current one is going back to the previous owner after all the V5-related stuff is sorted.
A quick snap from today:
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- 12,901
- Cambridge
- Moglet85
- Moglet
Cue following mpg figures to make me feel very upset about my current 26mpg average.
At least you've got some power behind you, I'm currently averaging 27.1 in a car that won't do 0-60 in under 10 seconds
Nice Insight BTW, I've never been a fan of the styling of them but I do sort of like the idea of a car that's entirely function, very little 'styling'.
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
I'm actually quite a fan of the styling - ever since the thing came out it's immediately been the next-generation CRX for me, and of course that's continued with the CRZ too.
But yeah, it's heavy on the engineering. The previous owner included a copy of the original press release with the car, it's amazing the sort of stuff Honda did to push the economy as far as possible. Engine is the world's lightest production 3-cylinder, the electric motor is only a couple of inches thick and weighs some ridiculously low amount. Engine internals are ultra-lightweight with lessons learned from the NSX and S2000. Goes into a lean burn mode when the engine is warm and you're on a light throttle - economy immediately jumps from say, 70-odd to well over 100.
Finding I'm in esteemed company with the car too. I know ex-Evo Harry Metcalfe used to own one, as does a chap from Octane magazine. Jonny Smith from 5th gear does (I actually went to look at a car for him last year while he was hunting), the design engineer for Thrust SSC apparently has two of them, and I believe Gordon Murray dabbled with one for a while too.
But yeah, it's heavy on the engineering. The previous owner included a copy of the original press release with the car, it's amazing the sort of stuff Honda did to push the economy as far as possible. Engine is the world's lightest production 3-cylinder, the electric motor is only a couple of inches thick and weighs some ridiculously low amount. Engine internals are ultra-lightweight with lessons learned from the NSX and S2000. Goes into a lean burn mode when the engine is warm and you're on a light throttle - economy immediately jumps from say, 70-odd to well over 100.
Finding I'm in esteemed company with the car too. I know ex-Evo Harry Metcalfe used to own one, as does a chap from Octane magazine. Jonny Smith from 5th gear does (I actually went to look at a car for him last year while he was hunting), the design engineer for Thrust SSC apparently has two of them, and I believe Gordon Murray dabbled with one for a while too.
- 12,901
- Cambridge
- Moglet85
- Moglet
It's definitely an incredible bit of engineering, and the results are clear to see. I remember reading about Harry Metcalfe's one when he wrote an article on his entire garage and how much it cost him to insure it all. He's got a nice variety of cars!
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
With two seats I'm not sure it would really fulfill our practicality requirements!So that's one of the two cars sorted for Le Mans
Yeah, he certainly has an impressive garage, though he's long since sold the Insight. The guy from Octane was on 170k miles or so last time I saw him writing about it, and undergoing its first battery change. The batteries seem to last a while and the cars themselves pretty much indefinitely - there are a few online cruising past half a million miles.
I'm just going to be methodical with mine for now - it's got a few little things that need sorting out (headlights have yellowed, there's a few rattles I want to get to the bottom of, the trip computer button doesn't work etc) but other than that it's now my main mode of transport when press vehicles aren't forthcoming. Should get a few nice long runs through the course of the year.
- 24,016
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
Looks good 👍 can't recall the last time i saw one on the road.
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
I suspect most passers-by would say the same - it's certainly getting quite a few looks. I think I've only ever seen them parked up in car parks myself. Think there's only 200 or so on UK roads.
Yeah, I've seen people getting 100-150 mpg out of them with tweaks, but to be honest I'm not really into the modding side of it. If I can average in the 70s and 80s I'll be fairly happy, and if the day eventually comes that the battery needs replacing there are options out there to improve it with greater capacity and higher output, which apparently help the economy as they can assist more and for longer.
As for the aero side of things, there's certainly very little wind noise with the shape, and little engine noise. Main din is from the tyres, which I think is a mix of the hard compound, and lack of sound deadening to save weight.
It's a nice car to cruise down the road in though. Seating position is sports-car low, but the cabin feels really spacious despite it only having two seats. Loads of space in the footwell, seats are really comfortable, and the steering wheel is a little offset but not noticeably. I've not actually checked if it adjusts for rake or reach because the driving position is pretty much perfect for me as it is. All you really need is a comfortable seat and enough space for your legs and head...
- 5,198
- UK
- marunda/GTP_FordMKIVJ5
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
I expect they developed both as a matter of course, but in the UK it would have probably pushed the price up even further - they were £17k or so brand new.
In the US the CVT was the one to have in California as it lacks lean burn, which means lower NOx emissions, which meant a SULEV (super-ultra low emission vehicle) rating in the state. The manual has lean burn, with higher NOx, which meant a ULEV rating and I believe, a different high-occupancy vehicle lane rating as a result. All very complicated.
A more interesting fact about the CVT is that a few years ago a team built a rally car out of the Insight which proved pretty dominant in the 1-litre class of whatever UK series it was in. They actually used CVT rather than manual, since the manual's gear ratios are so long that on tight rally courses it was harder to keep the car in the power band. After a year it was banned because it kept thrashing everything else in the class...
In the US the CVT was the one to have in California as it lacks lean burn, which means lower NOx emissions, which meant a SULEV (super-ultra low emission vehicle) rating in the state. The manual has lean burn, with higher NOx, which meant a ULEV rating and I believe, a different high-occupancy vehicle lane rating as a result. All very complicated.
A more interesting fact about the CVT is that a few years ago a team built a rally car out of the Insight which proved pretty dominant in the 1-litre class of whatever UK series it was in. They actually used CVT rather than manual, since the manual's gear ratios are so long that on tight rally courses it was harder to keep the car in the power band. After a year it was banned because it kept thrashing everything else in the class...
