Honda Fan Club - under new management

  • Thread starter THE ED3
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Thusly supa-boosted S2000s. Unless the F is different from the F. But algebra tells me that's ridiculous.
 
The accord/prelude F is different than the s2k F. Its like how the prelude B is different than the civic/integra B. Its just not the same.
 
They may be heavy, but the H22 atleast packed enough torque to get things moving, especially up hills. Plus they were pretty high revving for a some what large 4 banger.
 
I have exhaust questions guys. I want a performance exhaust. But I don't want a muffler.

My idea is this: 4-2-1 DC ceramic-coated header. Decent start, eh? Then a testpipe. I'll figure out the sizes on that later. But after the test pipe I want to go custom. On KTeller they sell resonators. I want one. I'd put the resonator in basically the stock location, and connect the testpipe and resonator with 2.25 inch stainless pipe, and running that to the back as well. Mandrel bends.

So my questions are 1) Do you guys think it's a good idea?, and 2) Is exhaust more complicated than I think, therefore meaning I should get a "tuned" catback from a good company?

EDIT: I could get a Buddy Club catback for $440. Tax and shipping included lol.
 
You can buy performance mufflers that aren't fart cans, but if its the noise you're worried about, I can tell you from experience that headers really bring that exhaust note up, especially with a cat back system. Keeping a resonator (especially if your car came with one) will help keep the noise down, but under WOT, you will still get more noise from the tail pipe.

But, to answer your questions...

1. Yes, its a great idea, and its one you'll wonder why you never did sooner after its completed.

2. It is and it isn't. It will be if you are going to attempt all the bending yourself, especially if its your first time. If you plan on doing it all yourself, then a pre made exhaust may be the way to go as it will be a direct bolt on, and the extra money you spend on the part (compared to all the seperate components) will be balanced out when you don't have to pay for labor at a shop.

And when its all done, you can stand back and look at the finished product...
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airshowweekend020mm6.jpg

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Stillen dual exhaust FTW! :sly:

*Thanks to Sp33 (you sexy bastard you) for editing the third picture
 
I must point out that the car will be much louder than you may think and your plan will hurt low end torque a lot. If you're hell bent on going without a muffler I suggest at least two resonators and large ones at that.

You actually need back pressure. The exhaust is somewhat complicated if you really get into it. Since your car is non turbo I'd suggest not going with those exact plans.

I have a vid of my hatch running just a cat and resonator and dumping just in front of the pass side rear wheel. It sounds good up top but way to loud for city driving.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqGUAs1hl58
 
Time_Attack
I must point out that the car will be much louder than you may think and your plan will hurt low end torque a lot. If you're hell bent on going without a muffler I suggest at least two resonators and large ones at that.

You actually need back pressure. The exhaust is somewhat complicated if you really get into it. Since your car is non turbo I'd suggest not going with those exact plans.

I have a vid of my hatch running just a cat and resonator and dumping just in front of the pass side rear wheel. It sounds good up top but way to loud for city driving.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqGUAs1hl58
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Back pressure is pointless for any reasons other than making an exhuast quieter.
 
Time_Attack
not true.
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Very true. The only reason an exhaust with no back pressure is worse, is when your engine isn't tuned to make up for the extra flow. In that case, it's your fault, not the exhausts.


So no, backpressure isn't good.



EDIT #3: I took out the other examples, they weren't very good and the others should be enough.



EDIT: Here's a more reliable source.
Sport Compact Car
Exhaust backpressure is the enemy of the internal combustion engine. Reducing it makes it easier for exhaust gases to exit the combustion chamber, which reduces the amount of work the engine has to do to shove it out (pumping losses if you're an engineer). Less backpressure also means less leftover exhaust diluting the next intake charge, which means more gas, more oxygen and less heat. All of this means more power.
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EDIT #2:Another good article on backpressure. http://www.hondacivicforum.com/m_39893/tm.htm
 
Thing is a lot of us don't have the built engine to deal with a lack of back pressure. If you're building a turbo engine or a high comp race motor go for it. I think most of us would be more likely to have lower comp street motors with mild cams thus the need for some back pressure.

also, I never said increase it. Engines are nothing but air pumps and in order to make power you must pump air in an out as fast as you can. With no back pressure the exhaust gas doesn't flow as well. In some cases, the spent gases enter the combustion chamber again. To see why you need it go unbolt your exhaust. Only in the upper RPM range with all that extra flow will there be power.
 
Time_Attack
Thing is a lot of us don't have the built engine to deal with a lack of back pressure. If you're building a turbo engine or a high comp race motor go for it. I think most of us would be more likely to have lower comp street motors with mild cams thus the need for some back pressure.

also, I never said increase it. Engines are nothing but air pumps and in order to make power you must pump air in an out as fast as you can. With no back pressure the exhaust gas doesn't flow as well. In some cases, the spent gases enter the combustion chamber again. To see why you need it go unbolt your exhaust. Only in the upper RPM range with all that extra flow will there be power.
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You don't need a built engine, you just need a correct air fuel mixture. Disconnecting your battery for 15 min or so then reconnecting it and driving your car around will reset the ecu, which will make it have to relearn the air/fuel mixture, at least on hondas. I'm pretty sure that should be enough to take care of the problem.

Time Attack
With no back pressure the exhaust gas doesn't flow as well. In some cases, the spent gases enter the combustion chamber again.
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That is what happens in an extreme case of back pressure, which is why you don't want it. Read the article I posted from the honda forums, it directly talks about what you just posted, and why it's wrong. You have back pressure mixed up with velocity.

I never said that you said to increase back pressure, I'm just replying to the part in your original post where you said "You actually need back pressure"
 
Time_Attack
That wont correct flow issues or lack there of not to mention how if you can't burn more air/fuel at the given rpm whats the point.
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Flow issues are backpressure.

Dictionary.com
back·pres·sure /ˈbækˌprɛʃ
thinsp.png
ər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[bak-presh-er] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun a resistant pressure exerted by liquid or gas against the forward motion or flow of an exhaust or pipe system: Careful control of backpressure ensures an even supply of oil from the well.

back·pres·sure
premium.gif
(bāk'prěsh'ər) Pronunciation Key
n. Residual pressure opposing the free flow of a gas or liquid, as in a pipe or an exhaust system.
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The lack of flow is backpressure, resistance in the exhaust system.


EDIT: Another good article if those don't convince you. (thanks for the link Race Idiot) http://www.miata.net/garage/KnowYourCar/S4_Back.html
 
Time_Attack
So explain to me how you loose power in the lower RPM range when you lessen back pressure.
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That would be a result of the exhaust design, not a direct effect of reducing backpressure. You would lose power because of the design, not because you lost backpressure.

Like in the link that I posted, that's how they believe the misconception started. Someone bought a huge exhuast and lost power, then thought "This exhuast has less backpressure, and I lost power, so backpressure = power loss." Which isn't true.


Besides, when you are racing, you are going to be in high rpms at all times. If your car makes power only at high rpms, you should drive in a way to keep it there. Don't blame the car, blame the driver.
 
Lead Boy


Besides, when you are racing, you are going to be in high rpms at all times. If your car makes power only at high rpms, you should drive in a way to keep it there. Don't blame the car, blame the driver.
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Yeah thats true of a racing car. but I drive my car to work and try and shift under 3000 rather than taking it to its 7600rpm cut off. In order to have a wide torque range you need a well designed intake and exhaust system to maintain even flow over the widest range possible.
 
Time_Attack
Yeah thats true of a racing car. but I drive my car to work and try and shift under 3000 rather than taking it to its 7600rpm cut off. In order to have a wide torque range you need a well designed intake and exhaust system to maintain even flow over the widest range possible.
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You own a Honda. You might as well give up on low end torque. You won't have any unless you go for forced induction.
 
Lead Boy
You own a Honda. You might as well give up on low end torque. You won't have any unless you go for forced induction.
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I've got plenty of torque, and I own a Honda.

He's got a low displacement, unmodified (for the most part), SOHC Honda. That's why he's lacking torque.
 
Low displacement in general. But you don't need a ton of torque when the car only weighs 2500 pounds. Hence the high rpm, high power engine...

Anyway, do any of you know anything about the Buddy Club cat-back? And do you think I should get the header and testpipe first or the cat-back first? Believe me, I'll have trouble saving to get all three at the same time. :lol:
 

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