- 40,816
AFR = duh, power.
How about touchscreens in cars
- Thread starter GattigerPlay
- 290 comments
- 10,197 views
ITCC_Andrew
(Banned)
- 18,532
- Kitchener
Um, no? CELs are rather obvious. In my case, the CELs I've had have all led me to find various small faults; a gas cap, and a throttle body.
What I enjoy is fixing suspension, brakes and tires; making a car a silent, good-handling, fun, safe and reliable car. I enjoy wiring, but I do not enjoy touch screens or circuitry or anything.
I just don't like touch screens, in much the same way some people don't like chickpeas. I'll make myself falafel, knowing that it's a wonderful, tasty and healthy food, and some people just won't like it. Preference is preference.
- 40,816
I have $3500 in service records from the previous owner of my car that says no, they really aren't.
Joel
Premium
- 8,141
- Halifax, NS
- Noob616
Today I learned that Southern Ontario is just outside the Arctic circle. Except for part where it's the southernmost point in Canada. And one of the warmest. And least snowy. With the most mild winters outside of BC. And the only place in Canada with Carolinian forest.
Basically the Arctic circle. I bought locally grown cherries today.
I also learned that I have to stop at the Quebec border. C'est la vie.
Basically the Arctic circle. I bought locally grown cherries today.
I also learned that I have to stop at the Quebec border. C'est la vie.
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ITCC_Andrew
(Banned)
- 18,532
- Kitchener
- 17,865
- 509
Well, you're lack of experience is clearly showing. The number of CEL's I've seen tossing codes like "02 censor 3" when its a problem on the INTAKE side of the engine is pretty amusing.
Dat oxymoron.
Oh yeah, I had forgot about your "OMG BLACKBERRY FOR LIFE BECAUSE KEYBOARD" rants.
Also, good job sliding in commentary on how amazing you think you are.
ITCC_Andrew
(Banned)
- 18,532
- Kitchener
- 17,865
- 509
What? Huh?
Honestly, the way you manage to miss points entirely is so amazing we should give a GTP award in your honor for missing the point.
The point is the CEL was throwing a code related to the exhaust system when the issue was with the intake side of things. Honestly, dude, it isn't that hard to draw the parallels to your complaints on technology being "bad." But it seems you enjoy being White&Nerdy's liberal counterpart.
ITCC_Andrew
(Banned)
- 18,532
- Kitchener
If the AIR is not going in (intake) right, it's not going to come out (exhaust) right. It won't be measured correctly.
Quickly using live data (available on the same scan tool you use to check the codes) like AFR (an extraordinarily useful feature!!) will tell you that the air's not going in right. It will tell you that there's a problem on the intake side, too.
So, obviously, then, my point is entirely valid. The information would be nice to have, so then it would be an excellent feature for someone like me. I'll wait until the prices for cars equipped with this crap drop, and then maybe like it then. But, for now, no one has a compelling argument except @ildd (back-up cameras).
However, the back-up cameras can be small and well-disguised, as I would prefer that.
Quickly using live data (available on the same scan tool you use to check the codes) like AFR (an extraordinarily useful feature!!) will tell you that the air's not going in right. It will tell you that there's a problem on the intake side, too.
So, obviously, then, my point is entirely valid. The information would be nice to have, so then it would be an excellent feature for someone like me. I'll wait until the prices for cars equipped with this crap drop, and then maybe like it then. But, for now, no one has a compelling argument except @ildd (back-up cameras).
However, the back-up cameras can be small and well-disguised, as I would prefer that.
Korza
Premium
- 3,787
- Christchurch, NZ
- kamikazi493
The AFR will tell you the ratio of fuel to air. Its not going to tell you anything else.
You haven't got a clue what you're doing. You've changed a few tires and tinkered with a few cars, that doesn't make you a pro-tuner/mechanic.
ITCC_Andrew
(Banned)
- 18,532
- Kitchener
If something's funny with the amount of air going in, and the car is running rich, you may be able to find out the problem from there.
Amateur mistake: Checking only the codes. Replacing parts without some reasoning...
Attending college for a year, working in a shop, maintaining the kart and my personal car... Many, many things make me a talented tech.
Amateur mistake: Checking only the codes. Replacing parts without some reasoning...
Attending college for a year, working in a shop, maintaining the kart and my personal car... Many, many things make me a talented tech.
- 1,289
- Salt Lake City
- Ferraridude308
Just gonna crash this argue-train with my opinion...
I don't need a touchscreen. I like my buttons and dials and toggle switches. I like having feedback so I know I've actually done something.
But the technology has advanced far enough that I wouldn't mind a touchscreen at all. I've played with the Ford and Chrysler/Maserati screens and they are very, very nice systems. I enjoyed using them and with enough time I would know where each button is and it would be a non-distraction. And now with haptic feedback, the feeling of doing isn't an issue. The amount of technology involved in modern cars necessitates a touchscreen of some kind.
Early 00's touchscreens = bad
Today's touchscreens = awesome
I don't need a touchscreen. I like my buttons and dials and toggle switches. I like having feedback so I know I've actually done something.
But the technology has advanced far enough that I wouldn't mind a touchscreen at all. I've played with the Ford and Chrysler/Maserati screens and they are very, very nice systems. I enjoyed using them and with enough time I would know where each button is and it would be a non-distraction. And now with haptic feedback, the feeling of doing isn't an issue. The amount of technology involved in modern cars necessitates a touchscreen of some kind.
Early 00's touchscreens = bad
Today's touchscreens = awesome
- 8,100
- Guelph, Ontario
That kart had a lawnmower engine.
The only "mechanicing" that ever had to be done was to change valve springs and fill it with gas.
- 17,865
- 509
I shouldn't have used a specific example because you are clearly incapable of seeing the larger picture - technology throws erroneous codes. Complaining about a different era of technology throwing codes is meaningless, as they all have quirks. You just happen to be more comfortable with a certain era of it, but I've seen plenty of people talk about how much better pre-EFI cars were because you had nearly nothing to worry about.
Also, again, you can add affordable engine management that will report AFR, among other things, to any car. For OEM applications, the information is next to useless though.
You realize most car people don't need a code to diagnose an O2 sensor being faulty? Or an intake issue? The point was the technology reporting these things isn't idiot proof by any means. But again, you seem to have missed the point entirely.
That ego, my god. My years of science and engineering at university, paired with engine swaps, tuning, and having many friends in motorsports that own shops building race cars certainly can't compare to your year of college and tinkering with cars.
The talent is just too much.
Pretty much everything you said, and this. Having a responsive and context aware display is far more useful than a bunch of static buttons and dials that are rarely used.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,510
- Texas
You said audio is the way to go. Audio has already been done successfully with cars that have touch screens.
You're like White & Nerdy in an even sadder way. Just reading your posts proves to me you talk out of your ass about something you've never actually experienced. Everything you brag about your phone doing, a navigation system can do better. Your crap about it taking up space shows you pay zero attention to the current market; navigation systems are no longer sitting in the middle of the console. They have moved up towards the top within' easier view & have gotten more compact.
Oh noes, where will I put my chap stick now?
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
Are they on short supply of them where you're from...?
Nor will it ever, if this is the thinking he wants to maintain.
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- 23,800
- Philippines
Are you talking about an O2 sensor reading?
O2 sensors only tell you the percentage of oxygen exiting via the exhaust. The AFR readout is an estimate of what your AFR is based on the O2 sensor reading. Which may or may not be absolutely accurate, depending on the exhaust configuration, and depending on whether it's a narrowband or wideband sensor.
It will not tell you why a car is apparently (And it's only apparently, because it's not a direct measure of AFR, just an estimation based on what the algorithm thinks is happening based on the percentage of oxygen the sensor sees)... errh... apparently running rich or lean.... whether it's a stuck-up EGR, an ignition issue (either incorrect timing or poor spark), a cracked exhaust manifold, a turbo issue, a fueling issue, a MAF/MAP calibration issue, a vacuum leak or etcetera.
It will not tell you where the problem is, or what the problem is, or if there's a problem at all. It's pretty useless for a non-mechanic, as it doesn't really tell them anything about where the problem is or how to fix it. It's handy for people who tune engines to spot whether or not their fuel and timing tables are drifting due to ECU temperature/weather compensation, or for hypermilers to find out when the engine goes into DFCO or lean-burn mode
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On the other hand, such a display could raise alarm bells for people knowledgeable enough to know what the proper stoichiometric ratio is for gasoline is, but not knowledgeable enough to know how direct injection or cooled EGR work.*
It just ain't that simple.
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*whew* Either way... want AFRs? Buy a Scangauge.
*dear lord, my afr is at 24:1... the motor is going to die!!!
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- 866
- Frozen Wasteland
- GTP_Cosworth
Depends on how well integrated it is in the overall design of the center console. The problem right now is that a lot of manufacturers are sticking touchscreens in cars that were never intended to have them.
However when a car's interior is designed to accommodate a touchscreen right from the get go, it can look quite good. Take the Lincoln MKZ for example:
- 5,000
- United States
- GTP_Johnny1996
My thoughts on touchscreens in cars depend on the car itself. For example, if its a muscle car, new or old, I don't want anything like a touchscreen. If its a supercar or luxury car, like a Lexus LFA or Mercedes, then give me one, even though admittedly I'd rarely use it.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
I don't see what the sub-category of a car is has to do with this. If it's a vintage car obviously this wouldn't look good, but modern cars no matter what they are categorized as are fine. So this doesn't make sense.
- 23,800
- Philippines
We do put up with flat parts on the dashboard. The climate control section, for one. The place they put the radio, for another. And the gauges, are almost invariably flat. It bothers me little because I'm used to big, ugly 2DIN head-units going where touchscreens go nowadays, and the touchscreen is nicer to look at than a gigantic bank of knobs and buttons.
There is hope for more sexiness... we have curved LED panels, now...
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License plates... it matters little if the designers make space. If they don't, then they suck. Unfortunately, many of today's designers seem to feel a car that looks good on the showroom floor is enough... without considering that putting a plate fitting in the middle of a black grille makes the car look like a bucktoothed hare.
Spaces with climate/radio buttons and knobs aren't flat...what I mean is how a screen is really flat. I think a large screen is a monolithic blight on any interior design. Visually, a big smooth rectangle will never fail to stick out.
I think knobs and buttons are fine. There can be too many of them, but a touchscreen is still uglier.
I think knobs and buttons are fine. There can be too many of them, but a touchscreen is still uglier.
- 5,000
- United States
- GTP_Johnny1996
Its personal opinion. That's pretty much it.
- 177
- Italy
- GattigerPlay
What if we accept touchscreens as a standard? What would you suggest to improve the interface?
Let's suppose that all of the features of the car have to be controlled by a touch screen (like the Tesla - no buttons)
Let's suppose that all of the features of the car have to be controlled by a touch screen (like the Tesla - no buttons)
