How has your time been with the GT Sport Beta?

[NixxxoN]

Sorry but that is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard, A stable but lower FPS is what makes a game smoother, "Smoothness is the key thing to bear in mind"

If your FPS is jumping all over the place not only will the game look worse but you will always be less precise FACT.

Inconsistently good vs consistenty bad, you choose the latter?
LOL, ok, good for you, 30 fps all yours, I'll have the other one thanks

 

[Scaff]

Inconsistently good vs consistenty bad, you choose the latter?
LOL, ok, good for you, 30 fps all yours, I'll have the other one thanks

You've failed to prove why a locked 30 is bad, you've tried with the smoothness argument, but that falls flat in its face in the fact that a wildly varying frame rate doesn't allow for smoothness, quite the opposite.

You are also forgetting that GT5 dropped to below 30 in the rain, making it inconsistently bad when using one of the flagship developments of GT5.

The bias in your logic just gets further ingrained with every post.

 

[ghostrider135]

You've failed to prove why a locked 30 is bad, you've tried with the smoothness argument, but that falls flat in its face in the fact that a wildly varying frame rate doesn't allow for smoothness, quite the opposite.

You are also forgetting that GT5 dropped to below 30 in the rain, making it inconsistently bad when using one of the flagship developments of GT5.

The bias in your logic just gets further ingrained with every post.

What logic?

 

[NixxxoN]

You've failed to prove why a locked 30 is bad, you've tried with the smoothness argument, but that falls flat in its face in the fact that a wildly varying frame rate doesn't allow for smoothness, quite the opposite.

You are also forgetting that GT5 dropped to below 30 in the rain, making it inconsistently bad when using one of the flagship developments of GT5.

The bias in your logic just gets further ingrained with every post.

30 fps doesnt allow for precise enough imput, for some types of games its enough framerate, but not for such type of game (racing game) I've experienced in several 30 fps games, I prefer 45-50-55 fps variable game that in the better conditions allows you for more precise imput, and you get used to the conditions where the frames drop more like rain or maybe dirt rally racing. I have nothing to prove, its what I think, nothing more to add.

 

[ImaRobot]

30 fps doesnt allow for precise enough imput, for some types of games its enough framerate, but not for such type of game (racing game) I've experienced in several 30 fps games, I prefer 45-50-55 fps variable game that in the better conditions allows you for more precise imput, and you get used to the conditions where the frames drop more like rain or maybe dirt rally racing. I have nothing to prove, its what I think, nothing more to add.

Yes it does. You just have no idea what you're talking about, frankly.

 

[Scaff]

30 fps doesnt allow for precise enough imput, for some types of games its enough framerate, but not for such type of game (racing game)

For you, please don't project that personal limitation onto others.

I've experienced in several 30 fps games,

And one that drops well below that at times, but you give that a pass because of the name its has.

I prefer 45-50-55 fps variable game that in the better conditions allows you for more precise imput, and you get used to the conditions where the frames drop more like rain or maybe dirt rally racing. I have nothing to prove, its what I think, nothing more to add.

So fixed 30fps isn't precises enough for you, well unless its in GT and then you can adapt to it as it bounces up and down below that level.

We know you have nothing to prove, because your can't, yet you still deny its bias that leads you to this absurd double standard.

 

[bdj57]

Imo 30fps is good enough to preserve graphics detail (i.e Driveclub, FH3) while 60fps is mainly a sole focus on driving/racing sims which is about giving a sense of realism and more immersive experience. I actually won't bother with framerate drops as long the game still looking good while keep stable and fluid through gameplay. A small drops like 2fps didn't give such huge impact tbh. Probably 10fps or more that's when gameplay started to stutter and having frame lag as I could remember.

About choosing which fps you prefer it is basically a matter of preferences to each of their own imo.

 

[ImaRobot]

Imo 30fps is good enough to preserve graphics detail (i.e Driveclub, FH3) while 60fps is mainly a sole focus on driving/racing sims which is about giving a sense of realism and more immersive experience. I actually won't bother with framerate drops as long the game still looking good while keep stable and fluid through gameplay. A small drops like 2fps didn't give such huge impact tbh. Probably 10fps or more that's when gameplay started to stutter and having frame lag.

About choosing which fps you prefer it is basically a matter of preferences to each of their own.

It's fine to have a preference but to pretend an unstable fps is more stable than a locked fps is just flat out wrong. Even more so to pretend drops as low as 45 fps is still better and stable than a game with a locked 30 is absolutely absurd.

 

[NixxxoN]

Imo 30fps is good enough to preserve graphics detail (i.e Driveclub, FH3) while 60fps is mainly a sole focus on driving/racing sims which is about giving a sense of realism and more immersive experience. I actually won't bother with framerate drops as long the game still looking good while keep stable and fluid through gameplay. A small drops like 2fps didn't give such huge impact tbh. Probably 10fps or more that's when gameplay started to stutter and having frame lag as I could remember.

About choosing which fps you prefer it is basically a matter of preferences to each of their own imo.

Thumbs up mate, Its cool to see once in a while someone who doesnt pretend to have the absolute truth
I should have talked about fluidity maybe, 30 fps games dont feel "fluid" enough for racing to me

 

[ImaRobot]

Thumbs up mate, Its cool to see once in a while someone who doesnt pretend to have the absolute truth
I should have talked about fluidity maybe, 30 fps games dont feel "fluid" enough for racing to me

The irony level is to damn high. If it's locked, it's fluid. Like @bdj57 mentions, I prefer my more sim oriented games to be 60fps, but that's far from what this discussion is about.

 

[Scaff]

Thumbs up mate, Its cool to see once in a while someone who doesnt pretend to have the absolute truth

Oh the irony.

I should have talked about fluidity maybe, 30 fps games dont feel "fluid" enough for racing to me

But one that can drop below that is absolutely fine if it has GT in the title.

 

[NixxxoN]

Oh the irony.


But one that can drop below that is absolutely fine if it has GT in the title.

It's not me who's agressively trying to force your opinion into others.
Is this forum a place where people compete to win arguments and they get prizes if they do so?

 

[Scaff]

It's not me who's agressively trying to force your opinion into others.

Oh really.

For some games 30 FPS its okay but for racing games? definitely no, it is important to have good smoothness and precision.

I wonder if some of those guys are paid forumers just to increase the site traffic or something

Nah, for a racing game, you'll play much better with an unstable 60 fps rather than a stable 30 fps, any day any time.

Inconsistently good vs consistenty bad, you choose the latter?

30 fps doesnt allow for precise enough imput, for some types of games its enough framerate, but not for such type of game (racing game)

Is this forum a place where people compete to win arguments and they get prizes if they do so?

Nope, but neither is it a place where bizarre double standards generally go unchecked. The only person who has attempted to force a view has been yourself, with the inane insistence that GT alone can make a variable framerate that can fluctuate from well below 30 to 60 acceptable, while any otehr title that does it or even has a fixed 30fps is 'not precise enough', 'not smooth' and 'bad'.

You have dragged the thread wildly off topic with a round of nonsense that you know full well you can't defend and think that sticking IMO on the end of claims makes it all alright, not to mention making absurd accusations against members who disagree with you simply to try and discredit them.

I strongly suggest you stop with the nonsense, you have already been given the opportunity to accept that this is simply a product of your own GT bias, but to now try and play the victim card is pushing it way over the line.

Its simple, stop presenting your opinion as if it were fact simply because you can't handle that GT might not be the best in some areas.

 

[NixxxoN]

Nope, but neither is it a place where bizarre double standards generally go unchecked. The only person who has attempted to force a view has been yourself, with the inane insistence that GT alone can make a variable framerate that can fluctuate from well below 30 to 60 acceptable, while any otehr title that does it or even has a fixed 30fps is 'not precise enough', 'not smooth' and 'bad'.

You have dragged the thread wildly off topic with a round of nonsense that you know full well you can't defend and think that sticking IMO on the end of claims makes it all alright, not to mention making absurd accusations against members who disagree with you simply to try and discredit them.

I strongly suggest you stop with the nonsense, you have already been given the opportunity to accept that this is simply a product of your own GT bias, but to now try and play the victim card is pushing it way over the line.

Its simple, stop presenting your opinion as if it were fact simply because you can't handle that GT might not be the best in some areas.

I never present my opinions as facts... this is what you think only. I always tell my opinion as opinion, not fact.
Dont confuse being stubborn to your own opinion (me) with trying to force others to change the opinion (you)

 

[bdj57]

It's fine to have a preference but to pretend an unstable fps is more stable than a locked fps is just flat out wrong. Even more so to pretend drops as low as 45 fps is still better and stable than a game with a locked 30 is absolutely absurd.

I might clarify my statement though. Tbh I'm fine if game keep stable even with slight (not huge) fps drops, but would be better if it is could locked and achieve the targeted framerate the whole time. make it even smoother. So the conclusion is yes it is obviously better to have locked fps than having framerate drops if you ask. It is simple logic. That is what I thought anyway.

Also, I'm not supporting or try to defend other people opinion here. Purely just wanted to share my thoughts to all members here.

 

[VBR]

Extremely unimpressed. Haven't touched it for ages since well before any of the updates. Won't be buying the full game, that's for sure.

 

[PzR Slim]

I'll never understand why some people are prepared to show themselves up and ruin their reputation in defence of one single game that they owe nothing to. Have some respect for yourself.

 

[Scaff]

I never present my opinions as facts... this is what you think only. I always tell my opinion as opinion, not fact.

Then you might want to watch how you phrase thing in future, as a good number of you posts I quoted above are presented as facts.

Dont confuse being stubborn to your own opinion (me) with trying to force others to change the opinion (you)

I've not attempted to get you to change your view, that would be a long list cause.

I'm trying to understand how your very clear bias and double standards work, as it's utterly fascinating.

A rambling chain of nonsense that you have subjected the thread to simply because someone dares to suggest that DC comes close to looking as good as GTS!

 

[NixxxoN]

I've not attempted to get you to change your view

lol...

I'm in a lot of forums and you guys are by far the most "agressive" mods i've found. Not only you, some of your colleagues too, you dont seem to only mod, but also you seem to try to shut up opinions you dont like.

 

[Scaff]

lol...

I'm in a lot of forums and you guys are by far the most "agressive" mods i've found. Not only you, some of your colleagues too, you dont seem to only mod, but also you seem to try to shut up opinions you dont like.

We are both moderators and members, as such we can post the exact same as any other member.

It's however no surprise to see you pulling the mods are trying to shut me up victim card.

If the staff really wanted to do that I can assure you that no other member would see a single post from you.

I've not tried to shut down your opinion, I've simply asked you to not present it as fact and to explain the double standards that exist within it.

However it's clear that you don't wish to do that so out comes the mods are out to get me distraction.

 

[NixxxoN]

We are both moderators and members, as such we can post the exact same as any other member.

It's however no surprise to see you pulling the mods are trying to shut me up victim card.

If the staff really wanted to do that I can assure you that no other member would see a single post from you.

I've not tried to shut down your opinion, I've simply asked you to not present it as fact and to explain the double standards that exist within it.

However it's clear that you don't wish to do that so out comes the mods are out to get me distraction.

I doubt you would have the same "high horse attitude" if you were not mods.
Double standards? I already told you but you seem to be a bit selective when reading stuff. For me DC feels hardly playable and GT5/6 feel very fluid and very playable even with the drops, thats it.

 

[flamingchariot]

It was very nice to have a peek at the game pre release. Not that it matters I preordered the collectors edition months ago. I just needed a fix whilst i finish the last few % of 5 & 6

 

[Scaff]

I doubt you would have the same "high horse attitude" if you were not mods.

Keep going..............

Double standards? I already told you but you seem to be a bit selective when reading stuff. For me DC feels hardly playable and GT5/6 feel very fluid and very playable even with the drops, thats it.

Which is a double standard, nothing selective about my reading of that. A title that drops below 30fps feels fluid and playable, but ones that are locked at 30 can never be fluid and playable makes no sense at all and is a clear double standard. If (as you argue) 30fps is the level at which fluid and playable can no longer be achieved then any title that drops to that level or below has to be held to the same measure.

So why don't you hold them to the same measure (and 'because GT' isn't a logical argument).

 

[NixxxoN]

Keep going..............


Which is a double standard, nothing selective about my reading of that. A title that drops below 30fps feels fluid and playable, but ones that are locked at 30 can never be fluid and playable makes no sense at all and is a clear double standard. If (as you argue) 30fps is the level at which fluid and playable can no longer be achieved then any title that drops to that level or below has to be held to the same measure.

So why don't you hold them to the same measure (and 'because GT' isn't a logical argument).

Those massive drops are only at very specific conditions, dont exaggerate, dont take the digital foundry video so seriously because those people chose the worst case scenarios for the frame drops, its very clear, most of the time GT5/6 run in the window of 50-55-60 fps which feels definitely far better than the static 30 fps.
And let me tell you, I get the impression that you are biased against GT, if you reach to conclusions of me being biased I can also do the same since we are both members, right? I get the impression that all you want to hear is "You are right, GT sucks"

 

[super_gt]

And let me tell you, I get the impression that you are biased against GT, if you reach to conclusions of me being biased I can also do the same since we are both members, right? I get the impression that all you want to hear is "You are right, GT sucks"

 

[Tassie_tiger]

I'm not sure that's laughable.
From where I sit the negative bias is evident.

But we all hold bias in someway or another.
It's human nature to do so.

 

[Ryan81]

I haven't played the beta unfortunately but from the videos that I've seen, the graphics are beautiful but the sounds still seem a bit lacklustre although better than from what I remember in GT6. Just a shame that there are so many fictional and VGTs. Hope the reveal of the final two dozen cars will garner some impressive and exciting editions...

 

[Scaff]

I'm not sure that's laughable.
From where I sit the negative bias is evident.

But we all hold bias in someway or another.
It's human nature to do so.

I would 100% agree that bias exists in everyone, in fact I've pointed that out in a number of threads over the years.

However that bias doesn't have to for a single title or series, a concept I find to be rather odd and counterproductive.

My personal bias in regard to racing titles is for the best physics simulation and racing recreation than can be achieved. As such I'm OK with visuals taking a hit if it benefits physics, and I like real-world racing series rules implemented in titles, along with formation laps, etc.

Those massive drops are only at very specific conditions, dont exaggerate, dont take the digital foundry video so seriously because those people chose the worst case scenarios for the frame drops, its very clear, most of the time GT5/6 run in the window of 50-55-60 fps which feels definitely far better than the static 30 fps.

Sorry but the conditions in which they occur in are not that uncommon, unless to avoid them you avoid larger grids, weather, city tracks and the cockpit view. All of which had a large impact on the framerate in GT5. I was for that exact reason that PD patched out a lot of the trackside detail for city tracks, a move that certainly helped, but didn't fix the issue in its entirety.

Now you may be happy to avoid these areas and situations, but when taking about the titles as a whole to start being that selective is to ignore that these problems most certainly do exist.

And let me tell you, I get the impression that you are biased against GT, if you reach to conclusions of me being biased I can also do the same since we are both members, right? I get the impression that all you want to hear is "You are right, GT sucks"

Yep I'm so biased against the GT series that I own every title, got my copy of GT3 (my pick of the series to date) signed by Kaz and Jordan, wrote a series of tuning guides for GT4 that ran to over a hundred pages and have been downloaded hundreds of times. So bias against it that I wrote just how positive I was for the changes I saw in it at the Copper Box.

I actively hate GT so much that when PD finally patched in torque steer to GT6, rather than avoid the fact (as no one else had posted on it) I gathered evidence of it and posted it for all to see here at the largest GT fan site on the planet!

I'm so biased against GT that I big up every other series that could challenge it in any way, which is why I have complained about the droped frames in PCars replays making them impossible to sync with in-car footage, that the controller set-up for PC is appallingly done and that the FFB settings as so absurd as to need a reference website to get the most out of them. In the same way that my review of AC described it has having trackside visuals from the PS2 (cardboard cutout crowds to be exact) and went as far as saying that as a game I simply could not recommend it (which I have never said about GT).

Lets not leave rally titles out of this either (as GT has done that so you would think I would big up the competition as an easy dig at GT), Dirt Rally I have described as having noticeable issues with the tyre model on tarmac, and messed up aero and vehicle weight; Dirt 4 I said took two steps forward and two steps back in these areas, fixing some physics issues only to replace them with others. Then we get to Seb Loeb Rally Evo, a great physics engine wrapped up in some of the worst visuals and sounds ever seen on the PS4 (and sounds wise since the PS2).

That's how biased against the GT series I am.

I've never comes close to suggesting that you should say that GT sucks, rather it would be nice if you could recognise that, just like every other title, it has its weak areas.

I mean take a look at what triggered you in this case, that DC might look almost as good as GTS!

Not look better, just almost as good.

 

[NixxxoN]

I would 100% agree that bias exists in everyone, in fact I've pointed that out in a number of threads over the years.

However that bias doesn't have to for a single title or series, a concept I find to be rather odd and counterproductive.

My personal bias in regard to racing titles is for the best physics simulation and racing recreation than can be achieved. As such I'm OK with visuals taking a hit if it benefits physics, and I like real-world racing series rules implemented in titles, along with formation laps, etc.


Sorry but the conditions in which they occur in are not that uncommon, unless to avoid them you avoid larger grids, weather, city tracks and the cockpit view. All of which had a large impact on the framerate in GT5. I was for that exact reason that PD patched out a lot of the trackside detail for city tracks, a move that certainly helped, but didn't fix the issue in its entirety.

Now you may be happy to avoid these areas and situations, but when taking about the titles as a whole to start being that selective is to ignore that these problems most certainly do exist.


Yep I'm so biased against the GT series that I own every title, got my copy of GT3 (my pick of the series to date) signed by Kaz and Jordan, wrote a series of tuning guides for GT4 that ran to over a hundred pages and have been downloaded hundreds of times. So bias against it that I wrote just how positive I was for the changes I saw in it at the Copper Box.

I actively hate GT so much that when PD finally patched in torque steer to GT6, rather than avoid the fact (as no one else had posted on it) I gathered evidence of it and posted it for all to see here at the largest GT fan site on the planet!

I'm so biased against GT that I big up every other series that could challenge it in any way, which is why I have complained about the droped frames in PCars replays making them impossible to sync with in-car footage, that the controller set-up for PC is appallingly done and that the FFB settings as so absurd as to need a reference website to get the most out of them. In the same way that my review of AC described it has having trackside visuals from the PS2 (cardboard cutout crowds to be exact) and went as far as saying that as a game I simply could not recommend it (which I have never said about GT).

Lets not leave rally titles out of this either (as GT has done that so you would think I would big up the competition as an easy dig at GT), Dirt Rally I have described as having noticeable issues with the tyre model on tarmac, and messed up aero and vehicle weight; Dirt 4 I said took two steps forward and two steps back in these areas, fixing some physics issues only to replace them with others. Then we get to Seb Loeb Rally Evo, a great physics engine wrapped up in some of the worst visuals and sounds ever seen on the PS4 (and sounds wise since the PS2).

That's how biased against the GT series I am.

I've never comes close to suggesting that you should say that GT sucks, rather it would be nice if you could recognise that, just like every other title, it has its weak areas.

I mean take a look at what triggered you in this case, that DC might look almost as good as GTS!

Not look better, just almost as good.

Oops, but you still have neither GT6 or GTSport beta on your signature.
Saying DC looks almost as good as GTS is ok for me... I also think DC looks good, the problem I have with DC is the framerate, as I pointed out.
You say your personal bias in regard to racing titles is for the best physics simulation, ok, so what do you think about DC?

 

[Scaff]

Oops, but you still have neither GT6 or GTSport beta on your signature.

I don't have Dirt 4 in it either, but I have that fired up right now.

The Beta has also ended and I gave my PS3 to my youngest.

What the hell any of that has to do with anything is however beyond me?

Would you like a picture of my GT collection just to show I'm not telling fibs?

Saying DC looks almost as good as GTS is ok for me... I also think DC looks good, the problem I have with DC is the framerate, as I pointed out.
You say your personal bias in regard to racing titles is for the best physics simulation, ok, so what do you think about DC?

DC is a solid arcade racer that's nice for a quick blast, in the same way that I also enjoy Ride 2 and FPS.

DC also presents itself as nothing but an arcade racer.