How has your time been with the GT Sport Beta?

[synon]

RE frame rate consistency: Yes, consistency is important; a consistent lower FPS will look smoother than a higher FPS that goes up and down.

Not necessarily, eg I suspect most people would say that a fixed rate of 1 fps is not smoother than a variable rate over 30 fps.

If your FPS is jumping all over the place not only will the game look worse but you will always be less precise FACT.

I would have thought it would be the opposite due to the lower input lag with a non-fixed frame rate.

 

[Tornado]

I would have thought it would be the opposite due to the lower lag with a non-fixed frame rate.

You would have thought wrong.

 

[synon]

You would have thought wrong.

Why so?

 

[Tassie_tiger]

I would 100% agree that bias exists in everyone, in fact I've pointed that out in a number of threads over the years.

However that bias doesn't have to for a single title or series, a concept I find to be rather odd and counterproductive.

My personal bias in regard to racing titles is for the best physics simulation and racing recreation than can be achieved. As such I'm OK with visuals taking a hit if it benefits physics, and I like real-world racing series rules implemented in titles, along with formation laps, etc.

👍

Perhaps it was wrong of me to use the term negative "bias".
That may be too strong.

But I watched your final video on the beta.
And I left that thinking - Yeh, this guy really doesn't like the game, and it's starting to show.

That's fine of course.
We all have our preferences.

For me, I have reservations about the game GT Sport.
But my focus is getting to race my GT mates again online.
In that respect, things are looking good.
Great graphics, better sounds, improved physics, plus those little extras that might come with the game.
Any small imperfections are of little consequence in that sense as we will all be on the same footing.
As long as they aren't intrusive flaws such as some that came with GT6 online.

So in that respect I'm perhaps giving GTS a fair bit of free rein.
And of course, with that in mind, quite positively biased for GTS.

I'll be looking at other games if I want something more serious.

 

[Scaff]

👍

Perhaps it was wrong of me to use the term negative "bias".
That may be too strong.

But I watched your final video on the beta.
And I left that thinking - Yeh, this guy really doesn't like the game, and it's starting to show.

That's fine of course.
We all have our preferences.

For me, I have reservations about the game GT Sport.
But my focus is getting to race my GT mates again online.
In that respect, things are looking good.
Great graphics, better sounds, improved physics, plus those little extras that might come with the game.
Any small imperfections are of little consequence in that sense as we will all be on the same footing.
As long as they aren't intrusive flaws such as some that came with GT6 online.

So in that respect I'm perhaps giving GTS a fair bit of free rein.
And of course, with that in mind, quite positively biased for GTS.

I'll be looking at other games if I want something more serious.

If I sounded disappointed in the beta in my final video that would be a fair observation.

I look at in a different way, for racing against friends I already have a very healthy list of titles, with one more to add before my copy of GTS arrives. As such it's not offering anything I don't already have and apart from looks it's not offering anything those titles don't already do better.

Now the final release may be better than the beta, I certainly hope so because I really liked what I played at the Copper Box.

Honestly if you think I was hard on the beta take a read of my first review of AC and watch a few of the videos around the AI in AC at launch.

 

[Tornado]

Why so?

Because it's not true. Anything else?

 

[1241Penguin]

Not necessarily, eg I suspect most people would say that a fixed rate of 1 fps is not smoother than a variable rate over 30 fps.

Either you're missing the point or you're deliberately missing the point.

 

[ghostrider135]

Either you're missing the point or you're deliberately missing the point.

He must have a variable FPS

 

[synon]

Either you're missing the point or you're deliberately missing the point.

Your point was that "a consistent lower FPS will look smoother than a higher FPS that goes up and down". and I gave an extreme example where it wouldn't, the point being that it's not the consistency alone that matters as you seemed to suggest.

Because it's not true. Anything else?

lol ok

 

[1241Penguin]

Your point was that "a consistent lower FPS will look smoother than a higher FPS that goes up and down". and I gave an extreme example where it wouldn't, the point being that it's not the consistency alone that matters as you seemed to suggest.

Considering the discussion was centred around 30 FPS vs 60 FPS I would've thought that common sense would've taken over and made you realize that I wasn't talking about extremes.

 

[synon]

Considering the discussion was centred around 30 FPS vs 60 FPS I would've thought that common sense would've taken over and made you realize that I wasn't talking about extremes.

I didn't think you were talking about extremes, my example was to highlight the fact that smoothness is not solely a function of consistency.

 

[Tornado]

Your example, along with the things you "would have thought", are nothing more than you trying to pretend that the things everyone has been saying in this thread are some sort of revelation only coming out now because GT Sport doesn't run as good as it should be; instead of something that has been common knowledge (even from people who couldn't explain they were seeing) since at least when the original Doom was ported to dozens of consoles not powerful enough to actually handle it 20 years ago.

 

[1241Penguin]

my example was to highlight the fact that smoothness is not solely a function of consistency.

Yes, and to do that, you went with extremes, which means I still have no idea what exactly it is that you're trying to contribute to the discussion.

 

[synon]

Your example, along with the things you "would have thought", are nothing more than you trying to pretend that the things everyone has been saying in this thread are some sort of revelation

Not really.

...because GT Sport doesn't run as good as it should be

Who decides that?

instead of something that has been common knowledge (even from people who couldn't explain they were seeing) since at least when the original Doom was ported to dozens of consoles not powerful enough to actually handle it 20 years ago.

I'm not quite certain what you're alluding to with the Doom console port, a reference would help.

 

[Dylan]

Delete. Wrong thread.

 

[TS050]

I'm actually kind of mixed. The game still needs a lot of work (BoP is horrific, SR needs refining, AA needs work on base PS4, sounds, while improved, are still behind the competition, Tokyo Expressway exists, physics/tire model needs improvements, frame rate still has issues, etc.) But at the same, I found the game to be immense fun. The online races where the SR wasn't borked had some great racing, and even though I didn't win any of my races throughout the entirety of the beta, a lot of the races were fair and didn't have a wide skill gulf between the racers (i.e. some of my early races would have 1st running laps 5 seconds a lap faster than 2nd). I'll be buying it, but it has a lot to live up to.

 

[Tornado]

Not really.

Then you just have no idea what you're talking about. Either way explains it.

 

[synon]

Then you just have no idea what you're talking about. Either way explains it.

Well, I only talked about two things, and one of those was a supposition about a game not being less precise which was based on recalling things like this from Eurogamer's Pcars review:

"The decision to unlock the game's frame-rate is a mixed blessing, but one that ultimately benefits playability. On the one hand, it's unfortunate that the game's standout weather effects go hand in hand with this distracting artefact. But on the other, we're looking at a far more flexible read-out on our frame-time graph, allowing frames to output around 25ms even under load - as opposed to forcing frames to update at the next rung down at 33ms had there been v-sync engaged. On balance, this makes controls smoother even if the visuals do take a noticeable hit."

As I said, it was just a supposition and I'm perfectly happy if it's proven to be incorrect..

 

[mokalovesoulmat]

Lol, another framerate debate.

One thing for sure, for GTS CBT I dont remember if there was any frame drops AT ALL. In full lobby. In Nurburgring/Brands Hatch. Everything just smooth, responsive and 100% playable. (Oh the only stupid thing is the floaty car I previously described).

Dont ask for willow springs, it has lesser objects

 

[NixxxoN]

I don't have Dirt 4 in it either, but I have that fired up right now.

The Beta has also ended and I gave my PS3 to my youngest.

What the hell any of that has to do with anything is however beyond me?

Would you like a picture of my GT collection just to show I'm not telling fibs?



DC is a solid arcade racer that's nice for a quick blast, in the same way that I also enjoy Ride 2 and FPS.

DC also presents itself as nothing but an arcade racer.

"DC also presents itself as nothing but an arcade racer" where do they say Driveclub say its an arcade game and present themselves as that? Because I haven't seen it anywhere.
BTW, owning every GT title is not impressive at all, I also do, I suppose millions of people do, and it really doesnt stop you from being neagative biased as of today.

 

[1241Penguin]

"DC also presents itself as nothing but an arcade racer" where do they say Driveclub say its an arcade game and present themselves as that? Because I haven't seen it anywhere.

Is this a joke?

There's an irony in how you want hard and concrete evidence for the most obvious of things and yet you're willing to rely on nothing but assumptions just to make a point like:

BTW, owning every GT title is not impressive at all, I also do, I suppose millions of people do

and it really doesnt stop you from being neagative biased as of today.

You have had so many people on your case for your hypocrisy, in this thread and throughout your history on this forum, for presenting "facts" about GT in the most asinine fashion as if to prove a point, and to ignore others when it's convenient for you, that you actually have the audacity to accuse someone else (Scaff of all people) of bias?

 

[NixxxoN]

Is this a joke?

There's an irony in how you want hard and concrete evidence for the most obvious of things and yet you're willing to rely on nothing but assumptions just to make a point like:

You have had so many people on your case for your hypocrisy, in this thread and throughout your history on this forum, for presenting "facts" about GT in the most asinine fashion as if to prove a point, and to ignore others when it's convenient for you, that you actually have the audacity to accuse someone else (Scaff of all people) of bias?

Please eligthen me about DC... What I found is they presented DC as just a "racing game".
As some other driver pointed out, everyone is a bit biased in some way or another, if someone accuses me of being bias and pretending they arent biased at all, I think its a bit funny.

 

[Scaff]

Lol, another framerate debate.

One thing for sure, for GTS CBT I dont remember if there was any frame drops AT ALL. In full lobby. In Nurburgring/Brands Hatch. Everything just smooth, responsive and 100% playable. (Oh the only stupid thing is the floaty car I previously described).

Dont ask for willow springs, it has lesser objects

Some people don't see framerate drops depending on the fps in question, its why for some 30fps is not an issue and for others it can be. Which is why it makes no sense for people to state that frame rate X is unacceptable for all, as they can only speak with regard to how it is for them.

"DC also presents itself as nothing but an arcade racer" where do they say Driveclub say its an arcade game and present themselves as that? Because I haven't seen it anywhere.
BTW, owning every GT title is not impressive at all, I also do, I suppose millions of people do, and it really doesnt stop you from being neagative biased as of today.

Seriously that's the level you have sunk to?

I also love Wipeout, have fun with that one.

The Crew, NFS and plenty of other arcade titles don't use the term arcade either, does that now make them sims?

Please eligthen me about DC... What I found is they presented DC as just a "racing game".
As some other driver pointed out, everyone is a bit biased in some way or another, if someone accuses me of being bias and pretending they arent biased at all, I think its a bit funny.

Quote me saying that or correct yourself.

I can tolerate your nonsense, but I'm not going to tolerate you simply making things up and assigning them to me.

 

[Ryan81]

I find it humorous how some ardent GT fans can't accept criticism of anything GT-related. There always seems to be a response for every valid point made. For example, a car list consisting of at least half the car roster made up of fictional concept and race cars. Response? GT has always had these in every game. Low car count for such a big series? I only ever use 5 cars max so it's plenty or GT3 also had a low count. Car sounds have too much transmission whine or engines sounding very muted? Not true, let's stop the vacuum cleaner jokes, they're not funny anymore. But no real evidence to the contrary. I'm not saying that Forza and Pcars don't have these type of fans too but there seem to be a lot more GT fans who are so protective of the series that they will almost do anything to silence productive criticism.

 

[NixxxoN]

Quote me saying that or correct yourself.

I can tolerate your nonsense, but I'm not going to tolerate you simply making things up and assigning them to me.

You: "you are biased"
So that implies you arent?
Lets leave this here because its a bit ridiculous and I only see two people wanting to have the last word

 

[Scaff]

You: "you are biased"
So that implies you arent?

No it doesn't.

Lets leave this here because its a bit ridiculous and I only see two people wanting to have the last word

No let's not.

You see I said.

I would 100% agree that bias exists in everyone, in fact I've pointed that out in a number of threads over the years.

However that bias doesn't have to for a single title or series, a concept I find to be rather odd and counterproductive.

My personal bias in regard to racing titles is for the best physics simulation and racing recreation than can be achieved. As such I'm OK with visuals taking a hit if it benefits physics, and I like real-world racing series rules implemented in titles, along with formation laps, etc.

A point you can't even claim to have missed given that you quoted it in one of your posts.

As such your claim...

pretending they arent biased at all

...is quite clearly deliberately missleading.

The AUP isn't vague about this and this is quite clear cut.

 

[NixxxoN]

No it doesn't.
No let's not.

You see I said.

A point you can't even claim to have missed given that you quoted it in one of your posts.

As such your claim...

...is quite clearly deliberately missleading.

The AUP isn't vague about this and this is quite clear cut.

Ok, so we both are biased, and its ok. Moving on.

 

[ghostrider135]

Please eligthen me about DC... What I found is they presented DC as just a "racing game".
As some other driver pointed out, everyone is a bit biased in some way or another, if someone accuses me of being bias and pretending they arent biased at all, I think its a bit funny.

https://www.vg247.com/2013/08/08/driveclubs-car-handling-isnt-pure-simulation-explains-dev/ Just to shut you up 👍

 

[NixxxoN]

https://www.vg247.com/2013/08/08/driveclubs-car-handling-isnt-pure-simulation-explains-dev/ Just to shut you up 👍

Why you want me to shut up? I'll shut up if I want, not because you want so.
They're not saying its a complete arcade, thats what I was asking for.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Why you want me to shut up? I'll shut up if I want, not because you want so.
They're not saying its a complete arcade, thats what I was asking for.

But players can pick up the pad and hammer the throttle, the intricacies can be picked up later.”

“We’ve spent a lot of time refining how we deal with player inputs. If the player throws a car around the corner then touches the stick in the other direction we need to know how much opposite lock to give them at that time. Give them too much, they’ll spin, too little and they’ll under-steer. It’s just all about refining and iterating. We feel we have the sweet spot now.”

Two hallmarks of arcade games and the opposite of sims. You can just hammer the throttle and go and the level of countersteer is determined by the game, not the player. A developer can call a game whatever he wants but the details say it's arcade.