How has your time been with the GT Sport Beta?

[MisterOne77]

I find it humorous how some ardent GT fans can't accept criticism of anything GT-related. There always seems to be a response for every valid point made. For example, a car list consisting of at least half the car roster made up of fictional concept and race cars. Response? GT has always had these in every game. Low car count for such a big series? I only ever use 5 cars max so it's plenty or GT3 also had a low count. Car sounds have too much transmission whine or engines sounding very muted? Not true, let's stop the vacuum cleaner jokes, they're not funny anymore. But no real evidence to the contrary. I'm not saying that Forza and Pcars don't have these type of fans too but there seem to be a lot more GT fans who are so protective of the series that they will almost do anything to silence productive criticism.

I don't agree with the vacuum cleaner joke though, ever since GTS gameplay was first unveiled, I have never once thought "These cars sound like vacuum cleaners". I just don't hear mate.

 

[MisterOne77]

Why is this debate still going on? This has nothing to do with anything.

 

[GBO Possum]

Ahem...

"How has your time been with the GT Sport Beta?"

I was kind of hoping for some insight into user experiences which might be a little more in-depth than "I don't like it", and certainly not swamping the thread with FPS bickering

Mods, is it possible to move the pages of FPS argument to its own thread?

 

[novcze]

Vacuum cleaners aside, what's going on with the tire screech? I didn't have beta access but from the videos I saw, tire screech sounds very monotonous. Do tires make different sounds when you approaching their limit and how are tire sounds under braking? Also, can you setup volume balance between sounds (engine, tires, wind, etc.)?

 

[azeeza]

It s not like this game or GT5/6 run at almost 20-60fps of the time
It s under certain condition, 20-45 fps is on rain condition, Otherwhise it is always at 50-60 fps so saying it drops from 60 to 20 fps currently it s pure BS
Or maybe you mistake lag with fps drop

 

[ImaRobot]

It s not like this game or GT5/6 run at almost 20-60fps of the time

No one said it did.

It s under certain condition, 20-45 fps is on rain condition

Which was stated.

Otherwhise it is always at 50-60 fps so saying it drops from 60 to 20 fps currently it s pure BS

Saying it drops anywhere between 20-60 fps is not bs. It happens. Either way, no one has claimed its something that happens at all times during the game. Following the discussion, it has been about the fact that a locked 30 fps will always play better than a game that drops that dramatically.

Or maybe you mistake lag with fps drop

Nope.

 

[azeeza]

No one said it did.

Which was stated.

Saying it drops anywhere between 20-60 fps is not bs. It happens. Either way, no one has claimed its something that happens at all times during the game. Following the discussion, it has been about the fact that a locked 30 fps will always play better than a game that drops that dramatically.


Nope.

It depends how you said it who is BS
Saying what you wrote here is different than the posts i read at previous page
When you ( not you) put a 20-60fps without following details, it means the game is very instable at all time, like if you put the disc, do 10 races, and the game have drop fps at every races
For the second part of discussion, i say nothing, cause it s about opinion

 

[ImaRobot]

It depends how you said it who is BS

How was it said?

Saying what you wrote here is different than the posts i read at previous page

Care to point them out?

When you ( not you) put a 20-60fps without following details, it means the game is very instable at all time, like if you put the disc, do 10 races, and the game have drop fps at every races

Where was that posted?

For the second part of discussion, i say nothing, cause it s about opinion

It's not of opinion that a game with locked 30fps will play better, smoother, and more accurate than a game that is supposed to be 60fps that drops as low as that. That is an outright falsehood.

 

[Tornado]

Unless you were doing tarmac special event races in the day or whatever, GT5 did have FPS drops in every race. It was the severity that changed. Not whether it happened in the first place.

 

[Silver Arrows]

I find it humorous how some ardent GT fans can't accept criticism of anything GT-related. There always seems to be a response for every valid point made. For example, a car list consisting of at least half the car roster made up of fictional concept and race cars. Response? GT has always had these in every game. Low car count for such a big series? I only ever use 5 cars max so it's plenty or GT3 also had a low count. Car sounds have too much transmission whine or engines sounding very muted? Not true, let's stop the vacuum cleaner jokes, they're not funny anymore. But no real evidence to the contrary. I'm not saying that Forza and Pcars don't have these type of fans too but there seem to be a lot more GT fans who are so protective of the series that they will almost do anything to silence productive criticism.

What do you expect, we're on a mostly GT forum with roots in the series. There's going to be no shortage of peeps like NixxxON who feel it's their sworn duty to die on the sword of GT.

And considering the rapidly eroding market share GT as a whole has for the sim racing space, that's all they have left.

 

[azeeza]

How was it said?

Care to point them out?

Where was that posted?


It's not of opinion that a game with locked 30fps will play better, smoother, and more accurate than a game that is supposed to be 60fps that drops as low as that. That is an outright falsehood.

From Scaff ''The picked a locked 30fps and to you it makes it unplayable, yet GT5 had a frame rate that could fluctuate from 20 to 60 and thats just fine?'' on rain condition it never runs at 60fps so saying it drop from 60 is false, so it can mean it any condition ? So most part ?

Yet it s about opinion, if you prefer to play the whole game with a slow rate even if it s locked it s ok with you
I prefer at higher rate, if it has drop it doesn't bother me, it s not like it occurs often on the game
Better speed smooth than slow smooth
The addition of the blur to compensate the low rate, i don't like it, the game occurs to have missing frame, and it s very noticable on race game

Unless you were doing tarmac special event races in the day or whatever, GT5 did have FPS drops in every race. It was the severity that changed. Not whether it happened in the first place.

I platined GT5 and GT6, i dont really remember it, even on online
Maybe only on the 2 sec of the stop start, i know the Red Bull championship has fps drop

 

[ImaRobot]

From Scaff ''The picked a locked 30fps and to you it makes it unplayable, yet GT5 had a frame rate that could fluctuate from 20 to 60 and thats just fine?'' on rain condition it never runs at 60fps so saying it drop from 60 is false, so it can mean it any condition ? So most part ?

If you had followed the discussion from the beginning you would have noticed that the instance it came up, he initially had posted that. You must have caught that deep into the conversation.

You've failed to prove why a locked 30 is bad, you've tried with the smoothness argument, but that falls flat in its face in the fact that a wildly varying frame rate doesn't allow for smoothness, quite the opposite.

You are also forgetting that GT5 dropped to below 30 in the rain, making it inconsistently bad when using one of the flagship developments of GT5.

Either way, that doesn't make it bs at all. It's true that the game did fluctuate as dramatically as that. No where did he mention that it happens at all times.

The reason it's mentioned dropping from 60, is because that was the goal. The fact that it doesn't start at 60, or so you say, doesn't make it a lie, but more so flows with the truth considering the actual goal in mind.

Yet it s about opinion, if you prefer to play the whole game with a slow rate even if it s locked it s ok with you
I prefer at higher rate, if it has drop it doesn't bother me, it s not like it occurs often on the game

You being ok with fluctuations doesn't automatically falsify the statement that is being said. It just means you're ok with playing a game that runs worse than what you're saying actually is worse supposedly.

 

[Tornado]

From Scaff ''The picked a locked 30fps and to you it makes it unplayable, yet GT5 had a frame rate that could fluctuate from 20 to 60 and thats just fine?'' on rain condition it never runs at 60fps so saying it drop from 60 is false, so it can mean it any condition ? So most part ?

Except that was a single post in a chain of posts by Scaff on the subject, and GT5 can get up to 60fps in the rain. Even the Digital Foundry video, which was in the rain at night behind a pack of other cars, very nearly accomplished that several times in between the drops to the low 20s.

So you didn't even cherry pick correcty.

Yet it s about opinion, if you prefer to play the whole game with a slow rate even if it s locked it s ok with you

Personal preferences aren't relevant to whether the game actually plays better in terms of consistent control response and visual lag.

I platined GT5 and GT6, i dont really remember it, even on online

So?

 

[Scaff]

From Scaff ''The picked a locked 30fps and to you it makes it unplayable, yet GT5 had a frame rate that could fluctuate from 20 to 60 and thats just fine?'' on rain condition it never runs at 60fps so saying it drop from 60 is false, so it can mean it any condition ? So most part ?

If you wish to quote me please do me the favour of actually doing it in a manner that lets me know, as I then at least have a chance to respond.

Now in short I am referring to GT5 as a whole, it's a title that has a frame rate that does range from 20 to 60 (actually lower if you want to bring 3D into it).

That it doesn't start at 60 when raining is hardly a great defense, nor a valid rebuttal of the point I was making.

Yet it s about opinion, if you prefer to play the whole game with a slow rate even if it s locked it s ok with you
I prefer at higher rate, if it has drop it doesn't bother me, it s not like it occurs often on the game

Frame rate drops occur pretty much all the the in GT5, just about the only time they didn't was if you were the only car on track and using bumper cam.

 

[azeeza]

If you had followed the discussion from the beginning you would have noticed that the instance it came up, he initially had posted that. You must have caught that deep into the conversation.


Either way, that doesn't make it bs at all. It's true that the game did fluctuate as dramatically as that. No where did he mention that it happens at all times.

The reason it's mentioned dropping from 60, is because that was the goal. The fact that it doesn't start at 60, or so you say, doesn't make it a lie, but more so flows with the truth considering the actual goal in mind.


You being ok with fluctuations doesn't automatically falsify the statement that is being said. It just means you're ok with playing a game that runs worse than what you're saying actually is worse supposedly.

Like I said it s 2 discussions
The first one is about GT, the state of the game, nothing to do with if i like it or not
And the second one about preference of locked at lower framerate vs unlocked higher framerate

 

[ImaRobot]

Like I said it s 2 discussions
The first one is about GT, the state of the game, nothing to do with if i like it or not

Except the part that you keep saying is of opinion, is wrong. It's not of anyone's opinion that the game fluctuated to different degrees, its a fact. It's also not of an opinion that a game that is locked at 30 fps is going to play better than one that fluctuates between 20-60fps. The only opinion is that you're ok with it.

 

[azeeza]

If you wish to quote me please do me the favour of actually doing it in a manner that lets me know, as I then at least have a chance to respond.

Now in short I am referring to GT5 as a whole, it's a title that has a frame rate that does range from 20 to 60 (actually lower if you want to bring 3D into it).

That it doesn't start at 60 when raining is hardly a great defense, nor a valid rebuttal of the point I was making.



Frame rate drops occur pretty much all the the in GT5, just about the only time they didn't was if you were the only car on track and using bumper cam.

I talked to ImaRobot, and he want to see the quote, i was not talk directly to you but i ll do it the next time

That s must be the reason, i play on bumper cam lol

 

[azeeza]

Except the part that you keep saying is of opinion, is wrong. It's not of anyone's opinion that the game fluctuated to different degrees, its a fact. It's also not of an opinion that a game that is locked at 30 fps is going to play better than one that fluctuates between 20-60fps. The only opinion is that you're ok with it.

You better read what i wrote
It s a fact that GT fluctuate, and i wrote it in a manner, and i never say it with opinion
And ok so GT must be on 30fps right ?
Still it s my opinion that the dropping doesnt bother me, cause it follows the same schematic layout
And i dont like 30fps on racing game, i dont care if it s locked or not
So yes it s my Opinion

 

[ImaRobot]

You better read what i wrote
It s a fact that GT fluctuate, and i wrote it in a manner, and i never say it with opinion

I did, it's your language barrier that is making things confusing to me.

And ok so GT must be on 30fps right ?

Not sure what this question is supposed to mean.

Still it s my opinion that the dropping doesnt bother me, cause it follows the same schematic layout

Which this discussion was never about, but that's fine that you feel that way.

And if i dont like 30fps on racing game, i dont care of it s locked or not

Not sure what that has to do with the discussion either. Locked FPS is what I prefer first and foremost. Makes any experience that much better.

So yes it s my Opinion

Ok. Still doesn't clear up any of the confusion you seem to be bringing here.

 

[azeeza]

I did, it's your language barrier that is making things confusing to me.


Not sure what this question is supposed to mean.


Which this discussion was never about, but that's fine that you feel that way.


Not sure what that has to do with the discussion either. Locked FPS is what I prefer first and foremost. Makes any experience that much better.


Ok. Still doesn't clear up any of the confusion you seem to be bringing here.

Well if GT has bad framerate, PD is not making a good choice to stay with 60fps, so sthey have to make a 30fps game ? Cause it s better with locked fps

I said it by opinion, because you said 30fps locked is a fact with better play. But it s not a simple fact, in a sense we all want a locked game but if i have a choice between good 30fps and ''bad'' 60fps, i go with 60fps

 

[ImaRobot]

Well if GT has bad framerate, PD is not making a good choice to stay with 60fps, so sthey have to make a 30fps game ? Cause it s better with locked fps

No, they should learn to make compromises within game design choices to be able to achieve it. Although I'm just one person, and that is what I prefer. I'm sure some would prefer less on the graphical side, and more on the physics side, and vice versa.

I said it by opinion, because you said 30fps locked is a fact with better play. But it s not a simple fact, in a sense we all want a locked game but if i have a choice between good 30fps and ''bad'' 60fps, i go with 60fps

It is a fact that a game that runs at a locked 30fps and never budges is going to run smoother and more accurate than a game that fluctuates as bad as to run at 20fps, and has fps issues in most of the game. By definition and by example. There might be small instances, that when it hits and runs at 60fps for an extended period of time that it would be fine, but that's it. That you don't mind the drops is the only opinion here.

It depends on how "bad" do you mean, but if its dropping by 10+ than I will say I'm the complete opposite. That is horrid to me.

 

[azeeza]

No, they should learn to make compromises within game design choices to be able to achieve it. Although I'm just one person, and that is what I prefer. I'm sure some would prefer less on the graphical side, and more on the physics side, and vice versa.


It is a fact that a game that runs at a locked 30fps and never budges is going to run smoother and more accurate than a game that fluctuates as bad as to run at 20fps, and has fps issues in most of the game. By definition and by example. There might be small instances, that when it hits and runs at 60fps for an extended period of time that it would be fine, but that's it. That you don't mind the drops is the only opinion here.

It depends on how "bad" do you mean, but if its dropping by 10+ than I will say I'm the complete opposite. That is horrid to me.

When you see critics on the bad low asset for trees, it would be even worst if they compromise on the graphics departement
What they could for ps3, was the resolution i guess, where all games are on 720p

I agree with your definition, but still i prefer a 60fps over a locked 30fps
Well 'bad' by jumping fps, but like GTS is good, cause it s a drop for few fps
Even on a bump, it s not very noticable if it does, it depends where it drop actually

 

[Johnnypenso]

When you see critics on the bad low asset for trees, it would be even worst if they compromise on the graphics departement
What they could for ps3, was the resolution i guess, where all games are on 720p

I agree with your definition, but still i prefer a 60fps over a locked 30fps
Well 'bad' by jumping fps, but like GTS is good, cause it s a drop for few fps
Even on a bump, it s not very noticable if it does, it depends where it drop actually

Everyone prefers 60 fps over 30 fps assuming everything else the same. It's a fluctuating 20-60fps vs. locked 30 fps that the debate is about. Also important to note that GTS is having minor framerate issues already and yet we haven't seen any time of day or weather in the game, which, combined with a full grid, is hardest on frame rates.

 

[azeeza]

Everyone prefers 60 fps over 30 fps assuming everything else the same. It's a fluctuating 20-60fps vs. locked 30 fps that the debate is about. Also important to note that GTS is having minor framerate issues already and yet we haven't seen any time of day or weather in the game, which, combined with a full grid, is hardest on frame rates.

My concern about these drop is if it remains a long period, but otherwise i can live with a fract of second of drop
Yes we will see it, because we don't know yet how the optimisation is for the beta
But we wont see time of day change ( no cycle) , or you talk about anything else ?
The stress test here wil be the same conditions then the previous games, rain, standing start, chicane etc

 

[lancia delta hf]

I have to ask, with you mates that are overall disappointed with GTS, how would you fix it to where you would actually consider buying it? On the physics side of things, I don't think GT will ever get the the level complexity that you see in Pcars or AC or any other hardcore sim. It just isn't what PD is aiming for despite things that they have said.

What I don't like from the playing side is how calm the racing looks from cockpit view, even the hands ( with the thumb placement) and how slow they move makes me think it's Miss Daisys Chauffeur that is driving. Along with thatch detest how impacts on solid objects look, virtually no camera shake at all. It looks like the cars are solid as rock. That is the biggest immersion breaker for me.

lol...

I'm in a lot of forums and you guys are by far the most "agressive" mods i've found. Not only you, some of your colleagues too, you dont seem to only mod, but also you seem to try to shut up opinions you dont like.

0h, you mean mods on other forums don't call you out on your BS?

I doubt you would have the same "high horse attitude" if you were not mods.
Double standards? I already told you but you seem to be a bit selective when reading stuff. For me DC feels hardly playable and GT5/6 feel very fluid and very playable even with the drops, thats it.

Case in point. GT6 frame rate was so bad at times that it looked like it was going backwards momentarily. How is that fluid?

I'm not sure that's laughable.
From where I sit the negative bias is evident.

But we all hold bias in someway or another.
It's human nature to do so.

"DC also presents itself as nothing but an arcade racer" where do they say Driveclub say its an arcade game and present themselves as that? Because I haven't seen it anywhere.
BTW, owning every GT title is not impressive at all, I also do, I suppose millions of people do, and it really doesnt stop you from being neagative biased as of today.

There is a massive difference between Neg/Pos bias which is as a result of the product, and Neg/Pos bias which is as a result of the product name and not product itself.

You don't need to be Einstein to see which @NixxxoN bias is catered towards. This is the person who said we don't need cockpits in racing games all in the effort to defend blacked out cockpits in GT5/6 because it isn't realistic. So I'm sure Nixxon doesn't think we should have chase cam either, or any cam for that matter!

 

[MisterOne77]

What I don't like from the playing side is how calm the racing looks from cockpit view, even the hands ( with the thumb placement) and how slow they move makes me think it's Miss Daisys Chauffeur that is driving. Along with thatch detest how impacts on solid objects look, virtually no camera shake at all. It looks like the cars are solid as rock. That is the biggest immersion breaker for me.


0h, you mean mods on other forums don't call you out on your BS?
Case in point. GT6 frame rate was so bad at times that it looked like it was going backwards momentarily. How is that fluid?



There is a massive difference between Neg/Pos bias which is as a result of the product, and Neg/Pos bias which is as a result of the product name and not product itself.

You don't need to be Einstein to see which @NixxxoN bias is catered towards. This is the person who said we don't need cockpits in racing games all in the effort to defend blacked out cockpits in GT5/6 because it isn't realistic. So I'm sure Nixxon doesn't think we should have chase cam either, or any cam for that matter!

So basically, you want more dynamic camera movements and a better sense of speed?

 

[sems4arsenal]

Should we start a feature request thread? the one I made in the Driveclub subforum was a success (credit to Rushy). Man I want a sequel

 

[NixxxoN]

What I don't like from the playing side is how calm the racing looks from cockpit view, even the hands ( with the thumb placement) and how slow they move makes me think it's Miss Daisys Chauffeur that is driving. Along with thatch detest how impacts on solid objects look, virtually no camera shake at all. It looks like the cars are solid as rock. That is the biggest immersion breaker for me.


0h, you mean mods on other forums don't call you out on your BS?
Case in point. GT6 frame rate was so bad at times that it looked like it was going backwards momentarily. How is that fluid?



There is a massive difference between Neg/Pos bias which is as a result of the product, and Neg/Pos bias which is as a result of the product name and not product itself.

You don't need to be Einstein to see which @NixxxoN bias is catered towards. This is the person who said we don't need cockpits in racing games all in the effort to defend blacked out cockpits in GT5/6 because it isn't realistic. So I'm sure Nixxon doesn't think we should have chase cam either, or any cam for that matter!

I think mods should not shut up other peoples opinions at all, only modding and to talk and debate they should use a 2nd accont... but meh

"I'm biased because of the product name and others are biased because of the product..." Oh yeah, right... lol. You are so funny.

I can do the same if you want, I can call you BS on that camera shake movement since its a fake thing that I think it doesnt happen in real life and it only annoys you.

 

[Northstar]

I think mods should not shut up other peoples opinions at all,

If that was the case, you would have been banned some time ago, yet here you are still expressing your opinions.

I can do the same if you want, I can call you BS on that camera shake movement since its a fake thing that I think it doesnt happen in real life and it only annoys you.

 

[TS050]

I can do the same if you want, I can call you BS on that camera shake movement since its a fake thing that I think it doesnt happen in real life and it only annoys you.

are you serious