How in the Frank Bruno did Forza III do it?

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You're really trying to be insinuating are you not? Fm2 and 3 are both built on the 360 hardware, porting things over shouldn't be a problem. What are you going on about that makes it incredible that they used almost the same models they had in FM2? What crap are you talking? It's in the dev's best interest to take as detailed information as possible the first time around, that way you won't have to redo things when the hardware catches up to their old LOD limitation. What crap are you talking about with hardware they were using to build the game being less powerful? I don't get what you are talking about here at all.

I think you misunderstood. The computers and hadware that they had available in order to create the models for FM2 was not as powerful as the computers and hardware the used to make FM3. His comment has NOTHING to do with the Xbox360 and what it is capable of.

You are basically talking as if PD wasted time and could only get 200+ cars ready for GT5 and Turn10 with less time got 400+ cars. If this was just about cars alone then you'd have an argument, but it's far from that. More and more things are being listed as confirmed, not sure about you but 200+ cars, real time damage deformation, day to night transitions(real time perhaps), new lighting effects for night time illumination, max 16 cars fields, up to date real courses, painstakingly detailed cars(200 or so), brand new physics engine, integration of NASCAR and it's rules, WRC, rumored go carts, rumored track editor...not to mention a new and integrated online mode, rumored chat as well. Hey btw while they were building this game they had to also stop and build GT PSP...not to shabby.

That's not what he is saying at all. He was merely pointing out that Turn10 remodeled most of the cars that were in the game so that their photomode models looked their best. So the people ragging on Turn10 for using FM2 models for FM3 would be quiet. He wasn't ragging on GT at all.

As much as I wanted all premium cars in GT5, it won't happen, but if all the other mentioned things are in along with 800+ standard cars, I would be pretty happy with what they have accomplished. I'm happy with FM 3, but the longer I played it the more of GT I missed and it's own charms. FM3 is a worthy game, fun and all around great game. Not without it's flaws as are all games, but FM3 is out and therefore it's not going to change what I think of the finished product as it's a done deal. GT5 still has a few months to polish up and be ready for retail. I don't expect much new to be added at all, but I am interested in what else this game might have that we do not know about. Strange how hearing of 800 cars that aren't premium throws so many into a frenzy.

I don't get why you posted this in reference to anything that Devedander said.

20% finished product according to whose numbers? Not sure but you definitely are not on the list of individuals who are writing checks to PD. While PD never stated that the game would have every car detailed to the exact same specification, just because 20% of the cars are like that, doesn't mean the other 80% aren't part of the finished product. If they were really lazy, they wouldn't even implement damage on that 80%. They could cut the 80% and then sell it to us as DLC.

Did you even read what he was replying too? His 20% comment was about FM3, not GT5.

Why can't PD do the same thing and get the same results? Check the list of confirmed things within GT5 and also the end product, then come back and ask that question. Get the facts about things before assuming that someone is taking the easy way around in order to get your hard earned money.

Where did this even come from? He was merely speaking in hypothetical terms. As in, if Forza did this with their FM2 models, can't PD do the same thing with their GT4 models? Geez, quit putting words in his mouth by taking what he said out of context, and adding implications to what he said that were never there to begin with.
 
I guess what Devedander was getting at was that this was posted:
This is what happens when you have to rush something that obviously needs a lot of time to check and double check over again.
When GT5 didn't manage to get 'completed' either. That's saying nothing about the content that's actually making it into the game. But nonetheless, it's not everything that should've went into it, just as Forza hasn't been 'completed'.

Edit:
Well, I guess I'm being kinda slow today. I'm going to think up some kind of an excuse, just give a few min... well, hours...
And sorry for interfering like that, Devedander.
 
Got 1080? lol

Considering you can zoom in pretty far on the FM3 cars and still have very smooth and defined detail it doesn't seem like the final output resolution is much of a reason. ie the models were created at some pretty high LOD regardless.
 
360 released in 2005. Forza3 released in 2009. 4years

PS3 released in 2006. GT5 released in 2010. 4years
Except for one thing. Forza 2, which released on the Xbox 360 in 2007.

With that out now, you obviously are just throwing out statements as facts & not bothering to do any sort of research on your argument. This is in turn, not helping you in any future debates. You're quick to jump on Forza & post false information, but remind us to wait until GT5 is released to make any sort of comments.

TBQH, we already have Tenacious doing that sort of thing, so we don't need another. I think he's a broken record, but *deep breath* at least he presents a valid argument when he really wants to.
 
I don't get whats all the fuss about forza3 is a pretty good game but its not so different from Forza2 i Play GT5P more than Forza3 though, also nothing is wrong with Forza3 cockpit i mean beside looking plastic it all good.
 
There is one thing I will say. Regardless of show room mode or photo mode or whatever, there is ONE thing that Gran Turismo's car models have ALWAYS done better than any other racing game - car model accuracy. Forza's 69 Camaro looks quite good, but the roof line looks a little goofy to me. I see old Camaro's all the time at car shows and the roof in Forza just looks thin as paper; not how a real Camaro looks. Gran Turismo's car models have always had pinpoint accuracy, and I love that. I'm a big nazi when it comes to that sorta stuff.

I agree totally. 👍
 
I don't care how many car models Turn10 can strip-mine, it's not Gran Turismo.

I remember seeing a video of them attaching lines all over some car and using some 3d scanner. I also remember reading somewhere else that they edit any CAD models of cars out there. Maybe they use a bunch of different techniques, and are concerned with just "getting stuff done".

All I know is, there is a huge variance in detail of the Forza 3 car models from 'very nice', to stuff that's just thrown in from Forza 2. But even in photo mode, none are as good as GT5's premium models. (perhaps this is debatable). Also they aren't modelled as component parts like GT5 premium, which I imagine is harder.

The only thing we've seen as high quality as GT5 premium is that Ferrari they showed at e3 for Forza 4.

Anyway, we should stop using bullet points to compare games. This doesn't work for any other gaming genre. No one knocks Blizzard games because they lack features. They are just tangibly better than the competition. All the "little things", touches, time and care taken add up.

I sold my PS2 sometime between GT4:Prologue and GT4 itself. I bought an xbox for the on-line features (MotoGP etc). I bought Forza to try and make up for the loss of the GT series. It was just never the same, not even the excellent on-line could save it (I preferred MotoGp on-line).

I was sucked in again and bought Forza 2, I even bought the special edition with extra cars. Barely played it at all, maybe even less than the first. Forza 2 graphics and car models were crap, Project Gotham looked much better at the time. You can see they had no vision of what to do this generation. Of course along came Polyphony with Prologue and it's insane detail and cockpit views, and suddenly Forza's "vision" becomes "oh we can do that too"

Forza 3 demo was the first time I played Forza and thought... yeah this is actually quite fun, I could play this for a while. It's decent, but I'm not risking buying the game, no matter how cheap I see it now, cause GT is just around the corner and my history of enjoyment of both series couldn't contrast more. I am voting with my wallet on this one.

Turn 10 are improving, and in many ways they tick all the boxes that people want from a car game. But it just doesn't appeal to me, and looking at sales, a lot of people. I don't want a game every year or so that I have to immediately supplement (with 50+% of the cost again via DLC) if I want the full experience. I don't want a game that feels thrown together to meet a tight deadline, with no polish or care in it's details. And they actually really pissed me off with that "definitive racing game this generation" tag-line spouted every other sentence during the reveal last year.

GT just always feels like a game which has been lovingly worked on to make it as good as complete as it can be. Forza has it's merits, livery editor, good on-line and better sound, but it feels thrown together on an assembly line by people looking at what other car games do. They aren't looking to take the genre in any new directions, or produce something that might be considered a "timeless" classic. I never felt strongly about this until Turn10 became quite vocal in their perceived superiority, when for me they make the racing series I've have least fun with.

But different strokes I guess...not saying Forza 4 won't be great, you can guarantee it will shoe-horn in all features GT5 has for a start :)

Holy * I'm procrastinating, back to work.
 
Except for one thing. Forza 2, which released on the Xbox 360 in 2007.

With that out now, you obviously are just throwing out statements as facts & not bothering to do any sort of research on your argument. This is in turn, not helping you in any future debates. You're quick to jump on Forza & post false information, but remind us to wait until GT5 is released to make any sort of comments.

TBQH, we already have Tenacious doing that sort of thing, so we don't need another. I think he's a broken record, but *deep breath* at least he presents a valid argument when he really wants to.

Forza3 is an improved, upgraded Forza2. It does not matter how many games they have made. Forza3 is their latest and best game which uses assets of their previous game. I have already posted the comparison of FOrza2 and Forza3 💡
 
So we should say that GT5's development started with GT4? After all, it does use many, many cars from it.


Anyways, I don't know you guys, but I'm rather disappointed with the car list being divided rather than the differences of the cars themselves. That is, I would rather have those +1000 cars be all standard than having a divided list of cars.
 
My buddy and I play Forza 3 all the time. We have fun racing anything we want. Forza is not a bad game, but you can tell where T10 took shortcuts. As long as there is split screen for GT5, I will be happy and enjoy beating him.
 
I think that PD had to take a different perspective for the development of the project(GT5),if you look back we got the following figures:

GT4 release 2005/

GT5 development 2006(probably)

GTHD release 2006(1 track Eiger Nordwand with 10 cars and the first practical experiment on how the engine will behave,the elements that could be added,resolution to be set and element for the cell processor)

GT5 prologue(mass production of the product with 75 cars and five tracks with the initial adjustments for online racing infrastructure and physics engine for 16 cars)2007

GT5 academy 2010(showing Indy)
since then has been almost three years of development,its not a mathematical formula is just the time that has gone pass,now when we saw the first trailers from the cgs back in 2009 we found new features on the game engine and of course the first track(Tokyo r246).

but then the development had to be shift into GTpsp,what they did was 1+ track for the series and a remake of 90% of the tracks from GT4,and render/optimize 800 cars for GTPSP,therefore the whole GT5 development had to be stopped to complete GTPSP for the franchise,once finish in October 2009.

then PD shifted mayor attention on the development for GT5,by October 2009 to the date we have seen all the mayor features that GT5 has to offer,by March we have seen dates for the release of the product,whereas rumours of being launch were true or false are unknown,but what we have seen so far is a real time replication of the tracks,lets take for a basic example the top gear test tracks,since its an airport its digitalization its quite easy because the lack of complex elements and mayor landmark buildings and so on,take for the crew attending that task about 5 to 6 days(just to take the basic information of track to be digitalized) another group has the task of making a night day transition shadow rendering and takes for another team to take photos of another tracks/locations to be put in the game,another team takes the job of making cars,so the cars have to be scan,then they have to be render and use the development tools to be put in the game,now since we have seen in 2009 the first actual images of car damage,that meant that they had the new engine(different of the GT prologue one because it had to be suited to handle car crashes)working until 2009.

since then there is unknown where the development went,we know that nurburgring,le mans,tuscany(although is fictional it had to be investigated and taken from real world locations)Tokyo,Rome,TG test track,indy track,and the other locations are being developed and integrated into the game engine,since that it has to be say that the weather changes and the day/night transitions had to be adapted to each track,a group of 150 people could not handle this job on the schedule release dates,and the cars(of superb quality) cannot be made by another party company,so they had to render,scan and recreate the cars by themselves,and by the quality of the product they using an great amount of human resources(remember these games are made by something call people)make it more sensible to delays and changes.

as for myself I'm fine with the 200 cars premium because is better to take your group of people and render all the old GT cars to work on the new engine so there will be more variety on the game,and probably there are being pushed by the delays of the game itself,we know by hand that they put attention to the community and try to make them all happy its not easy.

we also know by hand that the development of this game is quite different from others,in racing sim game the engine is design to work with a generic programming(in example windows and C+)so the OS knows how to make it integrate for the hardware components,the same goes for xbox 360 that make its programming simple so the games get develop from an artistic point of view not technical,but since PS3 uses multi core tasking and it doesn't have a clear programming language it development gets hard,but when a good development its made the results are pretty astonishing like what we have seen on uncharted 2 or metal gear solid 4,those things make the strong and the weak on the PS3 system,since GT series has been made in the PS they have to change according to the times.

and in this particular case I will bring the Forza case because it causes debate,if you see two pictures of a premium car and a car in FM3(obviously the forza fan will say that in FM3 looks better)but it doesn't and the same goes for the interior,you find that GT take the whole cockpit(I bet M5 premium will have back seats)you can see everything,the whole 360degree angle view of the cockpit,while Forza design the 60% of the cockpit,and from the exteriors the same happens,better shadowing,better rendering,better detail, etc,by PD.

so now the great discuss goes for:the "standard "cars look better than a FM3 car? I will say I don't think so its pretty obvious that the forza models will look better(mostly because they taking models from old games forza 1 and 2(like the pagani zonda,the zondas in forza are the same models from 2000,you can check that,they are the same model from FM1,and the case of the Lamborghini gallardo,they put the superleggera in the VIP section to be paid and its the 2005 model while in GT5 we're getting the new gallardo with the new tail lights and the reventon style nose)but there are people saying that they will put the same models from GT4,they will but with the rendering and the shadowing techniques used for premium cars,since its all used in the same engine and no further details will put,they probably will re-render and re build the new cars,this will keeping debate until new screnshots will be shown,and knowing PD they will not let the same low quality models run into the new game engine and graphical standards.

while FM3 keeps repeating the formula(same track development and graphics for nuburgring in all forzas,as well for laguna seca and more)PD takes a more realistic approach, I say this because I used to own a xbox 360(I just sold it before it breaks)and I know the quality of most forza games so i just change for ps3,now i regreet of not doing this before(at least it didn't get the stupid RRD)and while turn 10 keeps taking shorcuts on development(I don't blame them development cost have to be cut somehow) I do blame the fact that the show almost 70 to 80 brand new cars(while 320 of them are past cars from forza game they should update the cars.

I will get back to the Lamborghini gallardo,the lambo had an update in 2008,with the new tail light and the reventon style nose,when I bought FM3 I expecting updated versions of a lot of cars(GT-R,lambo gallardo,ferrari 458 italia(replacement from 430))
but they will not be featured or they came in a dlc version,which really annoy me,sure I got masseratis and the new audis but all the new aston martin came in a dlc version,so what is the point of the game while I have to buy each pack just to play with the premium car that I want.

so in around up people just keep in mind that games are made by humans,not computers and while its uncertain why we getting fewer cars than forza,i can bet that is because they put new stuff to the environments and that make it worth it(even more if they put 1000 cars for all those tracks 👍)

people chill out and enjoy the game, don't compare it,if you do ,please be reasonable not a red neck,and if you are a forza fanboy have a go on the last generation GT4 then play GT5 prologue and then forza,see the difference...

(by the way sorry about the spelling mistakes English is my third language :sly: )

Update:

and I almost forgot to mention that PD also participated in the development of this,once FM3 guys makes a car,a real concept car they will get my respect,that is what makes different a Ferrari from a corvette and what makes difference GT from Forza.

 
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If that is true, then T10 really did model 400+ cars in a few years.

Then there is the argument that T10 actually had the high res ones ready in FM2 but just didn't use them yet, making it an easy job to import them to FM3, basically arguing that T10 then didn't really model 400 cars in high quality in a couple of years...

But that is actually MORE impressive because that means T10 modeled them back in FM2 when it was arguably at least as hard or harder.

If that is true, then PD really did model ~1000 cars in a few years.

Then there is the argument that PD actually had the high res ones ready in GT4 but just didn't use them yet, making it an easy job to import them to GT5, basically arguing that PD then didn't really model 1000 cars in high quality in a couple of years...

But that is actually MORE impressive because that means PD modeled them back in GT4 when it was arguably at least as hard or harder.

Funny how it can be turned around while still sticking to the truth, isn't it?
 
Actually it can't... remember Forza 3 has 400+ high res models of cars (showroom/photomode).

GT5 doesn't have 1000 of any kind of car... it has 200 high res cars and 800 of what are basically ports of existing models.

So:

If that is true, then PD really did model ~1000 cars in a few years.

If talking about hi res cars (which is what we were talking about), then no, only 200 of them.

Then there is the argument that PD actually had the high res ones ready in GT4 but just didn't use them yet, making it an easy job to import them to GT5,

There is no argument that the high res models in GT5 were available in GT4. No one has even postulated that. If it WERE true it would mean the last 6 years have been pitifully squandered to an unfathomable extent.

basically arguing that PD then didn't really model 1000 cars in high quality in a couple of years...

PD hasn't modeled 1000 high res cars at all so that makes no sense.

But that is actually MORE impressive because that means PD modeled them back in GT4 when it was arguably at least as hard or harder.

As you can see by how the rest of that was picked apart, this isn't even a possible conclusion anymore.

Funny how it can be turned around while still sticking to the truth, isn't it?

Funny how the desire to be witty and turn something around overrides the logic of the actual situation...

Long story short:

T10 has 400+ high res car models. They had to be modeled at some point. It is possible and likely they were modeled during the dev cycle of FM3 (which I believe was 2 years?).

PD has 200 high res car models. They were modeled during the GT5 6 year dev cycle with pretty much certainty.

Sorry... you can't spin your way out of that one.
 
So we should say that GT5's development started with GT4? After all, it does use many, many cars from it.


Anyways, I don't know you guys, but I'm rather disappointed with the car list being divided rather than the differences of the cars themselves. That is, I would rather have those +1000 cars be all standard than having a divided list of cars.

I Prefer 200 With all those Awesome premium Features, Just because I dont want the most important part of this game (Cars) being Half assed while everything else is Top Notch.
 
I Prefer 200 With all those Awesome premium Features, Just because I dont want the most important part of this game (Cars) being Half assed while everything else is Top Notch.

Sadly, 80% of the game is half assed then...
 
Forza3 is an improved, upgraded Forza2. It does not matter how many games they have made. Forza3 is their latest and best game which uses assets of their previous game. I have already posted the comparison of FOrza2 and Forza3 💡
You posted a biased article, so you're still on the bench as far as I'm concerned.
people chill out and enjoy the game, don't compare it,if you do ,please be reasonable not a red neck,and if you are a forza fanboy have a go on the last generation GT4 then play GT5 prologue and then forza,see the difference...
And with this, you just threw your whole argument out the window.

Don't tell us not to compare it after writing an essay about why GT is better. :rolleyes:

and I almost forgot to mention that PD also participated in the development of this,once FM3 guys makes a car,a real concept car they will get my respect,that is what makes different a Ferrari from a corvette and what makes difference GT from Forza.
So a game developer has to develop a real car for you to get their respect?

Chalking that up to the list of "Dumbest arguments for a video game".
 
Sadly, 80% of the game is half assed then...

Becuase they ran out of time. That's a reason, not an excuse.

They could have modelled all the cars at a level somewhere between standard and premium, and GT5 would have been great! But when the PS4 comes around, and the possibility of another GT game or two, they would have to re-model them again to bring them up to the standards expected of that generation of gaming. They could have made this game half assed by making all of the cars average. Instead they chose to model them to the highest level of detail that they could create. They obviously misjudged how long it would take.

We will hate them for it now, but it will cut down development time in later games, providing they continue making them. Which they probably will, for at least another 10 years.
 
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I see people mentioning that Forza 3 used Forza 2 models with the qualifier "without even fixing the problems," and I have to ask why that somehow matters.
 
Becuase they ran out of time. That's a reason, not an excuse.
It's neither. It's time management, or rather, the lack thereof.

They could have modelled all the cars at a level somewhere between standard and premium, and GT5 would have been great! But when the PS4 comes around, and the possibility of another GT game or two, they would have to re-model them again to bring them up to the standards expected of that generation of gaming. They could have made this game half assed by making all of the cars average. Instead they chose to model them to the highest level of detail that they could create. They obviously misjudged how long it would take.

We will hate them for it now, but it will cut down development time in later games, providing they continue making them. Which they probably will, for at least another 10 years.
Just to get this straight...

100% 'average' cars = GT5 half assed.
20% perfect cars and 80% crap cars = GT5 not half assed

Because it might make GT6 better? You're joking, right?
 
Becuase they ran out of time. That's a reason, not an excuse.

The two are not mutually exclusive also that's only an assumption.

Actually it doesn't sound like a very reasonable assumption either. Think about this, it takes months to model a single car... don't you think 6 months to a year into it they would realize this is not feasible, we need to go back to change up the game plan? The only way they "ran out of time" is if they somehow didn't realize until relatively recently that this wasn't gonna be doable at this level. No one with Jr High algebra would be that daft.

If anything it seems more reasonable that KY had planned this from the get go, but knowing the response it would get early on he carefully planned the progress to reveal as late in the game as possible.

Either way, you don't know for a fact they ran out of time, you only know (at least according to descriptions of how long the modeling takes) that to do all the cars to the high quality spec would take way more time than any of us want to wait. The two are not the same.

They could have modelled all the cars at a level somewhere between standard and premium, and GT5 would have been great! But when the PS4 comes around, and the possibility of another GT game or two, they would have to re-model them again to bring them up to the standards expected of that generation of gaming.

You mean like T10 did with FM3 cars for the showroom? Granted those models didn't make it into gameplay, but they did get made.

Or do you mean just import them as is and have them look way worse than the cars they create for the next gen game?

And why is it better to sacrafice this games content to protect the dev cycle of the next game?

They modeled the GT4 cars to a much higher spec than they could use on the PS2 to provide future proofing but look where that got them. Really trying to future proof anything tech related is a crapshoot at best because how technology progresses is not necessarily a linear path. All that has to happen is something unforseen comes up and all your previous future proof work is out the window.

That and KY has already said GT6 will take much less time than GT5 I would think strongly hinting that GT6 is on the way for PS3 sometime reasonably soon... that is unless they built this whole thing from scratch customized for PS3 just to either port it to PS4 or rebuild again, neither of which make sense.

They could have made this game half assed by making all of the cars average. Instead they chose to model them to the highest level of detail that they could create. They obviously misjudged how long it would take.

They could have done a lot of things, but misjudged? We are talking PD here... they have cranked out what 6 full GT games now and you think they misjudged modeling time frame by a factor of 5? I somehow can't really buy into that... Like I said before, they must have known pretty fast that this method wasn't gonna cut it for any reasonable timeline, it makes no sense that they just ran out of time...

What like last year around TGS they said "Hey, you know what, we are only 15% done modeling cars, do you think we will make it by sometime in the reasonable future for release?

No... makes no sense.

We will hate them for it now, but it will cut down development time in later games, providing they continue making them. Which they probably will, for at least another 10 years.

That's another assumption. I think it's a pretty safe one that they have nailed the core engines down, so I would hope future dev involves just working off that platform (for a much faster turnaround) but again, only assumptions at best.

What we know is that 80% of this game is sub par.
 
Just to get this straight...

100% 'average' cars = GT5 half assed.
20% perfect cars and 80% crap cars = GT5 not half assed

Because it might make GT6 better? You're joking, right?

No, i'm saying both ways are half arsed :lol:

We were expecting 1000 cars with cockpits and 200k+ poly models. We were let down. Because at some point, they realised they could not finish the project they started (At that point, they had already run out of time). But they had to commit one way or another, and they chose to develop the cars to a high standard, not to reduce the level of detail in their models to meet a release deadline. That fits into KY's vision of the game he wants to create, rather than the game the consumers are asking for.

But I like what they have done because it's good for the future. Though I wish they could have spent a little less time on features and a little more time on cars and tracks. That is my opinion, and I accept that you guys disagree with that :)
 
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I don't understand why Forza 3 is being dragged in here; it has no place in this discussion and I'll try to elaborate and explain why the standard cars are a not just a miscalculation, but a necessity.

First of all, Forza 3 is a fine title. A great racing game that can be thoroughly enjoyed by racing enthusiasts. With all the features it has I'm sure the 360 community loves it. However - and this is the main reasoning behind my argument - Turn10 lack the development skills that PD have honed throughout the years with the GT series. This is apparent via obvious reasons and reasons that elude our logic to a certain extent.

Looking at the car models themselves it is apparent that some models look better than others whilst some have many errors in their exterior shell. The modeling is questionable throughout. Again, for the casual gamer this is not a problem at all and one can argue that is isn't even for the enthusiast. However, it doesn't end there; the interiors are also lacking detail in many cars and contain errors. The hand animation speaks volumes: it simply looks like two rubber hands.

The GT series has always been about details; making sure that the cars not only represent their real counterpart, but also have their characteristics. One can argue Forza does the same, yet to me it always seems lacking.

However, the biggest problem I personally have with Forza concerns with its "soul"; there is none for me. I'll explain. The GT series has a certain shine, a certain quality to it that reaches to its very core; the base machinations with which the title itself is played out. This goes from the menu's to the car info, the dealerships, the music, the car wash, the world map, the racing, the replays. It - to me - is undeniable and permeates the barrier of game and car enthusiast; the GT series has outgrown the "game" label.

This brings certain unfavorable factors into play - such as the core gameplay - but more than anything elevates GT to heights no other racing "game" can ever reach. To me GT is a car enthusiasts guide; a fine line where the product delivers so much more than gameplay; it delivers a way of life; it understands the heart of a car lover; a racing fan, a classic car nut; it transcends itself to deliver what matters: absolute passion for the automobile.

In light of the above, to me other car "games" are just that: games that while fun, deliver no more and no less.

The standard cars look great; arguably better quality than most others models out there in different products. PD are deliver OVER 200 premium models that are delivering a new standard in digital technology; a work of art, of passion to the extreme. Isn't it too much to ask them to do the same for over 800 cars? Using your ability to think rationally the answer must be: yes, it is too much to ask in the time they are given and the high quality product they are delivering.

At the same time the GT series is doing things no one else is doing )to the same standard): great damage system, day-night, weather, great tracks, incredible selection of cars, great detail in every aspect of their product. I believe that GT5 will deliver; not just a great racing game, but a quality product that is unprecedented.

If you are like me - a car aficionado - you will accept the standard cars as a great addition using the new physics engine, dirt and scratches: it simply looks stunning.

However, if you're wanting a racing game only than it seems those are concerned more with the concept of standard cars; dare I say those do not fully appreciate the full product we are getting?

To conclude; we have no control concerning this choice. Why waste energy trying to control something that is clearly out of your hands? Sure, I understand frustration. My advice: let your voice be heard and accept the situation as it is. Anyone with ratio will tell you that your time is more valuable if pursuing something that is worth it and something that you can control; otherwise one has lost sight of efficiency and is no more than someone who detects a problem, criticizes it and leaves it at that. If the situation is not controllable; accept is and move on.
 
Sadly, 80% of the game is half assed then...

Well Not 80% of the game, 80% of the cars that Is :guilty:

Becuase they ran out of time. That's a reason, not an excuse.

They could have modelled all the cars at a level somewhere between standard and premium, and GT5 would have been great! But when the PS4 comes around, and the possibility of another GT game or two, they would have to re-model them again to bring them up to the standards expected of that generation of gaming. They could have made this game half assed by making all of the cars average. Instead they chose to model them to the highest level of detail that they could create. They obviously misjudged how long it would take.

We will hate them for it now, but it will cut down development time in later games, providing they continue making them. Which they probably will, for at least another 10 years.

But, Dont you think Its better to Do things for the current Time, What we're seeing here Is the fact that this kind of Car modelling planning Just dont work.

I can remember they saying that they modeled GT4 cars that good so they can be used in GT5, but they didnt took account of a small Detail, Those were amazing Models for 2005, but not for 2010, and now they are doing the same, and We just cant know for sure these Premium Models will be As amazing as they are right now in a 5-8 year time.

So why not create Car models For the PS3 Instead of using PS2 Models and Creating PS4 Models?:dunce:
 
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