How in the Frank Bruno did Forza III do it?

[McLaren]

Che Chou... Why does that name sound familiar?

If you're on the NeoGAF forums, you'll know he is a ridiculous Forza troll constantly berating GT & other games. I myself, got banned from a thread at FM's forums because I pointed out his incorrect info on GT5 & then got a nasty PM telling me to stop being a fanboy.

 

[Devedander]

Dev, as usual, you need someone to give you a serious time out with some of your rants.

You have no idea what the "game plan" was, specifically. No one does. It's a safe bet that when the net reacted badly to the original notion of GT HD, and even GT4 HD, Kazunori presented this to the suits at SONY Japan and convinced them to let him make the Gran Turismo he wanted to on PS3, with extremely detailed cars and tracks. And they gave him the green light.

So no one knows what really happened but your theory of what really happened is a safe bet?

My theory is that it started out the same, everyone gave GT4HD a thumbs down (which he didn't expect, just like he didn't expect the big thumbs down form no damage) and he gave in a little and realized that to sell well he would have to have more to offer. So he put in a little something to be sellable on top of the original GTHD plan and that's where we are today.

And my theory is just as safe a bet if not more so than yours.

And then, the hardware guys at SONY came up with a new PSP, the Go!, and they needed a killer app.

Ummm wasn't GT4 mobile announced in 2004? So yeah... safe bet theory not lookin so solid.

GT5 is his monument game, his crowning achievement, and he didn't want to jeopardize this.

He sure went to a lot of car shows and races while his monument achievement fell behind schedule... in fact I would say GT Academy is shaping up to be his new monument achievement.

It could have taken two years to take GT4, improve it, make it bigger, and then squeeze something from 6-9 gig in size to just one. That's extreme compression, and I'm amazed it even works!

I am not questioning it's impressive what they crammed into one gig, it's a lot to do with required detail level. Many games on the PSP don't get over a gig, I think at least some of the GTA games were well under a gig.

And so what shape was GT5 in when SONY was dangling it as a 2009 holiday release title? There was a good chance that it was only 140 cars or so, and 15 track locations. Kaz was probably very upset.

Lots of chances, probablies and assumptions in your shure bet.

And then, possibly because of the complaining about the damage model, he begged for more time, and evidently he got another eight months.

At least we have similar view here... I don't recall that view being so popular when I kept saying it back around TGS and everyone kept telling me no, that original E3 promo video proved damage was in from the get.

Imagine the hissies you guys would have thrown, if GT5 would have released with only 100 some odd Premium Cars.

You mean imagine how dissapointed I would rightfully be? Yeah... don't have to imagine, it's a pretty straightforward answer there.

All this is speculation, but it's based on some solid landmarks based on interviews and press releases over the past four years. And it's certainly more solid than anything you've come up with.

Maybe according to you, but I have come up with completely different and just as detailed (and just as speculative) ideas behind what went on that are just as likely if not more so.

End of story, at best we are here because of a sob story, at worst because this was the plan all along and we got lied to.

I know which way I lean but the end result is still the same and I don't see how it's not worthy of noteable dissapointment.

 

[Devedander]

Go out and do it better than PD if you are so sure that it is possible.

Ah yes... the old back agains the wall, not a leg to stand on, turn to offense for a defense.

How do we not all know by now you don't have to be able to do it better to say that someone else did it poorly? I can't throw a game winning hail mary, but I sure know when an off balance across the body through goes out, that was done wrong.

Quit crying, don't buy the game, and LEAVE.

Sorry, I missed the sign that said forum for fanboys only... I thought it just said stuff like speculation, rumor and discussion.

Hey I got an idea... if you should leave when you don't like something enough to start complaining about it...

There is no point to your whining and tom-foolery. No one has gypped you, no one has lied to you, no one has deceived you, NO ONE BUT YOURSELVES.

And so who wronged you so badly that it's time for your whining and tom-foolery?

And I can only speak for myself, but the ones who lied and decieved me were PD and their marketing, KY and his evasive interview answers and last but certainly not least, GTP fanboys who insist on spreading desire like fact and squashing any critical opinion as if it's balsphemous.

No one OWES any of YOU ANYTHING.

Owes me something? When did I say someone owes me something? As a consumer who is being courted to let go of his hard earned dollars I have every right to express my opinion on the subject.

Don't get your panties in such a bunch about me getting my panties in a bunch... at least I have a legitimate reason to be doing it and this is a legitimate place to do it... you are just bringing the pain on yourself.

 

[Tenacious D]

And my theory is just as safe a bet if not more so than yours.

You're kidding... right? I mean, I only have to mention one thing to illustrate how you argue:

Ummm wasn't GT4 mobile announced in 2004? So yeah... safe bet theory not lookin so solid.

Yeah... proposed. Have a release date, Professor?

How many times did Kazunori insist that GT Mobile would be worked on after GT5 was out? He mentioned it in several interviews, to the point that a few people here lamented it.

Go back to class.

 

[Tornado]

Ummm wasn't GT4 mobile announced in 2004? So yeah... safe bet theory not lookin so solid.

GT4 Mobile was almost certainly canceled (or, more likely, never even started) before even GTHD was announced, nevermind GT5 proper. GTPSP probably was, based on how it turned out, a quickie game forced on PD by Sony to get ready for the PSP Go launch.

 

[RedSuinit]

Ah yes... the old back agains the wall, not a leg to stand on, turn to offense for a defense.

Devedander, do you know what your reputation is around here? A flame-baiter and a complainer of all things GT. It doesn't matter what the new is, good or bad, you complain about it. That's pretty much the only thing you do here. A quick glance at your post history will show that to anyone. I am not trying to win an argument or get anyone else to agree with me (unlike yourself) I am simply fed up with the forums being crapped on with all of this stupid, and moronic posting.

How do we not all know by now you don't have to be able to do it better to say that someone else did it poorly? I can't throw a game winning hail mary, but I sure know when an off balance across the body through goes out, that was done wrong.

Sorry, I missed the sign that said forum for fanboys only... I thought it just said stuff like speculation, rumor and discussion.

Whining is NOT on the same level as discussion.

Hey I got an idea... if you should leave when you don't like something enough to start complaining about it...

And so who wronged you so badly that it's time for your whining and tom-foolery?

And I can only speak for myself, but the ones who lied and decieved me were PD and their marketing, KY and his evasive interview answers and last but certainly not least, GTP fanboys who insist on spreading desire like fact and squashing any critical opinion as if it's balsphemous.

Owes me something? When did I say someone owes me something? As a consumer who is being courted to let go of his hard earned dollars I have every right to express my opinion on the subject.

Don't get your panties in such a bunch about me getting my panties in a bunch... at least I have a legitimate reason to be doing it and this is a legitimate place to do it... you are just bringing the pain on yourself.

My panties are in a bunch because these forums are being polluted by senseless and rather droll complaints on a subject that WILL NOT CHANGE.

 

[gtracedriver]

That was biased.

I've played both games enough to tell the difference without a comparison looking for terrible screenshots & lighting to prove a point.


Once more, if you had done your research on Forza, you'd know that nobody believes a word Che Chou says.

Posts like this will never make much sense for any game.

Just as there may not be a point to the debate, there is also no reason why folks like you should be able to demand people stop discussing anything & tell people to leave or shut up. As the famous ol' saying goes,

Who died & made you king?

I don't believe this guy too 👎
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=225192

The fact of the matter is there is considerable difference between photomode and the game car details.

Also in Forza3 they have taken the fake lightning, reflections and improved car models and improved textures too from Forza2 which makes the game look much better and less cartoonish. Some cars though look very look like Forza2

Everyone believe, what they want to believe.

 

[Devedander]

You're kidding... right? I mean, I only have to mention one thing to illustrate how you argue:


Yeah... proposed. Have a release date, Professor?

How many times did Kazunori insist that GT Mobile would be worked on after GT5 was out? He mentioned it in several interviews, to the point that a few people here lamented it.

Go back to class.

Just pulling my info from here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GT4_Mobile

You can argue with them if you want.

And as for cancelled I believe that was ever officially confirmed so I will pull the GTP standard request for source for this fact.

I am not saying KY wouldn't have preferred to work on GTPSP after GT5... I was only saying GTPSP solely as a Go game forced by Sony hasn't got much to back it up.

 

[RedSuinit]

Just pulling my info from here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GT4_Mobile

You can argue with them if you want.

And as for cancelled I believe that was ever officially confirmed so I will pull the GTP standard request for source for this fact.

I am not saying KY wouldn't have preferred to work on GTPSP after GT5... I was only saying GTPSP solely as a Go game forced by Sony hasn't got much to back it up.

Wikipedia?! WIKIPEDIA?! THAT'S your source??? That's about as reliable as a drunk is on the job.

 

[JDMKING13]

Wikipedia?! WIKIPEDIA?! THAT'S your source??? That's about as reliable as a drunk is on the job.

 

[Devedander]

Devedander, do you know what your reputation is around here? A flame-baiter and a complainer of all things GT.

I am well aware of that. Do you know what Galileo Galilei's reputation was at the time? Reputation isn't all it's cracked up to be.

It doesn't matter what the new is, good or bad, you complain about it. That's pretty much the only thing you do here.

Only goes to show you are predispositioned to believe what you think... I do like some things about what GT5 is shaping up to be, I am just more honest than most about what I don't like and the fact that very little is solely positive (for instance I am very interested in WRC getting into GT5 but I have no qualms about the fact we haven't seen anything that really seems outstanding about rally yet). I like the idea of go karts and don't think for a second I don't love the high res premium models.

But the problem is that PD (and GTP) have hyped up GT to the point that almost anything that isn't top notch news is a negative.

Add to that the fact that this is a forum full of fanboys (which almost any game forum is so just sayin) which makes even the most baseline realist look totally negative.

Whining is NOT on the same level as discussion.

Neither is fanboy denial and fantasizing. But at least I am logical with my point of view and don't rely on the standard "fact" that KY and PD are going to crank out something great no question about it and they are infallible and they are our friends and we think the same etc etc etc fanboyisms.

My panties are in a bunch because these forums are being polluted by senseless and rather droll complaints on a subject that WILL NOT CHANGE.

And they are polluted by fanboy sentiment that couldn't be rocked if GT5 turned out to be a direct port of RC Pro AM.

BTW the subject does change regularly... it was damage, then it was trees, then it was skid marks and sound and now graphics...

What doesn't change is that there are always things to speculate on and what else doesn't change is that the speculation is just as easily negative as positive. Given that the facts we get back up the negative speculation relatively often it hardly seems unfair or out of place to have it.

 

[Tornado]

I was only saying GTPSP solely as a Go game forced by Sony hasn't got much to back it up.

It went completely underground with no news immediately after announcement, and returned as basically a completely different game 5 years later as a surprise launch title for the PSP Go. I wouldn't be surprised if the game actually had a 9 month or less development time (in fact, I would be very surprised if it took any longer than that), nor would I be surprised if no one was actually working on it between its announcement in 2004 and its reinvention in 2009.

 

[JDMKING13]

I don't believe this guy too 👎
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=225192

The fact of the matter is there is considerable difference between photomode and the game car details.

Also in Forza3 they have taken the fake lightning, reflections and improved car models and improved textures too from Forza2 which makes the game look much better and less cartoonish. Some cars though look very look like Forza2

Everyone believe, what they want to believe.

I play and actually like Forza3 but any person who plays the game a lot will tell you Forza3 is Forza2 in new skin

 

[Devedander]

It went completely underground with no news immediately after announcement, and returned as basically a completely different game 5 years later as a surprise launch title for the PSP Go. I wouldn't be surprised if the game actually had a 9 month or less development time (in fact, I would be very surprised if it took any longer than that), nor would I be surprised if no one was actually working on it between its announcement in 2004 and its reinvention in 2009.

Could be... and I believed a large part of GT5s non xmas 09 release was the nasty response to damage and F3 putting up an impressive bullet point list. But I was reminded quite heavily that is just an assumption... as is the assumption about GTPSP.

However if GTPSP did only get less than 9 months it would put a pretty serious dent in the theory that PD lost over a year of dev time from GT5 over it...

 

[Tornado]

However if GTPSP did only get less than 9 months it would put a pretty serious dent in the theory that PD lost over a year of dev time from GT5 over it...

I highly doubt that it took a year either, but it did pull members away from GT5 to work on what is essentially a completely different game. That sort of thing plays absolute havoc with programming teams.

 

[James2097]

How do we not all know by now you don't have to be able to do it better to say that someone else did it poorly? I can't throw a game winning hail mary, but I sure know when an off balance across the body through goes out, that was done wrong.

And I can only speak for myself, but the ones who lied and decieved me were PD and their marketing, KY and his evasive interview answers and last but certainly not least, GTP fanboys who insist on spreading desire like fact and squashing any critical opinion as if it's balsphemous.

Owes me something? When did I say someone owes me something? As a consumer who is being courted to let go of his hard earned dollars I have every right to express my opinion on the subject.

Don't get your panties in such a bunch about me getting my panties in a bunch... at least I have a legitimate reason to be doing it and this is a legitimate place to do it... you are just bringing the pain on yourself.

Good job at staying reasonably polite. After this post, I'm ignoring RedSuinit, such a GT tragic, can't deal with anyone discussing any less than stellar aspects despite there being a lot of new stuff to talk about, and some of it is sadly genuinely disappointing. Demanding quite sharply and rudely that everyone stop being critical isn't winning him any fans... and he just did the same thing to me in the standard/premium car thread. Despite us discussing things intelligently, giving thoughtful views in threads created expressly to discuss issues he's telling everyone off for discussing.

He deserves a warning/banning if anyone can be bothered. I can't be bothered, have said my two cents.

 

[RedSuinit]

I am well aware of that. Do you know what Galileo Galilei's reputation was at the time? Reputation isn't all it's cracked up to be.

You're actually comparing yourself to Galileo? Don't flatter yourself. There was no evidence to prove he was wrong. He was declared wrong by the Church in order to sustain clerical hierarchy. There is plenty of evidence to show that you are what your reputation precedes you to be. As I said before, a look at your post history says it all.

Only goes to show you are predispositioned to believe what you think... I do like some things about what GT5 is shaping up to be, I am just more honest than most about what I don't like and the fact that very little is solely positive (for instance I am very interested in WRC getting into GT5 but I have no qualms about the fact we haven't seen anything that really seems outstanding about rally yet). I like the idea of go karts and don't think for a second I don't love the high res premium models.

Yet all you do is complain. Funny how you suddenly talk about something you like when confronted with what you actually do around here.

But the problem is that PD (and GTP) have hyped up GT to the point that almost anything that isn't top notch news is a negative.

Yet I have not partaken in any of this. I am not happy about that crap either.

Add to that the fact that this is a forum full of fanboys (which almost any game forum is so just sayin) which makes even the most baseline realist look totally negative.

You aren't a realist though. You're a pessimist. You do not talk about any positives, only what you perceive as a negative, and then you blow it out of proportion.

Neither is fanboy denial and fantasizing. But at least I am logical with my point of view and don't rely on the standard "fact" that KY and PD are going to crank out something great no question about it and they are infallible and they are our friends and we think the same etc etc etc fanboyisms.

I am logical with my point of view as well. All of my posts are based around a logical argument (save for a FEW of my rants, even then it's not many). Your point here is?

And they are polluted by fanboy sentiment that couldn't be rocked if GT5 turned out to be a direct port of RC Pro AM.

One of those people, I am not. I don't like the foolish fanboyism anymore than I do your over the top pessimism.

BTW the subject does change regularly... it was damage, then it was trees, then it was skid marks and sound and now graphics...

With all of these subjects, you were on the GT bashing side of ALL of them. Case in point.

What doesn't change is that there are always things to speculate on and what else doesn't change is that the speculation is just as easily negative as positive. Given that the facts we get back up the negative speculation relatively often it hardly seems unfair or out of place to have it.

Negative speculation is one thing. Senseless complaining is another. You are a part of the camp doing the latter. Always have been, probably always will be. This whole subject just needs to be dropped because it is POINTLESS. I will say and have said the same thing about pointless fanboyish posts. If it serves no useful point or purpose, I don't care for it.

Good job at staying reasonably polite. After this post, I'm ignoring RedSuinit, such a GT tragic, can't deal with anyone discussing any less than stellar aspects despite there being a lot of new stuff to talk about, and some of it is sadly genuinely disappointing. Demanding quite sharply and rudely that everyone stop being critical isn't winning him any fans... and he just did the same thing to me in the standard/premium car thread. Despite us discussing things intelligently, giving thoughtful views in threads created expressly to discuss issues he's telling everyone off for discussing.

He deserves a warning/banning if anyone can be bothered. I can't be bothered, have said my two cents.

Yes, please ignore me. I simply am tired of the repetitive complaining of a topic that won't change. You are beating a dead horse, so what is the point? Oh, and what exactly do I deserve a warning/ban for? Have I broken the AUP in some way? Can't handle someone disagreeing with you?

Are you seriously referring to THIS post?

Clearly you haven't heard the news of: Weather, day to night shifts, go karting, TRACK EDITOR, 200+ PREMIUM models that are practically TRUE TO LIFE, NASCAR, WRC, the list continues to grow. If you think that is not a VERY high standard, you're delusional. That is a TON of content for one game. PERIOD.

If so, the sooner you ignore me, the better.

 

[JDMKING13]

Good job at staying reasonably polite. After this post, I'm ignoring RedSuinit, such a GT tragic, can't deal with anyone discussing any less than stellar aspects despite there being a lot of new stuff to talk about, and some of it is sadly genuinely disappointing. Demanding quite sharply and rudely that everyone stop being critical isn't winning him any fans... and he just did the same thing to me in the standard/premium car thread. Despite us discussing things intelligently, giving thoughtful views in threads created expressly to discuss issues he's telling everyone off for discussing.

He deserves a warning/banning if anyone can be bothered. I can't be bothered, have said my two cents.

Im with Red but i don't want to be rude to anybody i respect everyone opinion, however if you look at the big picture we are going to get the best console racer on Nov 2. I will put GT5 with its 200 preiuims cars and all its new features against any racing game today on a console and it will beat it.

I will put those 800 cars with new GT5 physics and gt5 features and it will be better than any other racing game on a console.

In the end nothing going to change if we say were all GT5 fans, yes lets talk about the bad but lets also move on. Its so much good we can talk about dealing with GT5 that out does the bad 👍

 

[James2097]

Yes, please ignore me. I simply am tired of the repetitive complaining of a topic that won't change. You are beating a dead horse, so what is the point? Oh, and what exactly do I deserve a warning/ban for? Have I broken the AUP in some way? Can't handle someone disagreeing with you?

Its not a dead horse if everyone is still talking about it, which they are, and have every right to. You don't have the right to boss them around and attack them just for voicing legitimate concerns because you find it boring. As you probably know by now - I don't have a problem with your opinion, I have a problem with the way you've been expressing it. I hope my use of the past-tense in that sentence is accurate.

Are you seriously referring to THIS post? (was a post in another thread)

If so, the sooner you ignore me, the better.

Hadn't seen that post yet to be honest. I'll reply to it in the relevant thread, not here.

 

[RedSuinit]

Its not a dead horse if everyone is still talking about it, which they are, and have every right to. You don't have the right to boss them around and attack them just for voicing legitimate concerns because you find it boring. As you probably know by now - I don't have a problem with your opinion, I have a problem with the way you've been expressing it. I hope my use of the past-tense in that sentence is accurate.

Hadn't seen that post yet to be honest. I'll reply to it in the relevant thread, not here.

No, everyone talking about it doesn't mean it's not a dead horse. That's part of what that phrase means. It's dead, but you're still talking about it. Beating a dead horse. The subject has been covered, and extensively so. This is my opinion on this, so why should I not be allowed to express it. I have every right to. I am not bossing anyone around, I am simply saying that it's dead, just drop it.

 

[JDMKING13]

No, everyone talking about it doesn't mean it's not a dead horse. That's part of what that phrase means. It's dead, but you're still talking about it. Beating a dead horse. The subject has been covered, and extensively so. This is my opinion on this, so why should I not be allowed to express it. i have very right to. I am not bossing anyone around, I am simply saying that it's dead, just drop it.

👍 Nothing is going to change GT5 will be better than all other racing game on all consoles. Saying that majority of people are going to buy GT5 and enjoy it.

 

[Devedander]

You're actually comparing yourself to Galileo? Don't flatter yourself.

Apparently reading comprehension > you?

I literally said "Reputation isn't all it's cracked up to be." That's what I was illustrating, I was not saying I made discoveries on par with the world being round.

There was no evidence to prove he was wrong. He was declared wrong by the Church in order to sustain clerical hierarchy. There is plenty of evidence to show that you are what your reputation precedes you to be.

The logic in that argument totally jumpted the rails mid way... you go from evidence that he was wrong (and not anything about his reputation) to evidence that my reputation is accurate. In case you aren't aware, this is a commmon trait for you.

Yet all you do is complain. Funny how you suddenly talk about something you like when confronted with what you actually do around here.

Funny how I have actually talked about it before you brought it up but you are too convinced I never say anything good to see it. But I imagine that's what it takes to be a fanboy... you must be able to ignore what's there so you can preserve your point of views validity.

Yet I have not partaken in any of this. I am not happy about that crap either.

Congratulations?

You aren't a realist though. You're a pessimist. You do not talk about any positives, only what you perceive as a negative, and then you blow it out of proportion.

What's left to talk about positives? I told you already I was all positived out by the hype and marketing up until about a year ago.

At this point I have lost faith which means I no longer ignore the second side of the double edged blades. I don't talk about the positives so much because, what's there to talk about? It's about what I expected all along, the negatives however are discussion worthy since they are generally a new revelation.

I am logical with my point of view as well. All of my posts are based around a logical argument (save for a FEW of my rants, even then it's not many). Your point here is?

I beg to differ. You may think you are logical and sound in your statements but really it's usually just an expression of your disdain and dislike for what is happening around and your desire that it stop. Also I believe you consistenly make issues like chastising others for going on opinion then refute their opinion with your opinion.

One of those people, I am not. I don't like the foolish fanboyism anymore than I do your over the top pessimism.

There are far more fanboyish members here than you to be sure, but your denial of the negative and disdain for even the expression of negative puts you squarely in the fanboy realm, although probably not at the extreme end of it.

With all of these subjects, you were on the GT bashing side of ALL of them. Case in point.

I don't think I ever particularly voiced much car about trees and skid marks beyond the fact that I pointed out when those who voiced legitimate issue with them were chided for no good reason (basically called out fanboy bullying).

Damage I was neck deep in because I care a lot about that... and look how things turned out...

Negative speculation is one thing. Senseless complaining is another. You are a part of the camp doing the latter. Always have been, probably always will be. This whole subject just needs to be dropped because it is POINTLESS. I will say and have said the same thing about pointless fanboyish posts. If it serves no useful point or purpose, I don't care for it.

Is it senseless if I care about it? I am sure if it doesn't bother you it seems senseless, but that alone dose not make it senseless.

And what exactly do you mean by senseless? Do you mean as in nothing can come of it? I was told the same thing about damage, I was told people knew KY and thought like him and his style and this and that, some were down right creepy in their apparently connections to KY... I don't think it's ever senseless to voice your opinion. It might not result in a direct change now but in the end enough drops make an ocean.

Besides, this is a forum for discussion... discussion doesn't always mean a circlejerk (sorry for the term, can't think of a better one) sometimes it means debate.

And to be honest, if people didn't jump in and try to tell people like me why we are wrong to care, shouldn't care or what we care about is incorrect (ie people telling us that standard cars look just fine and are current gen and we are incorrect for being unhappy about them) it would all be pretty much over and done with pretty quickly.

If anything people like you are masacistic. A good 80% of the negative posts here are in response and defense to posts telling them they are senseless, wrong or pointless. What do you really expect to happen in those situations?

Yes, please ignore me. I simply am tired of the repetitive complaining of a topic that won't change. You are beating a dead horse, so what is the point? Oh, and what exactly do I deserve a warning/ban for? Have I broken the AUP in some way? Can't handle someone disagreeing with you?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but honestly the critical posts have gone on for who knows how long around here, you are aware of it as much as anyone and it's part of the forum, it's part of the internet and it's part of life.

Now knowing that, who is flogging the dead horse here?

 

[RedSuinit]

Apparently reading comprehension > you?

I literally said "Reputation isn't all it's cracked up to be." That's what I was illustrating, I was not saying I made discoveries on par with the world being round.

Never said you were claiming that. What I was saying is that Galileo's reputation was constructed by forces intent on destroying his credibility, and wasn't founded in facts. Your reputation on the other hand, is founded upon the repeated style of writing in your posts on a regular basis. Such as your pessimism and negativity.

The logic in that argument totally jumpted the rails mid way... you go from evidence that he was wrong (and not anything about his reputation) to evidence that my reputation is accurate. In case you aren't aware, this is a commmon trait for you.

Clearly you forgot that Galileo's reputation was founded upon the declaration of his discoveries as being incorrect by the Church. The two are directly related, I didn't think I would have to spell it our for you, you seem like a very intelligent individual.

Funny how I have actually talked about it before you brought it up but you are too convinced I never say anything good to see it. But I imagine that's what it takes to be a fanboy... you must be able to ignore what's there so you can preserve your point of views validity.

If this is true, I owe you an apology.

Congratulations?

It appeared that you were insinuating I was a fanboy. Based on this most recent statement, I guess you were.

What's left to talk about positives? I told you already I was all positived out by the hype and marketing up until about a year ago.

What's left to talk about the negatives? How many more angles can you approach this standard cars talk from?

At this point I have lost faith which means I no longer ignore the second side of the double edged blades. I don't talk about the positives so much because, what's there to talk about? It's about what I expected all along, the negatives however are discussion worthy since they are generally a new revelation.

I beg to differ. You may think you are logical and sound in your statements but really it's usually just an expression of your disdain and dislike for what is happening around and your desire that it stop. Also I believe you consistenly make issues like chastising others for going on opinion then refute their opinion with your opinion.

Would love to know what was going through your head when you typed this.

There are far more fanboyish members here than you to be sure, but your denial of the negative and disdain for even the expression of negative puts you squarely in the fanboy realm, although probably not at the extreme end of it.

I don't have disdain for the negative, but (as I stated before) how many angles can you approach this standard cars talk from?

I don't think I ever particularly voiced much car about trees and skid marks beyond the fact that I pointed out when those who voiced legitimate issue with them were chided for no good reason (basically called out fanboy bullying).

So because other people voiced an opinion that they didn't think the concerns over such subjects had any merit, make it fanboy bullying?

Damage I was neck deep in because I care a lot about that... and look how things turned out...

Sorry, but KY had said they were going to have a real-time damage model with deformation LONG before we had seen any preliminary attempts at damage modeling.

Is it senseless if I care about it? I am sure if it doesn't bother you it seems senseless, but that alone dose not make it senseless.

You are right about this.

And what exactly do you mean by senseless? Do you mean as in nothing can come of it? I was told the same thing about damage, I was told people knew KY and thought like him and his style and this and that, some were down right creepy in their apparently connections to KY... I don't think it's ever senseless to voice your opinion. It might not result in a direct change now but in the end enough drops make an ocean.

Read above.

Besides, this is a forum for discussion... discussion doesn't always mean a circlejerk (sorry for the term, can't think of a better one) sometimes it means debate.

This has become nothing more than a circlejerk in a negative fashion.

And to be honest, if people didn't jump in and try to tell people like me why we are wrong to care, shouldn't care or what we care about is incorrect (ie people telling us that standard cars look just fine and are current gen and we are incorrect for being unhappy about them) it would all be pretty much over and done with pretty quickly.

Did I ever say it was wrong to care? No. I care about it a lot, but I don't see the point in continuing this discussion that is going nowhere fast.

If anything people like you are masacistic. A good 80% of the negative posts here are in response and defense to posts telling them they are senseless, wrong or pointless. What do you really expect to happen in those situations?

I decide to voice my opinion on a subject and the fact that I TRULY BELIEVE THAT IT HAS BEEN COVERED makes me a masochist? Never knew voicing an opinion could do that.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but honestly the critical posts have gone on for who knows how long around here, you are aware of it as much as anyone and it's part of the forum, it's part of the internet and it's part of life.

Now knowing that, who is flogging the dead horse here?

You're right, so why not put forth an effort to get some of it out of the forums? If my words fall on deaf ears so be it, but today is the first time I have posted that I think that the standard cars issue has been covered and now all we are doing is beating a dead horse. Based on the meaning of that phrase, how could my first post possibly be beating a dead horse?

 

[McLaren]

I don't believe this guy too 👎
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=225192

Dan's just talking about the physics refresh rate at 360Hz. It's rumored GT5 will run at 700Hz, but then again, Polyphony won't even reveal what GT5 is running at.

Regardless, Simbin have already surpassed 360Hz in their games, again, it's just for bragging rights.

Also in Forza3 they have taken the fake lightning, reflections and improved car models and improved textures too from Forza2 which makes the game look much better and less cartoonish. Some cars though look very look like Forza2.

No one said they didn't.

Don't know why Forza porting cars over is hierarchy, yet GT5 ports 3/4th of its cars & has some standard models dating back to GT3, but that's just fine?

 

[Devedander]

Clearly you forgot that Galileo's reputation was founded upon the declaration of his discoveries as being incorrect by the Church. The two are directly related, I didn't think I would have to spell it our for you, you seem like a very intelligent individual.

The church is a group of people who claim to be right because they know they are right and their knowledge is infallible in the face of contradictory fact.

Sounds familiar...

If this is true, I owe you an apology.

Accepted.

It appeared that you were insinuating I was a fanboy. Based on this most recent statement, I guess you were.

I was. I may owe you an apology, I was under the impression that you were also unwilling or uninterested to face the negatives for what they are.

What's left to talk about the negatives? How many more angles can you approach this standard cars talk from?

Honestly? All that's left is refuting the people who refute there are negatives to be talked about. Ironic how that works...

Would love to know what was going through your head when you typed this.

I'm too tired to really remember and too tired to reference it and figure out I am sure I was defending some point...

So because other people voiced an opinion that they didn't think the concerns over such subjects had any merit, make it fanboy bullying?

No, I would reserve that description for those who tell others to stop voicing THEIR opinions and telling them to leave.

Sorry, but KY had said they were going to have a real-time damage model with deformation LONG before we had seen any preliminary attempts at damage modeling.

Not saying he didn't, but source?

Did I ever say it was wrong to care? No. I care about it a lot, but I don't see the point in continuing this discussion that is going nowhere fast.

It's a forum, it's kinda what one does in one...

I decide to voice my opinion on a subject and the fact that I TRULY BELIEVE THAT IT HAS BEEN COVERED makes me a masochist? Never knew voicing an opinion could do that.

Voicing your opinion that it has been completely covered does not make you a masochist, but constantly participating in that act that spawns the results you don't like kind of does.

right, so why not put forth an effort to get some of it out of the forums? If my words fall on deaf ears so be it, but today is the first time I have posted that I think that the standard cars issue has been covered and now all we are doing is beating a dead horse. Based on the meaning of that phrase, how could my first post possibly be beating a dead horse?

I don't think talking about negatives (even extensively ) and getting something out of the forums are mutually exclusive or even necessarily fundamentally different all the time

As for who's flogging the horse, I was speaking in general about the very process of complaining about complainers... it's gone on since pretty much the beggining of communication and it's not going to ever really get rid of complainers... so its the ultimate rehash.

 

[RedSuinit]

The church is a group of people who claim to be right because they know they are right and their knowledge is infallible in the face of contradictory fact.

Sounds familiar...

Not particularly.

Accepted.

Good.

I was. I may owe you an apology, I was under the impression that you were also unwilling or uninterested to face the negatives for what they are.

Accepted. Also, in all honesty I understand why some people are upset, I just don't see the point of continuing with a discussion that doesn't move forward, but that's been covered so, that's that.

Honestly? All that's left is refuting the people who refute there are negatives to be talked about. Ironic how that works...

Did I claim that there are no negatives? If I did then I am as dumb as a rock.

I'm too tired to really remember and too tired to reference it and figure out I am sure I was defending some point...

No, I would reserve that description for those who tell others to stop voicing THEIR opinions and telling them to leave.

Point taken.

Not saying he didn't, but source?

I'll have to track down the video.

It's a forum, it's kinda what one does in one...

But does it REALLY have to be that way?

Voicing your opinion that it has been completely covered does not make you a masochist, but constantly participating in that act that spawns the results you don't like kind of does.

Didn't realize that I was, I figured I was in a debate with you, just not about Forza and standard cars, but rather if whether or not there was any true merit to continuing the discussion.

I don't think talking about negatives (even extensively ) and getting something out of the forums are mutually exclusive or even necessarily fundamentally different all the time

I can understand this, and you raise a good point.

As for who's flogging the horse, I was speaking in general about the very process of complaining about complainers... it's gone on since pretty much the beggining of communication and it's not going to ever really get rid of complainers... so its the ultimate rehash.

I had your comment in an incorrect context, thank you for clarifying, and in a way you are correct, I guess I am indeed beating a dead horse.

 

[Famine]

So, anyway. This "800 cars from previous GTs updated" seems to be all my fault - but at least we're getting the game now:

So ultimately if I get GT4 without its flaws (understeery physics), with more cars, more tracks and better graphics, I'd be pretty happy and would clip around to my heart's content. If they want to tack on some extras, I'll play with them too but I won't miss any of the above things if they aren't there.

(from August 2009)

 

[RedSuinit]

So, anyway. This "800 cars from previous GTs updated" seems to be all my fault - but at least we're getting the game now:



(from August 2009)

Thanks a lot Famine.

 

[Tornado]

So PD listens to Famine about that, but Sega never listens to me when I complain that I want an HD remake of S3&K.

 

[Famine]

What can I say? Must be the indigo.