How in the Frank Bruno did Forza III do it?

[SavageEvil]

It can be a less important point, but even if FM3 has only 400 cars, this game has ALL of the major sport cars as porsche, koenigsegg and a lot of race car...
In my opinion GT5 has more useless cars, however it overcome in all other points FM3, for example in graphic, tracks and more.
I really hope GT5 will have DLC for cars and tracks.

Liscencing reasons are the only thing keeping Porsche out of GT5. EA has a lot to do with this, and they have been doing it since GT2. Useless cars?!? How can you say a car is useless, not everyone wants a 500hp super car, some people enjoy driving around in a 108hp 5 Door civic Di, nothing wrong with that. It just has enough cars to satisfy as many people as possible.

Those photos show that PD are just incredible with their lighting work and attention to detail, GT5 pics looks almost realistic, which is always a good thing when you want to showcase your hobby to your wife, lol.

 

[mykem]

It can be a less important point, but even if FM3 has only 400 cars, this game has ALL of the major sport cars as porsche, koenigsegg and a lot of race car...
In my opinion GT5 has more useless cars, however it overcome in all other points FM3, for example in graphic, tracks and more.
I really hope GT5 will have DLC for cars and tracks.

Although you have a semi-valid point- yes, the inclusion of Porsche and Koenigsegg etc. does add an interesting element to Forza 3 but on the flip-side, you also have to content with physics that some people perceive as somewhat forgiving.

There's a lot of elements in Forza 3 that seem to suggest that despite the intention of T10 to produce a great game, it fell short mainly because the 2 years it had didn't allow for a considerable overhaul to both the physics and the graphics engine. For example, the "permanent steering assist" in Forza 3 seems very much like band-aid solution to rid of Forza 2's issue with oversteering. With graphics, there are still only 8 cars on the track and where it's required, none of the cars have active/moveable spoiler/brake.

To me, in the end it all boils to down to intention on both the part of Turn 10 and PD. While I'm sure that both developers are concerned with their fans' wishes, it's a complex process of juggling wishes, time/effort and economic. And it's a testimonial to how well both developers (and indeed most great game developers) handle the process that the result are often good enough to be mistaken as being easy.

 

[lilcat89]

It can be a less important point, but even if FM3 has only 400 cars, this game has ALL of the major sport cars as porsche, koenigsegg and a lot of race car...
In my opinion GT5 has more useless cars, however it overcome in all other points FM3, for example in graphic, tracks and more.
I really hope GT5 will have DLC for cars and tracks.

KY has mentioned in many interviews that his dream for GT was for users to drive cars in the game that they drive in real life. Therefore, what is useless to you is not useless to someone else. FM3 and NFS only have cars that they think customers fantasize about. I love supercars as much as anyone, but being able to drive my e36 m3 on a track is so much more fun to me.

 

[sparkedglory]

KY has mentioned in many interviews that his dream for GT was for users to drive cars in the game that they drive in real life. Therefore, what is useless to you is not useless to someone else. FM3 and NFS only have cars that they think customers fantasize about. I love supercars as much as anyone, but being able to drive my e36 m3 on a track is so much more fun to me.

👍

 

[Luminis]

FM3 and NFS only have cars that they think customers fantasize about.

Like:
VW Rabbit
VW Golfs
BMW E30
Mazda 3
All kinds of old Civics
Alfa Romeo MiTo
Chevy Aveo
PT Cruiser

And so on and so forth... At least get your facts straight before attempting to bash other games...

 

[lilcat89]

Like:
VW Rabbit
VW Golfs
BMW E30
Mazda 3
All kinds of old Civics
Alfa Romeo MiTo
Chevy Aveo
PT Cruiser

And so on and so forth... At least get your facts straight before attempting to bash other games...

That is the extent of the "most likely to own" category in FM3. Im not bashing other games anyway. I was just stating that KY's vision and approach is different than their competitors in the racing genre. I like FM3 anyway, just still arcady for me.

 

[Terronium-12]

That is the extent of the "most likely to own" category in FM3. Im not bashing other games anyway. I was just stating that KY's vision and approach is different than their competitors in the racing genre. I like FM3 anyway, just still arcady for me.

Actually, that's far from the extent and If you have the game then surely you know that.

 

[lilcat89]

I HAD the game. But, like i said, Im not bashing it. It is actually fun playing split-screen, but FM2 impressed me more. thats all im saying.

 

[Luminis]

That is the extent of the "most likely to own" category in FM3. Im not bashing other games anyway.

Did you expect me to type all of the cheap beaters that are in FM3? That's why I put the 'like' at the top of my post, to indicate that I was giving some examples.

 

[Terronium-12]

I HAD the game. But, like i said, Im not bashing it. It is actually fun playing split-screen, but FM2 impressed me more. thats all im saying.

Ah. Well, I don't know if you've gone through the entire car roster but it's pretty even between exotics and "normal" cars. Actually, that's not true...I think there are more average cars then anything else. I wouldn't know for sure without counting them individually.

Which I'm not doing.

 

[JAGUAR1977]

I'm playing Forza 3 right now for the first time since E3.

After seeing all of the GT5 footage Forza 3 looks like a last generation title.

There are so many half decent driving sims out there on multiple platforms I'm past the point of settling for good enough.

I want something that pushes driving sims to the next level and if that means lower car counts in return for perfect car models and fantastic features I'm all for it.

 

[Terronium-12]

There are so many half decent driving sims out there on multiple platforms I'm past the point of settling for good enough.

I want something that pushes driving sims to the next level and if that means lower car counts in return for perfect car models and fantastic features I'm all for it.

You won't be getting that with GT5 either. Go out and buy yourself a racing sim for the PC.

 

[Flerbizky]

You won't be getting that with GT5 either. Go out and buy yourself a racing sim for the PC.

And you know this how?...

 

[Conquerer]

Considering they have never gotten a game out in less than four years, I'm confident taking these "They said" promises to the bank would be a wasted trip..

GT1 1997
GT2 1999
GT3 2001
GT4 2004
GT5P 2007
GT5 2010

Actually, they've never taken more than 4 years to release a game (not even counting GT PSP or TT). Only if you don't count Prologue was there ever a 4 or more year gap between titles.

 

[Luminis]

And you know this how?...

Probably because PC sims have been the only games that recreated drving physics to really realistic degrees.

And I doubt a console game that attempts to sell well will ever actually try to get that realistic.

 

[Terronium-12]

And you know this how?...

Well, let's assume for the sake of your question that I don't (I won't disclose whether or not I actually do) this is a console-based racing sim - will it be as realistic as possible? Most likely, but again it's a console racer...there's only so far they can go without voiding the fun factor for everyone else. Before anyone chimes in with the "Well, that's why they have driving aids and difficulty settings." True, but even then there are still limits that they have to acknowledge. As far as some things go however, you can't do any better then a PC sim because they're infinitely adjustable...the only problem is it's a niche market.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

With graphics, there are still only 8 cars on the track and where it's required, none of the cars have active/moveable spoiler/brake.

This reminds me of another aspect I hope is looked into in GT5; moving parts are all well and good, like the SLR or Veyron, but if they're purely cosmetic and don't offer any real advantage, I don't care for them. They're fluff, then. The Veyron doesn't have even a hint of a different attitude with its different spoiler settings, and I really don't think it'd be that hard to implement. We'll see.

GT1 1997
GT2 1999
GT3 2001
GT4 2004
GT5P 2007
GT5 2010

Actually, they've never taken more than 4 years to release a game (not even counting GT PSP or TT). Only if you don't count Prologue was there ever a 4 or more year gap between titles.

I don't count Prologue because it's not a separate game. It was what they had so far for 5. Prologue, PSP, and TT all are similar in that they never were clean-sheet designs; Prologue just showing us what they were so far up to, PSP being GT4 shrunken down enough to play well on the PSP (oh, and including one TT track and a dozen or so new cars, and physics more inline with GT5), and TT was GT4 with a new track and bikes.

The argument is still valid that each game takes longer to deliver than the last. We expect GT6 to be quicker than GT5 because Kaz has said so, and that they now have a good foundation with GT5. But the same was thought about the trip from GT3 to GT4... and that took 3.5 years.

If GT5 nails the weather, day/night, solid online, track editor, and livery editor goals... I can't think of too much more they would need to add to GT6. They would have a full house of features, so the next game could focus simply on bumping up the car count (to proper Premium) and tracks. And well, that would be genuinely FANTASTIC.

 

[mykem]

Well, let's assume for the sake of your question that I don't (I won't disclose whether or not I actually do) this is a console-based racing sim - will it be as realistic as possible? Most likely, but again it's a console racer...there's only so far they can go without voiding the fun factor for everyone else. Before anyone chimes in with the "Well, that's why they have driving aids and difficulty settings." True, but even then there are still limits that they have to acknowledge. As far as some things go however, you can't do any better then a PC sim because they're infinitely adjustable...the only problem is it's a niche market.

How does being infinitely adjustable makes it more realistic? It's quite a double-sword edge since it also introduces a whole sets of variables. There's a reason why iRacing isn't user-adjustable/mod.

 

[Terronium-12]

How does being infinitely adjustable make it more realistic? It's quite a double-sword edge since it also introduces a whole sets of variables. There's a reason why iRacing isn't user-adjustable/mod.

I never said anything about user mods, or user adjustments.

It's an open platform, you're in no way required (or rather, restricted) to construct the graphics or physics engines to appeal to one or two systems, you can future-proof the entire build by constructing it around yet to be released hardware and API's (FEAR and Crysis are two utterly perfect examples of this). The scalability is then left up to the end-user. Community interaction (Now I'm mentioning mods ) is only one of the many upsides to the platform, but it isn't popular enough to adopt as it requires a fair bit of understanding to even attempt.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

GT1 1997
GT2 1999
GT3 2001
GT4 2004
GT5P 2007
GT5 2010

Actually, they've never taken more than 4 years to release a game (not even counting GT PSP or TT). Only if you don't count Prologue was there ever a 4 or more year gap between titles.

GT5P was a demo, not a full game.
GT4 was released in 2005.
As said before, the process takes longer and longer.

 

[Earth]

To be fair, developers didn't get final PS3 development kits until August 2006

Also, GT5 has closed the simulation gap to PC sims big time. The only big lead PC sims have over GT5 is in the details, like damage to the gears, realistic draft, overheating etc

Also, Kaz has admitted GT5 premium cars are more suited for the PS4 then the PS3. Forza 3 quality cars are what you would expect this gen, PD took it a step further so the development time is longer

 

[Terronium-12]

To be fair, developers didn't get final PS3 development kits until August 2006

Also, GT5 has closed the simulation gap to PC sims big time. The only big lead PC sims have over GT5 is in the details, like damage to the gears, realistic draft, overheating etc

You think so?

 

[Earth]

You think so?

?

Considering that I own GTR2, rFactor and NASCAR 2003 I can have an opinion on the subject

 

[Terronium-12]

?

Considering that I own GTR2, rFactor and NASCAR 2003 I can have an opinion on the subject

Who said otherwise?

 

[Spagetti69]

Earth you haven't played GT 5.

Anyway, hypothetical question.

Would standard cars be forgiven, if there was 32 on the grid. Hmmmm.

 

[Terronium-12]

Earth you haven't played GT 5.

Anyway, hypothetical question.

Would standard cars be forgiven, if there was 32 on the grid. Hmmmm.

Not really, no. It'd just feel like I'm playing GT4 on steroids, essentially.

To me, anyway...

 

[Luminis]

Not really, no. It'd just feel like I'm playing GT4 on steroids, essentially.

To me, anyway...

Same here. you could put 32, 64 or 128 filler cars on a track, they're still fillers to me.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

GT4 was released in 2005.
As said before, the process takes longer and longer.

Nope. 2004. Worldwide, 2005, yes, but Japan got it before Christmas. GT1 was the same situation; only Japan got it in '97.

 

[Akira AC]

This reminds me of another aspect I hope is looked into in GT5; moving parts are all well and good, like the SLR or Veyron, but if they're purely cosmetic and don't offer any real advantage, I don't care for them. They're fluff, then. The Veyron doesn't have even a hint of a different attitude with its different spoiler settings, and I really don't think it'd be that hard to implement. We'll see.

they do feature the tuning adjustments,but a thing that bugs me sometimes is that in forza the veyron never took the spoiler out(is just an observation not an attack )even to brake,while GTPSP actually does,but this also got me thinking an hoping that for example the Veyron will be allowed to take its spoiler for corners and braking and keep it away in the straights,again just saying.

 

[mykem]

I never said anything about user mods, or user adjustments.

It's an open platform, you're in no way required (or rather, restricted) to construct the graphics or physics to appeal to one or two systems, you can future-proof the entire build by constructing it around yet to be released hardware and API's (FEAR and Crysis are two utterly perfect examples of this). The scalability is then left up to the end-user. Community interaction (Now I'm mentioning mods ) is only one of the many upsides to the platform, but it isn't popular enough to adopt as it requires a fair bit of understanding to even attempt.

You're probably right in suggesting that PC is more scalable therefore has greater potential. But I don't think it determines how far you could push driving sims. And while the developers like PD or T10 might work within a completely different perimeters as ISI or iRacing, in the end as I've suggested, it usually comes back to either intent or commitment. The different markets will suggest disparity in gameplay between PC and console sims but in the end it's the experience that matters (as long as you're open-minded which I'm sad to say isn't usually the case with most PC sim-mers ).