How in the Frank Bruno did Forza III do it?

[JAGUAR1977]

You won't be getting that with GT5 either. Go out and buy yourself a racing sim for the PC.

I've been playing PC driving sims for over a decade and they are now dropping off the pace.

There's too much reliance on old technology and modders who have limited time and resources.

Only iRacing is offering something new and innovative but they have a retail model I don't like and little content that interests me.

 

[Feschka]

It'll work better as a masturbation tool....

 

[m0j0NL]

This thread is full of win

Gotta love a g33k fight about which game is better

Anywho,

I`m lucky enough to have both a PS3 (which i purchased for GT and some NCAA games), and a Xbox (my main console, for which i buy most games).

Hence i have Forza, and i will get GT5, not because one is better than the other, but because i like racing games.



When it comes to cockpits?.. imho the winner is a unexpected game, namely Need for Speed Shift (not talking about amounts, but about quality)

That game beat GTP and Forza into the ground with its sence of speed, details, and blurring at high speeds when looking from behind the steering wheel (to bad the physics/driving engine blows)

Also what i loved is that when you got to update your car to the next tier of cockpit upgrades your dials and such actually changed, hence when your car is fully tuned it also shows that from the inside, which is rare for a racing game (the first that has done that?)


-edit about Kinect.

Imho thats gonna be the biggest failure in this decade.

Kinda like

 

[Feschka]

Hence i have Forza, and i will get GT5, not because one is better than the other, but because i like racing games.

Racing games are like women, do you love them all?


Two 360 with RROD and forza are enough for me: I won't ever give 1 cent to microsoft 👎

 

[pay2021]

....Hence i have Forza, and i will get GT5, not because one is better than the other, but because i like racing games.



When it comes to cockpits?.. imho the winner is a unexpected game, namely Need for Speed Shift (not talking about amounts, but about quality)

That game beat GTP and Forza into the ground with its sence of speed, details, and blurring at high speeds when looking from behind the steering wheel (to bad the physics/driving engine blows)

Also what i loved is that when you got to update your car to the next tier of cockpit upgrades your dials and such actually changed, hence when your car is fully tuned it also shows that from the inside, which is rare for a racing game (the first that has done that?)...

I agree with you, maybe Shift dont have much polygons has GT5 premiun cars has but the visual experience is really good, i have it in PC and with the modded physics is a LOT better, is other game.

 

[Zer0]

You guys seen this <censored> yet?

http://forzamotorsport.net/uploadedImages/Latest_News/Articles/Official_News/FM_1_Art.jpg?n=3125

http://forzamotorsport.net/uploadedImages/Latest_News/Articles/Official_News/FM_2_Art.jpg?n=3125

http://forzamotorsport.net/uploadedImages/Latest_News/Articles/Official_News/FM_3_Art.jpg?n=3125

Ray-traced CGI:

Realtime demo:

 

[Tenacious D]

I don't think Turn 10 is doing themselves any favors, overselling Forza - and Kinect - like that. Some of us have enough sense to see this for what it is, but even some game journalists are going to have high expectations for F4. What will fans say if the game doesn't get close to this? Or if it's the same old 8 car races with low detail non-player cars? Or if it has to wait for the NextBox to compete with GT5?

 

[crazedmodder]

I don't think Turn 10 is doing themselves any favors, overselling Forza - and Kinect - like that. Some of us have enough sense to see this for what it is, but even some game journalists are going to have high expectations for F4. What will fans say if the game doesn't get close to this? Or if it's the same old 8 car races with low detail non-player cars? Or if it has to wait for the NextBox to compete with GT5?

I don't know about Forza 4 but they have to push Kinect. Kind of sucks for them being first party developers because stuff like this is also probably kind of shoved down their throat. Who knows if Turn 10 even cares about Kinect because even if they don't they have to at least pretend.

Same thing for Move.

When are we going to see proper mind-reading interface devices? I wouldn't mind getting into a matrix style chair and racing with my mind as long as I don't have to get anything jammed into the back of my neck

 

[McLaren]

I've been playing PC driving sims for over a decade and they are now dropping off the pace.

There's too much reliance on old technology and modders who have limited time and resources.

Only iRacing is offering something new and innovative but they have a retail model I don't like and little content that interests me.

To be fair, there hasn't really been a new cutting-edge sim since iRacing. Hopefully, that will change when Simbin's newest game (GTR3 supposedly) comes out.

Racing games are like women, do you love them all?

Opinions are like 🤬. Everyone has one.

Try thinking how an analogy works before coming up with one.

 

[eSZee]

Racing games are like children, everyone has a favorite?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Some of us have enough sense to see this for what it is, but even some game journalists are going to have high expectations for F4. What will fans say if the game doesn't get close to this?

Well, as long as they model 2/10 cars in the game to that level, they can be hailed as the new standard!

 

[Feschka]

Try thinking how an analogy works before coming up with one.

no boy

 

[gtone339]

Ray-traced CGI:
http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360...e3-2010-forza-4-artwork-20100614031909709.jpg

Realtime demo:
http://i50.tinypic.com/vr96rm.png

👎

 

[Tenacious D]

Well, as long as they model 2/10 cars in the game to that level, they can be hailed as the new standard!

Turn 10 doesn't have a Playstation or Nintendo64 game to fall back on. But maybe if they farmed out 80% of that modeling work to Viet Nam...

 

[mykem]

I don't know about Forza 4 but they have to push Kinect. Kind of sucks for them being first party developers because stuff like this is also probably kind of shoved down their throat. Who knows if Turn 10 even cares about Kinect because even if they don't they have to at least pretend.

Same thing for Move.

When are we going to see proper mind-reading interface devices? I wouldn't mind getting into a matrix style chair and racing with my mind as long as I don't have to get anything jammed into the back of my neck

Stuff like Kinect or even PS Eye have a lot of potential for usage especially in a racing game. Besides the obvious head/face/eye tracking, you can also use it as Turn 10 has shown to follow hand gesture/movement. I believe things like shifting and hand position on the steering wheel can be improved if you use Kinect or PS Eye. Instead of the current method of basing it on simple things like Rev meter for shifting, it can now be based entirely on what you're actually doing. And for steering, the screen would mimic your style of driving. Just imagine how much more informative replays can be.

 

[Spagetti69]

No, just a normal steering wheel will do thanks.

 

[NOS Waster]

Stuff like Kinect or even PS Eye have a lot of potential for usage especially in a racing game. Besides the obvious head/face/eye tracking, you can also use it as Turn 10 has shown to follow hand gesture/movement. I believe things like shifting and hand position on the steering wheel can be improved if you use Kinect or PS Eye. Instead of the current method of basing it on simple things like Rev meter for shifting, it can now be based entirely on what you're actually doing. And for steering, the screen would mimic your style of driving. Just imagine how much more informative replays can be.

This is one of the most intelligent posts on this subject IMO. It does offer potential on reading where our hands are ON the wheel and will read where the hands are, but will not control steering. This would be very interesting because it will allow us to watch what we did in a replay, allowing us to correct errors within our actual driving style so we can improve as drivers. I think this could help me quite a bit because i miss a lot of shifts in some cars, while nailing the shifts on other cars. Head tracking is the first step, now i hope PD will add hand tracking in a future update for GT5 or add it for GT6 (NOT for steering, but just mimicking our hand movements.)

 

[Akira AC]

Stuff like Kinect or even PS Eye have a lot of potential for usage especially in a racing game. Besides the obvious head/face/eye tracking, you can also use it as Turn 10 has shown to follow hand gesture/movement. I believe things like shifting and hand position on the steering wheel can be improved if you use Kinect or PS Eye. Instead of the current method of basing it on simple things like Rev meter for shifting, it can now be based entirely on what you're actually doing. And for steering, the screen would mimic your style of driving. Just imagine how much more informative replays can be.

Sorry but I disagree on this one because the only thing that can make the experience of racing closer to reality is a steering wheel,if you imagine the steering wheel is exactly the same sensation that you get with the controller and steering wheels are better because you need a physic sensation of the car :feedback, throttle response,maybe head tracking but it only works with a steering wheel but still is pointless,we all know that that forza stuff is trying to impulse kinetic,but for the sim racing driver is pretty poor and rather pointless

Kinetic on Forza= FAIL

 

[NOS Waster]

Sorry but I disagree on this one because the only thing that can make the experience of racing closer to reality is a steering wheel,if you imagine the steering wheel is exactly the same sensation that you get with the controller and steering wheels are better because you need a physic sensation of the car :feedback, throttle response,maybe head tracking but it only works with a steering wheel but still is pointless,we all know that that forza stuff is trying to impulse kinetic,but for the sim racing driver is pretty poor and rather pointless

Kinetic on Forza= FAIL

you did not understand what he was saying at all.

If the camera can track your hands WITHOUT controlling the steering, granted you have your own wheel to steer, then it would ENHANCE realism. It would read your OWN hand movement so when you move your hand to shift, the camera sees it and moves the virtual driver's hand to the shifter (granted thats where your hand goes).

That is exactly what his post was trying to demonstrate. I'm glad that i understood it...

 

[crazedmodder]

Stuff like Kinect or even PS Eye have a lot of potential for usage especially in a racing game. Besides the obvious head/face/eye tracking, you can also use it as Turn 10 has shown to follow hand gesture/movement. I believe things like shifting and hand position on the steering wheel can be improved if you use Kinect or PS Eye. Instead of the current method of basing it on simple things like Rev meter for shifting, it can now be based entirely on what you're actually doing. And for steering, the screen would mimic your style of driving. Just imagine how much more informative replays can be.

I agree it would be cool but that's not what they're aiming for with the products. The Eyetoy yes, head tracking is a cool addition but that is unrelated to Move. Maybe Kinect is more in line with that because it requires just a camera but the current implementation as well as what developers are aiming to use these devices for is currently very 👎 for us.

Maybe in the future they will focus on all these cool features like matching our hands to the cockpit view in replays but for now these interface devices are being used to introduce non-gamers to the world of gaming.

Instead of the current method of basing it on simple things like Rev meter for shifting, it can now be based entirely on what you're actually doing.

I don't understand what you mean, can you elaborate please?

 

[Akira AC]

you did not understand what he was saying at all.

If the camera can track your hands WITHOUT controlling the steering, granted you have your own wheel to steer, then it would ENHANCE realism. It would read your OWN hand movement so when you move your hand to shift, the camera sees it and moves the virtual driver's hand to the shifter (granted thats where your hand goes).

That is exactly what his post was trying to demonstrate. I'm glad that i understood it...

1. in the demo of kinetic the player DID NOT make shifting or had control of the gear changes.

2. if you are in a corner for example in a car like a ford GT you will fell something call understeer, if you know what understeer is you also know that you need the feedback from the thing that are you driving on(i.e. a steering wheel)if you drive in the real life you drive with your mind,guess no, but you do drive with something call steering wheel and a gear liver and a throttle and pedals,and as far as a know an stering wheel based on air will not give you that feedback sensation.

3. although the technology is design to capture movement is not calibrate to take precise movements of fingers or small movements(in example when your making any action with pedal it wont work because natal is based on thermical technology therefore is not suitable to record small movements,and the best example of this is the demo shown in natal,while the guy who drove the 458 did make the steering with his hands,he could simply sit down in a sofa and make the steering with he's feet,but he didn't and it was because what i mentioned before.

all this new move devices I just a market that microsoft and Sony are taking
to incursion in that market just that,not to make inovation,if they wanted to inovate this gender of racing games they should make a stering wheel that simulates understeer and oversteer,and maybe just maybe had tracking,(still move in GT5 )

 

[NOS Waster]

I see your POV (Point of View) on this.

What will PS Move be used for?

 

[Akira AC]

I see your POV (Point of View) on this.

What will PS Move be used for?

pretty much nothing because its the same principle,hope that PD don't waste time in development for that thing and use their time to make a more realistic sensation, I also was amazed by the use that forza had for kinetic,sadly after investigating a little I just don't see any future on it for sim racing games.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Turn 10 doesn't have a Playstation or Nintendo64 game to fall back on. But maybe if they farmed out 80% of that modeling work to Viet Nam...

...they'd still get proper multi-piece 3D models

 

[Tenacious D]

What will PS Move be used for?

Since E3 is behind us, I can think of three things that Move could be good for.

1. Livery Editor tools.

2. Track Builder tools.

3. Photo Mode tools.

 

[Tornado]

I don't think Kinect will make much of an impact on racing games when you have to stand up to use it. Nor do I think Move will be that big a deal for them either (outside of the things talked about in the post above) when there are literally a dozen different FFB steering wheels available for the PS3.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I see a use for Kinect/Move in a MarioKart kind of setting; group/party games that might have a small racing minigame or something like that. LBP2 could have a lot of fun with it.

When it comes to the sim driving games on either console, I see less uses though. The idea of Kinect following your actual hand positions on a wheel would be incredibly cool, but I don't see something like that being implemented for a while. I'm still kind of confused about exactly how Move tracks my head movement for GT5; if I lean my shoulders+head over to the right, and the camera on screen pans to the right, that's handy. But if I'm literally rotating my head to the right as I would to check the right side of the car in real life... wouldn't I be looking away from the screen? I don't see much use for that.

And I still wonder about fidelity issues, as E3 so ably demonstrated with the Move acting up whenever people walked by in the background. Then again, at least Sony gave people a hands-on with Move, compared to the pre-recorded "demos" Microsoft played

 

[mykem]

I agree it would be cool but that's not what they're aiming for with the products. The Eyetoy yes, head tracking is a cool addition but that is unrelated to Move. Maybe Kinect is more in line with that because it requires just a camera but the current implementation as well as what developers are aiming to use these devices for is currently very 👎 for us.

Maybe in the future they will focus on all these cool features like matching our hands to the cockpit view in replays but for now these interface devices are being used to introduce non-gamers to the world of gaming.

I don't understand what you mean, can you elaborate please?

The whole idea behind Kinect and to some degree Move (with the aid of the Move controller) is to track the movement of your body or parts of your body. Just imagine the PS Eye tracking not only your head but also your arm action when shifting/steering (of course a FFB steering wheel). In short, What-You-See (on the screen)-Is-What-You-Are-Actually-Doing.

 

[alba]

Since E3 is behind us, I can think of three things that Move could be good for.

1. Livery Editor tools.

2. Track Builder tools.

3. Photo Mode tools.

Agreed but even so there's not much use for move in GT5. Not any relevant one I can think of at least except when used for tools.

 

[crazedmodder]

Since E3 is behind us, I can think of three things that Move could be good for.

1. Livery Editor tools.

2. Track Builder tools.

3. Photo Mode tools.

Never thought of that, that would be cool. However, if PD is nice enough to give us KB/mouse support in these tools I don't think Move would be as interesting (to me).

I see a use for Kinect/Move in a MarioKart kind of setting; group/party games that might have a small racing minigame or something like that. LBP2 could have a lot of fun with it.

When it comes to the sim driving games on either console, I see less uses though. The idea of Kinect following your actual hand positions on a wheel would be incredibly cool, but I don't see something like that being implemented for a while. I'm still kind of confused about exactly how Move tracks my head movement for GT5; if I lean my shoulders+head over to the right, and the camera on screen pans to the right, that's handy. But if I'm literally rotating my head to the right as I would to check the right side of the car in real life... wouldn't I be looking away from the screen? I don't see much use for that.

You should check this out because it gives a nice video of how TrackIR works. I imagine the headtracking in GT5 will be similar, if you notice in the video the head movement is not translated 1:1. Say he turns his head a bit then the movement will be exaggerated in game. I would hope how much would be adjustable in GT5.

The whole idea behind Kinect and to some degree Move (with the aid of the Move controller) is to track the movement of your body or parts of your body. Just imagine the PS Eye tracking not only your head but also your arm action when shifting/steering (of course a FFB steering wheel). In short, What-You-See (on the screen)-Is-What-You-Are-Actually-Doing.

I got the rest I just wasn't sure what you meant about the shifting but I get it now. Yeah that would be pretty cool.