How NASCAR Will Fare?

[Joel]

Well because it just has no base.. I feel it was added for the wow factor more then anything. While PD has always had a few race cars most vehicles are based on road going platforms.. What does the Nascar CoT have to do with that? My major issues are simply that I don't see a CoT motoring around Le Mans none the less mixing it up with a Z06 or GTR.. I just don't condone the addition as it does nothing but take focus away from the bigger picture of Gran Turismo..

I would prefer something more cohesive.. My personal choice would have been focusing on both the ALMS and ELMS. There are a number of racing series that deserve attention that would have been a better fit IMO..

Gran-am - KONI/Rolex, SCCA - World Challenge GT/World Challenge Touring Car, and any NASA competion class for that matter.. British GT, WTCC, FIA-GT & GT3, and DTM.. or even V8 Supercars..

I'd gladly take any of those series over NASCAR.. Any of those series would blend effortlessly if nothing else MUCH MUCH better with GT5 than NASCAR. It's clear to me it was more for the wow factor then anything else..

Shoot I'd be more excited about MotoGP as a non-cohesive addition then NASCAR.

You sir, do not understand the fact that NASCAR is the second most popular motorsport in the world. In the real world, all it boils down to is sales. And GT has been falling in the US, and only getting bigger in Japan and Europe. So, logically, you try to boost sales where they're lagging (US). So what do you think average joe American is going to be interested in? British GT? V8 Supercars? No. NASCAR.

 

[Lucas]

Precisely. Well put, noob616. 👍

 

[Demon Drone]

You sir, do not understand the fact that NASCAR is the second most popular motorsport in the world. In the real world, all it boils down to is sales. And GT has been falling in the US, and only getting bigger in Japan and Europe. So, logically, you try to boost sales where they're lagging (US). So what do you think average joe American is going to be interested in? British GT? V8 Supercars? No. NASCAR.

That is because average joe American has no idea that there is racing outside of America. NASCAR is shoved down people's throats so much it's as if NASCAR is the only racing in the world. I mention racing to people and they automatically assume I'm talking about NASCAR and when I say no and I say I watch European racing they look at me as if I'm insane.

 

[2JZFAN]

You sir, do not understand the fact that NASCAR is the second most popular motorsport in the world. In the real world, all it boils down to is sales. And GT has been falling in the US, and only getting bigger in Japan and Europe. So, logically, you try to boost sales where they're lagging (US). So what do you think average joe American is going to be interested in? British GT? V8 Supercars? No. NASCAR.

Exactly my point, they simply did it for the wow factor. You even went as far to say that PD is basically selling out to save GT in the US.. There is no logic in adding a few cars and tracks from a series that has nothing to do with the core of this title IMO. FYI, average Joe American doesn't have the $$$ for a PS3 or give a crap that a few NASCARs are in GT5.

That is because average joe American has no idea that there is racing outside of America. NASCAR is shoved down people's throats so much it's as if NASCAR is the only racing in the world. I mention racing to people and they automatically assume I'm talking about NASCAR and when I say no and I say I watch European racing they look at me as if I'm insane.

Agreed. I doubt the two worlds even overlap much.. The NASCAR addition won't even impact sales IMO. It's not like all the Junior fans are gonna run out and buy a PS3, 1080p display, and a copy of GT5 JUST to play. This move will simply go down as another misstep in GT franchise history and be nothing more then a nice gesture.

I wish they had spent the resources on other more exciting things.

 

[G.T.Ace]

the core of this title IMO

The core of the title is having as many different cars in the game.
From the 1886 Benz Patent Motorwagen and the Supersportscars up to Formula 1.
NASCARs, with their very big history, fit perfectly in there.

 

[Ardius]

Well because it just has no base.. I feel it was added for the wow factor more then anything. While PD has always had a few race cars most vehicles are based on road going platforms.. What does the Nascar CoT have to do with that? My major issues are simply that I don't see a CoT motoring around Le Mans none the less mixing it up with a Z06 or GTR.. I just don't condone the addition as it does nothing but take focus away from the bigger picture of Gran Turismo..

I would prefer something more cohesive.. My personal choice would have been focusing on both the ALMS and ELMS. There are a number of racing series that deserve attention that would have been a better fit IMO..

Gran-am - KONI/Rolex, SCCA - World Challenge GT/World Challenge Touring Car, and any NASA competion class for that matter.. British GT, WTCC, FIA-GT & GT3, and DTM.. or even V8 Supercars..

I'd gladly take any of those series over NASCAR.. Any of those series would blend effortlessly if nothing else MUCH MUCH better with GT5 than NASCAR. It's clear to me it was more for the wow factor then anything else..

Shoot I'd be more excited about MotoGP as a non-cohesive addition then NASCAR.

Bigger picture of Gran Turismo? Surely the "bigger picture" would be to try and include all forms of motorsport, not just ones you personally like?

Why do you feel those other series won't be included? Its not a case of "oh we've got 1 race series already, we can't fit anymore in". Its not like NASCAR is taking away anything from the game at all. These kind of reactions make no sense at all.

Also, the original point of Gran Turismo is provide the best driving experience, allowing you to experience all kinds of cars regardless of whether they are racing or street cars. Adding NASCAR in doesn't harm GT's image in anyway, it only enhances it.

Your posts just stink of anti-NASCAR hate and have little relevance to the pro's and con's of including them in GT. Don't like the series? Don't use them in the game then. But otherwise, why can't other people have their favourite series? What's next? We shouldn't have WRC because rallying in previous isn't that good?

 

[CodeRedR51]

Forza fanboy should go back to the Forza forums.

If you don't want to play "NASCAR" in GT, then don't buy the game.

Tired of hearing people whine about this crap anymore. Not like there's anything you can do about it, so leave it be.

 

[2JZFAN]

The core of the title is having as many different cars in the game.
From the 1886 Benz Patent Motorwagen and the Supersportscars up to Formula 1.
NASCARs, with their very big history, fit perfectly in there.

The heart of GT is true street cars.. When you look at the cars of GT the majority is street cars not race cars or F1. As much fun as the others are to obtain, long term playability is based on tuning street cars. Like I said earlier I don't really see a CoT mixing it up with some tuned street cars around for example Laguna Sec.. 👎 Nascar in GT5 is a novelty and attempt to increase popularity in the US.

BTW I already made the point of there being exceptions earlier, it was unnecessary to further it..

 

[RACECAR]

Well because it just has no base.. I feel it was added for the wow factor more then anything. While PD has always had a few race cars most vehicles are based on road going platforms.. What does the Nascar CoT have to do with that? My major issues are simply that I don't see a CoT motoring around Le Mans none the less mixing it up with a Z06 or GTR..

By that same token, what about any Open Wheel race car? Last I checked, I've yet to find any road going variation they are based off of. Not mention there's more to Nascar then just the COT despite what was only shown.

Also, I found this part to be very contridictory because of that fact that you specifically say:

I just don't condone the addition as it does nothing but take focus away from the bigger picture of Gran Turismo..

And yet, you turn right around and say:

I would prefer something more cohesive.. My personal choice would have been focusing on both the ALMS and ELMS. There are a number of racing series that deserve attention that would have been a better fit IMO..

If I'm not mistaken, thats also taking the focus away. As I have explained before, Gran Turismo has never and will never focus on a series and despite the recent license they've aquired, it won't change.

I'd gladly take any of those series over NASCAR.. Any of those series would blend effortlessly if nothing else MUCH MUCH better with GT5 than NASCAR. It's clear to me it was more for the wow factor then anything else..

Or is it because its an even further expansion to Yamauchi's Vision for an Automotive enclopedia (keywords: Yaumauchi's Vision), which makes more sense then the "wow" factor. Just like you made clear yourself, its your choice on if you are going to race them or not.

Gran-am - KONI/Rolex, SCCA - World Challenge GT/World Challenge Touring Car, and any NASA competion class for that matter.. British GT, WTCC, FIA-GT & GT3, and DTM.. or even V8 Supercars..

Which ironically enough, Forza 3 has none of those either.

I will still take what PD has to offer but I have no interest whatsoever in driving around in a CoT.. On the other hand just before the 24hrs started M$ and T10 dropped some nice shots of Le Mans. IMO this all has to do with T10 doing a better job marketing their series and keeping in touch with the current motorsports community.

So Nascar doesn't have current motorsport community? How is it still the most watched racing in the US if it doesn't have a community?

M$ continues to do a better job marketing then Sony..
T10 continues to do a better job marketing then PD..

Seems like your idea of marketing is clearly based off only what you like, not on any decent proof. If immature and cocky acts like last week are your idea of "better marketing", you are gonna be in for major shock once the North American Sales figures for GT5 and Forza are published.

Stewart is doing good because he is in a Hendrick car. 👍

Before that, he was in a Gibbs car and won two championships while doing so.

 

[2JZFAN]

Bigger picture of Gran Turismo? Surely the "bigger picture" would be to try and include all forms of motorsport, not just ones you personally like?

Why do you feel those other series won't be included? Its not a case of "oh we've got 1 race series already, we can't fit anymore in". Its not like NASCAR is taking away anything from the game at all. These kind of reactions make no sense at all.

Also, the original point of Gran Turismo is provide the best driving experience, allowing you to experience all kinds of cars regardless of whether they are racing or street cars. Adding NASCAR in doesn't harm GT's image in anyway, it only enhances it.

Your posts just stink of anti-NASCAR hate and have little relevance to the pro's and con's of including them in GT. Don't like the series? Don't use them in the game then. But otherwise, why can't other people have their favourite series? What's next? We shouldn't have WRC because rallying in previous isn't that good?

Include forms of cohesive motorsport over fractions of non-cohesive.. A few Nascar add nothing to the big picture and majority of cars in the game. As for personal opinion I've clearly mentioned my comments are IMO. IMO = In My Opinion for those who do not know.

While you may feel the addition of Nascar is a positive one I feel it's simply a waste of resources.. There is now a large steaming hunk of Nascar dab in the middle of what once was the great Gran Turismo..

Forza fanboy should go back to the Forza forums.

If you don't want to play "NASCAR" in GT, then don't buy the game.

Tired of hearing people whine about this crap anymore. Not like there's anything you can do about it, so leave it be.

I don't even own a 360, spare us of your childish remarks. 👎

 

[CodeRedR51]

I don't even own a 360, spare us of your childish remarks. 👎

Speak for yourself.

 

[2JZFAN]

RACECAR I'm not even going to waste the time to quote things out like that.. I'll try to reply to what I can.

There's nothing contradictory about what I said.. If you look back at the series DTM cars and tuned street cars would commonly be on track at the same events. I said it before and I'll say it again, a CoT aint going round Laguna none less with street cars.

If this is what he meant by automotive encyclopedia then his vision is blurry. It makes no sense to waste resources IMO on a series that cannot interact with the majority of cars.

Wrong. A simple Google for the FM2 car list shows a MC12 Corsa (FIA GT) and a large number of LMS cars.. We don't even know what cars FM3 will have yet!

most watched racing in the US

exactly. just now it is being added to GT.. smells more like wow factor every time someone points that out.

I think we'll all be surprised given the momentum T10 is going to have.. I'm worried and more so because of the direction GT seems to be going. It's a must have but I'm allowed to have my reservations like anyone else.

Speak for yourself.

what i thought

 

[TofuStoreDrift]

While you may feel the addition of Nascar is a positive one I feel it's simply a waste of resources.. There is now a large steaming hunk of Nascar dab in the middle of what once was the great Gran Turismo..

If thats your opinion, then show PD your hatred for NASCAR by making a statement, don't buy their product this time around. That will hit them where it hurts, their pocket book. I for one though, will buy and enjoy GT5 to the fullest.

 

[Lucas]

If you look back at the series DTM cars and tuned street cars would commonly be on track at the same events.

That makes a lot of sense, huh? I didn't knew DTM belonged on the same category that tuned street cars. You say NASCAR and street cars don't mix up. I say the same. But that doesn't take away the fact that surely isn't obligatory for them to mix up.

 

[2JZFAN]

If thats your opinion, then show PD your hatred for NASCAR by making a statement, don't buy their product this time around. That will hit them where it hurts, their pocket book. I for one though, will buy and enjoy GT5 to the fullest.

I don't have any hatred for Nascar, hell I'll watch it in HD on a slow weekend.. I've said it before and I'll say it again, GT is a definite buy in my book.

That makes a lot of sense, huh? I didn't knew DTM belonged on the same category that tuned street cars. You say NASCAR and street cars don't mix up. I say the same. But that doesn't take away the fact that surely isn't obligatory for them to mix up.

It only doesn't make sense to you because you've construed the point at an attempt to prove yours.. I'll make it simpiler this time.. It's much more believeable to see a DTM or LMS car on track with a highly capable/tuned street car then a Nascar CoT. Not to mention it's already been done in the series.. It's like the F1 cars from previous entries except no where near as capable. IMO if they allow the CoT on Laguna it takes away from the realism.. but again, that's my opinion.

 

[TofuStoreDrift]

In that case then if they allowed a street car on Daytona Superspeedway then it would be unbelievable.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I don't have any hatred for Nascar, hell I'll watch it in HD on a slow weekend.. I've said it before and I'll say it again, GT is a definite buy in my book.

Then I don't see the point in making such a fuss. Must be fun to argue with people then...

 

[Lucas]

2JZFAN, as TofuStoreDrift just showed you (and me), it's useless to think about realism when talking about races. There are tons of combinations possible. They may be unrealistic, but many things on the game already are. Why complain, then?

 

[2JZFAN]

In that case then if they allowed a street car on Daytona Superspeedway then it would be unbelievable.

Think pace car.. FYI Grand-Am Koni Challenge runs on Daytona International 👍

Then I don't see the point in making such a fuss. Must be fun to argue with people then...

2JZFAN, as TofuStoreDrift just showed you (and me), it's useless to think about realism when talking about races. There are tons of combinations possible. They may be unrealistic, but many things on the game already are. Why complain, then?

No fuss, just sharing my opinion.. It seems a few Nascar fans just can't let someone else vent.. We've all waited a long time for this release and I'm just a bit worried.. I worry about the direction, clarity, and overall appeal of GT5. I've always thought PD was out of touch because of the lack of interactivity with the community. The addition of Nascar doesn't add any value to the series IMO and only shows the lack of direction and clarity. While more forms of motor sports are good I've listed a number of better more cohesive possibilities.

 

[RACECAR]

RACECAR I'm not even going to waste the time to quote things out like that.. I'll try to reply to what I can.

Fine with me, No one is forcing you to.

There's nothing contradictory about what I said

So you don't find that you saying Nascar is taking away the focus of what GT is and then saying Focus on a certain series, which is technically taking away the focus of its "car enclopedia" approach, Contradictory? Also, Tuning your street car was a option, not the main focus, which was the enjoyment of driving.

.. If you look back at the series DTM cars and tuned street cars would commonly be on track at the same events. I said it before and I'll say it again, a CoT aint going round Laguna none less with street cars.

It makes no sense to waste resources IMO on a series that cannot interact with the majority of cars.

I don't recall mentioning the COT going around Laguna Seca with street cars so why do you keep bringing that along with other series and street cars up? Exactly, what are you saying?

If this is what he meant by automotive encyclopedia then his vision is blurry.

Yet you brought into it all this time.

Wrong. A simple Google for the FM2 car list shows a MC12 Corsa (FIA GT) and a large number of LMS cars.. We don't even know what cars FM3 will have yet!

Who said Forza 2? Also you said series, not cars:

I would prefer something more cohesive.. My personal choice would have been focusing on both the ALMS and ELMS. There are a number of racing series that deserve attention that would have been a better fit IMO..

Gran-am - KONI/Rolex, SCCA - World Challenge GT/World Challenge Touring Car, and any NASA competion class for that matter.. British GT, WTCC, FIA-GT & GT3, and DTM.. or even V8 Supercars..

I simply said Forza had none of those either meaning "series" so where you got cars from I have no idea. Seems like your putting words in my mouth.

exactly. just now it is being added to GT.. smells more like wow factor every time someone points that out.

Except you forgot the rest of this part:

So Nascar doesn't have current motorsport community? How is it still the most watched racing in the US if it doesn't have a community?

Which I said as you seem to think the "Current Motorsport Cummunity" does not include Nascar fans at all.

IMO if they allow the CoT on Laguna it takes away from the realism.. but again, that's my opinion.

 

[Lucas]

No fuss, just sharing my opinion.. It seems a few Nascar fans just can't let someone else vent..

I will go ahead and laugh. What kind of person classifies as a NASCAR fan? Hell, I got the urge of driving one in GT5 when I saw the trailer. Ask me anything about NASCAR drivers, cars, tracks, and I'm sure I won't be able to answer you more than what I find on Wikipedia just to answer those questions.

It's your opinion, I know, but opinions should not be absolutes, as one person taught me not long ago. I know you don't like NASCAR, you have been basically saying and implying it with your last posts on this thread. But because you don't like it, it doesn't mean it doesn't take place on GT5. After all, this is Kazunori's dream. Shouldn't he decide what's best to accomplish that dream?

 

[2JZFAN]

RACECAR, jesus man!

No because Nascar is based on the CoT and a few stickers.. The other series I listed as examples have strong ties to road cars. In turn it's much more believable to see a 430 Scud racing a Risi 430 GT then a Nascar CoT around Laguna..

I mention Laguna because it's a perfect example as you do not for the same reason.

Le Mans is about more then just prototypes namely GT1 and GT2.. However all 4 series do run on track at the same time. I would love to see PD recreate Le Mans with cars representative of the series on track all at once. That sounds much more exciting to me then a few CoT going around Daytona..

Hindsight is 20/20, spare us.. My point still stands.

I'd say the current contemporary motor sports community does not include Nascar.. You can't deny it's following but there's a reason EA is dropping the series.. In turn there's also a reason T10 is playing up the Le Mans angle. Trust me I wish PD wasn't out of touch or grasping for straws to attract mainstream America but this is just what we've been dealt.

** I like the edit BTW, shows how great those things drift.. ermm I mean attempt to turn. FYI, I actually record the road coarse races.. both of them.

I will go ahead and laugh. What kind of person classifies as a NASCAR fan? Hell, I got the urge of driving one in GT5 when I saw the trailer. Ask me anything about NASCAR drivers, cars, tracks, and I'm sure I won't be able to answer you more than what I find on Wikipedia just to answer those questions.

It's your opinion, I know, but opinions should not be absolutes, as one person taught me not long ago. I know you don't like NASCAR, you have been basically saying and implying it with your last posts on this thread. But because you don't like it, it doesn't mean it doesn't take place on GT5. After all, this is Kazunori's dream. Shouldn't he decide what's best to accomplish that dream?

The classification is the same as any other form of motor sports fan.. I for one am not a Nascar fan but think of myself as a ALMS fan. I get the urge to drive every time I hear and engine rev over 3k rpm Nascar will be part of GT no matter what now as sad as that is for me to say.. IMO Kaz has sold out and lost direction on the series with this move. Which he should decide ultimately the consumers will shows him if he made the correct one or not. M$ and T10 have a lot of consoles out there.. I highly doubt Nascar in GT5 will move many in comparison..

 

[TeggD]

Bashing Nascar because its in GT is quite silly.

I look forward to it moreso now. I bet you many people will enjoy the aspect. Its not like the game is being compromised in anyway. Its a great addition.

Wonder what the future holds? The feature list already excites more than anything.

 

[RACECAR]

RACECAR, jesus man!

Assuming thats in response to me multi quoting your post, I tend to dissect very big posts as its gets confusing reading through a huge paragraph and responding to certain subjects within said paragraph at the same time so sorry if this is killing you.

No because Nascar is based on the CoT and a few stickers.. The other series I listed as examples have strong ties to road cars. In turn it's much more believable to see a 430 Scud racing a Risi 430 GT then a Nascar CoT around Laguna..

There is more to Nascar(which is the name of the santioning body, not the car just to be clear) then the COT as their is also the cars in Nationwide (which are basically the original Cup Stock cars) and the Trucks.
Naturally, it makes since that the series you look at would have strong ties as thats mandated by certain sanctioning bodies for homolagation reasons.(Even though DTM cars are basically Silhouette race cars with only head lights and tail lights resembling street cars).

Hindsight is 20/20, spare us.. My point still stands

This is where you lose me(the hindsight part). So you point is(in your opinion mind you) GT has sold itself out just by including Nascar?

I'd say the current contemporary motor sports community does not include Nascar.. You can't deny it's following but there's a reason EA is dropping the series..

Your basically saying it has no fans, when as you just mentioned, it has a following. If it had no community, it wouldn't exist, period. Also, EA dropped the license because it has produced poor quality games with the NASCAR license and this showed in its sales on Nascar 09, which were very poor.

** I like the edit BTW, shows how great those things drift.. ermm I mean attempt to turn. FYI, I actually record the road coarse races.. both of them.

Obviously, those bricks were built mainly for speedway racing so naturally they don't have the turning ability of GT cars, You said "if they allowed a Nascar on Laguna Seca, it would totally ruin the realism" so I showed you real footage of such thing happening.

Trust me I wish PD wasn't out of touch or grasping for straws to attract mainstream America but this is just what we've been dealt

I'm not quite sure the where "Poor sales in North America" theory came from, but I'm sure this wasn't a some desperation for mainstream America. And in actually, mainstream america doesn't care about racing, period. Its mostly those live around those tracks or who grew up in a family that was already doing it.

IMO Kaz has sold out and lost direction on the series with this move. Which he should decide ultimately the consumers will shows him if he made the correct one or not. M$ and T10 have a lot of consoles out there.. I highly doubt Nascar in GT5 will move many in comparison..

Just for a friendly wager, I will hold you to those words then. If the sales in GT5 are much bigger then Forza's, then he made the right choice.

 

[CodeRedR51]

You can't deny it's following but there's a reason EA is dropping the series..

Sales were bad, yes. But it was because EA SUCKED at making NASCAR games.

 

[Comatosed]

Sales were bad, yes. But it was because EA SUCKED at making NASCAR games.

EA suck at making most games.

I'm actually looking forward to NASCAR being in GT, should offer up some close tight racing. Something which I enjoy.

 

[Dbo129]

Sales were bad, yes. But it was because EA SUCKED at making NASCAR games.

Here here 👍
I agree 110%

 

[Northstar]

Sales were bad, yes. But it was because EA SUCKED at making NASCAR games.

Yup, a game won't sell when it gets horrible reviews 2 years in a row.(both 08 & 09 got below 6/10 on ign)

 

[Earth]

I'd say the current contemporary motor sports community does not include Nascar..

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You and other NASCAR haters = FAIL

 

[Demon Drone]

You and other NASCAR haters = FAIL

Well when you hardly see any other racing series on TV it comes to no surprise. It's no wonder nobody in America talks about anything outside of it.