I have a theory. There are two types of people that purchased GT5.
- Thread starter Stigsblkcousin
- 163 comments
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Grinding is a good thing, it shows that a player can win the race more than once, and that there first time weren't jest a flook.
It's only abit like F1 2010, i won every race in my first season on easy, second season on medium i won every race, third season won every race on hard and the forth i won every race on expert. now i had 3 season left to do to complete the game, i sat for 2hours each race racing my car all the way to the finish just to finish the game. i completed the game, and every season i did the full race and qualifying. after the 4 season it got boring but still i carried on and so did many other people, because that is what gameing is all about, dooing things over to show you are the best
- 4,323
There are far more than 2 types... I am the type who has played most of the previous GT games and thoroughly enjoyed them but also have been growingly unhappy with areas in which GT is clearly stagnating. I am a racing fan in general and love everything from shmashemup burnout style games to rallisport to LFS.
I compare them all and am not at all afraid to call it like it is whether than means being brutally honest about falts or praising features.
I am a fan of progress, not a fan of a franchise and that seperates me from a lot of what you see around here.
Now as for the types of people, I see multipel types, but the type I see the most prominently is the type who mistakes a reasonable theory for proof of fact.
What you are doing is just that. You have examined the surface of the issue, built a theory around it and decided that since it's reasonable, it is true.
The problem is there are many reasonable and conflicting theories so obviously that test is not enough to determine if something is true or right.
Now as for your post:
Already incorrect. Plenty of people played the previous GT games and are shocked at the shortcommings of GT5. I will remind you that most of the "hype" which we are supposed to not have believed was actually created out of the beliefs and expectations of many long term GT fans.
One would have to know what it set out to do to make that claim. No one but Kaz really does and the fact that many groups exist touting simultaneously how GT5 has met it's goals and visions and also that it has fallen far short shows hw flawed this assumption is.
There are definitely people who came in uneducated on the subject. Many of whom were mislead eithe by published incorrect facts, bullshots, missleading press conference statements, wish wash ansers from Kaz, gaming convention presesntations and project plans... the list goes on.
This is the biggest flaw... they are not at all the only ones... I will mention here something that everyone needs to remember:
Often the most dedicated fans are the strongest critics.
This is true in many realms and video games is certainly no exception... just go ask Sonic Team.
The hype is a large part of the problem for sure as it always is. But one must pay attention to where that hype comes from if you want to start assesing blame.
Multiple press releases include statements like "we are constantly working to ensure the best experience and product for our fans".
Then there are lies of omission... it's one thing to not outright say it blunty, but when your words and images paint a picture you are careful to portray it's a kind of lying and it certainly makes you responsible for building the expectation. I point you to all the premium material we have seen and the very little standard up until launch. I also remind you we are indeed missing many features entirely that were talked about like youtube upload and 18MP photo mode.
As important as what they DID say is what they didn't clarify. Obviusly you don't have to list every negative thing about your product, but when there is a clear and reasonable expectatin that things will be a certain way (and you can't tell me that PD didn't know what we were all getting excited about this whole time) and you carefully skirt and ignore that subject, you are as guilty as anyone for the hype.
See above.
That's not true because much of the hype started with PD and wasn't stopped by them. It was directly contributed to and not in any way quashed when it was obvious that it was out there. Before you try to say it's not their responsibility to do so, it absolutely is. They are the only real source of info, if they don't disseminated it reasonably, that's on them as much as anyone.
You just got here. I wouldn't speak with such certaintly. This forum (as well as the GT commmunity in general) for the last few years has been basically that: 80% or so people telling you GT5 will be the best thing since sliced bread. I would know, I have been here wading knee deep in it for years.
Massively lower events, massive disparities across the board be it cars, tracks what have you, no where near solid 60fps, graphical anomalies and issues left and right (see shadows/particle effects), massive number of poor decisions in terms of game play and menu/GUI layout, signifincatly limited tuning options, many tuning, settings and description errors. The list goes on... it absolutely does not continue the trend of the past titles, in fact it's the only one that is noteably dissapointing on many fronts, look at the bug/glitch thread, look at how poor online is... this is the first GT to not at least stand strong against let alone blow away the competition on all fronts.
This is all dismissing that the "premium/standard" deal is quite deep and broad... it's far more than how a car looks... it affects how you can drive it (cockpit view) whether it can benefit from visual feedback like rain on the windshield, what and how you can tune it, what and how you can change and paint it... it affects the vast majority of the experience on multiple fronts.
And it's no secret that like windows, GT builds on it's predicessors shoulders. While the game code was done from scratch, 80% of the cars and many tracks are simply imports from previous GT games and even a lot of GTPSP assets were used (as is apparent in car description errors). To say other products came out in the meantime is like saying that Windows Vista was a different product than Windows 7 when we all know it was just basically an earlier version of 7.
You can't dismimss the 6 years if much of the "other" work done during those 6 years got used in GT5 in some way.
You aren't the first and you won't be the last to try and simplify it this way, but a word of advice, don't put forth a thery and then use that theory to tell people how they are wrong and why they should/shouldn't feel bad. You have a theory, not a fact and when you use your theory as fact, it makes you look bad.
See my sig.
I compare them all and am not at all afraid to call it like it is whether than means being brutally honest about falts or praising features.
I am a fan of progress, not a fan of a franchise and that seperates me from a lot of what you see around here.
Now as for the types of people, I see multipel types, but the type I see the most prominently is the type who mistakes a reasonable theory for proof of fact.
What you are doing is just that. You have examined the surface of the issue, built a theory around it and decided that since it's reasonable, it is true.
The problem is there are many reasonable and conflicting theories so obviously that test is not enough to determine if something is true or right.
Now as for your post:
Already incorrect. Plenty of people played the previous GT games and are shocked at the shortcommings of GT5. I will remind you that most of the "hype" which we are supposed to not have believed was actually created out of the beliefs and expectations of many long term GT fans.
One would have to know what it set out to do to make that claim. No one but Kaz really does and the fact that many groups exist touting simultaneously how GT5 has met it's goals and visions and also that it has fallen far short shows hw flawed this assumption is.
There are definitely people who came in uneducated on the subject. Many of whom were mislead eithe by published incorrect facts, bullshots, missleading press conference statements, wish wash ansers from Kaz, gaming convention presesntations and project plans... the list goes on.
This is the biggest flaw... they are not at all the only ones... I will mention here something that everyone needs to remember:
Often the most dedicated fans are the strongest critics.
This is true in many realms and video games is certainly no exception... just go ask Sonic Team.
The hype is a large part of the problem for sure as it always is. But one must pay attention to where that hype comes from if you want to start assesing blame.
Kaz
Multiple press releases include statements like "we are constantly working to ensure the best experience and product for our fans".
Then there are lies of omission... it's one thing to not outright say it blunty, but when your words and images paint a picture you are careful to portray it's a kind of lying and it certainly makes you responsible for building the expectation. I point you to all the premium material we have seen and the very little standard up until launch. I also remind you we are indeed missing many features entirely that were talked about like youtube upload and 18MP photo mode.
As important as what they DID say is what they didn't clarify. Obviusly you don't have to list every negative thing about your product, but when there is a clear and reasonable expectatin that things will be a certain way (and you can't tell me that PD didn't know what we were all getting excited about this whole time) and you carefully skirt and ignore that subject, you are as guilty as anyone for the hype.
See above.
That's not true because much of the hype started with PD and wasn't stopped by them. It was directly contributed to and not in any way quashed when it was obvious that it was out there. Before you try to say it's not their responsibility to do so, it absolutely is. They are the only real source of info, if they don't disseminated it reasonably, that's on them as much as anyone.
You just got here. I wouldn't speak with such certaintly. This forum (as well as the GT commmunity in general) for the last few years has been basically that: 80% or so people telling you GT5 will be the best thing since sliced bread. I would know, I have been here wading knee deep in it for years.
Massively lower events, massive disparities across the board be it cars, tracks what have you, no where near solid 60fps, graphical anomalies and issues left and right (see shadows/particle effects), massive number of poor decisions in terms of game play and menu/GUI layout, signifincatly limited tuning options, many tuning, settings and description errors. The list goes on... it absolutely does not continue the trend of the past titles, in fact it's the only one that is noteably dissapointing on many fronts, look at the bug/glitch thread, look at how poor online is... this is the first GT to not at least stand strong against let alone blow away the competition on all fronts.
This is all dismissing that the "premium/standard" deal is quite deep and broad... it's far more than how a car looks... it affects how you can drive it (cockpit view) whether it can benefit from visual feedback like rain on the windshield, what and how you can tune it, what and how you can change and paint it... it affects the vast majority of the experience on multiple fronts.
And it's no secret that like windows, GT builds on it's predicessors shoulders. While the game code was done from scratch, 80% of the cars and many tracks are simply imports from previous GT games and even a lot of GTPSP assets were used (as is apparent in car description errors). To say other products came out in the meantime is like saying that Windows Vista was a different product than Windows 7 when we all know it was just basically an earlier version of 7.
You can't dismimss the 6 years if much of the "other" work done during those 6 years got used in GT5 in some way.
You aren't the first and you won't be the last to try and simplify it this way, but a word of advice, don't put forth a thery and then use that theory to tell people how they are wrong and why they should/shouldn't feel bad. You have a theory, not a fact and when you use your theory as fact, it makes you look bad.
See my sig.
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- 3,038
- CA, USA
- Sum1s2pid
Forgot the addicts.
If all GT5 was was a single car slowly spinning on the screen, and that was it, I'd have bought it. Just a single car. Spinning. Slowly. On the screen.
Hell, GT5 could have been a 3-hour video of Kaz eating ice-cream and I would have thought it was the best thing ever.
If all GT5 was was a single car slowly spinning on the screen, and that was it, I'd have bought it. Just a single car. Spinning. Slowly. On the screen.
Hell, GT5 could have been a 3-hour video of Kaz eating ice-cream and I would have thought it was the best thing ever.
- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
Like I said people come up with fantastical reasons. What would be a good thing would be 50 - 100% more A spec races. For example the Mini Cup, only one track! The mini is a great little car, why not 3 or 4 tracks in that series. Very easy to implement but bizarrely the game designers decided on one track.
- 10
- m3sterfirewall
GT5 is my first Gran Turismo game, and I love it. I see no flaws because no game can ever be that oh so perfect game for everyone. Trying making something like a game and having it appeal to everyone, its impossible. Honestly this is a great game and in my opinion for only five (or six) years they have done a lot, I am truly impressed. Well done PD, You have my loyalty as a customer forever. This is hands down the best racing game I have played in my life, and I doubt anything will beat GT5 other than GT6, if there is one that is. So yes that does mean it is better then Forza, NFS, Grid, and so on.
And honestly for the people who the game let them down or whatever or they dont like it, simply stop playing, or accept the fact that the game isn't perfect. Yes there are flaws but what game does not have flaws? Nothing will ever be perfect for you. Ever.
This is a great game, PD is an amazing company and I love this game. Well done Polyphony Digital.
- Masterfirewall from Texas, United States of America.
And honestly for the people who the game let them down or whatever or they dont like it, simply stop playing, or accept the fact that the game isn't perfect. Yes there are flaws but what game does not have flaws? Nothing will ever be perfect for you. Ever.
This is a great game, PD is an amazing company and I love this game. Well done Polyphony Digital.
- Masterfirewall from Texas, United States of America.
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- 4,323
No it's a horrible thing. It's boring and it doens't prove anything about how good a player is unless you count having a massively overpowered car and bashing your way to a win with it proving how good you are.
What proves how god a player is is a diverse set of races on a diverse set of tracks that tests all your skills in different situations against differen and well matched competition with things like damage turned on to ensure you race fair and clean or suffer for it.
If this is all it takes to see no flaws then every game I have ever played I saw no flaws in!
IT could have been and probably would have been better to have more races on other tracks for the different cup but then people would say that there is too many races then.
plus if you put too many races on every section you wouldn't be able to fit all the programming onto one single disc, plus most people want more races with higher speeds.
- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
- 4,323
Not that multiple discs is somehow the end of the world but you I don't think you know what you are talking about...
Programing the events takes almost no space, the assets like actual cars and tracks are already there, just using them again over and over doens't take much space.
What you are saying is the equivalent of saying "I can't put more playlists on my mp3 player becuase it would run out of room!".
BTW the rip of GT5 is apparently 19GB... not even a BR25 let alone a BR50. Not that it matters in the way you think it does.
Another referal to my sig.
- 1,532
- Scotland
- Stephen220378
- 255
- GT5Racer0
I've played every GT game, so I knew what to expect and that they were over hyping it all these years. I like GT5, but there are graphical bugs like the particle system blockiness that should be fixed and other things of that nature. Shadow system can be tweaked. There shouldn't be ugly blob shadows under a car when it goes over a jump.. just use the dynamic shadow.. no need for two shadow systems...
- 4,323
And how do you suggest people figure out if they don't like it (so they can know not to buy it) unless those of us who have already bought it share our thoughts (postive and negative) so they can try to make an educated judgement?
You are one of the few then
Funny you should bring that up... 10 years ago we had this:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4218403#post4218403
Compare where we are with GT to that and it's MORE depressing.
i would be for how much people are complaning, graphics, more races, all the glitches, more tracks, more cars.
you could put it on a br50 gb, then people would compain that it would have take too long to install.
sometimes you just carnt win
- 1,532
- Scotland
- Stephen220378
- 1,532
- Scotland
- Stephen220378
- 7,636
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
- 4,323
Another person who doesn't understand how it works...
Having more races (ie more events using existing tracks just in a different order with different cars on it) takes almost NO extra space and the races take no longer to load as they do now.
Having more actual tracks (like adding in El Cap and Cita di Aria) would take more space on the disc but would again would take only about as long to load as any other race.
As for the initial 50 minute install, people were already complaining about that... I can't believe people would complain if it went to 55 or 60 minutes on account of more tracks and races. People are already hoping for DLC which takes longer to get than loading off the BR and probably will cost money...
- 10
- m3sterfirewall
Devedander
I will rephrase, yes there are flaws, learn to look past them or simply go play something else.
Do I like grinding no, I hate it. But it did something interesting to a game.
Do I want more premium cars, sure why not, but 200 out of 1000 is a lot.
Look at it this way, if a game company like PD went to go make GT6 for example and sat down and put everyones two cents into the game to make it perfect, then the game would simply not get finished and would be a giant money hole. Oh and the game would still not be perfect because there are over six billion people in the world. That would be unrealistic and terrible for business.
Just enjoy the game for what it is and what they have done in the game, if you don't like it then stop playing. Simple solution.
you would still get people complaining about something, enjoy the game, thats what it was created for
- 260
- ph3759/GTP_ph3759
I'd have to agree with the original post because over the past weeks I have been exposed to people at my school who belong to one of those types. Out of the 1000 students, there are only 50 or so people, including me that have played through most of the series and enjoyed every bit of it. Then there is the other group of 950 people that start nagging me to buy CoD whenever I mention GT5.
