I tried AC and got faster lap with P1 and MP4-12c gt3 than F1 GTR.How is it possible?
- Thread starter MclarenGT
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- Under the Hood
Looks like for GT3's you're looking at 1:45's to 1:49's.
The fact that we have road legal cars than can bumble about all day then go door to door with a GT3 car is staggering...
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Off-topic, but I don't think any of those cars had Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome.Regarding this,I think I have shown enough lap times to prove that F1 GTR was faster and that too many times.
I don't think,I know that F1 GTR is the fastest among this trio.The F1 GTR may not have ABS,TC and other aids but that doesn't mean it will be slower than GT3.FYI 90'S Cars also had AIDS like F50 had TC,959 had ABS and TC,GT2 racer 90's too had aids.And besides AIDS(except ABS)only make peak laptimes slower as pro drivers don't need them.
So,yeah this thread is pointless in one way because all of you believe GT3 is faster(some even believe GT3 is faster than Group C) when it is not.
@Harry6784 Did even tell that 100mph downforce is wrong in CAR magazine or Motortrend(who may have tested it) because it is not simulated correctly in AC, WOW.
If somebody asked to do test in 5th gear it would be good.
...no? ok.
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- stiters
An F1 GTR has not lapped there.
No,P1 won't beat a GT3 even with slicks on highly technical track.
Edit:I have found curitiba laptimes for F1 GTR and GT3 car
F1 GTR 1:15.75(non championship race,2hr curitiba)
GT3 1:16.735(Brasil GT)
And curitiba was in same configuration since 1988
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- Under the Hood
Throw R-Compound tires on the P1 with a driver familiar with that track and it'll go deep into the 1:40's. Chris may be a good driver but he has almost no experience around that track compared to the GT3 regular's.
No surprise here. The low downforce, lightweight, high powered car designed for high speed tracks dominates on a track with long straights.
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Harris has plenty of track experience as he seems to do every second video review at Portimao.
And it's a big ask for the combination of a pro driver upgrade (over a more-than-competent driver like Chris) and racing slicks (over a Trofeo R) to find 8 seconds around a 3-mile-ish circuit.
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- stiters
But GT3 car has more downforce than P1.To beat GT3 you will need a P1 GTR.GT3 genetares 1000kg at 125mph and P1 generates 600kg at 160mph.
How do you know that F1 GTR has low downforce because it generates enough downforce to run along ceiling at 120mph(according to official site somewhere) if not 100mph.
And then F1 GTR is also faster on jarama right which is said to be a highly technical track and is only 9m wide and has lack of run off area.And it was also in same configuration.You can also google search on jarama for that issue.And jarama is so much technical that they are trying to extend its straight by 2021.
And regarding curitiba,according to racingcircuits.info it is a very bumpy track where Mclaren F1 GTR used to suffer according to anderstorp videos in youtube by commentators.And anderstorp is good circuit for cars with high corner speeds like Lotus Espirit GT1 in that same video.And at anderstorp comparision video wasn't Mclaren even ahead in corners of the track.
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I've personally seen people pick up 3+ seconds on a minute long autocross run just from running slicks. Tires can make a huge difference, as you saw when they switched to the Trofeo R's which is basically a sticky summer tire. Again, I don't doubt Chris's driving ability, just his experience around that track.
Love these speculative claims
Ever consider the fact that the GT3 has nearly half the power of the P1 and the P1 has active aerodynamics with DRS? Downforce isn't everything.
Nearly every track you posted that has the F1 'beating' a GT3 has a long main straight with long high speed corners; which is what the F1 was designed for and does excellently.
Like I said, different tracks suite different cars. Don't know how many more times I'll have to say it.
Tired Tyres
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When are you going to stop thinking downforce is some sort of magical force that means your car simply must go faster because its got more of it? GT cars are mechanical grip limited - not aero grip limited which is downforce lead.
GT3 is BOP controlled for balance. The P1 isn't. The 918 isn't. LaFerrari isn't. Horse power is the decisive factor here, not a theoretical ability to run upside down. As long as they have the suspension to take slicks and you put a pro driver behind the wheel they should be able to at least match the slowest GT3 cars.
LeGeNd-1
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Having more downforce can also backfire for GT3 cars as it severely limits their top speed. On a track like Portimao with its long front straight it can cost you lots of time. IIRC 250 km/h is tops for GT3, whereas in Chris' video the P1 tops 280 km/h without breaking a sweat.
So assuming P1 is on slicks and track mode (lowered suspension & more aggressive rear wing setting) vs GT3 or F1 GTR:
Top speed & high speed acceleration: P1 wins (more power + DRS)
Low speed acceleration: P1 wins (more power + electric torque fill + slicks)
High speed (aero) grip: probably GT3 wins (most downforce, but P1 not far behind)
Low speed (mechanical) grip: P1 & GT3 about the same as long as they are on same slicks (F1 GTR due to old chassis & suspension tech is behind)
Braking: GT3 and F1 GTR should have the edge here (lighter + racing brakes)
So as you can see by every metric of comparison the P1 is pretty damn close for a road car (as long as it's on slicks). It's not unthinkable on a suitable track with a long enough straight and lots of high downforce dependent corners the P1 will hassle the GT3 and GTR all day long. The difference won't be as big as depicted in AC, but it will surprise you how well it can keep up.
So assuming P1 is on slicks and track mode (lowered suspension & more aggressive rear wing setting) vs GT3 or F1 GTR:
Top speed & high speed acceleration: P1 wins (more power + DRS)
Low speed acceleration: P1 wins (more power + electric torque fill + slicks)
High speed (aero) grip: probably GT3 wins (most downforce, but P1 not far behind)
Low speed (mechanical) grip: P1 & GT3 about the same as long as they are on same slicks (F1 GTR due to old chassis & suspension tech is behind)
Braking: GT3 and F1 GTR should have the edge here (lighter + racing brakes)
So as you can see by every metric of comparison the P1 is pretty damn close for a road car (as long as it's on slicks). It's not unthinkable on a suitable track with a long enough straight and lots of high downforce dependent corners the P1 will hassle the GT3 and GTR all day long. The difference won't be as big as depicted in AC, but it will surprise you how well it can keep up.
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Okay thank you for correcting me.
But then I would like to ask why roadlegal F1 GTR longtail(47.52s) was faster than P1(53s) on goodwood hillclimb?On braking part I think F1 GTR would be worst as it has smallest brakes among the three.
But I do agree that P1 would be very close to GT3.
Read my old comment I said GT3 would beat P1 slicks on technical track about fast tracks I am not sure.If those tracks are not technical then I would use agera one on those tracks as it has topspeed of 283mph according to manufacturer and then I would set fastest lap with it.I've personally seen people pick up 3+ seconds on a minute long autocross run just from running slicks. Tires can make a huge difference, as you saw when they switched to the Trofeo R's which is basically a sticky summer tire. Again, I don't doubt Chris's driving ability, just his experience around that track.
Love these speculative claims
Ever consider the fact that the GT3 has nearly half the power of the P1 and the P1 has active aerodynamics with DRS? Downforce isn't everything.
Nearly every track you posted that has the F1 'beating' a GT3 has a long main straight with long high speed corners; which is what the F1 was designed for and does excellently.
Like I said, different tracks suite different cars. Don't know how many more times I'll have to say it.
Regarding Jarama,I have driven on that track on other games,cars with better corner speeds are faster there else Ferrari 126CK would have set fastestlap there in 1981 spanish gp because it had very high power.People who have driven there also say it is technical,but like you said jarama does have 900m straight.
But F1 GTR would not be faster just because it is fast on straightline.Now see the onboard videos of Jarama and decide yourself.Nearly every review I have seen of jarama said it to be very technical by people who have driven there.And then F1 won't cut 3s from GT3 at jarama in similar conditions,then it would be 0.5s slower instead,if slower on corner significantly.
I know that downforce does not increase topspeeds ,it only improves cornering speeds.When ever I said it is faster,I meant it is faster around corner not straightline.
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LeGeNd-1
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Goodwood is a show event. The P1 driver could be taking it easy or don't want to damage the car. Jann Mardenborough did a 49s with GT-R Nismo road car so P1 could obviously go a lot faster if they pushed.
Besides, my argument was for P1 on slicks. I doubt the P1 up Goodwood was on slicks.
EDIT: Also the GT-R GT3 did a 47.37s which is as fast as the F1 GTR.
Also found the video of the F1 GTR Longtail, which did 47.98s and 47.52s. It doesn't say that it's not on slicks. On the second run it's also compared directly to Loeb's time in the Pikes Peak car which was on slicks, so there's no reason to assume this one is "road legalised" and using road tyres.
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http://www.motor1.com/news/54048/road-legal-mclaren-f1-gtr-longtail-looks-spectacular/
There you can see the 19r chassis on road with license plate
And look at the tires of the car,they are definitely road tires.Also a non roadlegal car wouldn't be given a license plate ,right?Also I had posted this info and video several times on this thread.
With longtail and GT3 there is no contest hands down F1 GTR will win in that case.In spa it was even faster than group c porsche 956
Porsche 956 2:09.3
Mclaren F1 GTR LT 2:08.984
Track maps can be viewed here.
It implies that F1 GTR LT must have been very handy in corners unlike its predecesser shorttail.With right setup normal one could have also done 2:13s considering that F40 did it in 2:13s.
Thank You those were exactly the words I wanted to hear.
If P1 was not pushed to limits then how do you know F1 GTR was?Also F1 GTR could be held back as only 28 are made damaging it may cost more than a million.
And look at tires just before the run do they look like slicks taken from topgear site ,zoom it to the tires.
The tires clearly have groovings so it is not slick tire afterall.
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LeGeNd-1
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It's wearing road tyres in the videos you posted, but there's no evidence that it couldn't have been swapped out for slicks before the Goodwood run. The license plates are also taken off in that run. So it could be in a non road legal configuration for all we know.
And the run was definitely pushed. All officially timed runs are generally for speed. You can see the car squirming in the corners. It wouldn't do that if the driver is just taking it easy. Squirming on purpose is even more dangerous so it's not showing off either.
So at the end of the day without knowing the exact tyres on that particular run we can't really draw comparisons. Again back to square one.
And the run was definitely pushed. All officially timed runs are generally for speed. You can see the car squirming in the corners. It wouldn't do that if the driver is just taking it easy. Squirming on purpose is even more dangerous so it's not showing off either.
So at the end of the day without knowing the exact tyres on that particular run we can't really draw comparisons. Again back to square one.
Tired Tyres
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@MclarenGT Cars typically run on non slick tyres when they are being moved around the paddock.
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Reason for jumping is that it has very stiff suspension ,very high downforce.Do you have laptimes for audi pikes peak 89.The tires used were trofeo tires/F1 tires not the slicks the the above photo you will see groovings in the tires.The thing is that I have seen road video before that run.
So how can we verify the tires used?The tires have same michellin tattoo on both road and goodwood video.
From Racing sports cars F1 GTR laptimes are sighificantly faster than Maserati MC12 GT1 2005 version but on goodwood it is 3s slower.
@Tired Tyres
I have confirmed now that they were not slick before the shootout photos
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- Johnnypenso
There is 14 years of tire and suspension development along with aerodynamic advancement between those two times. Without knowing the exact weather conditions and a comparison of at least the tire compounds, your comparison is weak at best, pointless at worst. The only way to know which car was actually fastest is to get them on the same rubber, at the same track, on the same day, and lap them full out.
For anyone using Goodwood Hillclimb times for comparison...no. It's a hillclimb exhibition on a very narrow and dangerous track. Forget it.
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Actually drivers there compete to set the fastest lap of the year and they do get prizes for it.
Normal GTR has also been tested there but I don't know its laptime.
The development may have taken place in areodynamics,suspension and most importantly brakes.Gordon Murray wanted Carbon Brakes for F1 but could not do it as at that time they could not make it work at low temp so at low temp old racer brakes won't be good.But due to restrictions downforce levels of todays cars are much lower than what used to be during those times,but mechanical grip is better.
And F1 GTR shouldn't use 90's slick in AC as that would mean that there was no development in tire tech between group c era & 95 era.It should use more like 95 slicks.But regarding GT3 vs GT1 like F1 GTR.I too believed that GT3 was faster before I looked into lap times.Also remember that Mclaren F1 in road trim has perfect weight distribution,good drag coefficient figures,decent downforce,etc and was way ahead of its time and till today it's looks are hardly aged.
F1 GTR LT at goodwood did not used slicks but still lapped as fast as GT3 car and faster than P1.So P1 with slicks won't beat either GT3 or F1 GTR unless it has a spoiler and suspension upgrades.
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Comparison video of the P1, GT3 and F1 GTR @ Algarve (P1 on street tires). As always all are on their default setup (GTR & GT3 on soft compounds).
Surprisingly realistic times. Was about a second faster than Chris but I mostly attribute that to being able to run at 100% and not having to worry about butchering someone's million dollar hypercar
After tweaking the settings on the GT3 I was able to run mid 46's which is right where current GT3 cars run.
Notice the huge gap in speeds achieved on the main straight between the GT3 and GTR yet almost identical times.
After tweaking the settings on the GT3 I was able to run mid 46's which is right where current GT3 cars run.
Notice the huge gap in speeds achieved on the main straight between the GT3 and GTR yet almost identical times.
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The tires that were on the Longtail F1 for the hill climb were definitely different than the tires that were on the car for the video where it had on a license plate. In the Goodwood hillclimb video you can clearly see brand new white lettering - which to me looks like Michelin slicks - whereas the other video, you can't see any white lettering. I have no proof, of course, but it's my opinion that the car was running slicks. Just because the car was converted for "road legal use" doesn't mean that they ran it in Goodwood in road legal status. Look at the P1, for instance, you can make the car road legal or non-road legal with the push of a button.
LeGeNd-1
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Comparison video of the P1, GT3 and F1 GTR @ Algarve (P1 on street tires). As always all are on their default setup (GTR & GT3 on soft compounds).
Surprisingly realistic times. Was about a second faster than Chris but I mostly attribute that to being able to run at 100% and not having to worry about butchering someone's million dollar hypercar
After tweaking the settings on the GT3 I was able to run mid 46's which is right where current GT3 cars run.
Notice the huge gap in speeds achieved on the main straight between the GT3 and GTR yet almost identical times.
Great comparison again 👍 Just curious, is it possible in AC to toggle "Race Mode" on/off in the P1? The one where it lowers the car and raises the rear spoiler even higher. Chris' lap is already with race mode on though so it still wouldn't explain the time difference (the fear factor is most likely as you said). And is DRS automatically activated for you? I've read somewhere that DRS for the P1 at Monza is borked (apparently because Ferrari doesn't want the P1 beating LaF around there).
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- stiters
It had white lettering but that was just put on a tattoo,Michellin slick may look like this
At goodwood run it's tires had those tattoos
This is closeup view for tires(look carefully at the tires,you may see the groovings.
Comparison video of the P1, GT3 and F1 GTR @ Algarve (P1 on street tires). As always all are on their default setup (GTR & GT3 on soft compounds).
Surprisingly realistic times. Was about a second faster than Chris but I mostly attribute that to being able to run at 100% and not having to worry about butchering someone's million dollar hypercar
After tweaking the settings on the GT3 I was able to run mid 46's which is right where current GT3 cars run.
Notice the huge gap in speeds achieved on the main straight between the GT3 and GTR yet almost identical times.
Great video indeed but I can clearly see GT3 exiting corner faster.I have uploaded Anderstorp video comparision video,Adjusted GTR a bit behind the R8 LMS GT3 so that they reach the 1st corner at the same time,F1 exited the corner first and was 3s faster in terms of laptimes
The R8 LMS was driven by daniel roos and F1 GTR was by Raphanel/Owens.
In Anderstorp video F1 was even ahead in corners.In fastest lap run,it must be significantly ahead in every corners.Also Algarve is a straight line track so F1 GTR should be faster there
But it doesn't look as technical asJarama
Anderstorp(I am not sure about Anderstorp)
Algarve has longest straight among the three.So it is not technical.I would suggest a Jarama run.
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- Johnnypenso
Comparison video of the P1, GT3 and F1 GTR @ Algarve (P1 on street tires). As always all are on their default setup (GTR & GT3 on soft compounds).
Surprisingly realistic times. Was about a second faster than Chris but I mostly attribute that to being able to run at 100% and not having to worry about butchering someone's million dollar hypercar
After tweaking the settings on the GT3 I was able to run mid 46's which is right where current GT3 cars run.
Notice the huge gap in speeds achieved on the main straight between the GT3 and GTR yet almost identical times.
Well done.👍👍
/end thread
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