I tried AC and got faster lap with P1 and MP4-12c gt3 than F1 GTR.How is it possible?

[Harry6784]

I took those track because those are the only tracks I could find in same configurations,but jarama,anderstorp are decently technical,if you don't mind if tracks are not in same configuration then these are the other qualifying laptimes from racing sports car.
Monza
5.8km Mclaren F1 GTR 1:43.045
5.773km Ferrari 458 italia 1:46.571
Paul Richard
5.813km Mclaren F1 GTR 1:53.270
5:791km Lamborghini Huracan GT3 1:56.638
Brands Hatch
4.184km Mclaren F1 GTR 1:22.110
3.916km Audi R8 LMS Ultra 1:23.269

If all the above are power tracks,then I am sorry we cannot compare them directly,but F1 GTR is slower even on power tracks in AC in leaderboard page,if you have brands hatch test it there.And remember F1 GTR is not the fastest GT1 car of its day F40,911 set much faster laptimes.

In AC F1 GTR monza is 1:48.944,MP4-12c GT3 is 1:45.510.That was the point I wanted to make,i.e F1 GTR is even slower on power track.

It is important to note the date the "records" were set since the latest 1.3 update significantly slowed many of the race cars. Current record for the MP4 at Monza is supposedly 1:48.1 set way back in March. If you scroll through the times the quickest time set since the 1.3 update is a mid 1:53. I personally set a 1:55.0 on the default setup. For the GTR I set a 1:50.7 again on the default setup, significantly faster just showing that on power tracks the F1 dominates.

Regarding downforce figures F1 GTR 95 develops enough downforce to run at walls upside down in 100mph,read the motortrend
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/112_0004_2000_mclaren_f1_supercar/viewall.html
these are their words at that paragraph.
"Fast forward to Le Mans in the summer of 1995, where all seven of Murray's new F1 GTRs qualified for McLaren's debut in the classic enduro event. The conversion had been reluctantly approved by Dennis on a shoestring budget, resulting in a package that was basically a standard F1 stripped of trim and equipment, with rear wing, modified underfloor diffuser, side skirts, rollcage, and racing instruments. It was 90 kilograms (200 pounds) lighter than the road car, slightly down on power (600 horsepower against 627), but massively up on torque (527 pound-feet against 479), and it created so much downforce it could run along the ceiling at 100 mph."
Do you know the downforce figures for GT3 car,I have seen a video in which an engineer says a nissan nismo gt3 produces 1000kg downforce at 120mph.

Every manufacture claims that at XXX speed you can drive our car upside down. But even considering downforce being equal on both cars there is no way around modern brakes/tires. After setting the 1:50 in the GTR and switching to the MP4 the biggest difference were braking points. I could brake much, much later in the MP4 compared to the GTR further showing how much of a better car it is on technical tracks.

 

[MclarenGT]

It is important to note the date the "records" were set since the latest 1.3 update significantly slowed many of the race cars. Current record for the MP4 at Monza is supposedly 1:48.1 set way back in March. If you scroll through the times the quickest time set since the 1.3 update is a mid 1:53. I personally set a 1:55.0 on the default setup. For the GTR I set a 1:50.7 again on the default setup, significantly faster just showing that on power tracks the F1 dominates.



Every manufacture claims that at XXX speed you can drive our car upside down. But even considering downforce being equal on both cars there is no way around modern brakes/tires. After setting the 1:50 in the GTR and switching to the MP4 the biggest difference were braking points. I could brake much, much later in the MP4 compared to the GTR further showing how much of a better car it is on technical tracks.

Even then on tracks like Nurburgring,Monza,Spa,etc F1 GTR will be 3-4s faster than GT3 car.
F1 GTR generates enough downforce to run upside down at 100mph.Weight of the 1995 GTR is 1050kg,inorder to run at 100mph upside down,it must generate downforce at least equal to its mass to overcome gravity.So it will produce 1050kg at 100mph,a GT3 produces 1000kg at 120mph.So at 120mph F1 GTR will produce at least 1512kg downforce(downforce directly proportional square of velocity).

I have done F1 GTR vs GT3 car in many simulators,in each of them F1 GTR was faster.Also racing drivers who have driven them both also said that we were just beginning to catchup with laptimes of short tail GTR,I will show that video if I find it.

I have tried comparision in GT6,F1 GTR was only slower on very tight track like GT arena,that can be attributed to improvement in tire technology,handling difference is negligible.By the way race cars are setup for a particular track so no point in comparing non adjusted car.

In AC I am faster with GT3 in all the tracks including high speed tracks,no F1 does not dominate even at high speed tracks.Anyway I have downloaded Jarama today and I will post the test laps today.

Edit:Test results at Jarama with stock settings,Jarama is a technical track,not power track,it has many slow corners.
MP4-12c GT3 1:40 fastest gt3 real time1:33.213
F1 GTR 1:43 fastest real time 1:30.052
In real life F1 GTR is even slightly faster on technical tracks like jarama.Regarding Zhuhai,yes it is a moderately power track and moderately technical.
No,braking points in real life are almost same,see the videos of racing with mclaren f1 and GT3.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I have tried comparision in GT6,F1 GTR was only slower on very tight track like GT arena,that can be attributed to improvement in tire technology,handling difference is negligible.By the way race cars are setup for a particular track so no point in comparing non adjusted car.

GT3.

The tire model in GT6 is generic so there are no allowances for changes in tire technology between the cars.

 

[MclarenGT]

The tire model in GT6 is generic so there are no allowances for changes in tire technology between the cars.

I used SS tires on F1 GTR and RS on GT3 for considering advancement in tires,still F1 GTR was faster.
However in comparing F1 GTR,MP4-12C GT2,P1 GT3 is more accurate.In GT6 SS=90's Slick Hard/Medium
RH=90's Slick Soft.
But I don't think that 90's slick has grip as low as in AC.You should see the video of racing drivers driving it,there is no tire squeeling sound to be heard as in AC.
And by the way GT3 and racecar laptimes are more accurate in GT6 than AC where GT3 cars are insanely fast.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I used SS tires on F1 GTR and RS on GT3 for considering advancement in tires,still F1 GTR was faster.

Funny how you leave out that little detail of being 3 tire compounds different on the cars and call it "tire technology". Either way, the results you get in a different videogame are irrelevant to both real life and any other videogame.

 

[MclarenGT]

Funny how you leave out that little detail of being 3 tire compounds different on the cars and call it "tire technology". Either way, the results you get in a different videogame are irrelevant to both real life and any other videogame.

But still F1 GTR is faster atleast during qualifier IRL and I have source for lap times,F1 GTR was faster in anderstorp,jarama,zhuhai,monza,brands hatch,le mans,paul richard.If you can give me just one proof that GT3 is faster in qualifier not including AC or any other simulator,it has to be from a data base and real life videos,I will believe your claims and once again tracks must not be significantly different.

 

[Ialyrn]

@MclarenGT Are you sure this isnt just a case of you personally struggling with the Mclaren F1 race car in AC?

 

[MclarenGT]

@MclarenGT Are you sure this isnt just a case of you personally struggling with the Mclaren F1 race car in AC?

Yes,if you want to verify this see the fastest laptimes in this place,if it was only my problem,then I would not have made this thread here
http://www.radiators-champ.com/RSRLiveTiming/index.php?page=rank&track=993&car=1200
It is even slower on power track like monza.
Edit:I am now looking for onboard video to see the braking point of GT3 vs F1 gtr on same track.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I used SS tires on F1 GTR and RS on GT3 for considering advancement in tires,still F1 GTR was faster.
However in comparing F1 GTR,MP4-12C GT2,P1 GT3 is more accurate.In GT6 SS=90's Slick Hard/Medium
RH=90's Slick Soft.
But I don't think that 90's slick has grip as low as in AC.You should see the video of racing drivers driving it,there is no tire squeeling sound to be heard as in AC.
And by the way GT3 and racecar laptimes are more accurate in GT6 than AC where GT3 cars are insanely fast.

What is your sources for RH=90's Slick Soft? You are just making that up and it doesn't lend you a lot of credibility.
Tire squeal in AC has nothing to do with real life. It's a videogame.

To be honest, I don't think you understand the difference between games and real life because you seem to just mix and match the two willy nilly, as if what happens in a game is somehow the same as real life and the two sets of data can be interchanged. Here's a hint - you can't. All you can do is take real life lap times and the real conditions that existed at that time and try to match them in game, run your laps, and see what happens. If you can't be certain on the weather conditions, the exact tire compounds in real life and in the game, then your test is not really valid.

I've never compared AC times to real life, but I would expect AC to be better than real life. We run lap after lap on the absolute limit because there are no consequences whatsover. We can oversteer around corners all we like without fear of death, damage to the car, or wearing out the tires. We can run qualifying rubber for 100 laps or more to get that perfect lap if we want to. I'd expect in any game with realistic physics that a good sim pilot will be faster than even the best real life driver, simply due to the lack of risk and the ability of the sim driver to exploit the absolute limits of the physics engine.

If you really believe there is a performance issue with the GTR, you should be taking it up with Kunos on their forum, but you can't use a scattershot approach like you have here. You need to carefully plot your data, not make things up like, "this tire in game = this tire in real life" or comparing real life tire squeal to tire squeal in the game as somehow being proof of anything. You'll be laughed out of the forum and rightfully so. But if you can use logic and present your data in an organized and justifiable way, and stand up to some harsh interrogation, you might have a chance to get some changes made in the game.

 

[Ialyrn]

Yes,if you want to verify this see the fastest laptimes in this place,if it was only my problem,then I would not have made this thread here
http://www.radiators-champ.com/RSRLiveTiming/index.php?page=rank&track=993&car=1200
It is even slower on power track like monza.
Edit:I am now looking for onboard video to see the braking point of GT3 vs F1 gtr on same track.

Not everyone who plays Assetto Corsa users the "RSR Live Timing" app, so it is not really any indication of the fastest drivers that Assetto Corsa has to offer. I don't use it personally, and I have trounced countless people in races online in that game. But even that is no indication of how fast I can drive in that game.

As it stands, that app isn't even an indication of how fast the F1 GTR can be driven in the game, and it is also not an indication of how fast you can personally drive it. Just because you are competent in the GT3 cars in AC, doesn't mean that you can drive the F1 GTR equally as good. Isn't it possible that you are just personally struggling to get more out of it?

You have yet to show your own driving in Assetto, you are just throwing out times and random information in an effort to prove your point. And as @Johnnypenso just pointed out, your point is becoming a bit wish-washy the longer this thread goes on. Especially when you are using tracks made by the modding community, which may or may not be totally accurate. Using a track put in game by Kunos would provide much more accurate data, but it would still beg the question if you driving in letting you down in the F1 GTR compared to the GT3 cars.

I am not saying this to be nasty, and I am not even saying that you are rubbish at driving in Assetto. But we all have our limits, and some of those limits can be met a lot sooner in a virtual car we are not 100% comfortable with. All it takes is for the rear to get a little loose once or twice, or for us to understeer in a few corners. and then we can end up babying the car around the track. Which will result in a slower or equal laptime to another car we can push reasonably well. And these are factors you have yet to address in this entire thread.

 

[Harry6784]

Even then on tracks like Nurburgring,Monza,Spa,etc F1 GTR will be 3-4s faster than GT3 car.
F1 GTR generates enough downforce to run upside down at 100mph.Weight of the 1995 GTR is 1050kg,inorder to run at 100mph upside down,it must generate downforce at least equal to its mass to overcome gravity.So it will produce 1050kg at 100mph,a GT3 produces 1000kg at 120mph.So at 120mph F1 GTR will produce at least 1512kg downforce(downforce directly proportional square of velocity).

I have done F1 GTR vs GT3 car in many simulators,in each of them F1 GTR was faster.Also racing drivers who have driven them both also said that we were just beginning to catchup with laptimes of short tail GTR,I will show that video if I find it.

I have tried comparision in GT6,F1 GTR was only slower on very tight track like GT arena,that can be attributed to improvement in tire technology,handling difference is negligible.By the way race cars are setup for a particular track so no point in comparing non adjusted car.

In AC I am faster with GT3 in all the tracks including high speed tracks,no F1 does not dominate even at high speed tracks.Anyway I have downloaded Jarama today and I will post the test laps today.

Edit:Test results at Jarama with stock settings,Jarama is a technical track,not power track,it has many slow corners.
MP4-12c GT3 1:40 fastest gt3 real time1:31.892
F1 GTR 1:43 fastest real time 1:30.052
In real life F1 GTR is even slightly faster on technical tracks like jarama.Regarding Zhuhai,yes it is a moderately power track and moderately technical.
No,braking points in real life are almost same,see the videos of racing with mclaren f1 and GT3.

Not to sound offensive but the F1 GTR is an extremely difficult car to drive quickly compared to a GT3 which is much, much more forgiving. This could be the reason in your tests the GT3 is quicker. But at Monza I had the GTR nearly 5 seconds faster.

The tire model in GT6 is generic so there are no allowances for changes in tire technology between the cars.

Comparing the tire models between GT6 and AC is like comparing a paper airplane to a space shuttle.

I used SS tires on F1 GTR and RS on GT3 for considering advancement in tires,still F1 GTR was faster.
However in comparing F1 GTR,MP4-12C GT2,P1 GT3 is more accurate.In GT6 SS=90's Slick Hard/Medium
RH=90's Slick Soft.
But I don't think that 90's slick has grip as low as in AC.You should see the video of racing drivers driving it,there is no tire squeeling sound to be heard as in AC.
And by the way GT3 and racecar laptimes are more accurate in GT6 than AC where GT3 cars are insanely fast.

See above post.

@MclarenGT Are you sure this isnt just a case of you personally struggling with the Mclaren F1 race car in AC?

This. An average driver will be able to push a GT3 car as stable as the MP4 to nearly 100% of its capability while an old school GT1 car require much more finesse. Notice in my video how much feathering of the throttle and sawing at the wheel I had to do in the F1 compared to the MP4.

What is your sources for RH=90's Slick Soft? You are just making that up and it doesn't lend you a lot of credibility.
Tire squeal in AC has nothing to do with real life. It's a videogame.

To be honest, I don't think you understand the difference between games and real life because you seem to just mix and match the two willy nilly, as if what happens in a game is somehow the same as real life and the two sets of data can be interchanged. Here's a hint - you can't. All you can do is take real life lap times and the real conditions that existed at that time and try to match them in game, run your laps, and see what happens. If you can't be certain on the weather conditions, the exact tire compounds in real life and in the game, then your test is not really valid.

I've never compared AC times to real life, but I would expect AC to be better than real life. We run lap after lap on the absolute limit because there are no consequences whatsover. We can oversteer around corners all we like without fear of death, damage to the car, or wearing out the tires. We can run qualifying rubber for 100 laps or more to get that perfect lap if we want to. I'd expect in any game with realistic physics that a good sim pilot will be faster than even the best real life driver, simply due to the lack of risk and the ability of the sim driver to exploit the absolute limits of the physics engine.

If you really believe there is a performance issue with the GTR, you should be taking it up with Kunos on their forum, but you can't use a scattershot approach like you have here. You need to carefully plot your data, not make things up like, "this tire in game = this tire in real life" or comparing real life tire squeal to tire squeal in the game as somehow being proof of anything. You'll be laughed out of the forum and rightfully so. But if you can use logic and present your data in an organized and justifiable way, and stand up to some harsh interrogation, you might have a chance to get some changes made in the game.

I'm trying to follow his train of though but he jumps all over the place referencing Formula 1 lap times then laps of tracks in different layouts then running his own tests in GT6.

 

[gtnoobie]

May I suggest for a time attack challenge on stock F1 GTR on maybe Monza/sarthe to see how fast the aliens here can manage. Then in next challenge, P1 GT3. That could help put some of the assumptions and hypothesis to test as some of you are within 1 second of the very best in the world. With a larger sample size of elite sim drivers, the result could be more accurate. This clears up one aspect of the argument which is how these cars compares in AC. I would love to join except that my laptimes would be a slow outlier which serves no purpose for discovering the car's potential.
Interesting thread but needs some conclusion or closure.

 

[MclarenGT]

Not to sound offensive but the F1 GTR is an extremely difficult car to drive quickly compared to a GT3 which is much, much more forgiving. This could be the reason in your tests the GT3 is quicker. But at Monza I had the GTR nearly 5 seconds faster.



Comparing the tire models between GT6 and AC is like comparing a paper airplane to a space shuttle.



See above post.



This. An average driver will be able to push a GT3 car as stable as the MP4 to nearly 100% of its capability while an old school GT1 car require much more finesse. Notice in my video how much feathering of the throttle and sawing at the wheel I had to do in the F1 compared to the MP4.



I'm trying to follow his train of though but he jumps all over the place referencing Formula 1 lap times then laps of tracks in different layouts then running his own tests in GT6.

Okay then test the car at Brands hatch,It should be more than 5s faster in current configuration.As far as I am concerned,I am an average driver now and an playing AC after one year of gap,in the mean time I was playing GT6 and some old school games like NFS High Strakes Test Drive Unlimited and other arcade games.

If you want to try out at jarama then you can download it here and report the result,it may not be scanned by Kunos but still it has same layout as in real life.In real life F1 GTR(1:30.052) was 1.84s faster than fastest GT3 car(1:31.892) in qualifier.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/mnn6fljr8jzt6md/jarama+1.0.rar

Also test at old spa which you told you would try and report laptimes.

No,I am not refering to my lap times,I was refering to laptimes set by expert racers at monza,nurburgring,spa,etc F1 was slower on every track.Yes,I can understand that F1 is a difficult car to push hard.The thing is that none of the simulator is accurate.For eg Mclaren F1 in GT6 is too overpowered and has way better handling than in real life on the other hand some GT3 cars like SLS AMG GT3 underperform.

Incase of my old laptimes in AC I did 2:24 with F1 GTR,2:19 with MP4-12c GT3.

As far as lap times in AC is concerned,MP4-12c GT3 does in nurburgring.8:02.306(FL of 6:28.529 in north ring) in AC but in real life it was lucky to go 8:10.9(6:40 equivalent which you can estimate from video in north ring).In this case GT6 is more accurate.

For MP4-12c in GT6 fastest lap is 6:48 and that of AC is 7:15.Here AC is more accurate.

For Pagani Huayra fastest lap in GT6 is 6:56 and that in AC is 6:41.So here GT6 is more accurate.

But in monza,5.8km F1 GTR did 1:43 in real life while in AC it only did 1:48 laptime,5s slowers in 5.79km,but no test data available at brands hatch.

The mod tracks I used were directly converted from iracing which used laserscanned tracks,I have not played iracing so I don't know how much accurate it is.So far the sims I have played are GT6,Supercar challenge,NFS SHIFT,Total Immersion Racing and AC.

Not everyone who plays Assetto Corsa users the "RSR Live Timing" app, so it is not really any indication of the fastest drivers that Assetto Corsa has to offer. I don't use it personally, and I have trounced countless people in races online in that game. But even that is no indication of how fast I can drive in that game.

As it stands, that app isn't even an indication of how fast the F1 GTR can be driven in the game, and it is also not an indication of how fast you can personally drive it. Just because you are competent in the GT3 cars in AC, doesn't mean that you can drive the F1 GTR equally as good. Isn't it possible that you are just personally struggling to get more out of it?

You have yet to show your own driving in Assetto, you are just throwing out times and random information in an effort to prove your point. And as @Johnnypenso just pointed out, your point is becoming a bit wish-washy the longer this thread goes on. Especially when you are using tracks made by the modding community, which may or may not be totally accurate. Using a track put in game by Kunos would provide much more accurate data, but it would still beg the question if you driving in letting you down in the F1 GTR compared to the GT3 cars.

I am not saying this to be nasty, and I am not even saying that you are rubbish at driving in Assetto. But we all have our limits, and some of those limits can be met a lot sooner in a virtual car we are not 100% comfortable with. All it takes is for the rear to get a little loose once or twice, or for us to understeer in a few corners. and then we can end up babying the car around the track. Which will result in a slower or equal laptime to another car we can push reasonably well. And these are factors you have yet to address in this entire thread.

No,I drive F1 GTR as well as I can.From what I can see,it just doesn't generate enough downforce as in real life i.e 1050kg @100mph,while in GT3 car I can feel the downforce,personally I drive more with F1 GTR because it is more fun to do so.

What is your sources for RH=90's Slick Soft? You are just making that up and it doesn't lend you a lot of credibility.
Tire squeal in AC has nothing to do with real life. It's a videogame.

To be honest, I don't think you understand the difference between games and real life because you seem to just mix and match the two willy nilly, as if what happens in a game is somehow the same as real life and the two sets of data can be interchanged. Here's a hint - you can't. All you can do is take real life lap times and the real conditions that existed at that time and try to match them in game, run your laps, and see what happens. If you can't be certain on the weather conditions, the exact tire compounds in real life and in the game, then your test is not really valid.

I've never compared AC times to real life, but I would expect AC to be better than real life. We run lap after lap on the absolute limit because there are no consequences whatsover. We can oversteer around corners all we like without fear of death, damage to the car, or wearing out the tires. We can run qualifying rubber for 100 laps or more to get that perfect lap if we want to. I'd expect in any game with realistic physics that a good sim pilot will be faster than even the best real life driver, simply due to the lack of risk and the ability of the sim driver to exploit the absolute limits of the physics engine.

If you really believe there is a performance issue with the GTR, you should be taking it up with Kunos on their forum, but you can't use a scattershot approach like you have here. You need to carefully plot your data, not make things up like, "this tire in game = this tire in real life" or comparing real life tire squeal to tire squeal in the game as somehow being proof of anything. You'll be laughed out of the forum and rightfully so. But if you can use logic and present your data in an organized and justifiable way, and stand up to some harsh interrogation, you might have a chance to get some changes made in the game.

Yes about SS tire=RH 90's is just my assumption when compared to real life laptimes,it may have nothing to do with real life.I created this thread to know if anyone else has noticed this, like @Bigbazz said F1 GTR drives like a dog in AC and it is a well known fact that it underperforms,see this thread from page 3 to read that.
Yes,I would definitely report it to KUNOS after I confirm it.By the way Group C cars also underperforms.In track like spa Group C like Sauber C11 is even faster than an LMP.And no older spa was slower in terms of laptimes,I have read somewhere that it wasn't resurfaced until 2004 or 2007 so tarmac had lower grip.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Okay then test the car at Brands hatch,It should be more than 5s faster in current configuration.As far as I am concerned,I am an average driver now and an playing AC after one year of gap,in the mean time I was playing GT6 and some old school games like NFS High Strakes Test Drive Unlimited and other arcade games.

If you want to try out at jarama then you can download it here and report the result,it may not be scanned by Kunos but still it has same layout as in real life.In real life F1 GTR(1:30.052) was 1.84s faster than fastest GT3 car(1:31.892) in qualifier.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/mnn6fljr8jzt6md/jarama+1.0.rar

What real life tires did each car use and are they replicated in the game? What were the weather conditions? How old was the track surface each time? Are the layouts identical? (see below)

As far as lap times in AC is concerned,MP4-12c GT3 does in nurburgring.8:02.306(FL of 6:28.529 in north ring) in AC but in real life it was lucky to go 8:10.9(6:40 equivalent which you can estimate from video in north ring).In this case GT6 is more accurate.

No. Just no. If you can only do the same lap times in a video game as you can in real life on the Nords, then the game is inaccurate. No driver in his right mind in real life will push his car on the Nords as hard as a sim racer. We can run over curbs with abandon, ride out being airborne at 200+ km/h like it's nothing. We can hit the wall at 250km/h and hit reset. A videogame with perfectly accurate physics vs. real life, a good sim racer will always be faster than a real life driver, end of story. Quit making unrealistic comparisons between games and real life.

But in monza,5.8km F1 GTR did 1:43 in real life while in AC it only did 1:48 laptime,5s slowers in 5.79km,but no test data available at brands hatch.

Monza layout 1997 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

Monza layout in AC:

Notice anything?

Again, I'm not saying you are wrong and that the cars are perfectly represented, but there are so many holes in your reasoning and train of thought as to make pretty much everything you are saying invalid. As I said earlier, you really need to do more research and present your case in a more organized manner. This scattershot approach only makes your case worse, not better.

 

[MclarenGT]

What real life tires did each car use and are they replicated in the game? What were the weather conditions? How old was the track surface each time? Are the layouts identical? (see below)

No. Just no. If you can only do the same lap times in a video game as you can in real life on the Nords, then the game is inaccurate. No driver in his right mind in real life will push his car on the Nords as hard as a sim racer. We can run over curbs with abandon, ride out being airborne at 200+ km/h like it's nothing. We can hit the wall at 250km/h and hit reset. A videogame with perfectly accurate physics vs. real life, a good sim racer will always be faster than a real life driver, end of story. Quit making unrealistic comparisons between games and real life.

Monza layout 1997 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

Monza layout in AC:

Notice anything?

Again, I'm not saying you are wrong and that the cars are perfectly represented, but there are so many holes in your reasoning and train of thought as to make pretty much everything you are saying invalid. As I said earlier, you really need to do more research and present your case in a more organized manner. This scattershot approach only makes your case worse, not better.

Thank you,from what I notice,in 1996 monza had 2 chicanes in AC it had one,so old monza may be slower but I am not sure about it.However in Brands Hatch configurations
http://www.racingcircuits.info/europe/united-kingdom/brands-hatch.html#.ViZYnMrhntQ

In 2003 they removed dingle bell corner from the track and replaced it by Sheene making it much faster.

The jarama,zhuhai,anderstorp configuration remains same except pit changes

http://www.racingcircuits.info/europe/spain/jarama.html#.ViZZT8rhntQ

http://www.racingcircuits.info/europe/sweden/anderstorp.html#.ViZZusrhntQ

http://www.racingcircuits.info/asia/china/zhuhai.html#.ViZaUsrhntQ

The weather conditions for F1 GTR laps are as follows
Anderstorp Cool,dry 1:28.408
Zhuhai Cloudy,dry 1:31.886
Brands Hatch warm, clearing, dry 1:22.110
Monza Warm,dry 1:43.045
Jarama Hot,Dry 1:30.053

GT3 laps with weather conditions
Zhuhai dry 1:34.461 Ferrari 458 italia 2013
Brands Hatch,ideal(dry) 1:23.269 Audi R8 LMS 2015
Monza Cold,dry 1:46.571 Ferrari 458 Italia 2015
Jarama sunny,dry 1:33.213 Porsche 997 GT3 2010

I said MP4-12c was lucky in setting 8:10 becaouse other GT3 cars are more than 7s slower in terms of laptime.In GT6 GT3,racecar laptimes are more accurate while production car laptimes are in AC.Mostly GT6 laps are slower than AC with same racecars,and some production cars.
By the way how do you put the link without displaying the url?

 

[Ialyrn]

@MclarenGT Again you are trying to compare laptimes from the real world set by pro's, t9o those that are set on some USER CREATED tracks in Assetto Corsa, Or that are ripped from other games. These tracks may or may not be accurate. And you are also trying to compare times set in the real world on old layouts, and compare them to those set on modern layouts.

As Johnnypenso just said:

What real life tires did each car use and are they replicated in the game? What were the weather conditions? How old was the track surface each time? Are the layouts identical?

As it stands, the only times that would be valid here. Is if you was to take the real car out to the modern layout of Monza or Spa, and then take the same car out on the same layout in Assetto Corsa. And for a test like that to be accurate, you would have to use only official Kunos laser scanned tracks. Not user created tracks. Not to mention that tires make all the difference. So in the case of the F1 GTR, you would have to use racing slicks from the 90's.

On the F1 GTR in Assetto, as far as I can see. It is running on period racing tires from the 90's. Not modern racing slicks that are on the 12C GT3. These tires are not going to afford the same grip levels as the modern racing tire equivalent, which means they will break traction more easily at the limit.

Also test at old spa which you told you would try and report laptimes.

I never said I would test and report back, you have me confused with someone else. Not to mention that I wouldn't compare laptimes from a user created track to those of real life, just as I dont tend to with the official tracks and car combo's.

No,I drive F1 GTR as well as I can

Exactly, you are driving as well as you can. That doesn't mean you are driving that particular car in AC as fast it can be driven.

it just doesn't generate enough downforce as in real life i.e 1050kg @100mph,while in GT3 car I can feel the downforce

Without even realizing it, you have just confirmed what I was talking about in my last post. You are clearly more comfortable with the Mclaren 12-C GT3 than you are with the F1 GTR. Regardless of how much you enjoy driving it in Assetto. And as such, you are more confident in pushing the GT3 car to its limits and beyond.

 

[MclarenGT]

@MclarenGT Again you are trying to compare laptimes from the real world set by pro's, t9o those that are set on some USER CREATED tracks in Assetto Corsa, Or that are ripped from other games. These tracks may or may not be accurate. And you are also trying to compare times set in the real world on old layouts, and compare them to those set on modern layouts.

As Johnnypenso just said:



As it stands, the only times that would be valid here. Is if you was to take the real car out to the modern layout of Monza or Spa, and then take the same car out on the same layout in Assetto Corsa. And for a test like that to be accurate, you would have to use only official Kunos laser scanned tracks. Not user created tracks. Not to mention that tires make all the difference. So in the case of the F1 GTR, you would have to use racing slicks from the 90's.

On the F1 GTR in Assetto, as far as I can see. It is running on period racing tires from the 90's. Not modern racing slicks that are on the 12C GT3. These tires are not going to afford the same grip levels as the modern racing tire equivalent, which means they will break traction more easily at the limit.



I never said I would test and report back, you have me confused with someone else. Not to mention that I wouldn't compare laptimes from a user created track to those of real life, just as I dont tend to with the official tracks and car combo's.

Exactly, you are driving as well as you can. That doesn't mean you are driving that particular car in AC as fast it can be driven.



Without even realizing it, you have just confirmed what I was talking about in my last post. You are clearly more comfortable with the Mclaren 12-C GT3 than you are with the F1 GTR. Regardless of how much you enjoy driving it in Assetto. And as such, you are more confident in pushing the GT3 car to its limits and beyond.

No,the testing at old spa was in reply to Harry6784 not you.But I never said I was more comfortable with F1 GTR,I said even experts lap MP4-12c GT3 faster and I am by no means an expert.

"If you are talking about downforce,the article of motortrend states that it generates enough downforce to run upside down at 100mph"
And its weight is 1050kg so it should alteast produce 1050kg downforce to overcome gravity.In the game it just don't have that much downforce in group c cars like C9 you can feel the tremendous downforce in its kit.

Well,I have posted real life laptimes for same track,same configuration many times and nobody looked into it,F1 GTR was faster on each and every track with same configuration.See anderstorp,jarama,zhuhai yes, those three tracks are in same configuration.Really I am tired to posting those lap times dozens of times.

For your Information qualifying laptimes are set by softest tires available.Only slick tires available are 90's slick.The weather condition is posted in my above comment.

 

[daan]

"If you are talking about downforce,the article of motortrend states that it generates enough downforce to run upside down at 100mph"
And its weight is 1050kg so it should alteast produce 1050kg downforce to overcome gravity.In the game it just don't have that much downforce in group c cars like C9 you can feel the tremendous downforce in its kit.

You are putting way too much emphasis on that one throwaway line that has no proof to back it up.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Thank you,from what I notice,in 1996 monza had 2 chicanes in AC it had one,so old monza may be slower but I am not sure about it.However in Brands Hatch configurations
http://www.racingcircuits.info/europe/united-kingdom/brands-hatch.html#.ViZYnMrhntQ

In 2003 they removed dingle bell corner from the track and replaced it by Sheene making it much faster.

The jarama,zhuhai,anderstorp configuration remains same except pit changes

http://www.racingcircuits.info/europe/spain/jarama.html#.ViZZT8rhntQ

http://www.racingcircuits.info/europe/sweden/anderstorp.html#.ViZZusrhntQ

http://www.racingcircuits.info/asia/china/zhuhai.html#.ViZaUsrhntQ

The weather conditions for F1 GTR laps are as follows
Anderstorp Cool,dry 1:28.408
Zhuhai Cloudy,dry 1:31.886
Brands Hatch warm, clearing, dry 1:22.110
Monza Warm,dry 1:43.045
Jarama Hot,Dry 1:30.053

GT3 laps with weather conditions
Zhuhai dry 1:34.461 Ferrari 458 italia 2013
Brands Hatch,ideal(dry) 1:23.269 Audi R8 LMS 2015
Monza Cold,dry 1:46.571 Ferrari 458 Italia 2015
Jarama sunny,dry 1:33.213 Porsche 997 GT3 2010

I said MP4-12c was lucky in setting 8:10 becaouse other GT3 cars are more than 7s slower in terms of laptime.In GT6 GT3,racecar laptimes are more accurate while production car laptimes are in AC.Mostly GT6 laps are slower than AC with same racecars,and some production cars.
By the way how do you put the link without displaying the url?

That 90's version of Monza is quite a bit faster than the current one...guessing around 3 seconds but that's pure guesswork and it might even be more. I believe it's in Gran Turismo isn't it? I know I drove it somewhere in the last year or so.

To use the links without the URL, save the URL to your clipboard with your mouse, type into the post whatever words you want to use for the link, use the mouse to highlight that text and then use the link button in the toolbar (to the right of the A) and paste the URL into that space provided.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Monza has had a much slower first chicane and re-profiled first Lesmo to slow it down due to lack of run off.

Its also had runoff tarmac added on the outside of the final turn - that speeds up that turn as it allows the track to be attacked harder.

All that means is that it just isn't comparable at all.

 

[MclarenGT]

You are putting way too much emphasis on that one throwaway line that has no proof to back it up.

No these downforce claims are not my words,these are motortrend's words.To feel the downforce you must try to take a turn,a car with higher downforce may feel sticky in cornering and if it has too much downforce then it will have unpredictable handling.If you want to read the statement,read ,my previous comments,it is there somewhere.
Mclaren F1 LM Motortrend Test
F1 LM is very similar to GTR version.
This article clearly states that it can run upside down at 100mph,to estimate the downforce figure at that speed I just calculated the force required to overcome gravitational force.Here are my steps-
Let m be mass of mclaren f1 gtr
the article states that it is 90kg lighter than F1 and mass of Mclaren F1 is 1140kg so
m=1140-90=1050kg.
Force of gravity on F1 GTR=m*g=1050*9,81N=10300.5N
For it to succussfully run upside down then the downforce reaction force must be equal to the force of gravity on the car.
So downforce at that speed=10300.5N=1050kg downforce.
This is my proof

That 90's version of Monza is quite a bit faster than the current one...guessing around 3 seconds but that's pure guesswork and it might even be more. I believe it's in Gran Turismo isn't it? I know I drove it somewhere in the last year or so.

To use the links without the URL, save the URL to your clipboard with your mouse, type into the post whatever words you want to use for the link, use the mouse to highlight that text and then use the link button in the toolbar (to the right of the A) and paste the URL into that space provided.

No,GT6 only has current monza,okay I agree that old monza may be faster by 3s still it should be faster than gt3.Okay neglecting all laps in other configuration,then my question is why is F1 GTR faster in tracks with similar layouts like in anderstorp,zhuhai and jarama and that too with similar conditions atleast in qualifiers?
The old chicanes had better entry speeds in monza compared to todays layout but slower exits.I have seen the videos in those circuits.And racing drivers say that the entry speed does not matter much but exit speeds matter.Any way we don't know which layout will be faster until we have a game with both the track layout.Anyway thankyou for telling me linking process.

Monza has had a much slower first chicane and re-profiled first Lesmo to slow it down due to lack of run off.

Its also had runoff tarmac added on the outside of the final turn - that speeds up that turn as it allows the track to be attacked harder.

All that means is that it just isn't comparable at all.

Yes,I agree with you monza isn't comparable at all.It may be slower or it may be faster,we just don't know.I would agree with all that F1 GTr is slower than GT3 if anyone trys the jarama and gets faster lap with F1 GTR by 1s but slower on other tracks.But laps must be done using correct settings.
But were you refering to old monza or new monza in that comment,I am a bit?

 

[DynamicPanik]

The fastest race lap in the 24 hours of spa 2015 is a 2:18 something

 

[Tired Tyres]

No these downforce claims are not my words,these are motortrend's words.To feel the downforce you must try to take a turn,a car with higher downforce may feel sticky in cornering and if it has too much downforce then it will have unpredictable handling.If you want to read the statement,read ,my previous comments,it is there somewhere.
Mclaren F1 LM Motortrend Test
F1 LM is very similar to GTR version.
This article clearly states that it can run upside down at 100mph,to estimate the downforce figure at that speed I just calculated the force required to overcome gravitational force.Here are my steps-
Let m be mass of mclaren f1 gtr
the article states that it is 90kg lighter than F1 and mass of Mclaren F1 is 1140kg so
m=1140-90=1050kg.
Force of gravity on F1 GTR=m*g=1050*9,81N=10300.5N
For it to succussfully run upside down then the downforce reaction force must be equal to the force of gravity on the car.
So downforce at that speed=10300.5N=1050kg downforce.
This is my proof



No,GT6 only has current monza,okay I agree that old monza may be faster by 3s still it should be faster than gt3.Okay neglecting all laps in other configuration,then my question is why is F1 GTR faster in tracks with similar layouts like in anderstorp,zhuhai and jarama and that too with similar conditions atleast in qualifiers?
The old chicanes had better entry speeds in monza compared to todays layout but slower exits.I have seen the videos in those circuits.And racing drivers say that the entry speed does not matter much but exit speeds matter.Any way we don't know which layout will be faster until we have a game with both the track layout.Anyway thankyou for telling me linking process.

Yes,I agree with you monza isn't comparable at all.It may be slower or it may be faster,we just don't know.I would agree with all that F1 GTr is slower than GT3 if anyone trys the jarama and gets faster lap with F1 GTR by 1s but slower on other tracks.But laps must be done using correct settings.
But were you refering to old monza or new monza in that comment,I am a bit?

My Monza description? That's the most modern version.

 

[MclarenGT]

The fastest race lap in the 24 hours of spa 2015 is a 2:18 something

That laptime was set in 2014 by Audi R8 LMS,I think it would be faster this year.

 

[daan]

No these downforce claims are not my words,these are motortrend's words.To feel the downforce you must try to take a turn,a car with higher downforce may feel sticky in cornering and if it has too much downforce then it will have unpredictable handling.If you want to read the statement,read ,my previous comments,it is there somewhere.
Mclaren F1 LM Motortrend Test
F1 LM is very similar to GTR version.
This article clearly states that it can run upside down at 100mph,to estimate the downforce figure at that speed I just calculated the force required to overcome gravitational force.Here are my steps-
Let m be mass of mclaren f1 gtr
the article states that it is 90kg lighter than F1 and mass of Mclaren F1 is 1140kg so
m=1140-90=1050kg.
Force of gravity on F1 GTR=m*g=1050*9,81N=10300.5N
For it to succussfully run upside down then the downforce reaction force must be equal to the force of gravity on the car.
So downforce at that speed=10300.5N=1050kg downforce.
This is my proof

I know that English isn't your first language, but you don't seem to understand basic principles either.

I know they're not your words. And to be fair, they're not Motortrend's words either.

I'm also not disputing your mathematics.

All I'm saying is that just because something is written in a magazine article doesn't make it true. That is not proof. Find me McLaren saying "F1 GTR produces enough downforce to run upside down at 100mph." Find me Gordon Murray saying it. Find other proof of that. And finding a CAR magazine article won't count as that is a CAR magazine article.

(Note: I'm also not saying that it is not true. It could very well be true, but there should at least be some other proof of it out there.)

As I hope you have worked out by now, due to the fact that many peopleare telling you, your comparisons are mostly useless. You are comparing real life to a game. You are comparing cars of different eras. You are comparing tracks in different configurations, and different climatic conditions. None of these thing can be compared. You also assume too much ("If the 24H time is this, then the Nordschliefe time will be this." If we don't have a distinct and separate Nordschliefe time then we don't have a Nordschliefe time.)

 

[MclarenGT]

Nurburgring time can be estimated from above video +add some seconds to consider 0.75mile length.Other tracks may be in other configurations but Anderstorp,Jarama and Zhuhai are not visit racingcircuit site to verify it.

That line(downforce)was said by le mans 3rd position winner Andy Wallace.They must have said it after they conducted a wind tunnel test.I do understand English but it is just that I don't like it when they don't read the comments carefully and examine the links carefully.

Motortrend said that word to be precise I have that magazine issue with me exact words were "The car produce so much downforce that it could run along the ceiling at 100mph."

I know that English isn't your first language, but you don't seem to understand basic principles either.

I know they're not your words. And to be fair, they're not Motortrend's words either.

I'm also not disputing your mathematics.

All I'm saying is that just because something is written in a magazine article doesn't make it true. That is not proof. Find me McLaren saying "F1 GTR produces enough downforce to run upside down at 100mph." Find me Gordon Murray saying it. Find other proof of that. And finding a CAR magazine article won't count as that is a CAR magazine article.

(Note: I'm also not saying that it is not true. It could very well be true, but there should at least be some other proof of it out there.)

As I hope you have worked out by now, due to the fact that many peopleare telling you, your comparisons are mostly useless. You are comparing real life to a game. You are comparing cars of different eras. You are comparing tracks in different configurations, and different climatic conditions. None of these thing can be compared. You also assume too much ("If the 24H time is this, then the Nordschliefe time will be this." If we don't have a distinct and separate Nordschliefe time then we don't have a Nordschliefe time.)

But when racing drivers themselves said they are just beginning to catch up with the laptimes of F1 GTR short tail in an interview,then what more proof is needed?Besides do you really think that Le Man winning F1 GTR (which could lap 3:57 in the wet) will only barely manage a sub 7 lap time in nurburgring like in AC, when in the contrast a hybrid like 918 spider can do 6:57,a semi racing car like Zonda R can achieve 6:47 with semislicks?I have found an anderstorp lap video



To be honest I would expect a simulator to give correct modelling,correct physics and laptimes to be similar to real life.People do say that in AC each and every car is perfectly simulated and they are mirror images to their real life counterparts.To be precise GT6 also features laser scanned tracks for new tracks,yet there are some differences in tracks of GT6 and AC.

The video I put for spa comparision was just to compare braking points of the corner and cornering speeds will be more or less similar,not for comparing 97 F1,02 F1,13 F1.

And remember F1 GTR was not the fastest lap setter it was only average in laptimes and I am comparing it with best of GT3,MP4-12c could lap 2:21 at spa whereas fastest lap for GT3 spa I know is 2:18.A GTE did 2:16 in spa.

Le mans is not only about topspeed,it would also require handling skills.A 97 F1 GTR which could only acheive 196mph in mulsanne straight was faster in lap time than 96 F1 GTR which could acheive 207mph in mulsanne straight,it is not the matter of speed it is the matter of handling.

Just did some extra research sorry 1:31.892 Jarama laptime was for R8 LMS GT2 version,Fastest GT3 Lap was 1:33.213 in 2010 FIA GT in similar condition to GTR.
Really I wondered how GT3 car got so close to F1 GTR when it was slower by 3s in other tracks.

 

[Harry6784]

Nurburgring time can be estimated from above video +add some seconds to consider 0.75mile length.Other tracks may be in other configurations but Anderstorp,Jarama and Zhuhai are not visit racingcircuit site to verify it.

Did you not read what @daan posted? You can't use hypothetical comparisons or estimations if you want to realistically compare these cars.

That line(downforce)was said by le mans 3rd position winner Andy Wallace.They must have said it after they conducted a wind tunnel test.I do understand English but it is just that I don't like it when they don't read the comments carefully and examine the links carefully.

Motortrend said that word to be precise I have that magazine issue with me exact words were "The car produce so much downforce that it could run along the ceiling at 100mph."

Again, assuming too much. Show me an explicit statement from a designer of the F1 stating how much downforce it creates, not a driver getting paid to race it.

But when racing drivers themselves said they are just beginning to catch up with the laptimes of F1 GTR short tail in an interview,then what more proof is needed?Besides do you really think that Le Man winning F1 GTR (which could lap 3:57 in the wet) will only barely manage a sub 7 lap time in nurburgring like in AC, when in the contrast a hybrid like 918 spider can do 6:57,a semi racing car like Zonda R can achieve 6:47 with semislicks?I have found an anderstorp lap video

Zonda R is only 20kg heavier than the F1 GTR yet has 150 more horsepower, modern slicks, huge brembo carbon ceramic brakes and downforce capable of 1,500kg. I don't see why you would think the GTR would be faster around the Nurb than the Zonda when it is an inferior car in nearly every measurable way.

To be honest I would expect a simulator to give correct modelling,correct physics and laptimes to be similar to real life.People do say that in AC each and every car is perfectly simulated and they are mirror images to their real life counterparts.To be precise GT6 also features laser scanned tracks for new tracks,yet there are some differences in tracks of GT6 and AC.

It's not about the accuracy of the tracks but the physics that go into driving a car on a track. And in that department AC and GT6 are on different planets.

 

[DynamicPanik]

That laptime was set in 2014 by Audi R8 LMS,I think it would be faster this year.

That time was set by the winning z4 gt3 from mark vds racing

 

[DynamicPanik]

Thank you,from what I notice,in 1996 monza had 2 chicanes in AC it had one,so old monza may be slower but I am not sure about it.However in Brands Hatch configurations
http://www.racingcircuits.info/europe/united-kingdom/brands-hatch.html#.ViZYnMrhntQ

In 2003 they removed dingle bell corner from the track and replaced it by Sheene making it much faster.

The jarama,zhuhai,anderstorp configuration remains same except pit changes

http://www.racingcircuits.info/europe/spain/jarama.html#.ViZZT8rhntQ

http://www.racingcircuits.info/europe/sweden/anderstorp.html#.ViZZusrhntQ

http://www.racingcircuits.info/asia/china/zhuhai.html#.ViZaUsrhntQ

The weather conditions for F1 GTR laps are as follows
Anderstorp Cool,dry 1:28.408
Zhuhai Cloudy,dry 1:31.886
Brands Hatch warm, clearing, dry 1:22.110
Monza Warm,dry 1:43.045
Jarama Hot,Dry 1:30.053

GT3 laps with weather conditions
Zhuhai dry 1:34.461 Ferrari 458 italia 2013
Brands Hatch,ideal(dry) 1:23.269 Audi R8 LMS 2015
Monza Cold,dry 1:46.571 Ferrari 458 Italia 2015
Jarama sunny,dry 1:33.213 Porsche 997 GT3 2010

I said MP4-12c was lucky in setting 8:10 becaouse other GT3 cars are more than 7s slower in terms of laptime.In GT6 GT3,racecar laptimes are more accurate while production car laptimes are in AC.Mostly GT6 laps are slower than AC with same racecars,and some production cars.
By the way how do you put the link without displaying the url?

Never mind I didn't read it all

 

[MclarenGT]

Did you not read what @daan posted? You can't use hypothetical comparisons or estimations if you want to realistically compare these cars.



Again, assuming too much. Show me an explicit statement from a designer of the F1 stating how much downforce it creates, not a driver getting paid to race it.




Zonda R is only 20kg heavier than the F1 GTR yet has 150 more horsepower, modern slicks, huge brembo carbon ceramic brakes and downforce capable of 1,500kg. I don't see why you would think the GTR would be faster around the Nurb than the Zonda when it is an inferior car in nearly every measurable way.




It's not about the accuracy of the tracks but the physics that go into driving a car on a track. And in that department AC and GT6 are on different planets.

If you think these are not words of motortrend then I have attached the page which states it,please read full document.

The tires used by zonda r was done using P zero tires,they are not slicks but semi slicks which Huayra used to set top gear record lap,with slicks it would lap much faster.

F1 GTR in general is set up for faster acceleration in sacrifice of topspeed.For your information ,F1 GTR also had carbon brakes which was not available for road car as tech was not mature enough at that time to make it work at cold temperature.

Regarding Andy Wallace,he is the man who has driven Mclaren F1 all version on several occassions from top speed test to le mans 24hr.
I am sure he knows more about F1 than all of us here.Also Zonda R is not a complete racecar it is just a track day car.He also said that standard F1 was feeling like it was not moving at 280kph i.e it was so much stable in topspeed run.Every magazine does tunnel test to find out the car's downforce.

Regarding downforce figure,you car see it on somewhere mclarens site,I am sure that I have read it there once.And the downforce figure was for 95 version,96 version is basically the same except some modifications for easier pits.

I think GT6 has created more pro drivers by GT Academy.The lap times for Huayra,GT3 cars,etc are more accurate in GT6 than AC.

I think you should read Driving Ambition book written by its designers where everything is stated about Mclaren F1.Now coming back to laptimes the lap times,okay I would agree that anderstorp and zhuhai are not technical tracks.But jarama is a technical track where F1 GTR was 2.16s faster than GT3 in similar condition(the 1:31.892 was for a GT2 racer).

If Zonda R produces 1500kg at 350km/h then it will not have enough downforce to run along ceiling at 100mph atleast that is sure ,so in downforce figure F1 GTR>Zonda R.
from @DynamicPanik statement I can tell that there was no improvement in GT3 lap in this year,maybe I overestimated it.In 2014 too it lapped a best of 2:18.