Immigration

[Dennisch]

I need to drive into Germany on Monday for work (crossing the border between Groningen and Bremen) - despite how far north it is, I will not all be surprised if I get my passport looked at.

I would gladly show my passport to the Germans if that means that there's extra security at the border.

 

[A2K78]

Germany and other European countries are making things worst

https://mises.org/library/governments-give-migrants-disastrous-mix-social-welfare-and-bureaucracy

 

[TenEightyOne]

Germany and other European countries are making things worst

https://mises.org/library/governments-give-migrants-disastrous-mix-social-welfare-and-bureaucracy

They lost me at the point where they said that migration is more dangerous than staying in a warzone. From a libertarian publication (albeit one that claims a "Confederate" ideology) I find their overall editorial on the subject a little odd.

 

[mister dog]

Incredible:

https://en-maktoob.news.yahoo.com/no-complete-rethink-refugees-paris-attack-juncker-101811716.html

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said Sunday there was no need for a complete review of the bloc's refugee policy after the Paris attacks claimed by Islamic State jihadists.

"Those who organised, who perpetrated the attacks are the very same people who the refugees are fleeing and not the opposite. And so there is no need for an overall review of the European policy on refugees," Juncker said ahead of a summit of the Group of 20 top world economies in the Turkish Mediterranean resort of Antalya.

Blatantly ignoring that 2 of those scumbag that shot up people in Paris entered as 'refugees'...

 

[Dotini]

“It’s all very well to have a compassionate, multi-cultural vision in principle, but in practice we do not seem to know who is among us, and whether they share our values."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...gger-through-the-heart-of-liberal-Europe.html

 

[mister dog]

“It’s all very well to have a compassionate, multi-cultural vision in principle, but in practice we do not seem to know who is among us, and whether they share our values."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...gger-through-the-heart-of-liberal-Europe.html

Good read, but i fear it's already too late. Right wing parties will soar all over Europe just because our current liberal politicians don't act when they need to.

Like the article says, they minimize the threat of the current refugee crisis but people aren't as ignorant to not see what is happening, and they will vote right wing as there's no doubt they will impose a though stance on immigration.

 

[Dennisch]

70% of the Dutch people want border control back in full form. People are fed up with the mellow stance of our government.

 

[Griffith500]

They lost me at the point where they said that migration is more dangerous than staying in a warzone. From a libertarian publication (albeit one that claims a "Confederate" ideology) I find their overall editorial on the subject a little odd.

They said that it's more dangerous than staying in the first "safe" country they come to (most of them are in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan). That could be debated, also, since there were stories of abuse in Turkey, for example.

Austrian School economists are against the welfare state in general, though; notice they also point to the needless bureaucracy and expense of asylum applications and the strange situation of migrants granted asylum or (temporary or otherwise) residency still not being allowed to work freely in the EU. Namely, it's very counter-intuitive and self-sabotaging to make it so attractive for migrants to come, but to make it so difficult for them to actually make a contribution unless they meet certain criteria ("brain drain"). The author suggests making it less attractive (no welfare) and much easier (no red tape), and the issue will sort itself out.

“It’s all very well to have a compassionate, multi-cultural vision in principle, but in practice we do not seem to know who is among us, and whether they share our values."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...gger-through-the-heart-of-liberal-Europe.html

From the "Mises" source a few posts up, "economic migrants" are unlikely to share our values when those values are being distorted and mis-sold to them by people-smugglers; for example they quote costs per person instead of benefits actually received and underplay the reality of the often temporary nature of their stay in the target country... To what benefit to the smugglers, I don't know.

The point of a multi-cultural society is that your neighbour probably doesn't share your values. But such differences exist regardless of mixing cultures (or "classes"...) or not, and in the extreme just the same. (The source of the extract you isolated is the Henry Jackson Society, which is apparently "neo-conservative" in the US definition - time to educate myself.)


I'm personally more concerned whether these attacks have been facilitated with arms sourced from within the EU, as was the case with the Charlie Hebdo shootings.

 

[A2K78]

They lost me at the point where they said that migration is more dangerous than staying in a warzone. From a libertarian publication (albeit one that claims a "Confederate" ideology) I find their overall editorial on the subject a little odd.

So you're saying people should take a chance by putting themselves in a situation where they have a high chance of dying as oppose to a warzone where the chance of dying of dying low?

 

[Dennisch]

After Hungary and Slovenia, Macedonia is now also planning to fence up their border with Greece.

 

[doblocruiser]

Good read, but i fear it's already too late. Right wing parties will soar all over Europe just because our current liberal politicians don't act when they need to.

I would like to add one small thing and that is that rightwing partie here (FN) has support from Christians, Jews and Muslims. People (no matter what nationality) are fed up with people living here and people comming here to demand and abuse our benefit systems and unwanting to accept the countries values and participante in société.

Those values make it we can live with different moderate believes next to eachother.

You'll see that when the EU ( European countries) will stop handing out free money , the fleed of migrants will dry-up very quickly and most likely the real refugees get à proper chance.

 

[mister dog]

I would like to add one small thing and that is that rightwing partie here (FN) has support from Christians, Jews and Muslims. People (no matter what nationality) are fed up with people living here and people comming here to demand and abuse our benefit systems and unwanting to accept the countries values and participante in société.

Those values make it we can live with different moderate believes next to eachother.

You'll see that when the EU ( European countries) will stop handing out free money , the fleed of migrants will dry-up very quickly and most likely the real refugees get à proper chance.

Problem is most of the extreme right are populists playing on people's fairs. It's the danger of your country turning into a discriminatory police state vs the danger of terrorism.

 

[novcze]

POLISH AGAINST "IMMIGRANTS" ...this is before Paris attacks, real people with real concerns

 

[TenEightyOne]

POLISH AGAINST "IMMIGRANTS" ...this is before Paris attacks, real people with real concerns

In Polish though. Without being able to get much from it (apart from the top comment, DEATH TO THE EU), I'd say that real people do have real concerns, of course they do.

What's more important is how much those concerns are grounded in reality or news-bollocks. Or YouTube opinions.

 

[Barra333]

Since there are a few people here who assume that every refugee is just there to sponge off the government and take joy in the few that break the law, allow me to bring you this: These Syrian refugees became SES volunteers within a month of arriving in Australia

For context, the SES is the State Emergency Service is made up entirely of volunteers who go out and clear fallen trees and do emergency fixes on houses during and after severe weather events.

EDIT: And this

 

[novcze]

In Polish though. Without being able to get much from it (apart from the top comment, DEATH TO THE EU), I'd say that real people do have real concerns, of course they do.

What's more important is how much those concerns are grounded in reality or news-bollocks. Or YouTube opinions.

I see English subtitles, you don't?

 

[TenEightyOne]

I see English subtitles, you don't?

I do, I don't know whether the translation is correctly represented or not. I'm doubly doubtful as you presented as a demonstration that the Poles filmed are "against immigration" despite a goodly number of them saying they're not.

 

[novcze]

I do, I don't know whether the translation is correctly represented or not. I'm doubly doubtful as you presented as a demonstration that the Poles filmed are "against immigration" despite a goodly number of them saying they're not.

From what I understand from Polish, translation is all right. I posted it here because it's good insight (because video have English subtitles). I don't know what your objections are, video is filmed on anti-immigration rally, people there have basically the same opinions as others in V4 countries.

Of course there are people who are positive towards immigrants, usually ones who suck money from the state budget in order to help them, of course they want more immigrants (read money).

 

[novcze]

Hungary sues EU at European Court of Justice over migrant quotas and Slovakia files lawsuit against EU quotas to redistribute migrants, hopefully Poland will join later.

 

[novcze]

Refugees discovered with pictures of 'Isis flags and executions on their phones' say Norwegian police

 

[Johnnypenso]

Since there are a few people here who assume that every refugee is just there to sponge off the government and take joy in the few that break the law, allow me to bring you this: These Syrian refugees became SES volunteers within a month of arriving in Australia

For context, the SES is the State Emergency Service is made up entirely of volunteers who go out and clear fallen trees and do emergency fixes on houses during and after severe weather events.

EDIT: And this

A handful of refugees doing something good =/= many don't end up on welfare just like a handful of refugees becoming terrorists =/= all refugees will be terrorists.

 

[Barra333]

A handful of refugees doing something good =/= many don't end up on welfare just like a handful of refugees becoming terrorists =/= all refugees will be terrorists.

I figured if people are allowed to use the handful of really bad eggs (terrorists) as an argument against all refugees, then putting out a couple of examples from the other end of the spectrum would be OK.

 

[A2K78]

I don't know how anybody could blatantly support open border policies, let alone subsidized mass migration. To such a thing diminishes the role of private property.

 

[BobK]

To such a thing diminishes the role of private property.

How?

 

[JKgo]

...Probably trying to imply "illegal squatters = all migrants" or some such.

 

[A2K78]

How?

I suggest the writings of Hoppe(which are freely available online) but for a primer an excellent speech by Lew Rockwell @ the Mises Institute on the open borders/private property debate

 

[MisterWhiskers]

All this fear mongering against the Syrian refugees is actually sad. These people are escaping a war. Their houses are being bombed, they have no clothes, little to no food... Think about you being in that situation. Of course, some of them are malevolent people, but there are background checks that can be done. This can be a slow process, but better safe than sorry.

People need to stop with this ridiculous nationalist bullcrap. People also need to stop making it seems out like some crusade on Islam and Muslims. I say we should let them in with background checks and let them work and send money back home. They can return if they choose of course after the war is over.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Syrian-born British woman applies for Australian tourist visa and is denied without a reason, but then discovers that a Bahraini-born friend she intended to travel with was asked different questions and approved:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-24/syrian-born-british-woman-denied-entry-to-australia/7053838

This story comes just two days after it was revealed that the government refused entry visas to the family of a man dying of cancer on the grounds that if they just agreed to it, then terrorists might try it.

 

[novcze]

I say we should let them in with background checks and let them work and send money back home.

If you refer to WE as citizens of the USA, then you are right. You should do background checks and then decide if you let them in or not. As for EU, we are already doomed, because instead of doing background checks in the first EU country they arrived, Merkel invited them to Germany without any checks whatsoever (and violated EU laws with her move). Now we have all kinds of people roaming Europe and not just from Syria.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Now we have all kinds of people roaming Europe and not just from Syria.

Yes... but we had that already, they were called Europeans. Do you have some kind of evidence to show that the Europeans are any less dangerous?