Immigration

  • Thread starter KSaiyu
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Yes... but we had that already, they were called Europeans. Do you have some kind of evidence to show that the Europeans are any less dangerous?

As I approach my 7th decade of life, I have noticed many changes and global trends.
Among them are these:

- Acts of great violence are most often perpetrated by young, alienated and poorly socialized males. Almost universally, they lack money, meaningful employment and a stable sexual relationship with a woman.

- Males who are homosexual, autistic or beta generally do not commit these acts.

- To the extent that homosexual, autistic and beta males have been coming closer to the norm in Europe and North America, acts of violence have lessened.

- To the extent that impoverished, alienated and poorly socialized alpha males have been making their way or remain in North American and European societies, acts of great violence have increased.
 
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- To the extent that impoverished, alienated and poorly socialized alpha males have been making their way or remain in North American and European societies, acts of great violence have increased.

yep, and in this condition they easily fall to "radical" side of islam ideology which empowers them to do all kinds of idiocy. And with more refugees the number of alienated people will only rise.
 
That doesn't make any sense... Europeans are less dangerous to a man than immigrants "because Schengen is legal"??

Too much alcohol? I'm talking about completely different thing, you're the one who throw in irrelevant question which I ignored.
Do I understand correctly that your thinking is: "Do not make any background checks because majority are just ordinary people seeking better life?"
 
Too much alcohol? I'm talking about completely different thing, you're the one who throw in irrelevant question which I ignored.
Do I understand correctly that your thinking is: "Do not make any background checks because majority are just ordinary people seeking better life?"
I see. Everyone; Syrians, Arabs, Israelis, Europeans, and pretty much anyone thats legally not an European citizen; still has to pass background check and others to get in, right?
 
Too much alcohol?

I no longer drink so I can't be of much help to you there. If you're saying that you've had too much then it now makes sense, thank you.

Your answer about Schengen makes little sense in the light of you saying

Now we have all kinds of people roaming Europe and not just from Syria.

when you seem to have just argued that external border controls will, for the large part, stop "undesirables" from travelling. That surely means that the majority of "undesirables" are already here in a home-grown sense, right?
 
I see. Everyone; Syrians, Arabs, Israelis, Europeans, and pretty much anyone thats legally not an European citizen; still has to pass background check and others to get in, right?

I'm talking about immigration otherwise different countries have different visa policies.


when you seem to have just argued that external border controls will, for the large part, stop "undesirables" from travelling. That surely means that the majority of "undesirables" are already here in a home-grown sense, right?

What? ... Schengen border control and processing of immigrants in the first EU country they arrive will prevent roaming of immigrants who have no legal right to claim asylum in EU (they are from safe country) or are connected to ISIL in any way. But this discussion is more or less pointless, because they've already got free pass from Merkel.
 
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You think The Daily Mail broke this story? No, they just piggyback off other publications. Why do you think they are so successful at publishing this crap without consequence? It's because they know that they can't verify it themselves.
 
The story was covered quite broadly yesterday, but was not a headline on most sites.

German police were apparently already aware of the presence of large groups of North African immigrants causing trouble in various places, and while there is no evidence to suggest that any of the perpetrators of the Cologne NYE assaults are recent refugees, it does at the very least go some way to prove Angela Merkel right on the failure of multiculturalism in Germany and strengthen the hand of those who believe that Germany's open door policy to refugees is going to come at a heavy cost.

The fact that this has happened in Germany is a heavy blow to Merkel and a slap in the face to advocates of multiculturalism - not to mention decency. Merkel got it bang on when she spoke out against multiculturalism a few weeks ago, stating that while Germany welcomes immigrants, they must make an effort to adopt the culture, language and standards of German society.
 
To make things worse, the Cologne mayor has released a statement which amounts to women having to change their behavior to not to intice this behavior during the upcoming carnaval festivals. Victim-blaming at its worst, absolutely insane. Even if you don't want to enter the whole immigrant/refugee discussion, the only appropriate response here is: we do not tolerate this behavior and will hunt those responsible down by any means. How detached from society have you become as a politicion if this is your suggestion? Really, basically saying women shouldn't go anywhere near a crowd during a festival? Insane.
 
I'm not sure it's been established this incident was anything more than a bunch of drunken young men lusting after nearby attractive girls on New Years eve.
 
I'm not sure it's been established this incident was anything more than a bunch of drunken young men lusting after nearby attractive girls on New Years eve.
Don't forget the first rule of journalism - never let the facts get in the way of a good story. After all, IMMIGRANTS ASSAULT OUR WOMEN sells more papers than DRUNK MEN LUST AFTER PRETTY GIRLS.
 
I was all for multiculturalism until I heard about the gangs of roaming groping rapists.
This is scary. Looks like open boarders have a serious price.

Imagine how quickly I'd be publicly slaughtered should I run around their country groping women and whatnot. We are so soft in Europe.
 
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Listening to BBC radio, I did hear a feminist magazine editor express umbrage over some groping, whilst at the same time complaining of nearby policemen being oblivious of the revelry.
 
To make things worse, the Cologne mayor has released a statement which amounts to women having to change their behavior to not to intice this behavior during the upcoming carnaval festivals. Victim-blaming at its worst, absolutely insane. Even if you don't want to enter the whole immigrant/refugee discussion, the only appropriate response here is: we do not tolerate this behavior and will hunt those responsible down by any means. How detached from society have you become as a politicion if this is your suggestion? Really, basically saying women shouldn't go anywhere near a crowd during a festival? Insane.
Exactly, Stockholm syndrome at its worst...
 
To make things worse, the Cologne mayor has released a statement which amounts to women having to change their behavior to not to intice this behavior during the upcoming carnaval festivals.

Disgusting. Still, that makes me just as bad for telling my teenage daughter not to walk home alone through back-streets. If something happened it would clearly be her fault, at least that's what it amounts to - right?
 
Don't forget the first rule of journalism - never let the facts get in the way of a good story. After all, IMMIGRANTS ASSAULT OUR WOMEN sells more papers than DRUNK MEN LUST AFTER PRETTY GIRLS.
Yesterday you were defending the media for holding the story back to verify the facts, now you're slandering them by insinuating that it might all be made up just to create a titillating headline and sell papers. I wonder which bandwagon you'll be on tomorrow.
To make things worse, the Cologne mayor has released a statement which amounts to women having to change their behavior to not to intice this behavior during the upcoming carnaval festivals. Victim-blaming at its worst, absolutely insane. Even if you don't want to enter the whole immigrant/refugee discussion, the only appropriate response here is: we do not tolerate this behavior and will hunt those responsible down by any means. How detached from society have you become as a politicion if this is your suggestion? Really, basically saying women shouldn't go anywhere near a crowd during a festival? Insane.
I read that in a couple of places but when I saw the video there was no translation. Have you seen one with an English translation attached?
 
Yesterday you were defending the media for holding the story back to verify the facts, now you're slandering them by insinuating that it might all be made up just to create a titillating headline and sell papers. I wonder which bandwagon you'll be on tomorrow.
There is a difference between making stuff up and spinning it to create a sensational, newspaper selling (or clickbait) headline. I am pretty sure that @prisonermonkeys is not trying to imply that nothing happened, just that it may not be as extreme as some of the stories make out.
 
I'm not sure it's been established this incident was anything more than a bunch of drunken young men lusting after nearby attractive girls on New Years eve.
On the contrary, there is zero evidence to suggest it was mere high jinx. It was pre-planned and highly organised, with many individuals reporting some form of sexual assault, ranging from groping to rape. Some women were groped so frequently and roughly that they have bruises all over their bodies. Other reports claim that women were surrounded by gangs and assaulted, having to fight their way free with the assistance of their friends or partners.

Disgusting. Still, that makes me just as bad for telling my teenage daughter not to walk home alone through back-streets. If something happened it would clearly be her fault, at least that's what it amounts to - right?
I agree that the mayor's comments sound pretty bad, but arguably she is correct in principle, just as you are correct to advise your daughter to take a less risky route home. But where I think the mayor has got it wrong is in making it sound like such behaviour is to be expected or accommodated somehow - although I didn't read what she said in full.

It cannot be stressed enough, however, that the blame lies solely with the perpetrators of the violence, and that this type of incident is incredibly serious and demands a wide-ranging response. Far from dismissing it as just a bunch of drunk guys behaving badly, this incident is so far out of the accepted norms of German (and European) society as to cause shock and consternation across the continent. The mayor's comments might be misguided or poorly worded - but the behaviour of these men is what is truly disgusting, and we shouldn't be deflected from that fact.

Way back around the time of my 20th birthday, my girlfriend and her sister narrowly avoided what might have been a horrible incident when they were touring India. They noticed a large group of men were following them along a beach, and several men had approached them or cat-called at them shortly before. Luckily for them, they met a couple of fellow backpackers (complete strangers, but friendly) and they quickly got out of there. Is it wrong to tell young women who go backpacking in India to be alert when visiting certain places, because they are at considerably higher risk of attack in these places than they are normally used to? I don't think it is, even though it is pretty horrible to say so.

This is one of the key issues here - German women are facing a situation where their own home towns - places they are used to - becoming places where they are now at higher risk of assault because of the presence of huge numbers of men who are used to treating women very differently to the way German women are used to being treated. In the face of such increased risk (if that is really the case, of course), it is arguably wise to exercise a bit more caution - but I can't stress enough that it ought not to be the case. Sadly, we're not talking about what ought to be, but what is the case. Just as your daughter ought never to face being attacked in the street, it is a possibility and you are wise to at least address the issue of how best to avoid risk as much as possible while maintaining one's freedom to do what you want to do.
 
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Disgusting. Still, that makes me just as bad for telling my teenage daughter not to walk home alone through back-streets. If something happened it would clearly be her fault, at least that's what it amounts to - right?
I think there's a big difference between a general advice like "don't keep your car unlocked" and a statement that is a direct response to an event and one where she's basically declaring the whole city a no-go area for women during events with a lot of people around, instead of stating the obvious. I guess that back alley would also not be safe for you or any other members of your family, so that's a big difference too.

And boy is this ammunition for right-wing parties all across Europe. This is going to have serious political repercussions in upcoming elections, and not just in Germany.

I read that in a couple of places but when I saw the video there was no translation. Have you seen one with an English translation attached?
I only read the German version, so the only thing I could give you is a Google translate.
 
I was all for multiculturalism until I heard about the gangs of roaming groping rapists
Whatever happened to due process? And how do you know that "the gangs of roaming groping rapists" were exclusively made up of refugees? You jumped to a conclusion and a generalised on at that based on a story you heard in passing.

Yesterday you were defending the media for holding the story back to verify the facts, now you're slandering them by insinuating that it might all be made up just to create a titillating headline and sell papers.
Yeah, the tabloids have never made anything up before. What am I supposed to think when the only source provided in support of the story is from a publication that is not only notorious for exaggeration and creating titillating headlines, but revels in that reputation?

You criticise me for being inconsistent, but you yourself have been equally inconsistent, and worse, changing your position based on whatever it is easiest to criticise me for. Is it really so wrong that I consider a story about the alleged group assaults of women by immigrants to be so serious that it needs to be verified by a reliable source, one that is not tainted by the agenda of a xenophobic demagogue?

Disgusting. Still, that makes me just as bad for telling my teenage daughter not to walk home alone through back-streets. If something happened it would clearly be her fault, at least that's what it amounts to - right?

It's a fine line between common sense and victim-blaming. "Don't walk home late at night through back streets" is pretty sound advice that you would give to anyone, not just your teenage daughter. When you then qualify that with "if you get assaulted, then it's your own stupid fault for being somewhere that you knew was dangerous" it becomes victim-blaming because you transfer responsibility for the assault onto the victim, and deny that the perpetrator did anything wrong.

Unfortunately, the culture of victim-blaming is pretty deeply enmeshed into our institutions. Just the other day, we had a minister who was forced to resign over sexual harassment of a female staffer; within hours of his resignation, someone leaked a photo of the staffer looking quite comfortable in the minister's presence, which was seen as an obvious attempt at discrediting her and restoring his reputation.
 
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