Immigration

  • Thread starter KSaiyu
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That immigrants are the majority commiting (sexual) crimes. Here are some facts from the german crime statistics: non-germans (people with other nationality, not just immigrants) were suspects for 28.7% of all crimes and 22.2% of all sexual crimes -- hardly a majority.
Well for starters i never said immigrants cause a majority of sexual crimes, so why would i need to provide cold hard evidence of that to the council here.

It is however a bit obvious (and that's quite an understatement), that there are major issues when it comes to how a lot of these asylum seekers view and treat women in general. Evident by the many incidents in the last months.

Your obvious intention in posting stories about sexual violence being committed by migrants and refugees is to suggest that rates of sexual violence are higher among migrants and refugees than they are among naturalised citizens, and to use this as "proof" that they should not be allowed into Europe. I want you to post actual proof of what you have been insinuating - solid scientific evidence that rates of sexual violence are higher among migrants and refugees and indisputable proof that this is because of their cultural, religious, and/or ethnic background.

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@Ken, I never brought up not having children, not once did I do that. Typical though, just keep repeating it until it's perceived to be true 👍
 
@Ken, I never brought up not having children, not once did I do that. Typical though, just keep repeating it until it's perceived to be true 👍

I may have missed the original poster of the kid thing, sure. I was sure it was you. Sorry. But you are the one beating the horse, bringing up sterilization in the penal system. Also, typical? I sure hope you're not referring to me. I rarely post in O&CE threads. Very rarely. If you are referring to me, man, just wow. Pulling crap out of thin air.
 
@tarnheld, don't we need per capita type numbers? Of course there are way more Germans than immigrants?

Hmmm, it's all in the data but if it helps your case, there are 0.06% of german rape suspects out of all germans and 0.15% of non-german rape suspects out of all non-germans in Germany. I leave the sensationalization to you, too lazy for that. ;)

It is however a bit obvious (and that's quite an understatement), that there are major issues when it comes to how a lot of these asylum seekers view and treat women in general. Evident by the many incidents in the last months.

In every large group there are criminals and saints. I like to look at the big picture and avoid cherry-picking single stories. It seems that shifting the blame for aggression and violence against women to the immigrants hides the fact that this is still a real problem in our well-developed society and just sending away offending immigrants is no cure for that.
 
In every large group there are criminals and saints. I like to look at the big picture and avoid cherry-picking single stories. It seems that shifting the blame for aggression and violence against women to the immigrants hides the fact that this is still a real problem in our well-developed society and just sending away offending immigrants is no cure for that.
You consider hundreds of women being molested at the same time by Arab immigrants cherry picking? I don't recall such an incident in our well-developed society for a very long time. Examples to try and prove the contrary that were posted here a couple of pages back were rapes committed during the second world war so go figure.

To me it seems there is a general problem of how a lot of these Muslim immigrants perceive both us as westerners and the way women (or gay people for that matter) have liberties here. That's a personal opinion which you are free to disagree with of course.
 
And you accuse me of "behaving like a housewife". A gif is not an argument. In fact, as far as I concerned, a gif is a declaration that "I have no further arguments to make, and so I will post something childish instead of acknowledging that you have a point".
 
And you accuse me of "behaving like a housewife". A gif is not an argument. In fact, as far as I concerned, a gif is a declaration that "I have no further arguments to make, and so I will post something childish instead of acknowledging that you have a point".
Best way to represent my facial expression when reading your assumptions. No you don't have a point.
 
You consider hundreds of women being molested at the same time by Arab immigrants cherry picking? I don't recall such an incident in our well-developed society for a very long time. Examples to try and prove the contrary that were posted here a couple of pages back were rapes committed during the second world war so go figure.

It's cherry picking because you seem to single out these events for making your point but ignore the thousands of rapes happening each year silently and without global news coverage.
 
That immigrants are the majority commiting (sexual) crimes. Here are some facts from the german crime statistics: non-germans (people with other nationality, not just immigrants) were suspects for 28.7% of all crimes and 22.2% of all sexual crimes -- hardly a majority.

Nice to see actual figures rather than anecdotes in this thread for once. However according to this wiki page (which cites 2013 UN stats although I haven't been able to look at them yet) immigrant population is about 12% in Germany. So does this not possibly support the view that rates of sexual violence (and other crimes) have been higher amongst migrants? (Must stress I don't want to pass comment/judgement on that myself, just that evidence for this viewpoint was something that was requested on the previous page.)
 
Best way to represent my facial expression when reading your assumptions.
If you're not posting stories of sexual violence perpetrated by migrants and refugees for the sake of demonstrating that rates of sexual violence are higher among migrants and refugees ... why, exactly are you posting these stories in the first place?
 
It's cherry picking because you seem to single out these events for making your point but ignore the thousands of rapes happening each year silently and without global news coverage.
There is a major difference between the Cologne events and single rape cases as this was a mass assault. It's like saying the focus on the Paris attacks last November is cherry picking too, as thousands of people are shot and killed every year in separate shootings. You can't downplay this trying to compare it that way.

If you're not posting stories of sexual violence perpetrated by migrants and refugees for the sake of demonstrating that rates of sexual violence are higher among migrants and refugees ... why, exactly are you posting these stories in the first place?
Because this is the immigration thread, and it worries me that these things are happening as a side effect of the refugee crisis.
 
Not to mention according to tarnheld, the immigrants are 2.5 times more likely to commit the offence.
Which immigrants?

The table only breaks it down into German and non German, as such without further breakdown it could also be the fault of three blokes from Prague on a drunken weekend.

Oh and its not commit, as that implies guilt, it's suspected. As such you would need to also know a breakdown by convictions in order to make the claim you did as well.
 
Because this is the immigration thread, and it worries me that these things are happening as a side effect of the refugee crisis.
Then where is your evidence that says that sexually-motivated violent attacks are a direct response to the act of seeking asylum?
 
Strange argument. We should stop having babies too then.. after all, in 16 years they'll be packing the juvenile detention centres...
To hone in on this a bit more..... There may not be the same kinds of borders, but we all have areas in our own countries that we know are breeding grounds for criminals. The question not only becomes should we stop them procreating, but also should we stop them moving to different parts of the country if we're all about keeping our select societies "pure"?

I will readily state that I think a man from Syria is more likely to be sexually abusive than your average German (the culture difference is plain to see), but if I take a world view, that man is better off in Germany where he'll hopefully either turn himself around, or get locked up. Both of those things are less likely to happen in Syria I suspect. Really though, procreation should if anything be a more pertinent issue for the societal purist, since it adds another "undesirable" to the population rather than just moving already existing people from one place to another.

I very much think that it is possible to accept refugees from countries with (what I'd call) suspect cultures, without having to bury one's head in the sand and act as if there are no valid generalisations to be made.
 
That sentence doesn't even make sense.
I shouldn't have to explain it, but here we go: mister dog offered the opinion that the increase in sexual violence in Europe is a side effect of the increase in refugees entering the continent. I asked him to provide evidence of this. After all, we have had an increase in refugees entering the country, but no increase in sexual violence. In fact, the three most-recent high-profile cases of sexual violence - Jill Meagher, Stefanie Smith and Masa Vutkovic, all three of whom were raped and murdered - were perpetrated by men who were not refugees. In fact, Jill Meagher was attacked, abducted, raped and murdered by Adrian Bayley, a serial sexual offender. So I dispute mister dog's claim that the increase in sexual violence is a direct result of an increase in migration.
 
I shouldn't have to explain it, but here we go: mister dog offered the opinion that the increase in sexual violence in Europe is a side effect of the increase in refugees entering the continent. I asked him to provide evidence of this. After all, we have had an increase in refugees entering the country, but no increase in sexual violence. In fact, the three most-recent high-profile cases of sexual violence - Jill Meagher, Stefanie Smith and Masa Vutkovic, all three of whom were raped and murdered - were perpetrated by men who were not refugees. In fact, Jill Meagher was attacked, abducted, raped and murdered by Adrian Bayley, a serial sexual offender. So I dispute mister dog's claim that the increase in sexual violence is a direct result of an increase in migration.

While I see your point, did you ever heard of anything remolty close to what happen in Cologne before the huge immigration ? And I'm not talking of war rape which is another subject that have nothing in common with what we're talking here.

I'm not talking about a single individual kidnapping someone then rape her for 15 years, I'm talking about a huge group of men molesting women. I'm talking about around a thousand of arabian/magrebian men molesting or raping 200 womens in the same evening. Because honestly I never heard of anything like that.

While I'm more a socialist in the heart I still find those event really disturbing.
 
While I'm more a socialist in the heart I still find those event really disturbing.
I'm the same, but I find the attitude that all refugees are rapists deplorable. I would not be surprised if the events on Cologne were a co-ordinated psychological attack aimed at fuelling dissent towards refugees and thus inspire more disaffected young men to become radicalised.
 
I'm the same, but I find the attitude that all refugees are rapists deplorable. I would not be surprised if the events on Cologne were a co-ordinated psychological attack aimed at fuelling dissent towards refugees and thus inspire more disaffected young men to become radicalised.

You're right it could be possible, the biggest problem I have is that you can't trust the press first of all, they'll arrange the headline to sell the most.
But from what i could find out on the subject it's very concerning that 20 maybe 30 men coudl do that and that the other thousand didnt try anything to stop it. I mean if I was a war refugee and was seeking asylum in a foreign country I would probably try my best to blend in and stop that kind of stuff from happening.
But then again it's not that simple. Maybe I would have been in europe only because of those guys having an operation to get more young people radicalised. And if you know that those men are part of a terrorist group you wouldnt try anything.
 
it's very concerning that 20 maybe 30 men coudl do that and that the other thousand didnt try anything to stop it
They may not have seen it. A thousand people on a train platform is a tight fit, and sexual predators don't lurch around like zombies. They could easily sneak up behind someone, grope them, and then retreat into the crowd before the victim had a chance to react. The bystanders wouldn't be any the wiser until the victim raised the alarm, and would have no hope of identifying the perpetrators.
 
Fair enough, any immigrant, 2.5 times more likely to be accused. Do they throw accusations around like confetti?
Now that's a real question.

We are certain groups more likely to be accused of crimes? You see I can guarantee that the exact same thing can be said about a whole range of socio-economic groups; now part of that is that minority and impoverished populations (and the two often go together) are more likely to be socially isolated and as such be seen as 'others'. They are also more likely to be driven to crime (of all kinds), and be subjected to and perpetrate more violence.

The links between increased levels of violence and crime and socio-economic status are well known, and as such certainly not limited to immigrants, but is far more a factor of poverty.


While I see your point, did you ever heard of anything remolty close to what happen in Cologne before the huge immigration ? And I'm not talking of war rape which is another subject that have nothing in common with what we're talking here.

I'm not talking about a single individual kidnapping someone then rape her for 15 years, I'm talking about a huge group of men molesting women. I'm talking about around a thousand of arabian/magrebian men molesting or raping 200 womens in the same evening. Because honestly I never heard of anything like that.

While I'm more a socialist in the heart I still find those event really disturbing.

Oh it most certainly happens, its just not widely reported outside of the German media.

Take for example Oktoberfest:

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/rape-culture-germany-cologne-new-years-2016-876
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen...ktoberfest-entbloessung-im-bierzelt-1.1151859

Now its odd that the likes of the Daily Mail (on a side note its interesting to note that the only English language country in Europe also has the most right wing media - which may well be a factor is how Europe is presented to the rest of the world in this regard) only show the positive side of Oktoberfest (and still manage to use it as a chance to have a pop at the evil of immigration).

Does it not strike you as odd that these are reported in very different ways?
 
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