Immigration

[squadops]

This has one meaning;

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

but you are asking for another

 

[Dennisch]

In violation of any number of international treatsies on the treatment of refugees. Won't work.

Make it work. If a few of them can't behave it's for the greater good to send them back. Both refugees and Western society.

Edit.

Plans for sending perps back for lighter sentences are already in the works, at least in Germany.

Sexual assault should be enough to be kicked back.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Make it work.

But then you run into a quandary where the political right expect refugees to be fully "adapted" (read: forcibly assimilated) as soon as they arrive, and ideally before they even show up. All you're going to do is wind up with a raft of deportations for minor offences, pushing people towards radicalisation.

There is a recognition that refugees are undergoing a significant change in their lives, forced to abandon their homelands and make the journey to Europe to seek asylum. But on the other hand, there is no recognition of society's need to change to accomodate them; rather, there is the expectation that everything will somehow remain the same. Meanwhile, there is next to no support offered to refugees to adapt. It's a system that's designed to fail - the only winners are the people who oppose refugees arriving in the first place because the refugees live up to their low expectations.

Some of our most successful resettlement programmes are the ones that allow refugees to integrate into every level of society. For example, there is a large community of Burmese refugees in the Gippsland region of Victoria; prior to resettlement, the towns were shrinking and the economy stagnating, but with the influx of refugees, the towns were able to start growing again and the local industry - fruit picking and packaging - went through a boom period. Likewise, there is a large Sudanese population in the New England and Northern Tablelands regions of New South Wales, working in cattle farming. These programmes work because the towns are as dependent on the refugees as the refugees are on the towns, and the refugees learn skills that they can take back to their homelands when they decide to go back.

 

[squadops]

But then you run into a quandary where the political right expect refugees to be fully "adapted" (read: forcibly assimilated) as soon as they arrive, and ideally before they even show up.

Right, because the political left expects to be raped.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Right, because the political left expects to be raped.

Seriously?

 

[Dennisch]

But then you run into a quandary where the political right expect refugees to be fully "adapted" (read: forcibly assimilated) as soon as they arrive, and ideally before they even show up. All you're going to do is wind up with a raft of deportations for minor offences, pushing people towards radicalisation.

There is a difference between behaving yourself and being fully adapted.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Seriously?

Which is why I'm not going to dignify it with a response, except to ignore him from now. As far as I am concerned, nothing that he says has any redeeming value.

There is a difference between behaving yourself and being fully adapted.

Not to the political right. These are the same people who seem to think that refugees can simply abandon their cultural identity and adopt that of the host nation without a second thought and where any hesitant is take to be disloyalty despite the way most refugees actually want to return home at some point in the future.

 

[Dennisch]

Not to the political right. These are the same people who seem to think that refugees can simply abandon their cultural identity and adopt that of the host nation without a second thought and where any hesitant is take to be disloyalty despite the way most refugees actually want to return home at some point in the future.

Well, that isn't really a problem in Western Europe. As the political right usually has to share their reigning position with left or centered parties.

Only those without a decent working brain think that people can change their behaviour overnight. But still there is a major difference in coming from a different culture and just act like a semi rapist. If that was the culture they're coming from not a single woman in Europe would be safe anymore. But it's only a portion of refugees/immigrants who behave like that. And no one cares if that portion is sent back. Not normal behaving refugees, or Europeans.

It gives us better means to help those who can behavr and do want help.

 

[mister dog]

- Majority of these 'refugees' are economical fortune seekers not even from Syrian or Iraq (unverified Frontex figures put them at 60%), and that's only the official figures.
- Among these 40% coming from Iraq or Syria, how many fake passports? No good way to verify this and the fake passport trade is blooming business in Turkey.
- Majority of them are young single men, doubtful why they don't take up arms and fight for their countries.
- Major cultural differences; practically no women or gay rights in their countries. Atheist are labelled as 'unbelievers'. IMO they don't know how to deal with seeing women walking on the streets that are not covered up, combine this with a lack of respect for their hosts and you get Cologne like situations.
- Economic stress on our countries, dealing with an influx like this costs a ton of money.
- Refugee stream could be used and has been used by ISIS to smuggle in fighters to commit attacks on us.

I'd say there's a pretty good case for Europe being a lot stricter for it's own protection, and they should have been a lot stricter last year to begin with.

 

[TenEightyOne]

But still there is a major difference in coming from a different culture and just act like a semi rapist ... But it's only a portion of refugees/immigrants who behave like that. And no one cares if that portion is sent back. Not normal behaving refugees, or Europeans.

It gives us better means to help those who can behave and do want help.

I agree with that. The problem in finding a sensible solution right now is that there's a fringe element who tar all refugees with the same brush and display, as @prisonermonkeys said, all the same character traits that they despise in the compartmentalised image they have of such people.

- Majority of these 'refugees' are economical fortune seekers not even from Syrian or Iraq (unverified Frontex figures put them at 60%), and that's only the official figures.

We need a sensible structure to split purely economic migrants from those in genuine need of aid and/or asylum. T'was ever thus.

- Among these 40% coming from Iraq or Syria, how many fake passports? No good way to verify this and the fake passport trade is blooming business in Turkey.

I don't know, how many?

- Majority of them are young single men, doubtful why they don't take up arms and fight for their countries.

Yeah, bunch of pussy-cats. Rather than try to find a safe life they should get out there like Call of Duty, right? See point one for economic exceptions.

- Major cultural differences; practically no women or gay rights in their countries. Atheist are labelled as 'unbelievers'. IMO they don't know how to deal with seeing women walking on the streets that are not covered up, combine this with a lack of respect for their hosts and you get Cologne like situations.

Athiests are, rightly, unbelievers from a theological stance. If that cultural difference upsets you so much then advocate worldwide change, it's the future.

- Economic stress on our countries, dealing with an influx like this costs a ton of money.

Really? More customers and more taxpayers... your claim doesn't stack up outside short-term thinking.

- Refugee stream could be used and has been used by ISIS to smuggle in fighters to commit attacks on us.

In some cases (fewer than 10?), yes. The proportion of attackers who were radicalised after migration or who were "home grown" vastly vastly exceeds that inefficient-and-unpredictable type of cell management.

I'd say there's a pretty good case for Europe being a lot stricter for it's own protection, and they should have been a lot stricter last year to begin with.

Of course, but I think you're playing the wrong balls, so to speak.

 

[mister dog]

I agree with that. The problem in finding a sensible solution right now is that there's a fringe element who tar all refugees with the same brush and display, as @prisonermonkeys said, all the same character traits that they despise in the compartmentalised image they have of such people.

There's also a fringe element on the opposite side of the political spectrum, unwilling to see reality as it is and under the illusion that all these people are good willed, poor refugees coming from war torn countries.

As always the truth lays somewhere in the middle.

 

[Dennisch]

I agree with that. The problem in finding a sensible solution right now is that there's a fringe element who tar all refugees with the same brush and display, as @prisonermonkeys said, all the same character traits that they despise in the compartmentalised image they have of such people.

The sensible solution is helping those who need and deserve, kick out those who try to ruin that helping experience for others. There comes a time when enough is enough and trying to rape a woman is enough.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Majority of these 'refugees' are economical fortune seekers not even from Syrian or Iraq (unverified Frontex figures put them at 60%), and that's only the official figures.

Do you have a source for that?

Majority of them are young single men, doubtful why they don't take up arms and fight for their countries.

Because they don't want to fight or don't know how to.

Major cultural differences

So they're just automatically incompatible, then? Sure, we recognise women's rights and are beginning to recognise the rights of people with diverse sexualities, but it wasn't that long ago that we didn't recognise them.

Refugee stream could be used and has been used by ISIS to smuggle in fighters to commit attacks on us.

So your solution is to close Europe off for good and just let the refugees figure out what to do on their own?

Among these 40% coming from Iraq or Syria, how many fake passports?

You're assuming that because they're getting out of Iraq and Syria, they're obviously doing this illegally, and that this somehow invalidates the way they're fleeing from war and persecution.

Economic stress on our countries, dealing with an influx like this costs a ton of money.

So does bombing Iraq and Syria.

 

[FoRiZon]

@Dennisch Just wondering, why sending back to warzone is better than just arrest him on site?

 

[Carbonox]

They're not, it's against the law.

The illegality of said actions doesn't seem to bother them too much.

What a strangely selective wondering... there aren't any communities that would do this. You're confusing communities with bad people, I think.

Really, no such thing as confusion here. If anything, communities like this, where a status quo is so harshly enforced that reporting the wrong person to the cops - even for perfectly justified reactions - gets you shunned and threatened, are a breeding ground for horrible people. This community just blatantly showed with its actions that it's nothing more than an angry circlejerk that continues to promote broken values that no longer belong to modernized countries.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The illegality of said actions doesn't seem to bother them too much.

Agreed, but then that's a generally-true hallmark of the majority of criminals. Your implication was that such actions were allowed communally. They're not.

 

[Dennisch]

@Dennisch Just wondering, why sending back to warzone is better than just arrest him on site?

I already mentioned that.

The sensible solution is helping those who need and deserve, kick out those who try to ruin that helping experience for others. There comes a time when enough is enough and trying to rape a woman is enough.

 

[FoRiZon]

I already mentioned that.

Well, thats okay i guess. Though i have to be honest force sending them back wouldnt be the most effective solution looking at the current condition. But i agree that one's/group's misconduct can ruin what they represents as a whole.

 

[Dennisch]

Well, thats okay i guess. Though i have to be honest force sending them back wouldnt be the most effective solution looking at the current condition. But i agree that one's/group's misconduct can ruin what they represents as a whole.

It's a necessary evil. If you want to help people and keep public opinion on the positive side, you need to throw away the bad apples.

And again, I don't think there's anyone who would shed a tear over a criminal being sent back.

 

[squadops]

Seriously?

Yes, why should the political left get a free pass?

Which is why I'm not going to dignify it with a response, except to ignore him from now. As far as I am concerned, nothing that he says has any redeeming value.

One can only hope, then again, aren't you supposed to be an english professor? lol

 

[Carbonox]

Which is why I'm not going to dignify it with a response, except to ignore him from now. As far as I am concerned, nothing that he says has any redeeming value.

Just to let you know, comments like this don't really qualify as "ignoring".

 

[TenEightyOne]

Just to let you know, comments like this don't really qualify as "ignoring".

It's down to the definition of the word... maybe you have it wrong? He said "from now" and wasn't replying to the comment to which we were referring. You were right on everything else in your post though.

Yes, why should the political left get a free pass?

What are you talking about? A free pass for what?

 

[squadops]

Go back and read the accusation, or don't. Expecting people to follow the law is not something unique to the right wing.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Go back and read the accusation, or don't. Expecting people to follow the law is not something unique to the right wing.

Your accusation, if I read correctly, was "The political left expect to be raped". I'm struggling to follow what you're trying to get at - especially given the above comment.

 

[squadops]

This is the accusation.

But then you run into a quandary where the political right expect refugees to be fully "adapted" (read: forcibly assimilated) as soon as they arrive, and ideally before they even show up. All you're going to do is wind up with a raft of deportations for minor offences, pushing people towards radicalisation.

So not being fully adapted means we should expect and accept rape.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

So not being fully adapted means we should expect and accept rape.

Only if you look at it in the context of Cologne, which is a) a very narrow context, b) not at all what I said, and c) exactly what I expected that you would do. At no point did I say rape or sexual violence should be in any way normalised. In fact, if you read the post that you actually quoted, my exact words were "minor offences". This whole idea of the left believing that rape is to be expected and accepted is a complete fabrication on your part.

 

[squadops]

So what is your answer then?

 

[mister dog]

10 year old boy raped by refugee in public pool Vienna, refugee states it was a 'sexual emergency':

http://www.news.com.au/world/europe...a/news-story/69abed188e157e2f425d8c204fa50f17

Only took them 2 months to break the news, as the incident dates from December 2nd...

 

[novcze]

...

Hey Carbonox, I didn't know that Finnish women are trained Jedi knights



... I will stick with my pepper spray as it's effective against all kinds of animals and we don't need to have licence for it.

 

[Carbonox]

I'm surprised the guideline wasn't to chant "Rapist, no raping!".