Immigration

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So we actually believe that native Swedes, people from "the world's goodest country" (https://www.thelocal.se/20160602/sweden-now-the-goodest-country-on-earth) are responsible for the rise in rape and violent crime? That's the conclusion we're coming to?

You seem to have listed some "worstest" countries in your head and can therefore only believe that they could be responsible... despite the timeline of the figures rise not matching any such assertion. Yes, people from Sweden murder each other, rape each other and park illegally. Cuz human.

Some reasons for the rise in such figures have been quoted for you over and over and over again. I'm not sure why you might fail to take those in or consider their effect on the final tables.
 
I never said that!

The "goodest" monika comes from an article that is reporting on the Swedes ranking and the rape phenomena reasoning has been quoted many times over, but still fails to account for certain trends. Plus we still don't have an explanation for violent crime
 
I never said that!

The "goodest" monika comes from an article that is reporting on the Swedes ranking and the rape phenomena reasoning has been quoted many times over, but still fails to account for certain trends. Plus we still don't have an explanation for violent crime
No it doesn't fail to account for it, you don't like the explanation as it doesn't fit your retoric, but that's not the same thing at all.
 
Yeah I suppose you're right.

Meanwhile, those ethnic Swedes are at it again with a car bomb this time:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/03/10/suspected-car-bomb-explodes-swedish-capital-stockholm/

One witness told Swedish paper Expressen that such extreme events have become so commonplace in the once peaceful nation they were not shocked.

“We heard something that sounded like an explosion. It happens so much these days, so you do not really care… apart from the sound, it passed unnoticed,” they said.

And a man went on an axe rampage in Dusseldorf.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/03/10/man-attacked-machete-dusseldorf-hours-axe-attack/

"Fatmir H has errr...nothing to do with the religion of you-know-who and errrr...is a mentally ill individual

In other news, this is how you spin a headline at the BBC!

bbc.jpg


http://ijr.com/2017/03/819742-bbc-w...after-reports-of-a-heinous-crime-not-so-much/
 
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Yeah I suppose you're right.

Meanwhile, those ethnic Swedes are at it again with a car bomb this time:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/03/10/suspected-car-bomb-explodes-swedish-capital-stockholm/
So I assume from your sarcastic tone that you are seeming to claim that this kind of thing doesn't happen with etnic Swedes and is a modern, immigrant lead situation.

So while cooking dinner I did a big of basic research, this should of course have been an almost impossible task, given your assertions.

Imagine my horror to find that not only is it not new, but some of the biggest culprits seem to be ethnic Swedes!

Now I dismissed the Black Metal trend across Scandinavia (which includes Sweden) for church burning, murder, suicide and organised violence as far too minor.

I moved instead to looking at organised crime. Now while ethnic organised criminal gangs most certainly do exists (and I've never claimed otherwise) they are certainly not the instigators of the trend, nor are the close to being the largest (quite minor players currently) or the most violent.

Sweden's biggest problem appears to actually be an import from the US, with criminal biker gangs at the forefront it. Killings, drug dealing, extortion, armed robbery and the like were just the start. Rivalry's lead to a full scale war between the Bandidos and Hell's Angels (and affiliated gangs) right across the Nordic region (not the first one, that was in the '80s and lasted 2 and a half years). The result of the second war lasted from 1993 to 1997 and included shootings, ,car bombings, grenade attacks and the use of anti-tank missiles (stolen from the Swedish army).

While the war ended in '97 both gangs still exist and are still active in Sweden, and are currently involved in conflicts with some of the newer arrivals.

We also should give a shout out to 'The Brotherhood', who started as an ethnic Swedish prison gang, who during one riot took over and burned down a significant part of a prison. They soon moved to operating outside prisons and are currently the largest criminal gang in Sweden, responsible for a wide range of violent criminal activity.

As such to infer that violent criminal activity in Sweden, including the use of military weaponry is something brought in by the recent wave of immigrants is to be either massively biased or unwilling to actually carry out any independent research and simply believe the echo-chamber of bias that are the source of such claims.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Nordic_Biker_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brödraskapet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_crime_in_Sweden


And a man went on an axe rampage in Dusseldorf.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/03/10/man-attacked-machete-dusseldorf-hours-axe-attack/

"Fatmir H has errr...nothing to do with the religion of you-know-who and errrr...is a mentally ill individual
So a story that firstly conflates two attacks that have no proven link with you seeming to suggest that Muslims can't be subject to mental illness?

Odd to say the least, but then given the nature of the source I expect nothing less.

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/features/breitbart/breitbart-report-2017-03.pdf

Now what do we find when we look beyond the echo chamber for information

"
The suspect in the attack was identified in the German news outlet Spiegel Online as 36-year-old Fatmir H. On Friday, police found a doctor’s diagnosis inside the suspect’s apartment, some 20 miles away in the city of Wuppertal, as well as medication indicating that he was paranoid schizophrenic, according to Dietmar Kneib of the North Rhine-Westphalia state criminal police."
Source https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...6557e8-0513-11e7-9d14-9724d48f5666_story.html

Odd then that this information is in the public domain, and yet Breitbart have not updated the piece. It's almost as if it doesn't fit a predefined narrative they want and as such doesn't get included.


You seriously need that explaining to you?

OK.

The first story references Muslims because it involves a country that has, of late, been in the news quite a bit for putting in place a travel ban from majority Muslim countries and also stopped Muslims from other states travelling. Now if you have evidence that large numbers of people of other faiths have had similar issues or that majority Christian (or other faith) have been subject to a travel ban you would have a point. Do you have such evidence to demonstrate that the mention of the subjects faith was not relevant to the story?

The second story regards suspected child abuse, now I would go further and say that mentioning that he is even Indian is un-needed. Well that is unless you are able to show that being Indian or Muslim is a causal factor in being a potential child abuser?

What you and your source seem to be doing is conflating a persons religion with a crime, as such I would expect you to be able to support such a claim with some very, very robust data from an impartial source.
 
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So I assume from your sarcastic tone that you are seeming to claim that this kind of thing doesn't happen with etnic Swedes and is a modern, immigrant lead situation.

So while cooking dinner I did a big of basic research, this should of course have been an almost impossible task, given your assertions.

Imagine my horror to find that not only is it not new, but some of the biggest culprits seem to be ethnic Swedes!

Now I dismissed the Black Metal trend across Scandinavia (which includes Sweden) for church burning, murder, suicide and organised violence as far too minor.

I moved instead to looking at organised crime. Now while ethnic organised criminal gangs most certainly do exists (and I've never claimed otherwise) they are certainly not the instigators of the trend, nor are the close to being the largest (quite minor players currently) or the most violent.

Sweden's biggest problem appears to actually be an import from the US, with criminal biker gangs at the forefront it. Killings, drug dealing, extortion, armed robbery and the like were just the start. Rivalry's lead to a full scale war between the Bandidos and Hell's Angels (and affiliated gangs) right across the Nordic region (not the first one, that was in the '80s and lasted 2 and a half years). The result of the second war lasted from 1993 to 1997 and included shootings, ,car bombings, grenade attacks and the use of anti-tank missiles (stolen from the Swedish army).

While the war ended in '97 both gangs still exist and are still active in Sweden, and are currently involved in conflicts with some of the newer arrivals.

We also should give a shout out to 'The Brotherhood', who started as an ethnic Swedish prison gang, who during one riot took over and burned down a significant part of a prison. They soon moved to operating outside prisons and are currently the largest criminal gang in Sweden, responsible for a wide range of violent criminal activity.

As such to infer that violent criminal activity in Sweden, including the use of military weaponry is something brought in by the recent wave of immigrants is to be either massively biased or unwilling to actually carry out any independent research and simply believe the echo-chamber of bias that are the source of such claims.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Nordic_Biker_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brödraskapet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_crime_in_Sweden



So a story that firstly conflates two attacks that have no proven link with you seeming to suggest that Muslims can't be subject to mental illness?

Odd to say the least, but then given the nature of the source I expect nothing less.

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/features/breitbart/breitbart-report-2017-03.pdf



You seriously need that explaining to you?

OK.

The first story references Muslims because it involves a country that has, of late, been in the news quite a bit for putting in place a travel ban from majority Muslim countries and also stopped Muslims from other states travelling. Now if you have evidence that large numbers of people of other faiths have had similar issues or that majority Christian (or other faith) have been subject to a travel ban you would have a point. Do you have such evidence to demonstrate that the mention of the subjects faith was not relevant to the story?

The second story regards suspected child abuse, now I would go further and say that mentioning that he is even Indian is un-needed. Well that is unless you are able to show that being Indian or Muslim is a causal factor in being a potential child abuser?

What you and your source seem to be doing is conflating a persons religion with a crime, as such I would expect you to be able to support such a claim with some very, very robust data from an impartial source.

Geez. Can't imagine that dinner's going to be too appetizing after all that. :ill:
 
These "immigrants" in Europe are causing crime. That is why we do not want them here in the United States.

I mostly agree with Trump that they should be blocked. I also do not agree with that Hawaii judge who ruled his ban unconstitutional. The courts are essentially creating a 'right to immigrate' by doing this.

It is and always has been at the discretion of the executive branch to allow or deny people from entering the country.

I also find it ironic that all the people saying they should be allowed in are refusing to live with and pay for them.
 
These "immigrants" in Europe are causing crime. That is why we do not want them here in the United States.
What all of them?

Going to need a citation for that one.

I mostly agree with Trump that they should be blocked. I also do not agree with that Hawaii judge who ruled his ban unconstitutional. The courts are essentially creating a 'right to immigrate' by doing this.
Nope.

It is and always has been at the discretion of the executive branch to allow or deny people from entering the country.
Citation please.

I also find it ironic that all the people saying they should be allowed in are refusing to live with and pay for them.
What all of them?

Going to need a citation for that one.
 
What all of them?

Going to need a citation for that one.


Nope.


Citation please.


What all of them?

Going to need a citation for that one.

I mean read the news headlines. Countless problems not only in Sweden, but Germany and France.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017...-on-trumps-side-with-his-immigration-ban.html

Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution gives Congress the power to regulate immigration. In 1952, Congress passed a law empowering the president to deny entry into the U.S. to “any class of aliens” considered to be “detrimental to the interests of the United States.” In other words, a threat to America and in the interests of national security.

So Trump's "travel ban" is 100% legal, regardless of what the 9th Circuit Court has to say.
 
I mean read the news headlines. Countless problems not only in Sweden, but Germany and France.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017...-on-trumps-side-with-his-immigration-ban.html
You might want to actually try a slightly less biased source that Fox News.

The same source that attempted to say that the second largest city in the UK was off limits to non-Muslims.

They have been known to be wrong on quite a few things (Ok a lot of things), that's aside from the fact that article doesn't even cover Europe and immigrant crime levels.

How about some actually crime rate stats that have been corrected for socio-economic factors and compared to indigenous crime levels.

So Trump's "travel ban" is 100% legal, regardless of what the 9th Circuit Court has to say.
So how many terrorist attacks have been carried out by people traveling from those countries (to justify them being a threat to America and an issue of National Security)?
 
...:odd:

These "immigrants" in Europe are causing crime. That is why we do not want them here in the United States.

You know, I find this statement kinda ironic, given that your avatar pic is of a pair of musicians who are technically speaking, immigrants themselves.... So I guess you don't want them in the States, then. But no problem rocking out to their tunes, eh. :lol:

Well, at least you put quotation marks on the word immigrants.
 
...:odd:



You know, I find this statement kinda ironic, given that your avatar pic is of a pair of musicians who are technically speaking, immigrants themselves.... So I guess you don't want them in the States, then. But no problem rocking out to their tunes, eh. :lol:

Well, at least you put quotation marks on the word immigrants.

Hey when my great grandparents immigrated to the United States, they would not have been allowed in if they were causing problems back home. And they came here, assimilated, got jobs and made something out of their lives. As for Daft Punk, love their music. I like a lot of other artists' music too. That doesn't mean I have to agree with their political positions. And I really don't know if they are immigrants in France or not. I would have zero problem with them immigrating into the US as long as they had someone who would sponsor them, they had a way to make an income, and they were not causing trouble back home.
 
Hey when my great grandparents immigrated to the United States, they would not have been allowed in if they were causing problems back home. And they came here, assimilated, got jobs and made something out of their lives. As for Daft Punk, love their music. I like a lot of other artists' music too. That doesn't mean I have to agree with their political positions. And I really don't know if they are immigrants in France or not. I would have zero problem with them immigrating into the US as long as they had someone who would sponsor them, they had a way to make an income, and they were not causing trouble back home.

...Hey, didn't say otherwise.

It's just that, you made a yuuuge sweeping statement that seemed like you were speaking for everyone. And that tickled my funny bone when combined with your avatar pic, is all. So, just to clarify, rapey, explodey immigrants = bad, but hard working, money-making immigrants = good, right?

Now, if you were to bar every single immigrants wanting to enter the States, sponsored or not, how would the good guys come over and do just that? A big quandary, that.

Unless, you were only referring to Daft Punk, then well. :odd: That'd be just awkward, really.
 
I never said that!

The "goodest" monika comes from an article that is reporting on the Swedes ranking and the rape phenomena reasoning has been quoted many times over, but still fails to account for certain trends. Plus we still don't have an explanation for violent crime
Canada has some of the highest kidnapping rates in the world. Is it because Canada is secretly some violent cesspool where people are abducted off the streets? After all, 50% of people in Toronto are born outside the city and Canada's major cities have huge immigrant populations. It must be something to do with that, after all facts are facts and if the rate of kidnapping in Canada is higher than Bangladesh who am I to argue with facts?

Or maybe it's because Canada takes it a lot more seriously than many places in the world. Or maybe because Canadian law includes custody disputes in the stats while other countries don't. Or because Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal are all a few hours from each other and prostitution across provincial borders is included in our human trafficking stats.

Hint: the application to Sweden is they have higher reporting rates and count each instance of rape as a separate crime and not as one charge, while in the rest of the world that isn't the case.
 
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Canada has some of the highest kidnapping rates in the world. Is it because Canada is secretly some violent cesspool where people are abducted off the streets?
Goddammit Wade.
 
I think a wall would do nothing. People will cross the border illegally but tunneling under it, or going over it. Better way would be allowing ICE, BP and INS to do their jobs. And ending "sanctuary city" laws that protect law breakers. If you can't follow the legal process to citizenship, you should get deported.
 

So 0.4% of rapes, according to your links? What does that have to do with immigration if 99.6% of rape offenders in Sweden are Swedish-born?

That 0.4% could be even less, of course, the assessment of "foreign origin" was down to "foreign-sounding names" (your source again) so there's no way of knowing if the artificial dataset includes Swedish-born Swedish nationals of Swedish parents. That's inconvenient and returns to the "what does this have to do with immigration?" question.

Wrong thread?
 
So 0.4% of rapes, according to your links? What does that have to do with immigration if 99.6% of rape offenders in Sweden are Swedish-born?

That 0.4% could be even less, of course, the assessment of "foreign origin" was down to "foreign-sounding names" (your source again) so there's no way of knowing if the artificial dataset includes Swedish-born Swedish nationals of Swedish parents. That's inconvenient and returns to the "what does this have to do with immigration?" question.

Wrong thread?

Read again. The first link says 9/10 = 90%.

I think the underlying theme we're seeing here is that the immigrants are causing crime.
 
Read again. The first link says 9/10 = 90%.

Presumably you're trolling or you didn't try reading the articles instead of believing the headline?

Just over 30 cases. 30. Out of nearly 7,000.

I think the underlying theme we're seeing here is that the immigrants are causing crime.

Which is clearly not correct. According to those figures people who immigrate to Sweden cause less crime than any other people in the whole world. Do keep up.
 
What does that have to do with immigration if 99.6% of rape offenders in Sweden are Swedish-born?
Nothing, but when you're trying to prove that Muslims Are Bad and that Immigration Has Failed, you're prone to confirmation bias.

DLR_Mysterion is judging the majority based on the actions of the few. With that in mind, we could say that all Christians are narrow-minded hypocritical bigots who only love their neighbours if their neighbours are just like them. I'm basing that assessment purely on his behaviour - using the actions of the few to judge the majority. I wonder how long it will be before he leaps to the defence of Christians?
 
Gang rapes do get massively disproportional attention. As absolutley awful as they are, theyr'e still a tiny minority of all rapes.

The fact that immigrants are so hugely over represented in them should not be ignored though. But it doesn't say much about the whole situation.
 
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