Improved Engine Sound

[No Sweat]

You know what always ticked me off about the GT series? The fact that PD has AWESOME engine sounds for the racecars in the opening cinematics, but nothing in the actual game sounds like them.

Also, there are a few American cars that do sound right:
2005 Mustang GT
1970 Dodge Charger 440 (Stock exhaust only, rest sound like it has 2 spark plugs removed)
Both of the classic Shelbys
The newer Corvette Z06
Plymouth Roadrunner
Dodge Superbee

I probably missed a few, but you get the idea: they didn't slack on them all folks, don't lose faith in GT yet!

 

[Monteclaro]

On top of completley awsum engine sounds they should also have really good enviromental sounds. Like wind rustling in the trees, birds, the crowd, the road etc. It would be awsum if there was a race course near the beach you could hear seagulls and the waves.

 

[Omnis]

I just hope that polyphony actually pays better attention to engine dynamics. I want to hear a roar that makes my ears light up, not just a frequency increase.

 

[Dimitrov]

I just hope that polyphony actually pays better attention to engine dynamics. I want to hear a roar that makes my ears light up, not just a frequency increase.

Probably, it will be the way that they`ll do.

Nowadays, engine sounds is completely linear. Sound frequency varies directly with rpm. Is is a single sound stream. The same sound with the same characteristics is heard on the entire rotation scope. Pitch alters and that`s it.

Perhaps they will use the same method, but run 5 or 6 sound tracks per engine. They will be controlled by the same pitch schema, but just one or two will be audible at the same time.

[/technical]

Example: we have tracks 0,1,2,3,4,5. Let's represent them by this notation: (note: pseudo C++ will b used)

// 6 engine sounds: Using 0 for the Bassy sound and 4 for the trebly one. 
// enginesound number 5 will be some defect or something bad with engine.
 
TEngineSound *_Enginesound[6];
 
// Then, we`ll add distribution funcions
// Volume = function(rpm)
// Where  f(rpm) rpm*rpm * 2*rpm + 3; //this is just a figurative example
// So, we have..
 
While (_engineOn)
{
  _EngineSound[0]->Volume = F0(thiscar->rpm);
  _EngineSound[1]->Volume = F1(thiscar->rpm);
  _EngineSound[2]->Volume = F2(thiscar->rpm);
  _EngineSound[3]->Volume = F3(thiscar->rpm);
  _EngineSound[4]->Volume = F4(thiscar->rpm);
  
  if (_wrecked)
 _EngineSound[5]->Volume = _MAX_;
 
}

So, it is very very very easy and possible to merge several sounds into one. PD didnot made that the extreme way because of hardware limitations.

 

[HKS_T51KAI]

Ever noticed that turbo cars have all the same induction noise, BOV as well as sounding the same. Although i might sound like a fool, talking bout it, but they should learn somethin about NFS series in terms of how a real turbo sounds like, but for racing cars, eg. LeMans, Super GT and others, what i didnt like in GT4, was the fact that you could hear the turbo, you wouldnt hear this, as the sound of the engine overpowers this. But for Rally cars, especially in WRC cars, they have a Electronic BOV, keeping boost constant, but can open when ever, learnt watching WRC shows.
I think that turbo sounds should be part of the engine sound, not a sepret file, like GT4.

 

[SimRaceDriver]

...

Also, there are a few American cars that do sound right...

The newer Corvette Z06

....

Are you referring to the 01' Z06 in GT4? If so, you may want to go test drive a Z06, as I have....because the ingame sound is NOT EVEN CLOSE to representing what comes from the exhaust on a 01' Z06 IRL...

`

 

[harrytuttle]

i don't know if anyone else has noticed this but, if you listen really carefully you can hear an echo, so i take it that the engine sounds were recorded in some sort of warehouse. I think they can do better.

If you're driving through a tunnel, that should be correct. Otherwise, I would check your receiver's surround settings, or the general acoustics of the room. With a properly set up room, there's no extraneous echo during normal driving/racing. In the "behind the scenes" video, they recorded quite a few sounds outside on the tarmac.

You can test this by playing something that's generally quiet, but has some sudden, loud sounds.

 

[ppith]

I've thought about this while daydreaming. I think the ultimate sound option that Polyphony could give us is the option to either roll down the windows or roll up the windows while driving and change the audio to coincide both with the engine noise and wind noise at speed. Think about what some people do when they go under a bridge or tunnel: roll down the windows and go wide open throttle! For a convertible car, it'd be nice to have the option to put the top up/down before the race and only be able to change by pulling over, slowing down, or going into pits.

In my friend's supercharged Z06, it sounds deep and throaty with the windows rolled up. But with the windows rolled down, it's in a whole other world with the combined sound of the BOV, induction, engine, and exhaust.

 

[RacingFreak2k3]

I've thought about this while daydreaming. I think the ultimate sound option that Polyphony could give us is the option to either roll down the windows or roll up the windows while driving and change the audio to coincide both with the engine noise and wind noise at speed. Think about what some people do when they go under a bridge or tunnel: roll down the windows and go wide open throttle! For a convertible car, it'd be nice to have the option to put the top up/down before the race and only be able to change by pulling over, slowing down, or going into pits.

In my friend's supercharged Z06, it sounds deep and throaty with the windows rolled up. But with the windows rolled down, it's in a whole other world with the combined sound of the BOV, induction, engine, and exhaust.

Yeah that would be an amazing feat....but I would be happy enough if they could get the majority of the cars sounds correct. Don't get me wrong, some of them were already as mentioned above.......but a 1970 Chevelle does NOT sound like it does in GT4...i also think the turbos and superchargers need to be a little bit louder in GT5 as well

 

[shabba]

What also would need to change is the interior noise once you do weight reduction or other racing mods. I don't know if PD considered it, but the first thing you do is remove dead weight... such as noise reduction insulation. Hence racing cars are much louder in the cabin than road cars. I have driven a 350cui Chevy V8 powered drag car, and you needed earplugs in the cabin it was that loud.

 

[JTSnooks]

To me, the main problem with engine noise in GT4 is that the cars always sound like they're at half-throttle. The problem is that they record the engine noises at different RPMs, and maybe even a full-throttle run, but this is in neutral with no load on the engine. An engine's exhaust note will completely change when there is a load on the engine as opposed to when it's spinning free. To truly record engine sounds, PD would need to put the cars on a roller dyno and record them on a run from near-idle to redline. This would be extremely time-consuming, as it can take 15 minutes just to set a RWD car up on a dyno, and the more power the longer it takes. Not to mention trying to get the owner's permission, because dyno runs aren't very nice to cars.

Another major problem that would be even more difficult to simulate are modifying the engine/exhaust. Currently they try to guess at what it would sound like and digitally modify the sound to get there, but we all know that's not at all lifelike, otherwise there'd be no point in having 20 different muffler/catback system suppliers for every model of car in real life. Depending on the engine's stock exhaust system, it will respond totally differently to an open exhaust than another engine. For instance, an economy car's exhaust is tuned to be as quiet and smooth as possible. That's why you only hear a "whoosh" when one passes by at full throttle (well, that and the fact that there's no power under the hood). So putting an open exhaust on this would completely change the tone. However, something like the Aston Martin Vantage (the new one) already has an open exhaust when it's floored past a certain rpm, so putting a full race exhaust wouldnt' really change the tone at all, or at most make it a little bit louder. That's a LOT of work for PD to do to accurately simulate it, and I dont' see that happening.

So, I'd be happy with them recording every car model (excluding cars with identical engines and exhaust systems) with the stock exhaust under load, then unbolting the exhaust and and opening the air cleaner and recording it again for racing exhaust, since racing exhaust is pretty much straight out anyway. Then, they can do a mix of the two for sports/semi-racing exhaust. That's the only way I see of the sounds being satisfactorially recorded. Oh, and they'd need one microphone at the tailpipe, one in the driver's seat (or close to it), and one right over the hood.

 

[harrytuttle]

To me, the main problem with engine noise in GT4 is that the cars always sound like they're at half-throttle. The problem is that they record the engine noises at different RPMs, and maybe even a full-throttle run, but this is in neutral with no load on the engine. An engine's exhaust note will completely change when there is a load on the engine as opposed to when it's spinning free. To truly record engine sounds, PD would need to put the cars on a roller dyno and record them on a run from near-idle to redline. This would be extremely time-consuming, as it can take 15 minutes just to set a RWD car up on a dyno, and the more power the longer it takes. Not to mention trying to get the owner's permission, because dyno runs aren't very nice to cars.

They did just that. The problem is that they didn't do it for all cars. Watching the behind-the-scenes videos, many of the cars were recorded out in the parking lot spinning the engine in neutral. As far as I can tell, this results in a very different sound than when an engine is actually under load. At least, it seems that way on every car I've driven. Doing it outside was the right idea (rather than the echoy garage), but they need to bring the dyno out with the car.

 

[JTSnooks]

Agreed, and you're right, it produces a completely different sound. But, it takes a long time to strap a car to a dyno, so I can see why they didn't do it. However, if it's going to take them a week or so to finish a car model (or probably more like 1 per day, really), then they can at least run a couple cars a day on a dyno. If they need the sound of a '66 Pontiac 389 running through the stock single exhaust, I'll gladly volunteer my car.

 

[harrytuttle]

Agreed, and you're right, it produces a completely different sound. But, it takes a long time to strap a car to a dyno, so I can see why they didn't do it. However, if it's going to take them a week or so to finish a car model (or probably more like 1 per day, really), then they can at least run a couple cars a day on a dyno. If they need the sound of a '66 Pontiac 389 running through the stock single exhaust, I'll gladly volunteer my car.

I suppose. I can only imagine how long it would take to dyno 750 (well, 500 assuming the Skyline/Evo/etc. redundancies) cars outside. But if they had thought to do this from the beginning, they'd already have a good library of sounds recorded back when, say, GT3 was being made. Use that library and just add all the new stuff. Oh, well; can't assume everyone thinks logically.

 

[No Sweat]

I agree with you harry tuttle. Why didnt Polyphony start cataloging car sounds right from the beginning? That certainly would have made things easier

 

[Hun200kmh]

I really wish the GT40 in GT5 would sound just like this one


GT40' roar

 

[vpance]

Have a listen to these new videos..

http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/movie/d483.html
http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/movie/d485.html

..Sound familiar??

 

[Patrik]

..Sound familiar??

Yes! just the old booring "dry" engine sound.. and that that anoying squeak from the tires have we heard form the first GT. VERY DISSAPOINTING!!!

 

[German Muscle]

i think accurate engine sounds is very much so needed. As far as the dyno goes.... They could rent a mobile dynojet to test all the cars. It takes about 5 minutes to get the car strapped onto the dyno. Then you make dynos pulls sampling the sounds from every gear and also noting the cars charecteristics. turbo lag, spool up, re spool, boost, EGTs and so on. The more power the car has the less time it takes to dyno.

 

[kikie]

yep, the car and tire sounds are still the same as in GT4.

: there're are still no tire track in GT HD. A car should leave some tire tracks on the asphalt, drifting through corners like that.

 

[HuskyNSX]

..Sound familiar??

Engine sound is just terrible! I hope they'll do in that way to, to improve it!!

 

[Patrik]

i think accurate engine sounds is very much so needed. As far as the dyno goes.... They could rent a mobile dynojet to test all the cars. It takes about 5 minutes to get the car strapped onto the dyno. Then you make dynos pulls sampling the sounds from every gear and also noting the cars charecteristics. turbo lag, spool up, re spool, boost, EGTs and so on. The more power the car has the less time it takes to dyno.

yeah great idea! I can't understand why it is written in the magazines: "the sound is recorded from the real cars!" and still it is exactly the same sound as in the first GT!! the cars doesn't sound like the irl at all! The idea about recording on a dynotest is great!

if KY and his PD not improve this untill GT5 the game will actually SUCK!

 

[kikie]

They have to improve a lot more than the sound alone.

 

[V1P3R]

It's the weakest part of GT at this point IMO. That's what they should be focusing on.

 

[kikie]

The AI is the weakest point IMO

 

[Jedi2016]

I really wish the GT40 in GT5 would sound just like this one


GT40' roar

I love that video, mostly because of that snap-turn trick he does. That's one thing that's missing sorely from GT, I think. For a "simulator", it should be pretty easy to pull of a turn like that, but you can't.

 

[Wolfe]

The sound is the weakest part of GT at this point IMO. That's what they should be focusing on.

The AI is the weakest point IMO

Well, the physics are the weakest point IMO.

Why don't we all agree that they should just work on improving everything as much as they can?

 

[gt3killer]

Wow. Just... wow. Fan Boyism is a SUPERB way to describe exactly what is going on here now. Children, don't take it personally that I dared offer some constructive criticism for your beloved game. You should know that I am here in the hopes that fans are made aware of the potential of Racing Sims and demand more of this already great game. Your talk of crusades makes me wonder if you need to spend just wee bit more time in the real world, rather than gaming.

If it offers any credibility to my point of view, I've been to countless dozens of sports car events and am quite familiar with what a real racing car sounds like. Both trackside and in the cockpit. My on track experience has been limited to SCCA Autocross and Open Track Days, but suffice it to say that I know my way around cars.

I've heard of Fan Boyism before, but never quite experienced it this way, firsthand. I've got to say I'm really getting a kick out of this!

I think he has a point with sound and as many of guys who argee his point also have a point. I'm a HUGE GT fan but I have to admit the sounds can use so improving. Granted PD adds whole lot to their package I'm every pleased with the entire GT4 game. But I do hope with the extra power from the PS3 they can get better sounds at higher sample rates with more subtle details. If I had to say what was really missing from a GT game it has to be the sound. Yes I play GT4 on a 5.1 and it sounds great but the sound quality of most of the cars all start to sound alike. PD has improved the sound sence GT3, creating a more organic sound for GT4, but it would be silly to say that it's perfect and I'm sure PD is aware this.

 

[Safe Speed]

I guess it's not just me....but it seemed that in GT4, the majority of Japanese cars had a meaner and deeper sound than the American cars.

What was up with that?

 

[RedOak]

I wish PD would hire the sound team from EA's NFS team. They know how to integrate sounds in a racing game. Test Drive Unlimited was pretty close as well.