Inside Sim Racing video. GT5P vs Forza 2 Now with new 2nd video!!!!

[otago]

I've owned many different RWD's in past eighteen years, and first ten years I did drive them 'to limits' in every condition from ice to hot-tarmac. It's only miracle that I'm here to typing these answers.

I dont care is car in sim acting just like it's real-life model... but if it's acting familiar to me, I can get my adrenaline-fixes and that's why I race. I have family and friends, so I cant do 'night-racing' anymore, so sim-racing is my subutex.

The ice is different story. I never spined in summer, but a lot on icy roads, it has nothing to do with any hot-tarmac simulators, PC or not. FWD cars oversteer like hell on ice and braking can ruin car's balance even on straight line if it's hard enough.

Though spin handling skills from auto simulators worked pretty well for me, never lost car completely

 

[Asylum]

Console-sims needs to improve massively, if they wanted to be even close in realism to some PC-sims.

Now I'm wondering why I was so stupid that I never before did that... my gaming PC cost half than my PS3.

Someone else with a brain in there head pc gamming will always win over console sims.


you have one cheap pc then haha good find

 

[Oner]

"Oner ~ Yes GT doesn't have crash modeling (yet ) but when it comes to DRIVING PHYSICS there are people who are sorely mistaken in their underestimations of GT's representation of reality."

There is no way to say which one is more real: GT5 Prologue or any other driving sim, but talking about GT4 - this is the worst driving game with label "simulator" ever created.

You know why there was no telemetry in GT4? Because there was nothing to show, the game didn't calculate even the very basic car physics at all. Enthusia was a way more close to reality.

As for me I don't care about reality too much, cause nobody knows how is driving real sport car on real track. GTP has a great feeling and the only one game which can compete with it is Forza (if MS finally release some good racing wheel or allow to use Logitech wheels)

Certain options might not have been included/made within GT4 this is true yes, but it seems to me what you are saying is YOUR opinion about how GT feels to YOU more so than based on real facts for others. Example ~ the vehicles I have owned or driven of which where available in GT4 ranging from a Galant VR4, AWD & FWD Eclipses, Mustangs or other USDM V8's, RX7's, Integra's/Civics, Audi's & Porsche's to many more, all felt very similar in representation to MY experience with them. Now I am not saying it was a 100% perfect comparison as NO VR RACING Title has EVER been "exact"; but again from MY experience with real world cars and GT's line of products it is not unfair to say it is definitely similar (in a DRIVING not crashing perspective or "Sim" perspective as I have never owned/used any type of "telemetry" device or ever needed unrealistic tire data for a daily driver/weekend racer in real life so how can I base that as a factor in a video game for comparison or vice versa?).

FWD cars oversteer like hell on ice

Actually, that's all I need to see & know to take what you say without seriousness.

 

[RUFin]

Aki,now that its summer time,no moore racing in night time.Lets meet(RWD/FWD)in Länsiväylä,my little one against the mighty Beemar.Hope its not 3,5L,or moore?
-Peugeot with TURBO

 

[AutoAki]

Aki,now that its summer time,no moore racing in night time.Lets meet(RWD/FWD)in Länsiväylä,my little one against the mighty Beemar.Hope its not 3,5L,or moore?
-Peugeot with TURBO

Heh... my old Lady Tank would never have chance against your Peugeot. Only if we would take drag-race from Helsinki, 'who is 1st in Saunalahti Bridge' I maybe could be competitive, but let me tell that's insane. Long straight between Suomenoja and Kivenlahti is madly bumpy when speeds are over 200kmh. I have quite new Bilstein suspension, so I could maybe survive alive from that straight.

My bimmer is 'economic' version... so it's only 3.0 Str-6. Not very fast to accelerate, but gear-ratios are setupped to Auto-Bahns, so high speeds are quite decent.


Oh boys, how I sometimes miss those years, when I felt that I was only responsible to myself. Good that we still have even few snowy weeks in Finland... so easy to get kicks without huge speeds.

 

[Kryz11]

You are so clueless, it's not even funny. Just because the majority hasn't driven the cars in GTR means it actually has a chance of not being get real?

Then that goes double for Gran Turismo. 99% of us have never driven all the cars in it, so how we can say it's realistic?

Your double standard rule is a bunch of hogwash, esp. when race car drivers have given credit to both GT & GTR.

And what's this about real tracks? Last I checked, every single track in GTR was a real world circuit. GT can't say the same.


More garbage coming from you. Because you haven't driven them, their realism must now be questioned and yet, you've never driven half of the cars in GT, and you credit it. Have you ever driven a Lamborghini GTR? I highly doubt so, yet you give credit to Forza 2 as a simulator.

Your stupidity is amazing when an easy google search will show many of the men on SimBin's team are/were former race car drivers. Polyphony probably is nowhere near the same.


Here's a hint. Don't talk about GTR or any other PC Simulator's realism until you actually have a clue about their development & whose behind the game. 👎

Here's a simple reason as to why race cars aren't reviewed.

They are generally not available to the public, so the public really has no interest how the seating is, or how stiff the ride is. All the public cares about is when do they get to see it race. Second off, race teams all carry different setups. There's absolutely zero sense in reviewing a car that can be re-adjusted and drive different from the same exact car owned by a different team.

Have you driven a Viper in real life to the same limits as GT5? If not, how do you know its like the real thing? You have no experience, yet you claim it's more realistic? Once again, your double standard rules are absurd.


Simbin has race car experience. All their data also comes from the racing teams. Their tracks are again, also real.

Thank you for calling me STUPID, CLUELESS. and what not..

Did I mention you can read car reviews with extended car specs on how each car handles and how it does it's job... PD guys test drive almost every single car as well, I bet they test driven more then 80% on what's in game, Not counting all the same cars just different specs.

For 22 you don't act like it. Funny how I give my point of view and yo call me STUPID! A mod should look at that.. Hey some people may call GRID a simulator, I have to disagree but I don't go to them and call them DUMB@SSES!

 

[McLaren]

Thank you for calling me STUPID, CLUELESS. and what not.

Amazing that that's all you can read.

Did I mention you can read car reviews with extended car specs on how each car handles and how it does it's job... PD guys test drive almost every single car as well, I bet they test driven more then 80% on what's in game, Not counting all the same cars just different specs.

That really has nothing to do with my post. It's clear you know you've been put on the spot for your false accusations about Simbin's team, and are looking for a quick exit.

For 22 you don't act like it. Funny how I give my point of view and yo call me STUPID! A mod should look at that.. Hey some people may call GRID a simulator, I have to disagree but I don't go to them and call them DUMB@SSES!

And for someone who claims that PD is creating real to life cars & Simbin isn't, you're making a big claim.

You have no point of view. I don't see it as such because it's just a bunch of garbage with no factual evidence & multiple examples of 1 sided rules. I never called you a dumbass, but I'm sure a large population of the PC Sim Racing community will see your uninformed posts as such.

 

[Kryz11]

Still my ideas, and no it's not scientific fact but for sure they are not stupid heh

lets just drink it up hahah

 

[Kryz11]

Thread is open again! Post thoughts

 

[Tenacious D]

Simbin has race car experience. All their data also comes from the racing teams. Their tracks are again, also real.

I just want to point out that the original GTR, which was so awesome, required the modding community to correct the tire physics.

I don't want to stir up the ire of Revention, but it does seem to me that every racing game gets most things right, but not all. It could be argued that the PC sims get the most things right, but I'm still not entirely sold on this, and by this, I mean that racing games have pretty narrowly defined racing. I'm not sure that anyone has been able to drift a GTR vehicle like they have a Live For Speed or Gran Turismo car. And if LFS is the pinnacle of car and tire physics, does that mean no one has much to say?

I've been posting that I'd like GT's tire dynamics tweaked a bit, but I'm beginning to rethink this request somewhat. Once again, this is real life experience, but both my Supra MkIII and a relative's Nissan Sentra Spec V do seem to behave remarkably like the cars with non-racing tires in Prologue. I tried to push the Supra around a cloverleaf past 40mph on some fairly grippy Dunlops, and it got rather scary. And I might add, the tire squeals sounded remarkably like the samples in Prologue, for what it's worth. While I'd like more work spent on the dynamics at the edge of grip, it dos seem that the typical sports car on solid S2 type tires does bog in turns fairly realistically. You know, that understeer thing.

I have noticed early on that both Forza 2 and GTR Evo hype speed. In other words, the surroundings fly past unrealistically fast. When I saw this in Evo it really shocked me that a sim would do that, and it seems they bowed to pressure to make their games more exciting. Everyone who complains that Gran Turismo games look too slow, I have zero doubt they're comparing their opinions on another racing game, not real life. Because real life is SLOW.

Once again, real life experience. Taking the road home down the boulevard, and speeding to 45mph, the roadside seems to crawl past, because of my experiences in video game racing. The same thing taking the highway at 90mph, it seems like I can watch roadside features or points on the road come up to me at my leisure. And of course, when I fix my eyes on a set point ahead rather than track something, there's motion blur. Meanwhile, I was leaving pit lane at 45mph in GTR Evo, when my DF Pro was still working anyway, and I was stunned to see the pit surroundings flying past. On the other hand, Prologue is much closer to reality. 60mph seems lethargic, just like it feels to me behind the wheel of my Supra. It always wants to go 30-40mph faster. Really, it does.

 

[ultimitsu]

my 2 cents...

1, GT5P is a full game, prologue or not, you pay good money for it so it cant excuse its way out because it has P in it.

2, having that said, GT5P is roughly 35% cheaper than normal new releases, it was 70NZD here in New Zealand, when most new games are 120 NZD. I believe this difference exist everyone else as well. so that needs to be taken into consideration.

3, different have different priority. to me personally, number of cars doesnt matter. I played GT1 on PS1 for a very long time and never really played 70% of the cars. so number of cars sits very low in my priority list, physics is, realism is, day and night isnt, wet road isnt, damage is not on the list, I in fact much perfer penalty system.

4, people here are only upset because their prefered game got bashed by some reviewer. but you already know they got the critirias wrong, they are not authority and do not sway the market anyway. so who cares?

 

[jonboy1066]

I think it's a great and very accurate review. The only issue I have with it is their score for multiplayer.

They scored Forza and GT5P virtually the same, I know it was a toss up between priorities of having a 16 player lobby or making the room settings yourself, but in my experience I have only witnessed one or two 16 Player lobbies with GT5P and then they've all been ruined by a few punters, wall riders and cutters.

At least with Forza you can choose who you race with and communicate with them.

For me GT5P would have scored a lot lower than it did, although I think the Forza score was about right.

 

[Forgetful]

my 2 cents...

1, GT5P is a full game, prologue or not, you pay good money for it so it cant excuse its way out because it has P in it.

2, having that said, GT5P is roughly 35% cheaper than normal new releases, it was 70NZD here in New Zealand, when most new games are 120 NZD. I believe this difference exist everyone else as well. so that needs to be taken into consideration.

I'm sorry, you've got me confused. Is it no excuses 'cause you paid for it, or do you give it some allowances due to the price break? You can't have both.

The fact of the matter is it was very easy for me to get more than my moneys worth out of Prologue, it leaves me excited for the full game, and still offers plenty of playability, all on the cheap!👍

If you want to compare a piece of a game to a full one, it's only fair to rate each other against what is included in both. You can't really detract from Prologue for not having features that match up with the other game.

 

[Kryz11]

The fact of the matter is it was very easy for me to get more than my moneys worth out of Prologue, it leaves me excited for the full game, and still offers plenty of playability, all on the cheap!👍

Yeah GT5P with not much content, but attention to detail made me play more then almost any other racing game even on PC.

Just imagine GT5 with damage, 4 times the tracks, and 8 times the cars! And tons and tons of events for offline and online.

 

[jonboy1066]

Just imagine GT5 with damage, 4 times the tracks, and 8 times the cars! And tons and tons of events for offline and online.

I believe it's called Forza 2 LOL

I'm just kiddin before all the GT fanbois come rolling in

 

[JDMKING13]

Just got done playing some forza2 with a stock Nissan GT-R V-specII on suzuka. 1st i would like to say the car sounds nothing like it should, GT5P did a great job with mimicing the RB inline six motor. This was not the worst thing though. I remember when i was doing tire research for GT5P, I read an article about how the GT-R V-specII was a great car, but if not driven carefully the rear would break out on a driver. Playing GT5P if you gas it hard enough the rear does indeed break out. NOT with Forza2 the darn car stuck to the ground like glue. This probaly would explain why i got a 2'16.5 with a stock GT-R V-specII on Suzuka In Forza 2. Even with my Tuned RX-7 Spirit R on S2 550pp on Suzuka my best time is a 1'19.1 free mode and 1'18.6 in the race event. Like i said before forza cars are way to easy to handle and the tracks do not come close to the real tracks which makes it easier to go fast. Thanks for reopening this thread NoxNoctis Umbra 👍

 

[geo1098]

I believe it's called Forza 2 LOL

LOL! Hard to defend GT5P when its the only thing we got from PD for over a year and no news of what if anything is coming.

That said, the guys doing the review don't seem to drive very well. From what the one dude said about his camaro it doesn't look like he has ever done a track day event either. I would hope someone doing a serious review on race sims would at least have some real world experience. For what it is worth, a must on an average street car before you take it to a road course is better brake pads, racing brake fluid, and fresh tires, more sticky than stock helps too. You don't need much else, at least not in the beginning. So when he said he had done an intake and exhaust, etc. on what most consider a crap track car, (I see a lot of different cars at my local track day events, a camaro is not often one of them) then saw the quality driving I guess I was not surprised. For what some aftermarket exhaust probably set him back he could have done two or three track events at least.

The wheel review did seem to have some value, might have to upgrade my DFGT to a Fanatec GT3 wheel once they are back in stock. Maybe if PD keeps all of us waiting too long I'll get a 360 and give Forza 3 a try when it comes out.

 

[ultimitsu]

I'm sorry, you've got me confused. Is it no excuses 'cause you paid for it, or do you give it some allowances due to the price break? You can't have both.

The fact of the matter is it was very easy for me to get more than my moneys worth out of Prologue, it leaves me excited for the full game, and still offers plenty of playability, all on the cheap!👍 .

a lot of arguments here is saying that GT5P lacks all the missing features because it is a Beta, not a full game. My point is, it is a full game, it is a full game that is 35% cheaper than other full games, so it is OK to compare them, but price difference need to be taken into consideration. for example, it would be fair to ask for GT5P to have 65% of the cars, tracks and features as Forza 2 (i wouldnt personally ask for that, but that to prove a point).

does GT5P have enough content and merit to justify its cost when compared to Forza 2, i think that is the golden question.

personally i think it is very close. but it is not quite there yet.

1, number of cars dont matter to me, each car need to be tuned differently for each race of different PP and to each track, that alone creates so many variations of the samr car. so the number of cars in GT5P actually satisfies me. (i only wish it had MRS, because that is a car I am considering buying and modding myself)

2, number of tracks is slightly low, highspeed ring and daytona oval can be excluded from serious racing as they are too simple. i'd say maybe 3 more complex tracks will be enough, much like how many GT1 had.

3, damage is not needed in my book at all, does any one demand tekken 6 to show character face having bruises everytime they get punched? or Uncharted 2 show Drake bleed everytime he gets shot? so why the fascination with cars showing damage in a race? in fact i find damage in GRID to be distracting.

4, the inablity to race with friends over LAN or net is a huge missing part. I dont see why that is so hard.

5, realism in physics is what most people look for in a racing sim, and that is where GT5 excels, that is why i dont mind if GT5 doesnt have 4000 cards and 50 tracks and car damage.

If you want to compare a piece of a game to a full one, it's only fair to rate each other against what is included in both. You can't really detract from Prologue for not having features that match up with the other game
let me clarify..

I wish only what you said is true..

unfortunately GT5P is NOT "a piece of a game", for the simply fact that despite you already paid for GT5P, if you want GT5 full version, you have to pay the full price. If sony allowed all GT5P owners to hand in their disc and pay the difference (30 in USA and 50 in NZ), and get the full game, then I would actually agree with you.

at current rate, GT5P should really be called GT5, and GT5 full version should really be called GT6.

 

[Kryz11]

I believe it's called Forza 2 LOL

I'm just kiddin before all the GT fanbois come rolling in

BAHH!! Feed him to the sharks YaRrR!

LOL.. well Forza 2 has hmm 300 cars? And not much attention to detail .. how cars look and graphics

I better shut up before Forza fans will destroy me

HAHA

 

[balang_479]

gosh they suck. even with a wheel, its theyre hobby and they have a show and yet they are still last in every race i see and crash, and had bronzes in B class...

I think GT5P did really well for a demo compared to a FULL game, if people call GT5P a full game then they have no idea of the extent of content the full game will have (thinking back to all the complete GTs)..

 

[thugbear2005]

gosh they suck. even with a wheel, its theyre hobby and they have a show and yet they are still last in every race i see and crash, and had bronzes in B class...

I think GT5P did really well for a demo compared to a FULL game, if people call GT5P a full game then they have no idea of the extent of content the full game will have (thinking back to all the complete GTs)..

It's been established that they know how to drive/race, and for what was given in the two products offered it was a fair review. They basically said if GT had damage, more cars, and more tracks it would have been better. I know you love the GT series, but you have to look at this from an unbiased viewpoint.

 

[No46_TheDoctor]

Wow. I just checked my email and had an auto notification that there was a reply from simracingtonight that said ~



Now that comment is nowhere to be found on the comments page so it was removed before I could answer back but, whatever. Great attitude and professionalism from these "so called experts in the field" who obviously can't take constructive criticism that is clear as day by their lack of being able to keep a car on track, blatant ramming of other vehicles, inability to use a brake for what it is intended for and overall poor car control amongst other things to say the least....expert sim race reviewers...what a damned joke.

Thats nothing, you should see the private message they sent me !!!

 

[Oner]

Post it here...

 

[ultimitsu]

I think GT5P did really well for a demo compared to a FULL game, if people call GT5P a full game then they have no idea of the extent of content the full game will have (thinking back to all the complete GTs)..

Fanboi.

if you didnt have to pay for GT5P then this is all good, but you had to pay for it, a good 65% of other games too. so it is not a demo, not a beta, it is a full game that is a bit cheaper than others.

i dont care what extra "GT5" will have, it is irrelevant at this point, we paid for GT5P so we expect it to live up to its price.

 

[thugbear2005]

For $40 it's well worth it's price.

 

[ultimitsu]

For $40 it's well worth it's price.

that is subjective and what this review in question had done to investigate

 

[thugbear2005]

Compared to other racing games/sims, dollar for dollar, you get a lot for $40. ($30 if you buy used.)

 

[ultimitsu]

Compared to other racing games/sims, dollar for dollar, you get a lot for $40. ($30 if you buy used.)

in this review, it was compared to forza 2. and unfortunately it didnt fare as well as you hoped.

it certainly doesnt have 65% of the cars and tracks. as for features, I dont know the exact count, but sounds like a lot less too.

 

[thugbear2005]

in this review, it was compared to forza 2. and unfortunately it didnt fare as well as you hoped.

it certainly doesnt have 65% of the cars and tracks. as for features, I dont know the exact count, but sounds like a lot less too.

I already said it was a fair and accurate review, what did I say I was hoping for exactly?

 

[speedthrill]

You guys do realise that half what they said on the comparision is a setup, like in not true at all, just smth the directors or scenarists pumped in to make it more "believable" in a way. Only they didn't do it that good as in let's say Top Gear, were probably almost everything is directed, but you can't feel it there...

Greets