Inside Sim Racing video. GT5P vs Forza 2 Now with new 2nd video!!!!

[otago]

Gran Turismo 5 Prologue and Toca seem to be right in the middle of it all, a nice balance of forgiving behavior with a healthy dose of realism.

LOL. Dude, Codemasters makes cheap arcades far beyond any PGR title for decade already.

 

[thugbear2005]

People have made real cars in rFactor, and from reading how people have reviewed them, some seem to be really realistic.

p.s.- is there no rule on double posting anymore?

 

[otago]

People have made real cars in rFactor

I'm sure that Shelby Cobra made by some cOOlraceR after his school homework is just spot on.

You don't have any quality control over all this mods, at least when developers implement in game real cars you can trust them more or less and have consistent quality. With mods it's not possible and you never know what you get

 

[thugbear2005]

But people do test after they are made and review the product given...

It seems like your way of thinking is, "If it doesn't take a large team, it can't possibly be realistic." There was a corvette mod for rFactor that I was reading about where people said it had arguably some of the best physics in a sim racer.

 

[Kryz11]

Its funny how proffesional race car driver review Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, he talk about what I talked about as well many other aspects, doing high speed turns with Mid Engine cars, letting go of gas and spinning out.. and still people say GT5P is unrealistic.

 

[otago]

But people do test after they are made and review the product given...

You must be professional in simulation to implement physics of real car in game, driving to nearest Wall mart with same car won't help too much.

And how do you think people test Cobras and other exotic and super cars? The first one cost around 1.5 mil

 

[Kryz11]

I think you answered your own question, in a way.

It seems like certain people latch onto certain games because some aspect of how some cars behave hits them right in the pleasure center........ With each GT game, Kaz and his team drew closer to reality, and Prologue is very close to real life. It makes me VERY anxious to get my hands on GT5 itself, and see what secrets Kazunori-dono has been keeping from us.

And yes, I too would LOVE to be a race car driver.

Very nicely written. I would agree 100%

For the most people that play PC sims and GT5P and saying that GT5P feels arcade for them, is because, I think, that Gran Turismo is lacking Damage. For many people Physics is damage as well.
For me GT5P is on top with car realism in terms of doing hot lopping and racing.. But damage is lacking, and for me as well Damage will add another physics realism.

I still think GT5P is not perfect, still many things to improve, I know GT5 will improve the things I have in mind, but biggest one is damage, at least internal/mechanical.

 

[thugbear2005]

You must be professional in simulation to implement physics of real car in game, driving to nearest Wall mart with same car won't help too much.

And how do you think people test Cobras and other exotic and super cars? The first one cost around 1.5 mil

Not every mod is a super car mod. Some people do make everyday road cars for these games. People also take road cars out to track days and attempt to drive cars near the limits. You don't have to be a professional in simulation to know what a car is supposed to feel like. Many people have already given multiple reasons on why Forza is flawed.

 

[otago]

Many people have already given multiple reasons on why Forza is flawed.

Well, I didn't find any reasonable.

To make a car right in game you need a lot of stuff, like power and torque curves, how to calculate this particular type of suspension, what are physical parameters of shocks and so on. Tires are the hardest part.

It has nothing to do with what some guy think about how that car feels.

 

[thugbear2005]

It has nothing to do with what some guy think about how that car feels.

I quit.

 

[Jay]

I yet still have to play iRacing, but I belive that iRacing and GT5P feels the same except GT5P is bit tougher.

iracing is a bit tougher, IMO they feel similar enough to jump from one to the other but if you try attacking curbs in iracing like you do in GT5P you will get a nasty suprise.

They are. LFS and rFactor.

Fancy race cars in SimBin games as good as fictional, nobody can check them. They have some pretty strange behavior compare to other sims, but nobody knows how FIA GT cars drive.

You tryied the Audi R8 road car in GTR Evo? I swear when driving it you are still in a FIA GT car...

 

[otago]

I quit.

Out of reasonable arguments?

I'll give you an example: this famous Top Gear episode how real GT4 is. So this Clarcson guy drove NSX in GT4 on Laguna Seca (with pad). Than he went to real track and drove real NSX. The real car behaved exactly opposite how it was in GT4 in every single aspect.

So after this Clarcson concluded that GT4 is more real than real life and just wondered why his times in real life and game were different? Maybe because in real life Clarcson oversteered like hell and spinned 90 degrees wide instead undesteering and being rock stable NSX in GT4? LOL

So you see, people can "feel" anything

 

[Kryz11]

Yeah the in GTR EVO street legal cars behave like... crap.. You still feel like you are in a RACE car.. It was the lamest attempt from them in GTR and Race series. And its funny GTR EVO thinks R8 is RWD car.. hahahah


And by the way, in Top Gear, Clarckson in the end did say in real life he could achieve the same time with the NSX, but in real life you have this G-Forces acting on your body and giving you a scare factor..

HE I bet used Stickier tires then real NSX had, and yeah PAD not wheel..
But he made good point that games are becoming realistic but there is not scare factor, hit Start and restart, something life does not have.

 

[thugbear2005]

I'm not going to let a fanboy rile me up on the internet. Anytime someone gives a valid argument you don't seem to want to respond with logic. So, once again, I quit.

 

[Kryz11]

Fanboy.. such a good word to end a conversation with..

oi

 

[McLaren]

They are. LFS and rFactor.

Fancy race cars in SimBin games as good as fictional, nobody can check them. They have some pretty strange behavior compare to other sims, but nobody knows how FIA GT cars drive.

Somehow I don't believe in Race Pro at all, rock stable and giant undesteer doesn't sound like any race car. Besides very simplified driving many cars in this game can't pass turns faster than Corolla in real life.

I love this argument. None of us have driven FIA cars, so how do we know they're realistic?

On RaceSimCentral, one of the owners of ACEMCO had actually played GTR and during its first 3 months of being out on the market, he quoted that the game does a great job of simulating the S7R and that within a few minutes, he set it up similar to his own team's S7R.
There are also several guys on RSC or NoGrip who own race cars. And while they're not FIA GT spec, they're enough for these men to understand how a race car will react.


BTW, how can you make the statement that we don't how FIA GT cars drive? How many people on this site have driven all the cars in GT5 or Forza 2? I bet absolutely zero. So how can you or anyone else claim PC sims aren't any more realistic than GT5 or Forza? I highly doubt you know what a Formula 1 or Ford GT drives like on Suzuka or Daytona, so who are you to question PC sims when you have no idea what it's really like to drive the cars in GT & Forza?


On another note, Clarkson's review is slightly flawed because he did not use the same NSX model. I believe he used a NSX-R in the game & a base in real life, or vice versa. Either way, it contributed to his times.

 

[otago]

On RaceSimCentral, one of the owners of ACEMCO had actually played GTR and during its first 3 months of being out on the market, he quoted that the game does a great job of simulating the S7R and that within a few minutes, he set it up similar to his own team's S7R.
There are also several guys on RSC or NoGrip who own race cars. And while they're not FIA GT spec, they're enough for these men to understand how a race car will react.

And Turn10 is official sponsor of American Le Mans Risi team, which uses same cars as FIA GT, and Turn10 worked closely with team's mechanics and drivers during creation of Forza 2.

You can say things like this about almost every auto simulator game and it doesn't brings too much basically

 

[otago]

On another note, Clarkson's review is slightly flawed

It's not "slightly flawed", it's complete bull****. I can't oversteer and spin like this with Forza NSX, and NSX in GT4 is just not capable of any oversteer or spins at all.

Though I like Top Gears guys, especially their sense of humor.

 

[red7]

For many people Physics is damage as well.

I would agree with this to the extent that having somewhat realistic damage means having somewhat realistic collision physics, which gt5p utterly fails at the moment. In this respect, we're seeing the same thing we've had since gt3 or so.

 

[McLaren]

And Turn10 is official sponsor of American Le Mans Risi team, which uses same cars as FIA GT, and Turn10 worked closely with team's mechanics and drivers during creation of Forza 2.

You can say things like this about almost every auto simulator game and it doesn't brings too much basically

The cars in ALMS are not like the FIA GT cars. They're setup very different due to their rules.

And Turn10 is not the official sponsor, nor was it ever. It advertised Forza 2 in 2007, but in 2008, they did not return. Delphi & Freescale were the sponsors on their trunks, & I believe they still are. Ferrari of Houston in association with Ferrari of Silicon Valley are the official sponsors & runners of the Risi team.

As for working with the team, a F430 GT's creation in the game hardly speaks for the rest of the cars in the game. I don't even recall any of the Pit Passes mentioning the use of working with Risi.

 

[EERS4YEARS]

I wouldnt consider defamation physics, but you are right RED7 the cars act to crazy when they get bumped. Today I was ghosting a tiny bit with another car, then he just went flying off the track, I didnt even hit the back of him! We should have just rubbed a little going through the chicane at suzuka. A not so minor flaw.

 

[Jay]

I wouldnt consider defamation physics, but you are right RED7 the cars act to crazy when they get bumped. Today I was ghosting a tiny bit with another car, then he just went flying off the track, I didnt even hit the back of him! We should have just rubbed a little going through the chicane at suzuka. A not so minor flaw.

Thats lag.

 

[ultimitsu]

Thats fine but..... People who buy Prologue know what they are getting (unless they blindly buy it), GT5P states on the back of the cover what it features and if thats not good enough for the price then you don't buy it.

You are right not many series could attempt to sell a prologue successfully, some people despise that Sony is making money on a 'prologue' while others like myself are very grateful, GT is pretty much the only reason I even buy a console anymore, with such long waits between versions It's great to have something to gnaw away at.

you dont just a book by its cover, same with games, that is why we have review sites to rate the game with hands on experience. I doubt any buyers of GT5P actually based their decision on what they read in the cover.

I am not arguing GT5P is a bad game or it is a rip off, I am arguing that people need to stop defending it with the argument of it is a demo/prologue/beta - for it is not, it is a full game with a retail price. and when judged against competitions, it quite frankly doesnt dominate (or win at all, depending on your preference).

I do not really despise sony for selling GT5P, because like I said, GT5P really is GT5, GT5-full is really GT6, they are released 18 month apart and both cost money, compete with different competition.

 

[otago]

I don't even recall any of the Pit Passes mentioning the use of working with Risi.

There were many of them. Example:

http://forzamotorsport.net/news/pitpassreports/pitpass67.htm

 

[otago]

you dont just a book by its cover, same with games, that is why we have review sites to rate the game with hands on experience.

Well, SimRacing reviews are not bad, so not too good either.

The rest like Gamespot, IGN and so on are just plain horrible. If you want to buy racing game with some physics you'd better don't read them at all

 

[Jay]

I doubt any buyers of GT5P actually based their decision on what they read in the cover.

Thats how many casual gamers and kids buy games, they go into the store, go over game covers and buy what appeals to them . It just happens GT5P displays on the back what you get in the game, so you don't expect more than you got.

It's called prologue because it is a prologue to GT5, if people want to class it as a full game then that is upto them. I don't class it as a full game personally, I payed half price (even a little less) at release and I knew it was limited from the start.
I personally would give GT5P high rankings for what I think it is, but if it was to review it thinking of it as a rival to all the other full games (Forza 2 etc) then it would get a much lower score and would be a dissapointment, buts thats not how I see GT5P.

This was much of the reason GT4P was helb back from release in the US, GT producer was concerned it would be too confusing, I never remember these disscussions beck then (but I may have forgot)

Well, SimRacing reviews are not bad, so not too good either.

The rest like Gamespot, IGN and so on are just plain horrible. If you want to buy racing game with some physics you'd better don't read them at all

Indeed, I think Gamespot is the worst though.

 

[otago]

Indeed, I think Gamespot is the worst though.

I think the worst is IGN cause Porsche Unleashed there has the lowest score between all NFS, and this game was the best in the series even in comparison to NFS 1-4.

 

[Blitz187]

I do not really despise sony for selling GT5P, because like I said, GT5P really is GT5, GT5-full is really GT6, they are released 18 month apart and both cost money, compete with different competition.

Can you explain how you came up with this reasoning? How is GT5 really GT5 and the full GT5 actually GT6??? If I were you I would scroll back and check out what the meaning of "prologue" is. People that have known the GT series KNOW that Prologue is just a taste of things to come. I think PD knew it was going to take long to they gave us a bone and made some money off of it as well. So be it, thats the way companies work, they have to make money as well. People who hang around here also know that prologue is more of a teaser, you paid half price for it and I assume you knew it would have limited content from the beginning. So why do you and so many others classify this as a "FULL" game? You paid half price and it was publicly known that it had limited content.

 

[Jay]

I think the worst is IGN cause Porsche Unleashed there has the lowest score between all NFS, and this game was the best in the series even in comparison to NFS 1-4.

IMO the original Road & track presents NFS was the best and Porsche unleashed comes in at second.

 

[McLaren]

There were many of them. Example:

http://forzamotorsport.net/news/pitpassreports/pitpass67.htm

Ok, that says the drivers played the game & drove their, but it doesn't state anywhere that Risi actually worked with Turn10 on the data & physics....