Iran Attempts to Build an Air Force, Fails at Life

[Omnis]

Watch Bush say that Iran has become a threat to the nation. That's lulz.

 

[Grand Prix]

Watch Bush say that Iran has become a threat to the nation. That's lulz.

Indeed. He'll start a new mess in Iran to clean up just when the 2008 elections come, and whoever wins that one will look bad for years trying to clean up the mess.

 

[a6m5]

Syria is shamed and silent. Iran is freaking out in panic. Defenseless enemies are fun.[/b]

Even the American air defense system isn't nearly perfect. Did Syria even have a chance with their quick fix air defense?

 

[niky]

Dangerous game being played there... but possibly necessary.

I'd put my bet on "missiles"...

Wonder how they're going to play it out... neither side is willing to go into an all-out war. For one, Iran and Syria are at a disadvantage, tactically, versus Israel, for another, the US isn't in any position to declare another war, so their support for Israel would probably be more in a supporting role than as a major partner.

 

[Omnis]

How about we support neither Israel or Iran? Israel has nukes, yo. Ultimately, they don't need us at all.

 

[Philly]

China's oil ties to Iran? Important?

 

[Danoff]

Wonder how they're going to play it out... neither side is willing to go into an all-out war. For one, Iran and Syria are at a disadvantage, tactically, versus Israel, for another, the US isn't in any position to declare another war, so their support for Israel would probably be more in a supporting role than as a major partner.

The US is tactically completely capable of anything that would be needed to neutralize a threat from Iran. If anything Iraq actually helps us in that regard since it gives us a nearby staging point. The resources we have tied up in Iraq are man power and ground units - neither of which would be needed or even wanted in an offensive against Iran.

 

[niky]

What about the political will to enter that war? I do agree that technically, if the US wanted to, they could wipe Iran's military off the map in the blink of an eye, but that takes political support and funding... it's not something that can be entered into lightly post-Iraq. And once done, we'd have two countries to babysit. One of which would probably elect another fanatic, given the chance, considering they don't see him as an oppressor (like most Iraqis saw Saddam) but rather a hero.

Personally, I'd like to see this crisis point passed at the soonest possible, but I'm kind of glad that people are considering their options now, instead of going headlong into another conflict.

 

[Danoff]

What about the political will to enter that war? I do agree that technically, if the US wanted to, they could wipe Iran's military off the map in the blink of an eye, but that takes political support and funding... it's not something that can be entered into lightly post-Iraq. And once done, we'd have two countries to babysit. One of which would probably elect another fanatic, given the chance, considering they don't see him as an oppressor (like most Iraqis saw Saddam) but rather a hero.

No need to babysit, and no need for regime change. Simply target the offending facilities, pull the trigger, and go home. No political support or funding required. Bush has the authority to do that overnight.

Personally, I'd like to see this crisis point passed at the soonest possible, but I'm kind of glad that people are considering their options now, instead of going headlong into another conflict.

What conflict did you have in mind?

 

[niky]

No need to babysit, and no need for regime change. Simply target the offending facilities, pull the trigger, and go home. No political support or funding required. Bush has the authority to do that overnight.

What conflict did you have in mind?

Oh, you know... c'mon... don't be coy.

I agree about target-specific bombing... but wouldn't it be nice if we just sat back and let Israel do the talking?

Unlike with Afghanistan, which posed a threat to the western world by harboring terrorists and their training camps, Iran's imminent nuclear capability poses a specific, immediate threat to Israel. There's a very good reason for them to go in there and demonstrate that they're not going to take that threat lying down.

Unlike Saddam, though, who wasn't exactly liked by many inside or outside of Iraq, Ahmadinejad isn't hated by his people (although some are starting to become disillusioned by his inability to deliver on his promises), and any direct action against him would just rally his people (and others outside) to his cause.

While you saw Arabic condemnation for US action against Iraq... it didnt' reach the point where other countries were willing to put themselves on the line to defend Iraq. Iran might be a different case.

 

[Keef]

Unlike with Afghanistan, which posed a threat to the western world by harboring terrorists and their training camps, Iran's imminent nuclear capability poses a specific, immediate threat to Israel. There's a very good reason for them to go in there and demonstrate that they're not going to take that threat lying down.

I wasn't aware that Israel ever backed down from a sucker punch. Usually they're the one doing the hitting, aren't they? If anything we'd have to tell them to take it easy.

They've got precision-strike. I'm not sure if they'd use that or send a squadron of Apaches over there to blow stuff up. But I agree with Dan when he says that we wouldn't have to babysit the government or rebuild civilian infrastructure. We'd probably just be aiming at military targets, which are fair game.

 

[Danoff]

Oh, you know... c'mon... don't be coy.

Sorry, you described it as though we'd rushed headlong into it without attempting any alternatives. Kinda threw me off.

 

[niky]

Oh, okay. 👍

As for considering alternatives... how about a CIA-orchestrated popular revolt (c'mon, we haven't had one in a while...). Signs are, it might not be that far-fetched.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g2YgY2ppO_diSEl3NN0g85tl4oRwD8S5B3181

Rare Protest Targets Iranian President

By ALI AKBAR DAREINI – 8 hours ago

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — About 100 students staged a rare protest Monday against Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, calling him a "dictator" as he gave a speech at Tehran University marking the beginning of the academic year.

While the demonstrators and hard-line students loyal to Ahmadinejad scuffled in the auditorium, the president ignored chants of "Death to the dictator" and gave his speech on the merits of science and the pitfalls of Western-style democracy, witnesses said.

The hard-line students chanted "Thank you, president" as police looked on from outside the university's gates without intervening. The protesters dispersed after Ahmadinejad left the campus.

Students were once the main power base of Iran's reform movement but have faced intense pressure in recent years from Ahmadinejad's hard-line government, making anti-government protests rare.

The president faced a similar outburst during a speech last December when students at Amir Kabir Technical University called him a dictator and burned his picture.

Organizers hoped to avoid a similar disturbance Monday with tightened security measures. They checked the identity papers of everyone entering the campus and allowed only selected students into the hall for the speech, but the protesters were somehow able to gain entrance.

Iran's reform movement peaked in the late 1990s after reformist Mohammad Khatami was elected president and his supporters swept parliament. But their efforts to ease social and political restrictions were stymied by hard-liners who control the judiciary, security forces and powerful unelected bodies in the government.

Reformists, who also favor better relations with the United States, were further demoralized and divided after Ahmadinejad won the presidency in 2005 elections.

In recent months, dissenters have witnessed an increasing crackdown, with hundreds detained on accusations of threatening the Iranian system. Numerous pro-reform newspapers have been shut down and those that remain have muted their criticism.

At universities, pro-government student groups have gained strength and reformist students have been marginalized, left to hold only low-level meetings and occasional demonstrations, usually to demand better school facilities or the release of detained colleagues.

Some dissenters blame the crackdown on the regime's fear of a U.S. effort to undermine it as tensions over Iran's nuclear program intensify. Others say the intent is simply to contain discontent fueled by a faltering economy.

Ahmadinejad's popularity at home has fallen since he was elected, with critics saying he has failed to fix the economy and has hurt Iran's image internationally.

Elected on a populist agenda, Ahmadinejad has not kept campaign promises to share oil revenues with every family, eradicate poverty and reduce unemployment. Instead, housing prices in Tehran have tripled, and prices for fruit, vegetables or other commodities have more than doubled over the past year. Inflation worsened after a 25 percent hike in fuel prices in May.

Last December, Ahmadinejad's allies were humiliated in municipal elections, with some reformists gaining seats. He was dealt another blow when a rival, former President Hashemi Rafsanjani, was chosen as chairman of the Assembly of Experts, a powerful clerical body, over a close Ahmadinejad ally.

Conservatives who once supported the president have increasingly joined in the criticism, saying that he needs to pay more attention to domestic issues and that his inflammatory rhetoric has needlessly stoked tensions with the West.

Actually, this probably deserves its own thread...