Is GT6's AI actually as unrealistic as we think it is?

Ok, my posts have numerous likes on them, does that prove that I am more right? What do likes prove exactly? Because I have a lot more of them. You didn't hear me pointing that out as some sort of support for my argument.

If I were to argue with your logic, it would be along the lines of "Well I tried this and it did not happen, therefore you're wrong". Then you would try and explain in more detail and I would just say "No, you're wrong". Then you would offer to provide in detail evidence and I would just reply with "Doesn't matter, you'd still be wrong anyway".
 
Lewis_Hamilton_
Ok, my posts have numerous likes on them, does that prove that I am more right? What do likes prove exactly? Because I have more of them.

If I were to argue with your logic, it would be along the lines of "Well I tried this and it did not happen, therefore you're wrong". Then you would try and explain in more detail and I would just say "No, you're wrong".
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I value the OP as its his topic.

I said the member who started the thread likes my contribution. You can point out at any time the post where you have proved the REASON it happens, but you haven't accomplished that and I have already proved that your reasoning is wrong.

You can say whatever you like, not my place to police your post. I can still say Ive shown you are wrong and I've not seen you show anything to prove your reasoning, maybe you are still confused between it happening and why it happens, and doesn't look like you are going to get it any time soon.
 
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There is already a video at the beginiing of the thread showing an example of the AI letting off to let the player go by. It has been explained by several people when and why this happens, I have also had an input towards that. I have said that it does not matter whether it is on a corner or not, the AI will still do it even on a straight and it is because of rubber banding, and then posted proof. It's a simple as that.

Maybe it is you who is having a hard time comprehending things?

You are also saying I have not posted proof. I've told you I am willing to do so, in great detail, and you turned around and said it wouldn't prove anything. Nobody can win against your changing logic.
 
That doesn't prove the reason why it happens that ONLY proves it does happen, but nobody denies it happens, your going in circles, what is it you need, the last word? lolol

Comprehension? How hard is it for you to understand the difference between showing it happening and the REASON WHY it happens, are you really going to say you've proved your reasoning? That's a JOKE.
 
How does a video not show how and why it is happening? How do your pictures show how and why it is happening? Double standards galore.
 
Lewis_Hamilton_
Ok, my posts have numerous likes on them, does that prove that I am more right? What do likes prove exactly? Because I have a lot more of them. You didn't hear me pointing that out as some sort of support for my argument.

If I were to argue with your logic, it would be along the lines of "Well I tried this and it did not happen, therefore you're wrong". Then you would try and explain in more detail and I would just say "No, you're wrong". Then you would offer to provide in detail evidence and I would just reply with "Doesn't matter, you'd still be wrong anyway".
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Given that the purpose of the thread is to question if the AI is realistic or, "as unrealistic as we think it is", I would say based on the videos you provided you couldn't be more right if you tried. If the stuff you illustrated happened in 1 or 2 races out of a hundred it would simply be an exception to a general rule. But the fact is that it happens on many tracks in many cars and is the rule rather than the exception. Even if it can be shown that it doesn't happen every single time it's largely irrelevant to the question at hand.
 
Lewis_Hamilton_
How does a video not show how and why it is happening? How do your pictures show how and why it is happening? Double standards galore.
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Because a video is incapable of showing All the perameters that may be involved, it can ONLY show IF it occurs or NOT, nothing more with any level of certainty, as clearly the reasoning you came up with is wrong.
 
Pictures can be manipulated to show something in your favour a lot more than video can, but somehow you are just unable to figure that out. If a video with multiple angles can't explain anything, then what can? Nothing it seems.

I guess when Sky F1 and the commentators run back over race highlights and explain why and how someone was able to make a pass, or how and why there was a crash, they are doing it for nothing but those video clips explain nothing.

By your logic, your pictures and explainations earlier are 100% invalid because they cannot show why things are happening and therefore, you are wrong too.
 
The pics don't show any reasoning at all, neither do videos, they only show if in a situation it occurs or not. My pics simply show it not occurring in the situation you say it should.

A picture or video of a man running down the street with a purse in his hands doesn't prove he stole a purse.
 
It does if you see him stealing it in the first place. That's what CCTV is for. You know you are dismissing virtually ever single factual and documentary video ever created with your logic. All those science and nature shows explaining and showing why things happen are an apparent waste of time. You are reaching way too far.

This is now way off topic.
 
Lewis_Hamilton_
It does if you see him stealing it in the first place. That's what CCTV is for.
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Not really, you could be watching him take the purse back from a woman who stole it off an old lady, the man is just running to bring it back to her. Good Samaritan, not a thief, but you jumped to conclusions again.

The science and nature shows show you what's happening in situations, but the commentary is providing the reasoning that comes from a lot of research over many decades, not simply reviewing the video they intend to show. Unless the video is of the scientific testing that's been done to draw conclusions. None of witch applies to your videos.
 
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Right, so if you see someone running out of a shop with fistfuls of jewelery in his hands with robbery alarms screeching and the shop owner shouting "Stop that Thief!", you would give him the benefit of the doubt that he may actually be a Samaritan. If the Samaritan in your scenario was just that, he wouldn't be running from the woman, he would be holding on to it securely and getting someone to call the police while he makes a citizens arrest himself.

You are trying too hard, let it go.

The thread is about whether the AI is as unrealistic as we think, it's been proven that it is. The "why" does not matter because you cannot change the AI's behaviour without changing the game's coding, something only PD can do, that is all that matters. You will never understand the cause of their behaviour if you dismiss every type of evidence that can be made available, it is by that logic, impossible to work out why the AI does what it does, even though we all know why it actually happens - to let the player win.

It really is as simple as that, you do not need to try and over think the reason and look deep into philsophies, it does it so we can win. End of.
 
Lewis_Hamilton_
Right, so if you see someone running out of a shop with fistfuls of jewelery in his hands with robbery alarms screeching and the shop owner shouting "Stop that Thief!", you would give him the benefit of the doubt that he may actually be a Samaritan. If the Samaritan in your scenario was just that, he wouldn't be running from the woman, he would be holding on to it securely and getting someone to call the police while he makes a citizens arrest himself.

You are trying too hard, let it go.

The thread is about whether the AI is as unrealistic as we think, it's been proven that it is. The "why" does not matter because you cannot change the AI's behaviour without changing the game's coding, something only PD can do, that is all that matters. You will never understand the cause of their behaviour if you dismiss every type of evidence that can be made available, it is by that logic, impossible to work out why the AI does what it does, even though we all know why it actually happens - to let the player win.
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Going in circles man, you must like the dizzy game. Even in your situation, the video is not enough to convict him it will be brought before a judge and jurry who will go over more than just what's in the video, but even then it won't show WHY he robbed the jewelry only if it was or was not him. ;) So no "reasoning" was shown in your example.

The "why" beyond the "so the user can win" may not be important to you, but honestly I don't care what is or is not important to you.

IMO understanding as much as possible about the "why" will allow me to minimize it occurring as much as possible.
 
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That's cool, I couldn't give two hoots about your opinion on whether I find the reasons important or not, it doesn't change the facts, and you will drive yourself crazy trying to figure things out the way that you are. It is what it is.
Remember your post earlier saying "That's life", well you should take that approach to GT6's AI, because it's not going to change no matter how deep you look into it. Like life, just deal with it and concentrate on getting the best you can out of it.
 
That's your opinion, your intitled to it. I'm allowed to have my own opinion, and so far I benefit from my testing. I enjoy testing stuff like this out, the process is entertaining for me. What may frustrate and make you crazy is fun to me. Different strokes for different folks.
 
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Just a suggestion - You should give more time before hitting the reply button, because you have been going back through your posts and editing them substantially, making people's replies look out of context, when they have been replying directly to what you said previously.
 
Lewis_Hamilton_
Just a suggestion - You should give more time before hitting the reply button, because you have been going back through your posts and editing them substantially, making people's replies look out of context, when they have been replying directly to what you said previously.
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Good to know, noted.
 
Lewis_Hamilton_
Right, so if you see someone running out of a shop with fistfuls of jewelery in his hands with robbery alarms screeching and the shop owner shouting "Stop that Thief!", you would give him the benefit of the doubt that he may actually be a Samaritan. If the Samaritan in your scenario was just that, he wouldn't be running from the woman, he would be holding on to it securely and getting someone to call the police while he makes a citizens arrest himself.

You are trying too hard, let it go.

The thread is about whether the AI is as unrealistic as we think, it's been proven that it is. The "why" does not matter because you cannot change the AI's behaviour without changing the game's coding, something only PD can do, that is all that matters. You will never understand the cause of their behaviour if you dismiss every type of evidence that can be made available, it is by that logic, impossible to work out why the AI does what it does, even though we all know why it actually happens - to let the player win.

It really is as simple as that, you do not need to try and over think the reason and look deep into philsophies, it does it so we can win. End of.
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You have the patience of a saint:cheers:
 
GT6OuTLaW
Nice Trrrrrrrolling Johnny



The parade is April 1st in San Fran
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timetostopposting.jpg


Honestly, do you ever bother attempting to read what others post? Because it seems to me that you like to misinterpret other's posts in such a way to make them easier for your illogical and nonsensical rebuttals, which consists of how they misinterpreted what you were saying and what you actually meant (i.e. moving the goalposts.) Then when you're really starting to scrape the bottom for responses you start accusing others of trolling and being incapable of accepting other's opinions (lol irony) while at the same time dismissing everything that has been said and trying to appear as the victim of trolling.

Do you own a mirror?
 
GT6Outlaw you simply acted blindly in front of the facts. You said it may not be the reason, but in many other circumstances the AI acts this way again. They slow down for no reason, and you started an off topic discussion. Get back to topic and then tell us what you think about the AI rubber banding shown in videos, otherwise you are the one trolling hard there.

Edit: But I think that the AI in the seasonal events, especially nurburgring, is quiet fast and risky, which is a good sign. I think we can see the best AI skills if we position ourself in the first place early and keep beeing close to the second AI as they won't have rubber banding.This way I have experienced some good AI. Maybe I would post a footage and show they actually aren't slow under some circumstances, but still weak to good human drivers. Don't get me wrong, I know some good games with good AI. I own Grid 2 and in AI to the max, they are actually fast, but still easy win for me. So human skills for driving will never be beaten unless extremely powerfull console to handle many many codes for the AI.
 
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i see some are cool without looking under the surface of the situation. That is fine, its also fine for you to dissagree, but get lost telling me what to do. I can look as deep as I like into the reason the Ai do what they do. I am of the opinion if you know exactly why the Ai do something, then the situation should be recreateable by aligning all the triggers, Scientific testing, not the BS methods you guys seem to use...... HOWEVER the lot of you are lost because you haven't a clue and act as if you do, then some jerk comes around and doesn't buy into the BS sold around here spots the flaws in the logic and questions the conclusions. Oh oh, the all stars are not really all that bright like a star, more like BS Salesmen...

So far when your scenarios fails to play out as you say they should and as I proved them wrong already. The attacks come out by the lot of Trolls as seen above....

Simply put...

This

Lewis_Hamilton_
The AI lifts whenever you are within a certain radius of them, it doesn't matter where you and the AI car actually are
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is WRONG. No amount of trash talking me is going to make it any less wrong....

No, it does not happen like this at all, this is completely wrong and a BS sale......

And I've proved it if YOU guys like it or not. BUT its clear when somebody new comes in and disproves the BS getting sold, some of you throw a fit.

PS, practice what you preach bud, I already said 12mph speed loss flat out on a flat straight is crazy, however I don't dissagree rubberbanding in GT is very exagerated, but that is not what I'm talking about at all, are you confused? If AI cars are supposed to be lifting whenever I am near, and it doesn't matter where we are on the track (as lewis says)

Lewis_Hamilton_
The AI lifts whenever you are within a certain radius of them, it doesn't matter where you and the AI car actually are
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How come THEY DONT???????????????? However, keep your eyes shut... Keep dodging.

Johnnypenso
Sorry, don't get the joke
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Well its not clear on the surface, like the Ai situation

You Johnny are the Saint ;)

I'm thinking I'll just standardize my response to


"""""
Lewis_Hamilton_
The AI lifts whenever you are within a certain radius of them, it doesn't matter where you and the AI car actually are
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No that's wrong. Its not as simple as that, even though you would like it to be""""
 
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Just as an aside, could the 12 mph discrepancy on straights be down to GT's mental slipstreams and nothing to do with rubber banding? :P
 
If you cross the first sector line below 48 seconds behind the leader in the new nurb seasonal, you will notice that the ai do the entire race slower. The ai moves over when it shouldn't and turns in on you more than the original ai. Complete disregard for where the player is in regards to the ai. The new rubber banding is out of control. I am doing this with a gt300 car right now to make it a challenge. The is350 gt300 base model @ 600pp. I made a front damper adjustment and picked up ten seconds around the whole circuit. It was a 6:40.XXX. Yet...I'm still finishing about six seconds behind the leader. So...I gained ten seconds with one click and finish within about two seconds of that six second or so margin that was with the old, ten second slower setting hahaha. You can't help but laugh.
 
GT6OuTLaW
i see some are cool without looking under the surface of the situation. That is fine, its also fine for you to dissagree, but get lost telling me what to do. I can look as deep as I like into the reason the Ai do what they do. I am of the opinion if you know exactly why the Ai do something, then the situation should be recreateable by aligning all the triggers, Scientific testing, not the BS methods you guys seem to use...... HOWEVER the lot of you are lost because you haven't a clue and act as if you do, then some jerk comes around and doesn't buy into the BS sold around here spots the flaws in the logic and questions the conclusions. Oh oh, the all stars are not really all that bright like a star, more like BS Salesmen...

So far when your scenarios fails to play out as you say they should and as I proved them wrong already. The attacks come out by the lot of Trolls as seen above....

Simply put...

This



is WRONG. No amount of trash talking me is going to make it any less wrong....

No, it does not happen like this at all, this is completely wrong and a BS sale......

And I've proved it if YOU guys like it or not. BUT its clear when somebody new comes in and disproves the BS getting sold, some of you throw a fit.

PS, practice what you preach bud, I already said 12mph speed loss flat out on a flat straight is crazy, however I don't dissagree rubberbanding in GT is very exagerated, but that is not what I'm talking about at all, are you confused? If AI cars are supposed to be lifting whenever I am near, and it doesn't matter where we are on the track (as lewis says)



How come THEY DONT???????????????? However, keep your eyes shut... Keep dodging.



Well its not clear on the surface, like the Ai situation

You Johnny are the Saint ;)

I'm thinking I'll just standardize my response to


"""""

No that's wrong. Its not as simple as that, even though you would like it to be""""
Click to expand...
Chill out, otherwise I'll get the mods. Reply to the comment, not the commenter.
 
Call them then, your not one dont act like you are. A lot of BS going on in here, singling me out is just a little more.

332i
If you cross the first sector line below 48 seconds behind the leader in the new nurb seasonal, you will notice that the ai do the entire race slower.
Click to expand...

Finally somebody makes a great contribution, something tangible.

If your above 48 seconds in the first sector they drive the full race differently. Meaning sector times might play a large factor in weather or not the Ai dumbs down. Little messed up getting an advantage for being fast lol maybe I'm just slow enough for them to not dumb down lol. Have you noticed that behavior in other races where a line in the first sector time can be drawn and if crossed to fast triggers different Ai behavior for the rest of the race?

Also IF you take it slow on the first sector and cross above 48 seconds, can you then put the hammer down without their behavior changing?
 
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