Is GT7 fast becoming the worst of the GT Series?

[Samcastor]

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't looking forward to this but without significant updates to the physics simulation and FFB... I dunno if I'm wasting my money on PSVR2. If F1 2023 or a future ACC update takes advantage of it, I'll get it and keep my fingers crossed that GT7 improves.

There are big differences among these though. ACC and F1 focus on a very very limited subsection of cars. If GT7 gets complete PSVR integration, it will be the most immersive and diverse VR sim out there and the things that it does better than ACC (presentation, graphics and variety) will be able to shine through.

 

[HGHTCH]

How exactly did they move backwards? other than some glitches that have been happening, and the lobby stuff that clearly is missing stuff.
they are doing exactly the same stuff, and enhanced it also with the different season tiers etc.

Are you saying GT7's online experience is a step forward from GTS? Even with the lobbies as they are? Personally, I find them buggier than GTS, both lobbies and racing, the seasons are nice, but they are just an extension of daily races and GTS had the same sort of thing.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Ive played over 100 hours and I havent even finished all the menus yet… so I dont understand some of the content stuff. this is not saying nothing is wrong and should eventually be fixed updated but im cutting all devs slack when we know what the state of game dev has been for the past two years, this game isnt the only game that has launched with certain issues or things needing to be added, you can look at games like halo etc with their own issues, ACC which still has issues on console etc.

Game is not one of the worst GT games by far and quite frankly its huge hyperbole to go that route.
there is no middle ground in the commentary with the game, does it have areas to improve def? But pointing to 70 dollars is just reductionist at this point, when you would have the same complaints if it was 60.

I honestly dont see anyway someone has been screwed monetarily…

None of the issues people complaining about are core issues with the game vs things that will get updated etc.

Is the AI not a core issue? Or the penalty system / SR calculations for online races? Or the problems with lobbies making leagues very difficult to impossible to host? Or the PP system tuning tuning races into finding the next exploit?

GT7 has some very big fundamental flaws and I would really like to know why AI, Sport and lobbies went backwards compared to GT Sport. Sport mode has only been going backwards since release and is still far away from matching what we had in GT Sport, which needed to be overhauled as well. Lobbies have been going backwards since GT5 :/

Which do you consider the worst GT game?

 

[Scaff]

If GT7 gets complete PSVR integration, it will be the most immersive and diverse VR sim

Only if you pretend PC's don't exist.

 

[platocplx]

Is the AI not a core issue? Or the penalty system / SR calculations for online races? Or the problems with lobbies making leagues very difficult to impossible to host? Or the PP system tuning tuning races into finding the next exploit?

GT7 has some very big fundamental flaws and I would really like to know why AI, Sport and lobbies went backwards compared to GT Sport. Sport mode has only been going backwards since release and is still far away from matching what we had in GT Sport, which needed to be overhauled as well. Lobbies have been going backwards since GT5 :/

Which do you consider the worst GT game?

GT6 to me and also none of what you are saying more indicates going backwards when you are saying sport needing an overhaul(which is a totally different discussion because now you have a totally diff vision for the game). When it comes to Lobbies clearly they know they have issues, hell, look at the known issues list.

AI is a mixed bag but damn near every racer has issues with AI either from rubberbanding or some of the stuff where they may just keep a racing line and that’s it etc also when you keep going way back to ps3 era idk what to tell you lol.

Like I said from what sport ended to what GT7 is now there isn’t so much as backwards vs a similar trajectory and GT7 today is missing lobby features with PD stating albeit vaguely they have plans for lobbies.

The PP system will have people finding exploits and holes plugged for a while it’s damn near impossible to find every issue with your model during development, hell in my line of work I’m cleaning up data models all the time when you have unexpected results.

Like I get having gripes, I can admit there are issues but the hyperbolic nature of some of the discourse over the game is not really constructive and leans deeply into people having all this nostalgia for things past and totally ignoring the advances made in these kinds of games and facing the reality that either the direction of a series isn’t for them any more or embrace and constructively go forward with what is realistic for not only this game but a myriad of other games(I see these same convos when it comes to RPGS, FPS games etc).

And what really I see is that PD will enhance the Lobbies to match up with what you can do with custom games today, work to stabilize online, refine their PP model, add more content in the various areas of the game etc.

I know it’s popular discourse in certain spaces for people to pile on the game for whatever reason.

But I’m just one guy but I’m realistic about this stuff and from my perspective it’s not as dire as some make it seem and the future for GT is pretty bright to me esp looking at the car racing genre as a whole.

 

[Samus]

Like I said from what sport ended to what GT7 is now there isn’t so much as backwards vs a similar trajectory and GT7 today is missing lobby features with PD stating albeit vaguely they have plans for lobbies.

How is that not going backwards? Lobbies are objectively worse in GT7 than they were in GTS. How does that happen?

 

[platocplx]

Are you saying GT7's online experience is a step forward from GTS? Even with the lobbies as they are? Personally, I find them buggier than GTS, both lobbies and racing, the seasons are nice, but they are just an extension of daily races and GTS had the same sort of thing.

How is that not going backwards? Lobbies are objectively worse in GT7 than they were in GTS. How does that happen?

Because going backwards would indicate they aren’t planning or won’t be planning any enhancements, the total absence of a feature and not plans to bring it is diffrent than a planned enhancement.

 

[Samus]

Because going backwards would indicate they aren’t planning or won’t be planning any enhancements, the total absence of a feature and not plans to bring it is diffrent than a planned enhancement.

Riiiight. It's not gone backwards as long as they're planning to update it? What kinda weird ass logic is that? The lobbies have gone backwards. That's just the objective truth right now. The fact they might get back to where they were doesn't change that. That's like saying I haven't got less money than I had yesterday after buying groceries because I'll be getting paid in two weeks.

 

[05XR8]

I’m not too sure about advances in GT7. The big graphics thing people talk about are the ray tracing. I have a PS4 slim. So, it’s not doing much for those of us on the old system. Hopefully, I’ll get a PS5 and see how much better the graphics look, but that’s to be expected.
There are no advances in AI. Kaz said the AI behave more human like. Something like that. I can say he’s truthful with that. The AI do act like himans that divebomb and make pit maneuvers.
The weather advancements? We’re not seeing any type of real time weather according to region. PD did the star maps thing already. Cloud forming? Clouds do look much better. However, there’s nothing ground breaking that changed the racing game genre. Other games have been doing this for a while.
Track surfaces. PD had the data during GT Sport and we waited a further four years for it to be used in this game. However, we’re still getting The feel of a coarse surface and changes in surface construction at real world tracks.

Advancements in Tyre physics? I haven’t read anything new from PD about that.

Sounds have improved.

Not much ground breaking being made in GT7. It’s more that they’re finally using the technology that’s been available for a long time.

 

[platocplx]

Riiiight. It's not gone backwards as long as they're planning to update it? What kinda weird ass logic is that? The lobbies have gone backwards. That's just the objective truth right now. The fact they might get back to where they were doesn't change that. That's like saying I haven't got less money than I had yesterday after buying groceries because I'll be getting paid in two weeks.

But that still does not mean the game has gone backwards…. there are are issues that need to be resolved. If you want to say you don’t like the current state sure. But going backwards is literally a total permanent reversal of what was there. It’s not like they said yeah this is it for lobbies. that’s going backwards.

 

[Samus]

But going backwards is literally a total permanent reversal of what was there

In what universe is that the definition of going backwards?

 

[Samcastor]

Only if you pretend PC's don't exist.

The comparison is only relevant on platforms where you can play GT or opt to play the alternatives obviously.

 

[platocplx]

In what universe is that the definition of going backwards?

If they are undoing what they did from the previous game. That is going backwards.
They are not doing that.

Another going backwards example removing a feature that was there and now it’s gone that’s going backwards.

Going backwards promising said feature and reversing course and not planning on implementing it.

Putting your car in reverse and not moving forward. Going backwards.

 

[Scaff]

The comparison is only relevant on platforms where you can play GT or opt to play the alternatives obviously.

That would be goalposts moving then, as your post didn't include any such qualifier at all.

 

[Samus]

If they are undoing what they did from the previous game. That is going backwards.
They are not doing that.

Except they literally have.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

Let's be honest... In terms of gameplay, features (considering the time of release as well, obviously), etc. GT7 is definitely not the worst game.

The title for worst GT series for me is between GT5 or GT6. But even those two games have some things where GT7 could clearly learn from.

It can definitely however, and without any doubts in my mind, be considered the most disappointing game of the series. The hype for it was bigger than every other game by a long-shot, almost 9 years between it and GT6, released on a brand new console and with claims by their creators that it would be a compilation of the past and future games.

Though despite all of this, I still have faith that in the coming updates this game can be the best of the franchise. It has all the conditions to be so. It's all on PDs hands and they have to listen to their playerbase on some of the bigger issues this game has.

 

[Samcastor]

That would be goalposts moving then, as your post didn't include any such qualifier at all.

Sure. Which game is the most varied sim on PC with VR support?

 

[platocplx]

Let's be honest... In terms of gameplay, features (considering the time of release as well, obviously), etc. GT7 is definitely not the worst game.

The title for worst GT series for me is between GT5 or GT6. But even those two games have some things where GT7 could clearly learn from.

It can definitely however, and without any doubts in my mind, be considered the most disappointing game of the series. The hype for it was bigger than every other game by a long-shot, almost 9 years between it and GT6, released on a brand new console and with claims by their creators that it would be a compilation of the past and future games.

Though despite all of this, I still have faith that in the coming updates this game can be the best of the franchise. It has all the conditions to be so. It's all on PDs hands and they have to listen to their playerbase on some of the bigger issues this game has.

I think this is fair if you feel disappointed with how it launched without certain things you are looking for. That’s reasonable to me.

Except they literally have.

They didn’t undo anything yet. They have failed to launch with certain features but there is no undoing of features that were present going on unless you are in the dev room and know this as a fact.

 

[Samus]

They didn’t undo anything yet. They have failed to launch with certain features

I'm done. This is bizarre.

 

[Scaff]

Sure. Which game is the most varied sim on PC with VR support?

Assetto Corsa, AMS, and RFactor 2 all support VR and all have mod support, and given that every mod, be it track or car is also supported, all three of them offer far more in terms of varied content than GT7 will ever manage to put out.

AC leads the three of them if you want a benchmark in that regard, my current install has 1,611 cars and 657 tracks (that's track locations, not layouts, layouts increases that count significantly), I'm a long way from having every mod out for AC as well, you want dynamic weather and Time of Day on all of those as well, perfectly possible.

 

[NotThePrez]

Assetto Corsa, AMS, and RFactor 2 all support VR and all have mod support, and given that every mod, be it track or car is also supported, all three of them offer far more in terms of varied content than GT7 will ever manage to put out.

AC leads the three of them if you want a benchmark in that regard, my current install has 1,611 cars and 657 tracks (that's track locations, not layouts, layouts increases that count significantly), I'm a long way from having every mod out for AC as well, you want dynamic weather and Time of Day on all of those as well, perfectly possible.

Cries in desktop that can't even install TF2 without Blue Screening

 

[sonnyboychris]

Ive played over 100 hours and I havent even finished all the menus yet… so I dont understand some of the content stuff. this is not saying nothing is wrong and should eventually be fixed updated but im cutting all devs slack when we know what the state of game dev has been for the past two years, this game isnt the only game that has launched with certain issues or things needing to be added, you can look at games like halo etc with their own issues, ACC which still has issues on console etc.

Game is not one of the worst GT games by far and quite frankly its huge hyperbole to go that route.
there is no middle ground in the commentary with the game, does it have areas to improve def? But pointing to 70 dollars is just reductionist at this point, when you would have the same complaints if it was 60.

I honestly dont see anyway someone has been screwed monetarily…

None of the issues people complaining about are core issues with the game vs things that will get updated etc.

I've played just as many hours, if not more. I can list a few things that the game was missing at launch...

1. the inability to sort multi-player rooms by population. why am I getting 2 pages of rooms with 1-2 players?
2. the inability to sell the cars you purchase
   1. the inability to sell duplicate cars
3. BOP was a no-show at launch
4. game still doesn’t allow multiplayer hosts the ability to change tracks without starting a new lobby
5. at launch, you couldn't tell what the weather was for a track/race.
   1. the inability to purchase tires without completely exiting a race
6. weather for daily races
7. the inability to run daily races more often... you can't even cycle between race types without waiting 7-15+ minutes...
8. the AI is still utter trash but they showed us an AI system that's not really related to GT but MIGHT be available sometime within the next 1-8 years.... terrific /s.

The game was in development for 5 years and it lacks the most basic online functionality at launch/post-launch and it's missing features that were already in Sport. PD is one of the most heralded dev's in the industry, backed by arguably the biggest company in gaming... They aren't above constructive criticism.

What makes the omissions above (and many others not mentioned) so glaring is that they spent time/energy on deceiving the gaming media and it's consumers with it's MTX tactics. Maybe they should put that same development effort into the core gameplay systems. FFB is still trash with my DD-Pro... That's another core gameplay mechanic that's unfinished/trash.

You may not be able to understand why people feel cheated and/or pessimistic about GT7/PD (due to their refusal to communicate) but they've earned the worst meta-critic score in the history of the PlayStation franchise. It's a well deserved blemish on their resume and speaks to how frustrated people are.

GT7 does a lot right and some ways better than the competition. As they should... It's their 7th game over multiple decades with a **** ton of support from Sony. They ONLY MAKE ONE GAME, so it makes everything above that much more crazy lol.

 

[platocplx]

I've played just as many hours, if not more. I can list a few things that the game was missing at launch...

1. the inability to sort multi-player rooms by population. why am I getting 2 pages of rooms with 1-2 players?
2. the inability to sell the cars you purchase
3. BOP was a no-show at launch
4. game still doesn’t allow multiplayer hosts the ability to change tracks without starting a new lobby
5. at launch, you couldn't tell what the weather was for a track/race.
   1. the inability to purchase tires without completely exiting a race
6. weather for daily races
7. the ability to run daily races more often... you can't even cycle between race types without waiting 7-15+ minutes...

The game was in development for 5 years and it lacks the most basic online functionality at launch, post-launch and it's missing features that were already in Sport. PD is one of the most heralded dev's in the industry, backed by arguably the biggest company in gaming... They aren't above constructive criticism.

What makes the omissions above (and many others not mentioned) so glaring is that they spent time/energy on deceiving the gaming media and it's consumers with it's MTX tactics. Maybe they should put that same development effort into the core gameplay systems. FFB is still trash with my DD-Pro... That's another core gameplay mechanic that's unfinished/trash.

Some of these things you conflate at launch, then some stuff is more a personal preference and some actually legit. But this is all Over the place. And I actually like the DD pro in the game. So guess we just differ in opinion here and the MTX is so innocuous at this point I don’t even notice it. So idk seems more like you don’t like certain direction than it lacking something across the board which then just boils down to your own opinion I guess.

 

[sonnyboychris]

Some of these things you conflate at launch, then some stuff is more a personal preference and some actually legit. But this is all Over the place. And I actually like the DD pro in the game. So guess we just differ in opinion here and the MTX is so innocuous at this point I don’t even notice it. So idk seems more like you don’t like certain direction than it lacking something across the board which then just boils down to your own opinion I guess.

I'll keep it really simple this time. It's missing CORE MULTIPLAYER FUNCTIONALITY that's been present in gaming for a decade now... That's inexcusable.

Another example: You can't change tracks within a room that you're hosting, you have to completely exit out of the created room and pick a new course. That's absurd... It's absurd that these small things were overlooked and it's equally absurd that you're describing basic online functionality as a "certain direction". LOL. If CoD didn't allow you to change maps within a lobby, Infinity Ward would be laughed at but Polyphony/Kaz is above such criticism. I'm sure they were too busy creating Legendary Cars for $60/piece to be bothered with the lobby system lol.

If you choose to ignore and handwave the bad aspects of the game, that's your choice. But don't speak as if they don't exist or minimize them, just say that you don't care and keep it moving. I've given praise and I've pointed out the bad with this game and both things can be true.

Also. If you think FFB is good with GT7, you clearly haven't played any other games with good FFB. It's vague, numb and non-communicative... If you spent $600+ for a DD-Pro and are satisfied with how PD is using that device, then you must be ok with being fleeced because that's what they did to you. Go try ACC, it's free on PS+ this month. Go see what real FFB feels like, you don't need to be an advanced sim (which GT7 isn't) to provide good FFB. They can leave the hardcore difficulty/sim aspect to ACC but at least give us some feeling in the wheel.

It isn't about me not liking the direction of the game, it's simply inferior to it's peers in a lot of ways. Hopefully PD fixes these issues but the game shouldn't have shipped with the issues I've stated. Not after a 5 year gestation period and the amount of hand-holding and coddling that Sony notoriously gives to it's 1st party devs. But to that point, maybe Sony is to blame for this (specifically the mtx focus) and not PD.

 

[platocplx]

I'll keep it really simple this time. It's missing CORE MULTIPLAYER FUNCTIONALITY that's been present in gaming for a decade now... That's inexcusable.

If you choose to ignore and handwave the bad aspects of the game, that's your choice. But don't speak as if they don't exist or minimize them, just say that you don't care and keep it moving. I've given praise and I've pointed out the bad with this game both things can be true.

Also. If you think FFB is good with GT7, you clearly haven't played any other games with good FFB. It's vague, numb and non-communicative compared to ACC. You don't need to be an advanced sim (which GT7 isn't) to provide good FFB.

It isn't about me not liking the direction of the game, it's simply inferior to it's peers in some ways. Hopefully PD fixes these issues but the game shouldn't have shipped with many of the issues I've stated. Not after a 5 year gestation period.

Again that’s your preference there. Lobbies need work but when you are jumping the shark in places idk what to say. Do you. All games that have shipped in the pandemic have had things lacking esp when it comes to online which is hard to test remotely. Not really ignoring anything but when you are conflating stuff you would like vs what shipped, planned and or was based on the last entry which is where you look at where things are today you clearly want a diff online exp when reality it’s gonna be what sport was and evolved off of that.

 

[sonnyboychris]

Again that’s your preference there. Lobbies need work but when you are jumping the shark in places idk what to say. Do you. All games that have shipped in the pandemic have had things lacking esp when it comes to online which is hard to test remotely. Not really ignoring anything but when you are conflating stuff you would like vs what shipped, planned and or was based on the last entry which is where you look at where things are today you clearly want a diff online exp when reality it’s gonna be what sport was and evolved off of that.

We're talking about features that are INDUSTRY STANDARDS and you minimize it to (paraphrasing) being personal preference. Jesus, are you paid by PD or something? I've purchased many games over the course of the pandemic and GT7 is the only one missing STANDARD multi-player features.

Do me favor, list another PlayStation game released during the pandemic that doesn't allow the host of a lobby to change the track/map... Just list one, that's it. I'm sure you'll ignore this request because it just shows your argument is BS.

 

[KaiB]

My opinion about the subject is that Gt7 have the best base of all GT games, gameplay being the most important aspect.

Regarding all the bugs and missing features, lets hope PD solve the issues, lobbys are the priority i guess cause its a short term issue and can become a long term issue that can ruin the communitys that keep the game alive.

But its just normal nowadays, since i started to play online games on PC that this happens, online features and the complexity behind this modern games just make this a standart for every game focused on online and long term evolution.

Its just odd for many console players that are no used to this reality, i started to play MMorpgs since i was a teenager, that was between 20/30 years ago on PC, its just normal, new content new bugs.., now people use DLC back in the day we called it updates or expansions and with them all the problems attached.

The most common problem we had with new content was client issues, basically people couldnt even log to the game in first days, no one died that i know, im still alive XD

People and internet this days its all about the drama.

 

[Scaff]

online which is hard to test remotely

Wut!

 

[platocplx]

We're talking about features that are INDUSTRY STANDARDS and you minimize it to (paraphrasing) being personal preference. Jesus, are you paid by PD or something? I've purchased many games over the course of the pandemic and GT7 is the only one missing STANDARD multi-player features.

Do me favor, list another PlayStation game released during the pandemic that doesn't allow the host of a lobby to change the track/map... Just list one, that's it. I'm sure you'll ignore this request because it just shows your argument is BS.

Huh so on-line issues of varying degrees in games during the pandemic is just made up? Like there are tons of examples you’re calling out something so specific when clearly they have outlined they are planning to update lobbies etc and that was clearly one thing that they admitted needed more work and updates. Hell look at the known issues they KNOW lobbies and online needs work lol. So you litigating at launch issues when across the board games have had various online issues it’s just weird.

 

[ICEYOU3]

I’ll get a PS5 and see how much better the graphics look, but that’s to be expected.

Like most PS5 owners here I have both versions, the only real difference you'll see is a difference in Framerate. The Dualsense alone will make the upgrade worth it however, I've never felt so connected with the road using a controller before. It's addictive.