You didn't.
The person leading GTS and GT7 sounds is the same person who did Forza 1-6. PD poached him.
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Is GT7 fast becoming the worst of the GT Series?
- Thread starter Tuono_GT
- 882 comments
- 101,171 views
GT7 is truly a Game-as-a-service. A framework in which new content can be pushed out over 2, 3 or 4 years. I think of it as the Destiny of driving games.
What is really strange is that I suspect it takes minimal effort from PD to drop new content. All of the assets are pretty much there. Adding new events is surely just a case of adding the required dataset with an associated minimal UI update (thumbnail for example), yet we haven't received much yet.
One feature I would love is dynamic weather in Sport mode. I wonder if there is a technical reason why they can't achieve this. Most underused feature in the game in my opinion. Some of the single player events featuring weather are this game at its peak.
What is really strange is that I suspect it takes minimal effort from PD to drop new content. All of the assets are pretty much there. Adding new events is surely just a case of adding the required dataset with an associated minimal UI update (thumbnail for example), yet we haven't received much yet.
One feature I would love is dynamic weather in Sport mode. I wonder if there is a technical reason why they can't achieve this. Most underused feature in the game in my opinion. Some of the single player events featuring weather are this game at its peak.
- 2
- Italy
I wouldn’t call it a great game but I’m having fun with it. I played all GT games since 4, which is still my favorite. I would put this one on par with the rest of them but GT4.
Clearly an extremely subjective point of view. But aren’t they all?
Clearly an extremely subjective point of view. But aren’t they all?
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- 3,744
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
@Sven Jurgens brings up a good point.Why wait. I'm having plenty fun with Forza 7 already. Got the steelbook edition for dirt cheap (2nd hand buy) and it obviously runs great on Series X. By the time Forza 8 comes out I should be used to Forza's handling model quite well
Great single player campaign with a lot of amazing tracks!
Many don't have the PS5 yet. With GT7 being so lacklustre, I may as well wait it out to see if I buy the PS5 or the Xbox.
GT has enough cars to have a different 1 make race, every week, for the next 5 years, If you factor car/track combos, they have enough content for more than three unique races, every week, for the next 5 years.
Sport Mode for the Online folks and add a Custom Race for the single player folks. It could be completely automated selection too so they woudl not even have to work at it.
Two key differences there.
1. Destiny was sold as such. GT7 was not.
2. Destiny devs actually communicate with players and give roadmaps of content, a key part of GaaS.
GT7 is not going to last 2-3-4 years actually making PD money without them managing this. You can't keep large numbers interested with "Eh, we'll do some updates for the next couple of years. What's in them? Dunno. Please look forward to them"
If GT7 was a great game well I would still be playing this game, and PD should have done and planed more at the start of the game. Instead we get drip fed with thing for the game over time which is totally wrong from previous numbered games, them things should be already in the game.
You say but its as good as I expected but to me it's definitely not what I expected from a numbered game, and I expected more content from other numbered games designed. Mate this is not a true numbered game from PD all it is a GT Sport type game, and PD has gone well away what a numbered game should be about.
From your other post you said I think you had to grind more in past games imho, no you did not in fact you have to grind a lot more in GT7.
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- 16,005
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
- 1,464
- Indonesia
GT is just overrated in general.
Something that GT4 started that you're only the one who is given penalty, no matter what, in its Mission Races.
Reminder that GT5 was the game that pad out itself with separating A-Spec and B-Spec. GT6 was the game that promises everything without fulfilling it. Hope putting the past games on pedestal like this won't have those decisions forgotten.
- 4,996
- Val d'Orcia,Tuscany
- hardvibes
- ACR HardVibes
I make it sound as it is: A CPU is a CPU. PD can try to simulate real behavior as much as they want. It's still fake. It's a fact. You know it, I know it, everybody knows it. You're standing there with your hands on your controller/wheel and you're CONCIOUS you're not racing against anybody.
We've seen many times how a cpu can ram you out of nowhere because they have a scripted racing line. (That happens in GT just like it happens in FM). Not because they did it by accident, not because they did it on purpose, but because their behavior was coded, badly coded.
Playing online will put you against ALL types of real players with real behaviors and that's the thrill of it. I'd take the random 12 year old bumping into my car any day. Why? Because it's okay to get angry from time to time, and because they're not all bad 12 year olds players out there, pretty far from it. Again, it's the thrill of playing against real people. And there are way more cautious players out there than the 12 year old. As bad as it can be, they know there's a penalty system in place.
You sound like everybody wants to bump into you. That is absolutely not the case. The beauty of racing against real people is the dynamism and randomness of a real human being operating a controller/wheel.
I'm not telling you what and how to play. It is implicit that anything I write is my own opinion (and I thought I was pretty clear in my last message), but you know that facts are facts: the cpu is 100% fake and they're not all 12 year olds out there.
With PD he definitely makes more realistic sounds now. That was unexpected.
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Indeed. Technically, I feel that the underlying content delivery approaches in the games are in the same ball park, but I get the sense that GT7 is a half-way house that doesn't quite know where it's headed. Communication and roadmap have been poor. I actually think the initial product is still a highly polished game and I've enjoyed it a lot, but I can still see its flaws. It will only get better.
- 1,036
- United Kingdom
- theufc33
PD are gonna have to rethink their strategy here, because this drip feeding thing doesn’t work when the base game is already malnourished.
I don’t think microtransactions really mesh well with racing games. You either make car prices insane and have low payouts or render them irrelevant.
Problem is, people are just gonna leave in droves if the economy is too heavily geared towards microtransactions, and - I could be wrong, but I don’t think many sim racing game players are gonna drop big bucks on them.
Are microtransactions worth the potential loss in players as a result of weak payouts and high car prices?
They’re sitting on 301 GT League races they could port over in a week or so, I imagine. Add some prize cars and you have yourself a far beefier game. At the very least, even if the payouts aren’t great, there are still lots of races.
Some of them are in the menus, but honestly, just call them “Legacy Races” or something. I don’t think having two Sunday Cups, American FR Challenges, etc, is a problem. There’s already a Sunday Cup for multiple circuits.
It doesn’t fit their game design with events integrated into the World Circuits menu, but I don’t think it really matters at this point. The game needs content quickly unless they’re happy with a declining player count.
I guess at this point, the damage is done, but still. Do a little promotion for them, maybe an option to start with the menu or GT League for new players and you have a classic GT experience.
They have the parts, they just have to put them together. GT7 is not a lost cause, it’s very easily significantly improved but for some reason they are content with watering the sponge monthly, sometimes bi-monthly.
Or, if they don’t want to do that, just up the custom race payout. They don’t have to create events, they can just let the players entertain themselves.
They could - and this would be a bit more work - expand on the custom races and add a event creator of sorts - allowing players to set custom names for events (and maybe even logos, perhaps ones from your collection, so you could create and upload custom event logos), thumbnails and if you want a multiple-race series/championship.
Those events could be in a specific menu, like how you could access created tracks in GT5/6 so you could revisit them or share images, of, say, a career mode you made.
This probably wouldn’t happen, but the ability to separate them into categories, too, like previous GT careers.
But even without any of that, GT7 could have 2.5 times as much content in a week or two. The question is if they want to do that, since it doesn’t fit with their strategy, but I think it would at the very least maintain the player count for longer.
I don’t think microtransactions really mesh well with racing games. You either make car prices insane and have low payouts or render them irrelevant.
Problem is, people are just gonna leave in droves if the economy is too heavily geared towards microtransactions, and - I could be wrong, but I don’t think many sim racing game players are gonna drop big bucks on them.
Are microtransactions worth the potential loss in players as a result of weak payouts and high car prices?
They’re sitting on 301 GT League races they could port over in a week or so, I imagine. Add some prize cars and you have yourself a far beefier game. At the very least, even if the payouts aren’t great, there are still lots of races.
Some of them are in the menus, but honestly, just call them “Legacy Races” or something. I don’t think having two Sunday Cups, American FR Challenges, etc, is a problem. There’s already a Sunday Cup for multiple circuits.
It doesn’t fit their game design with events integrated into the World Circuits menu, but I don’t think it really matters at this point. The game needs content quickly unless they’re happy with a declining player count.
I guess at this point, the damage is done, but still. Do a little promotion for them, maybe an option to start with the menu or GT League for new players and you have a classic GT experience.
They have the parts, they just have to put them together. GT7 is not a lost cause, it’s very easily significantly improved but for some reason they are content with watering the sponge monthly, sometimes bi-monthly.
Or, if they don’t want to do that, just up the custom race payout. They don’t have to create events, they can just let the players entertain themselves.
They could - and this would be a bit more work - expand on the custom races and add a event creator of sorts - allowing players to set custom names for events (and maybe even logos, perhaps ones from your collection, so you could create and upload custom event logos), thumbnails and if you want a multiple-race series/championship.
Those events could be in a specific menu, like how you could access created tracks in GT5/6 so you could revisit them or share images, of, say, a career mode you made.
This probably wouldn’t happen, but the ability to separate them into categories, too, like previous GT careers.
But even without any of that, GT7 could have 2.5 times as much content in a week or two. The question is if they want to do that, since it doesn’t fit with their strategy, but I think it would at the very least maintain the player count for longer.
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Races against the AI in GRID are great. They are like GT but done well, you start at the back but it's a close formation, scripted events (crashes..) and obvious rubberbanding on higher difficulties BUT it's great fun. There is also a great damage model that will punish you if you drive like an ass
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- 1,777
- Florida, USA
I think PD made no real significant effort in the last few years to improve the AI, it seems to be one of the lower priorities in there game development.
Other games have steadily evolving
Here's a race I had at Imola in ACC (PS5) with the difficulty set at 90%, here the AI don't brake early, they accelerate quick out of the turns, they don't take wide race lines.
Other games have steadily evolving
Here's a race I had at Imola in ACC (PS5) with the difficulty set at 90%, here the AI don't brake early, they accelerate quick out of the turns, they don't take wide race lines.
- 674
- United States
GT series has been overrated, overrated by those that simply own a PS5 and not the other console. I have a cousin in law that hyped this game up, I've now ended up playing more than him and to me the game is in the high 70s out of 100.
Its a tie between this and GT6 where I've played the least amount of hours, something like under 40 hours where I'm already bored. I think GT3 is also a game with low hours required to beat the game and I probably clocked double that maybe even close to 100 hours.
But as others have said the game will continue to improve, so looking forward to that. It should have been that way out of the box. Hope they implement offline game play too.
Its a tie between this and GT6 where I've played the least amount of hours, something like under 40 hours where I'm already bored. I think GT3 is also a game with low hours required to beat the game and I probably clocked double that maybe even close to 100 hours.
But as others have said the game will continue to improve, so looking forward to that. It should have been that way out of the box. Hope they implement offline game play too.
- 349
- Wales
I recently downloaded GRID for my teenage kids, who I tried to get into GT* but they weren’t interested (‘the menus are too childish’). Not Legends, but the cheap earlier one. They’re having a lot of fun in the races there, doesn’t look too different to GT if I’m honest. One interesting feature that PD could/should copy is that you can make the races longer (x2, x5 type thing) just by changing settings. The GT menu races are just way too short and unsatisfying - if we could change a two-lapper into a ten-lapper they’d have more people going back to replay them.
*Dodged a bullet there. What doesn’t get mentioned much is some people, esp families, share a console; imagine if two or three people want time to work to get the cars, esp those time-limited ones in the LCD, using a single console. They’d have to work in shifts to get anywhere in the game.
- 3,279
- France
Too many good ideas in your post. More than time or money, it takes humility to change the game. They don't want to communicate or listen to the players. Unfortunately, I don't see a bright future for Poly with this state of mind and it will be 100% deserved. For less, Evolution studio is closed today.
- 345
- United Kingdom
- MK-Kraken
Can't believe how much more fun I'm having with Grid Legends. Hear me out...I just mean in terms of the gameplay loop, there is plenty to do, it looks good enough, it sounds great engine audio is much better than I expected (with a shifting system that actually feels good when changing gear, with a phantom clutch like Forza games. It has revs drop during shifts unless it's an sequential/auto, but also features an option for a real clutch, in an ARCADE RACER ffs).
The "story" is corny as hell but it's relatively fun, the "career" races are fun as well besides the drive X miles to unlock upgrades but those limits are not super high, not like GT7 grind lol. It has a damage system which does enough as well and is pretty decent visually and mechanically damage wise.
In short, the gameplay is very good. GT7 has all the bones and framework, driving is great (if they made shifting gears like Forza and Grid I'd enjoy it even more), sounds are excellent overall besides some odd samples that sound very quiet or perhaps incorrectly mixed, and the tracks are good, tuning awesome besides locking off engine swaps behind a roulette... But rolling starts all the time, race AI that is mad, severe lack of event types, severe lack of event progress to get you from street car to hyper car or classic to legendary etc, gated content behind "IRL prices" and behind ticket spins... gosh, what a damn shame.
Doubt it will happen but we need a significant overview, update, interview, review or whatever from Kaz and co, just to explain what the hell is going on and why the hell this approach was taken and what they are going to do to fix it!
The "story" is corny as hell but it's relatively fun, the "career" races are fun as well besides the drive X miles to unlock upgrades but those limits are not super high, not like GT7 grind lol. It has a damage system which does enough as well and is pretty decent visually and mechanically damage wise.
In short, the gameplay is very good. GT7 has all the bones and framework, driving is great (if they made shifting gears like Forza and Grid I'd enjoy it even more), sounds are excellent overall besides some odd samples that sound very quiet or perhaps incorrectly mixed, and the tracks are good, tuning awesome besides locking off engine swaps behind a roulette... But rolling starts all the time, race AI that is mad, severe lack of event types, severe lack of event progress to get you from street car to hyper car or classic to legendary etc, gated content behind "IRL prices" and behind ticket spins... gosh, what a damn shame.
Doubt it will happen but we need a significant overview, update, interview, review or whatever from Kaz and co, just to explain what the hell is going on and why the hell this approach was taken and what they are going to do to fix it!
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- 115
- United States
You are not going to get that for any amount of money. That is not how games work unless you buy a sandbox app or categorize online races as content here. SP content will be finite for the purposes that it is finite in GT7.
The AI in GT7 can actually put in some OK laps actually. I think they should just bite the bullet and make races with grid/rolling starts and give every AI on the grid the pace of the top 2-3 cars. Yeah, some people will fly by and have the lead in 2 laps but the vast majority of players would be happier and even those players would probably prefer that.
- 3,881
- St.Pete, FL
- NotThePrez
- NotThePrez
And this is a problem....why, exactly? Countless other titles have shown over the years that it's possible to have CPU opponents that actively challenge you and create a worthwhile racing experience without breaking the suspension of disbelief. Some games have even had it where the AI not only stays with you and battles you, but can also make mistakes just like a human player, or have car trouble that requires a quick reaction from the player to get around the obstacle without ruining your own race. Stuff like that is sought after because it helps immerse (God I hate that word) players into the experience, and exciting, but fair racing brings people back to keep playing. Meanwhile GT7 looks to have the same AI scheme for the past decade of GT entries, where for the most part opponents act as rolling chicanes with the occasional bit of close racing. This kind of AI programming is honestly a bit below standard nowadays, because we've had so many games in the genre over the years that have shown what good (or at least adequate) opponent AI are capable of compared to GT.
GRID Legends gets mentioned a lot when it comes to racing AI, and while it is very solid (if not a bit too easy at times), the AI in GRID '08 is the gold standard for me when it comes to the feeling of actually being in a race. Even though it's much more of an arcade racer, there are seldom moments where it feels like the AI is completely out of reach, and at the same time it's pretty difficult to build a major gap to them, provided you're playing on an appropriate difficulty in both cases. At the highest difficulties in the top-end races, you really have to push yourself hard to make up position, especially in some of the races at the tail-end of the career, where the top teams in each discipline (Ravenwest in particular) become more regular opponents. Even your teammate can and will try and take the win from you if you're going a bit too slow.
Except that not everybody wants to play online all the time, and a lot of people avoid online play for many of the same reasons that you listed as being positives. Gran Turismo, a series that has historically focused on single player more than anything else, should easily be able to offer solid options for both of these groups of players, yet from everything that's been shown so far, it's failed quite significantly in both departments.
- 13,838
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Yep, and I don't care whether there's a real human brain behind what I'm racing. I care whether it's good racing. Good racing isn't "fake", it's just good racing.
You should look up the Turing Test, you'd find it relevant.
Right. That's why I said good AI. A lot of the problem with Gran Turismo is that it's not particularly good AI.
Right. And also the frustration. Don't pretend that it's all positives here, there are negatives to racing against real people as well.
You missed the point of what I was saying. You're putting all the negatives of racing AI up against all the positives of racing humans.
I'm aware that most people playing online are fine, but I'm also aware that most of the time a good AI is just as fine to race against.
I'm aware that even good AI will sometimes behave badly, but I'm also aware that sometimes players online will do random or actively malicious stuff.
Both have their place, and this idea that racing good AI is categorically inferior in all situations to racing online is false and ridiculously elitist. Online and AI can and should co-exist, and neither of them is a complete replacement for the other.
You can't say that anything you write is your own opinion and follow that up with "facts are facts".
The CPU is 100% "fake", whatever that means. Most of us don't find that to be a problem - we're after good racing and we don't much care where it comes from. This argument that being "fake" is somehow disqualifying for AI being fun to play against is fundamentally flawed.
No, it's not all 12 year olds online, but you can't discount that racing online comes with a distinct possibility of having your race accidentally or maliciously ruined by someone else. That's part of the fun of racing online, but sometimes it's not fun and you'd just rather race against "players" that are more consistent in their obedience of racing rules. Or simply race with the ability to pause, or rewind, or restart whenever you like.
I don't expect you to get it, you've based your position around success online being the highest possible achievement and anything less than that is without value. Some, I would suggest most, of us don't feel that way, and are happy to have a close fought and clean race against any opponent, be they human or AI.
- 530
- Turkey
People are saying (me included) that GT7 will get better with time...
But i am no more convinced anymore with PD or i don't have Believe in them.
The game is out for over 3 months now and waht we are getting(with updates) is 3-4 new cars and few events monthly.
THIS IS NOT ENOUGH!!!
When i start to count those updates for a year or so we will be getting max.40 new cars a year and maybe 40-50 events and maybe few new Race Tracks.
Hopefully PD will speed up or they going to loose more and more Players like me.
But i am no more convinced anymore with PD or i don't have Believe in them.
The game is out for over 3 months now and waht we are getting(with updates) is 3-4 new cars and few events monthly.
THIS IS NOT ENOUGH!!!
When i start to count those updates for a year or so we will be getting max.40 new cars a year and maybe 40-50 events and maybe few new Race Tracks.
Hopefully PD will speed up or they going to loose more and more Players like me.
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- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
The next update, end of June will tell how things will pan out. It's PD's last chance to get on GT Sport's update track.
GT Sport received its full new track (Monza) in GT Sport just over 3 months after release, as well as new layouts for Maggiore. For GT7 that would be about now, mid June. GT7 will still be behind in events (GT Sport got GT League 2 months after release) and some cars.
There is so much more to fix though...
GT Sport received its full new track (Monza) in GT Sport just over 3 months after release, as well as new layouts for Maggiore. For GT7 that would be about now, mid June. GT7 will still be behind in events (GT Sport got GT League 2 months after release) and some cars.
There is so much more to fix though...
- 3,802
I know I will.
That, plus simply the fact that it's just you vs the CPU. Do people really find it interesting to race against fake scripted players?
Yes I find it interesting to race against fake scripted players, so long as it's not scripted by PDI. A race is a race and when AI is done well with no quirks I domt care if they're not human.
Anyway I took your advice and decided I no longer need AI. So I set up a lobby, single make race: Mazda Roadsters stock @Red Bull national. 9pm last night, I had 40 minutes to chill and play a racing game. 20 minutes later someone entered and left a minute later, so I thought **** I'm doing it wrong, how stupid of me to play how I want, why dont I just join another lobby and race a full lobby even if it's a combo I dont like or against people who dont race clean, and maybe they'll be miles better than me or miles behind me! Yea I'll do that because I'm told that's the best way. Oh awesome look, lobbies, lots of them, all filled with 1 or 2 people, oh damn my 40 minutes are up and I didht even race, thanks a bunch Hardvibes!
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- 54
- Hungary
For me, the biggest letdown is how unultilised the potential of the game is. It could be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but there is nothing to do. Bar the mission challenges if you can look past the nonexistent quality of the AI.
Such a pretty game, bummer that after all this time still the only thing it can offer for you is eye candy.
Such a pretty game, bummer that after all this time still the only thing it can offer for you is eye candy.
