Is GT7 fast becoming the worst of the GT Series?

[GlamFM]

You’re still comparing apples and oranges.

Get back to me once GT7 is f2p and has an online shop that lets you buy 4 different types of cosmetics with 3 different currencies.

Yes, I know Sony and PD have used the term “live service” in regards to GT7, but I’d argue it isn’t actually live service.

The online numbers are not indicative of this games success. You have people on this forum who don’t engage with the online stuff.
And we are the hardcore enthusiast.

Nobody disagrees with the legitimate criticisms of GT7.

I do disagree with your conclusions though.

I also think you have your head stuck up your own ass so far that it’s really hard talking to you.

Why do you think we have to “step up to the plate and make you believe”?

Who do you think you are?

 

[kjeldsen]

delete

 

[sswishbone]

I like how you cherry pick games that are borderline endless, I am amazed you didn't include Tetris, Minecraft and Cookie Clicker in your fair comparison.

Well considering GT7 has an endless focus on sport mode, time trial and scapes, your examples ironically have a greater parallel

 

[AlexWilmot]

Well considering GT7 has an endless focus on sport mode, time trial and scapes, your examples ironically have a greater parallel

Don't forget the cars being added, various QoL changes to lobbies, 3-5 races and 2-3 cafe menu's added to the game

 

[sswishbone]

Don't forget the cars being added, 3-5 races and 2-3 cafe menu's added to the game

Which, again, is live service drip feeding. Though yes, endless content of a kind.

 

[AlexWilmot]

Which, again, is live service drip feeding. Though yes, endless content of a kind.

I think you're severely underestimating the time it takes any studio to maintain a game & develop content for a game

 

[GlamFM]

I think his arguing in bad faith boarders on trolling at this point. 🤷‍♂️

 

[Met Entso]

OK, so you've done all your Licences, completed the Cafe Menu and done every circuit race/challenge… what now?

The Weekly races are only good for so long and even shorter if you keep getting nailed by the penalty system for no good reason.

After all, how can you be penalised (track limits, for example) when some neanderthal deliberately punts you off the circuit. And, because of said same neanderthal you lose your ‘clean race’ factor. Seriously? I could go on but I’m sure you’ve all experienced the same in one form or another.

Is it just me or was (apologies... I can’t actually remember which one) GT5 or 6 way better in terms of decent content? Everything just appears to be so limited right now and I for one am getting a little frustrated, especially with the Bugs in the system.

I agree, after few months the content of GT7 is mostly the online competitions, and those get seriously affected by other drivers behaviour that sometimes is just plain horrible. It's a pity because the competitions in GT7 are really good and full of drivers.

What I do is to minimize competitions, just doing Manufacturer's which is less stressful since only the last race counts. With Dailies I practice them in the lobbies and rarely go to the actual race. But might have to do it more often now that both Manu and Nations ended.

 

[sswishbone]

I think you're severely underestimating the time it takes any studio to maintain a game & develop content for a game

Not in the slightest, development does take a long time. It is why Final Fantasy VII Remake was delayed in excess of two years. It's is why it took so long for Persona 5 to come out. It is why we have only recently seen any form of announcement for RE Fantasy.

Releasing an unfinished game and drip feeding content isn't slow development, if anything it is being lazy. I fail to see how they can't develop new championships given how swiftly "The Human Comedy" was added.

I think his arguing in bad faith boarders on trolling at this point. 🤷‍♂️

Hmm... A different opinion voiced without insults and constantly highlighting flaws is trolling? If that's the case you really should explore the subject matter of trolling to a far greater detail.

 

[AlexWilmot]

I fail to see

I know I've taken this out of context but it is quite apt... You've failed to see what's really going on, we all have.
This assumption that it's being drip fed is the easiest cop out. where else would you get a game with at least 3-5 new cars and races every month, please enlighten me on this.

it's only 3-5 cars and or races being added yet the majority of people here cannot comprehend the time and efforts the team need to make these, you don't just write a few lines of code and be done with it.
You can't take the datamine car list as gospel or serious at all in terms of the data development for these as they're just text strings with no data behind it. It's not drip fed content if the content doesn't exist like you think it does.

Additionally we can see where PD are putting efforts in the game now, starting to limit rate bots that get data from their servers for people using it for time trails and daily race info, efforts to have different encryption of the game since we've had leaks and people just running with them, this is all time and effort taken away from developing the game.

 

[GlamFM]

Hmm... A different opinion voiced without insults and constantly highlighting flaws is trolling? If that's the case you really should explore the subject matter of trolling to a far greater detail.

Dude… you’re comparing GT to Fortnite..

Anyway, I will step away from this thread since I disagree with its premise and I will step away from you specifically because as I said you’re not arguing in good faith.

Byeeeeeeeee

 

[sswishbone]

I know I've taken this out of context but it is quite apt... You've failed to see what's really going on, we all have.
This assumption that it's being drip fed is the easiest cop out. where else would you get a game with at least 3-5 new cars and races every month, please enlighten me on this.

it's only 3-5 cars and or races being added yet the majority of people here cannot comprehend the time and efforts the team need to make these, you don't just write a few lines of code and be done with it.
You can't take the datamine car list as gospel or serious at all in terms of the data development for these as they're just text strings with no data behind it. It's not drip fed content if the content doesn't exist like you think it does.

Additionally we can see where PD are putting efforts in the game now, starting to limit rate bots that get data from their servers for people using it for time trails and daily race info, efforts to have different encryption of the game since we've had leaks and people just running with them, this is all time and effort taken away from developing the game.

I haven't referenced the data mined car list so not really sure how that's relevant. I take a lot of data mining with a grain of salt as it is often code extrapolated into something for viewers/readers to consume. Unless you've seen the code in action, it ain't relevant.

Other racers I've played have done car packs which actually lead to more on average. Forza 4 did it over ten years ago, it's not exactly a thing to hang your hat on

Most games have the content already there, they don't need to drip feed. That's kind of been my point.

Dude… you’re comparing GT to Fortnite..

Anyway, I will step away from this thread since I disagree with its premise and I will step away from you specifically because as I said you’re not arguing in good faith.

Byeeeeeeeee

I'm comparing multiple live service games, if you wish to zone in on one title and risk not computing the full point, that is a consequence of your own engineering.

You've made the claim I'm acting in bad faith, please supply your evidence

 

[AlexWilmot]

I haven't referenced the data mined car list so not really sure how that's relevant. I take a lot of data mining with a grain of salt as it is often code extrapolated into something for viewers/readers to consume. Unless you've seen the code in action, it ain't relevant.

Well I've referenced it due to people using that for the drip feed arguement

Other racers I've played have done car packs which actually lead to more on average. Forza 4 did it over ten years ago, it's not exactly a thing to hang your hat on

Ok but they're not giving pack out on a monthly basis of good quality models now are they?

Most games have the content already there, they don't need to drip feed. That's kind of been my point.

GT7 launched with over 450 cars, this seems like quite a lot of content to use. What drip feeding are you referring to then?

 

[sswishbone]

Well I've referenced it due to people using that for the drip feed arguement

Ok but they're not giving pack out on a monthly basis of good quality models now are they?

GT7 launched with over 450 cars, this seems like quite a lot of content to use. What drip feeding are you referring to then?

I appreciate you referencing others using the data mined list, I however did not, so I'm afraid it still isn't relevant to my points.

A monthly basis of 3-5 or a pack a quarter at 25+ is... Checks sums pretty much the same deployment, so... How is that any barometer for quality? Dropping monthly or quarterly shouldn't really make much difference. If anything it should improve quality as they have more time to triple check it all works.

The cars volume is decent, so where are the championships to use them? Where are the endurance races? Where is the career? I've asked these before, not met any answer. I said car volume was lower, I did not say the volume was low.

 

[AlexWilmot]

A monthly basis of 3-5 or a pack a quarter at 25+ is... Checks sums pretty much the same deployment, so... How is that any barometer for quality? Dropping monthly or quarterly shouldn't really make much difference. If anything it should improve quality as they have more time to triple check it all works.

If you know anything about the gaming world you'll know the quality of Models PD delivers are far superior in quality and accuracy of Models compared to Forza series, the time line only is relevant to the fact that it is a "low" number of cars compared to other titles due to the time spent on them for the renowned quality and accuracy. You've also missed the point that tese other titles aren't giving content updates on a monthly basis like PD are.

The cars volume is decent, so where are the championships to use them?

You can find championships at the bottom of the screen when you go to "World Circuits"

Where are the endurance races?

You can find endurance races in the missions section as well as under some of the "World Circuits" events such as the 1hr spa, 30min LeMans etc.

Where is the career?

The career is handled by means of a Cafe, where you progress through ownership of various cars through the menu books to drive them in specific races if you'd like or you can buy the cars to complete the menu's, GT7 is a car collecting game with the emphasis on exploring and enjoying car culture. Not a career of becoming a racing driver or the next best street racer which I'm assuming you're trying to compare this to other titles.
GT7 is titled as the real driving simulator, it's driving and the progress through the cafe menu if you choose to do the menu's as intended covers that.
I think your expectations of what the game is and should are the issue more than the game itself.

I've asked these before, not met any answer. I said car volume was lower, I did not say the volume was low.

Ahh back pedaling now I see...

 

[i386]

but B spec was so amazing😍😍

b spec in combination with sophy could create its own gt spin off: you train the ai they way you want (aggressive vs defensive, clean vs dirty racing and so on) and than put these ai drivers into races

If you know anything about the gaming world you'll know the quality of Models PD delivers are far superior in quality and accuracy of Models compared to Forza series

this sounds like the marketing I heard from gt3/gt4 where the models supposed to be so high quality that pd would have never again to recreate them. and yet that happened with the following games over and over again ._.

 

[AlexWilmot]

this sounds like the marketing I heard from gt3/gt4 where the models supposed to be so high quality that pd would have never again to recreate them. and yet that happened with the following games over and over again ._.

Good thing I never said any of this and that we've moved on from GT4 and now using fantastic quality cars for GT7

 

[sswishbone]

If you know anything about the gaming world you'll know the quality of Models PD delivers are far superior in quality and accuracy of Models compared to Forza series, the time line only is relevant to the fact that it is a "low" number of cars compared to other titles due to the time spent on them for the renowned quality and accuracy. You've also missed the point that tese other titles aren't giving content updates on a monthly basis like PD are.

You can find championships at the bottom of the screen when you go to "World Circuits"

You can find endurance races in the missions section as well as under some of the "World Circuits" events such as the 1hr spa, 30min LeMans etc.

The career is handled by means of a Cafe, where you progress through ownership of various cars through the menu books to drive them in specific races if you'd like or you can buy the cars to complete the menu's, GT7 is a car collecting game with the emphasis on exploring and enjoying car culture. Not a career of becoming a racing driver or the next best street racer which I'm assuming you're trying to compare this to other titles.
GT7 is titled as the real driving simulator, it's driving and the progress through the cafe menu if you choose to do the menu's as intended covers that.
I think your expectations of what the game is and should are the issue more than the game itself.

Ahh back pedaling now I see...

I didn't miss the point on titles not giving content updates, I called they didn't need to. What you advocate is buy now, play later

Ah those "championships" you mean where the races are not one series with constant leaderboard over a season? Where four grind payout races exist? Aside from the final menu book, I don't recall a full championship such as world championship, dream car championship, MR drivetrain, etc.

If you consider a 30 minute or one hour race an endurance then that says it all. Remember Kaz promising races that will eventually reach 24 hours in length? I do.

The cafe is not a career, not even close. You can barely get out of A licence races in the older titles by the time you finish the menu books

As for back pedalling? Not at all, I said less cars, that is true. From what I understand GT Sport had a lot less so that's something at least.

 

[AlexWilmot]

I didn't miss the point on titles not giving content updates, I called they didn't need to. What you advocate is buy now, play later

I'm advocating buy now and play now, which is what I've done with my purchase

Ah those "championships" you mean where the races are not one series with constant leaderboard over a season? Where four grind payout races exist? Aside from the final menu book, I don't recall a full championship such as world championship, dream car championship, MR drivetrain, etc.

Mate they exist, you're claiming they don't and now they are there but not up to your standard, keep being vague and moving the goalposts...

If you consider a 30 minute or one hour race an endurance then that says it all. Remember Kaz promising races that will eventually reach 24 hours in length? I do.

Yeah I do consider that an endurance race for GT7, even PD do with the description of the Mission races saying "A one-hour endurance race". Just remembering here FM7 didn't have any endurance races that I can recall(happy to be wrong on that) and ACC career mode has Endurance races between 1-2hrs, Shall we start lambasting them for not having 24hr races as standard as well?

As for back pedalling? Not at all, I said less cars, that is true. From what I understand GT Sport had a lot less so that's something at least.

No you said:

Most games have the content already there, they don't need to drip feed. That's kind of been my point.

You're implying that was no content at launch which again you've had 450 cars plus at launch to use, Gone from the assumption of no content at launch to "low car" count to now "less cars"
Can you make up your mind please?

 

[sswishbone]

I'm advocating buy now and play now, which is what I've done with my purchase

Mate they exist, you're claiming they don't and now they are there but not up to your standard, keep being vague and moving the goalposts...

Yeah I do consider that an endurance race for GT7, even PD do with the description of the Mission races saying "A one-hour endurance race". Just remembering here FM7 didn't have any endurance races that I can recall(happy to be wrong on that) and ACC career mode has Endurance races between 1-2hrs, Shall we start lambasting them for not having 24hr races as standard as well?

No you said:

You're implying that was no content at launch which again you've had 450 cars plus at launch to use, Gone from the assumption of no content at launch to "low car" count to now "less cars"
Can you make up your mind please?

How can you play now if the content isn't there? 🤔 Some circuits had zero races for months, then there's the drip feeding of cars. Then there's the cars your can only get thanks to nonsense RNG. Buy now, play a bit now but not the whole product? Not as catchy I guess but it makes the same point.

You say they exist. I have seen events listed at individual circuits as "wtc" or other events, which would be cool... If you didn't have to go out of your way to do them. A championship should be all races start to finish. Aside from final menu book, I don't recall this as a feature.

A one-hour race is not really an endurance. Not when we've had 300km, 500km and 1000km races previously. Plus, again, PD themselves have said content would be coming with races up to as long as 24 hours. 1/24th is a pretty poor batting average (possibly enough for England depending on your county). FM7 I didn't even mention for endurance races, I haven't played it as not been X-Box since the 360 days.

At launch you had cars, that much is true. There was the bare bones cafe menus, the all too limited missions... And... Err... Well ... Ummm... Nope, that's it.

I'm glad you like the game so much, that's awesome. I don't, it is a barren live service game with way too many problems to make it worth playing. The egregious microtransactions are just the rotten cherry on top of it.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Yeah I do consider that an endurance race for GT7, even PD do with the description of the Mission races saying "A one-hour endurance race".

Then perhaps PD should take a page from their older games because they are more than capable of giving us multiple-hour endurance races.

Just remembering here FM7 didn't have any endurance races that I can recall(happy to be wrong on that)

Forza 7 does indeed have endurance races. And unlike GT7, they were there at launch and didn’t have to be added after the game was being review bombed and receiving negative media attention.

Shall we start lambasting them for not having 24hr races as standard as well?

Nice whataboutism. @sswishbone already told you that Kaz himself promised to add 24 hour races, and this was over a year ago:

An Update to Our Players - Information - Gran Turismo 7 - gran-turismo.com

Dear Gran Turismo Community,Thank you for your continued support and feedback on Gran Turismo 7, your voices have not gone unheard. I would like to apologize for the frustration and confusion caused last week with our updates which resulted in not only a server outage but also adjustments to the...

www.gran-turismo.com

 

[GingerBredMan]

I have a question: I currently play iRacing on a low-end gaming PC. But despite that I can do races with up to 50 cars on track. How many more PlayStations and Gran Turismos will it take before I can do that on console?

 

[cjsrt4]

If we just go off of the OP's question, and focus on the game itself (no wheels / rigs, controllers, VR headsets to enhance the experience), I would have to agree that this game is probably one of the worst in the series. The need to grind the same 4 races alone, makes it a terrible experience for anybody that wants to collect cars and actually be able to use the content they paid for.

I definitely don't think anybody should have to go out and spend 1000 dollars on equipment just to enjoy a game. And anybody that disagrees with that just proved the point that this game is the worst, because you didn't need VR in any of the previous titles to enjoy them.

Having said that....
I'm currently enjoying the game again after purchasing the PSVR2. Because I'm not poor, I don't let my wife tell me what I can and cannot buy and I love looking down at people with less stuff than me! MUAHAHAHAHAH. Seriously though... I'm just kidding. The game sucks without VR...

 

[cjsrt4]

I have a question: I currently play iRacing on a low-end gaming PC. But despite that I can do races with up to 50 cars on track. How many more PlayStations and Gran Turismos will it take before I can do that on console?

It will never happen. The number 1 goal for any next gen game is looks and graphical enhancements over the previous title. On a PC you have the option to change numerous graphics settings to achieve the desired framerate based off of your equipment. That 500 dollar console was still cheaper than your low-end PC.

 

[GingerBredMan]

It will never happen. The number 1 goal for any next gen game is looks and graphical enhancements over the previous title. On a PC you have the option to change numerous graphics settings to achieve the desired framerate based off of your equipment. That 500 dollar console was still cheaper than your low-end PC.

If true, then I made the right choice. There’s more to gaming than graphics, and not everyone in the world is looking for the cheapest possible option for gaming.

 

[cjsrt4]

If true, then I made the right choice. There’s more to gaming than graphics, and not everyone in the world is looking for the cheapest possible option for gaming.

As far as racing sims go, nothing beats Iracing.

 

[AlexWilmot]

How can you play now if the content isn't there? 🤔 Some circuits had zero races for months,

But others did so there was still content.

then there's the drip feeding of cars. Then there's the cars your can only get thanks to nonsense RNG.

Which cars are these? because there are none that are only obtainable with RNG. it's almost as if you haven't played the game..

You say they exist.

because they do, again it's almost as if you've never played this game...

A one-hour race is not really an endurance. Not when we've had 300km, 500km and 1000km races previously. Plus, again, PD themselves have said content would be coming with races up to as long as 24 hours. 1/24th is a pretty poor batting average (possibly enough for England depending on your county). FM7 I didn't even mention for endurance races, I haven't played it as not been X-Box since the 360 days.

At launch you had cars, that much is true. There was the bare bones cafe menus, the all too limited missions... And... Err... Well ... Ummm... Nope, that's it.

and the races, plus sport mode and lobbies, which we've already covered before, you seem to keep forgetting things.

I'm glad you like the game so much, that's awesome. I don't, it is a barren live service game with way too many problems to make it worth playing. The egregious microtransactions are just the rotten cherry on top of it.

Not barren to me, I enjoy the game, make tunes, play online in lobbies and sport mode, make liveries take photos, the list goes on and yet I haven't had to buy a microtransaction for find a desire to buy one. but here you are deflecting again.

Then perhaps PD should take a page from their older games because they are more than capable of giving us multiple-hour endurance races.

Yeah Kaz has addressed that and said its a future update which you've linked to

Forza 7 does indeed have endurance races. And unlike GT7, they were there at launch and didn’t have to be added after the game was being review bombed and receiving negative media attention.

Thanks for showing that. Just confirms 1hr is considered endurance in the gaming world.

Nice whataboutism. @sswishbone already told you that Kaz himself promised to add 24 hour races, and this was over a year ago:

An Update to Our Players - Information - Gran Turismo 7 - gran-turismo.com

Dear Gran Turismo Community,Thank you for your continued support and feedback on Gran Turismo 7, your voices have not gone unheard. I would like to apologize for the frustration and confusion caused last week with our updates which resulted in not only a server outage but also adjustments to the...

www.gran-turismo.com

Yes things they are working on

 

[sswishbone]

But others did so there was still content.

Which cars are these? because there are none that are only obtainable with RNG. it's almost as if you haven't played the game..

because they do, again it's almost as if you've never played this game...

and the races, plus sport mode and lobbies, which we've already covered before, you seem to keep forgetting things.

Not barren to me, I enjoy the game, make tunes, play online in lobbies and sport mode, make liveries take photos, the list goes on and yet I haven't had to buy a microtransaction for find a desire to buy one. but here you are deflecting again.


Yeah Kaz has addressed that and said its a future update which you've linked to

Thanks for showing that. Just confirms 1hr is considered endurance in the gaming world.

Yes things they are working on

There was content, just nowhere near enough, hence the apology and promise of massive updates.

Which cars can you only get via RNG? They're called invites, that's RNG.

As stated before, very few people want to play Sport mode. If they wanted to play Sport mode, they'd buy GT Sport. (It stays online when GT7 goes down, for one) This is a numbered title, so it doesn't fit. Regular online mode is often laggy or unpopulated.

I'm aware there are livery editor and scapes, which I have mentioned, and made a point of saying, it's not driving. Some people play games and spend hours in the custom character mode, but a lot don't. GT7 has very little content to offer that option.

Regarding microtransactions, it's awesome you haven't had to, neither have I because FOMO doesn't work on me, but vulnerable itself are the target, not us.

Kaz has also had over a year to deliver, not happened, says it all

 

[AlexWilmot]

There was content, just nowhere near enough, hence the apology and promise of massive updates.

Which cars can you only get via RNG? They're called invites, that's RNG.

As stated before, very few people want to play Sport mode. If they wanted to play Sport mode, they'd buy GT Sport. (It stays online when GT7 goes down, for one) This is a numbered title, so it doesn't fit. Regular online mode is often laggy or unpopulated.

I'm aware there are livery editor and scapes, which I have mentioned, and made a point of saying, it's not driving. Some people play games and spend hours in the custom character mode, but a lot don't. GT7 has very little content to offer that option.

Regarding microtransactions, it's awesome you haven't had to, neither have I because FOMO doesn't work on me, but vulnerable itself are the target, not us.

Kaz has also had over a year to deliver, not happened, says it all

The apology was for the server that went down not the content…

In regards to sport mode I’m not sure how you can say that but you do you babe.

 

[sswishbone]

The apology was for the server that went down not the content…

In regards to sport mode I’m not sure how you can say that but you do you babe.

Well considering the statement also said:-

"but also adjustments to the in-game economy which were made without a clear explanation to you all.

We know that this is not the Gran Turismo experience you expect and we will be making a goodwill gesture in the form of a Credit Ticket worth 1,000,000 Cr. available to those players who may have been affected"

I must disagree with it being solely about the outage.

I can also say what I do about Sport mode due to how few people have the trophy for doing a tree in that mode