Is PCARS as Good as GT6?

[TT92]

That's not a bad idea, earning prize money and accumulating it throughout the game. If they set it up so that you got penalized for contact and damage, and higher rewards for races run with realistic aids and damage on, it might be fun to see how much I can earn in my racing career

I have seen this idea proposed for the GT series. You are penalised (or charged) with the cost of repairing your car for crash and mechanical damage especially when racing online. It would be one way to try and clean up online lobbies and help to train people that crashing into others is not what racing is about.

Although, being the person that was crashed into will also cost him :-( So this may start a new online game of tipping people off the track causing the least amount of damage to you and the maximum amount to the other guy. I don't see PCARS being smart enough with the penalty system yet to able to do this fairly. But we can all only hope.

 

[David Talle]

I have seen this idea proposed for the GT series. You are penalised (or charged) with the cost of repairing your car for crash and mechanical damage especially when racing online. It would be one way to try and clean up online lobbies and help to train people that crashing into others is not what racing is about.

Although, being the person that was crashed into will also cost him :-( So this may start a new online game of tipping people off the track causing the least amount of damage to you and the maximum amount to the other guy. I don't see PCARS being smart enough with the penalty system yet to able to do this fairly. But we can all only hope.

Meh, the only good system encouraging clean races out there is the safety rating from iRacing. But this is getting a bit of topic, isn't it ?
But I wish we could get rid of these brainless people faster on pCARS though (especially those wrecking you on purpose on the straights).

 

[Johnnypenso]

I have seen this idea proposed for the GT series. You are penalised (or charged) with the cost of repairing your car for crash and mechanical damage especially when racing online. It would be one way to try and clean up online lobbies and help to train people that crashing into others is not what racing is about.

Although, being the person that was crashed into will also cost him :-( So this may start a new online game of tipping people off the track causing the least amount of damage to you and the maximum amount to the other guy. I don't see PCARS being smart enough with the penalty system yet to able to do this fairly. But we can all only hope.

IMO clean online racing is a very easy problem to solve. You simply count up the number of contacts and then divide by distance driven, or races entered or laps run or some other number. Assign it as a rating to drivers and allow hosts to see that rating when someone enters the lobby and to set a minimum standard for crash rating to get in the lobby to begin with. Give it a month, problem solved. People who intentionally crash, crash much, much more often. If you have two idiots in a race and they make contact with every single person once they might have 10 incidents each, while I will only have one as will everyone else. It doesn't take long for this to show up in driver ratings and the bad drivers will get excluded from all the good lobbies and everyone's crash rating will come down as a result. People will avoid the bad lobbies and stick around in the good lobbies. In a short amount of time it will work itself out and online will be a blissful and problem free experience

 

[djm99]

Is PCARS as Good as GT6? yes, way better

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'll just leave this here:

Project CARS Review: Is It the Most Realistic Racing Game Ever? by Alex Lloyd

During my 21-year spell as a race car driver, I’ve driven many of the machines on offer in Project CARS. Little open wheel Formula Fords at a pokey Oulton Park racetrack in northern England? Sure. How about a Formula One car at Silverstone? I still count my blessings on that one.. A vintage American muscle car? A German DTM touring car? A Formula 3 open wheeler? An Audi R8 GT3?

I’ve been fortunate enough to drive them all. Point is, I know how the cars and tracks "should" feel from behind the wheel. And compared to other console games like Forza and GT6, in terms of real life driving dynamics, Project CARS wins hands down. It also scores higher than both those alternatives in terms of gameplay.

To me, as a racer at heart, Project CARS is every bit the game I’d hoped it would be — and it blows Forza or GT6 out of the water. If you’re more of an arcade gamer when it comes to racing, it may be a bit too hardcore.

 

[CHEN255]

I'll just leave this here:

Project CARS Review: Is It the Most Realistic Racing Game Ever? by Alex Lloyd

And despite what he says and having the racing chops to back it up, just go ahead and read the comments below the article. Seriously, it's like ignorance and naivety spawned a very large family.

 

[Fanapryde]

And despite what he says and having the racing chops to back it up, just go ahead and read the comments below the article. Seriously, it's like ignorance and naivety spawned a very large family.

A lot of authors of these comments should probably read the first part of my signature ?

 

[GranTurismoFive]

And despite what he says and having the racing chops to back it up, just go ahead and read the comments below the article. Seriously, it's like ignorance and naivety spawned a very large family.

Fanbois will be fanbois.

Here you have someone with two decades worth of real in track experience. Announcing that PC's physics are far better than that found in GT and Forza. Yet people have never taken to a track still have the nerve to argue otherwise lol.

Debates like these will never end. Often makes for good reading though. I mean what reasonable person doesn't find the irrational fanboi species amusing? Lol

 

[TT92]

IMO clean online racing is a very easy problem to solve. You simply count up the number of contacts and then divide by distance driven, or races entered or laps run or some other number. Assign it as a rating to drivers and allow hosts to see that rating when someone enters the lobby and to set a minimum standard for crash rating to get in the lobby to begin with. Give it a month, problem solved. People who intentionally crash, crash much, much more often. If you have two idiots in a race and they make contact with every single person once they might have 10 incidents each, while I will only have one as will everyone else. It doesn't take long for this to show up in driver ratings and the bad drivers will get excluded from all the good lobbies and everyone's crash rating will come down as a result. People will avoid the bad lobbies and stick around in the good lobbies. In a short amount of time it will work itself out and online will be a blissful and problem free experience

Yes that is a very good idea.

Would it also account for people that crash a lot on their own? If it did would a "contact" be classed as a crash if you only brushed a wall or did some door handle rubbing with an opponent?

Do you see the fine line I am trying to draw here? Where does a legitimate contact end and an idiot that can't drive properly begin with your system? The dollar idea distinguishes from $50 worth of touch up paint to $20,000 worth of chassis work ;-)

Either way I hope SMS can/will do something along these lines 'cos we sure do need it.

 

[Mr_D]

They could have added historic real liveries and had these open to buy using a credit system (on console at least)

Yeah, IF they added a credit system, I guess you could use it to buy liveries or maybe different helmets and racesuits. But for the love of God not to unlock cars..

 

[LotusTeam]

To me, Pcars completely nails down GT6 in terms of graphics, sound, physics, FFB...but PCars needs to improve its replay and spectator function, keyboard or DS4 support for wheel users, fixing glitches, online stability, user interface and add more Japanese cars and tracks in the game, I'm waiting for the Macau GP...

 

[GTP_Monkey]

People have a very very short memory. GT6 was not finished when it first came out and loads of contents has been added since. PCars is to PS4 as GT6 was to PS3 on release.

If you don't believe me go and have a read of the GT6 epic whining and crying thread:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/the-gt6-epic-whining-and-crying-thread.282208/

Oh and I remember that they changed the physics after about a year.

And you can't change the gear settings.

And the wonderful non-premium interiors!

And the sounds.



Lets give PCars a little time judge them by how they respond to the bugs/glitches/requests!

Thats all well and good but when Pcars kept being postponed to "polish" and get a bug free game at release, People then expected that was what they where going to get. Its failed poorly on that score. Yes its got good online and great physics and realism but has far too many bugs that where supposed to gotten rid off before release.

Im sure Pcars will be a lot better when its been around as long as GT6 But its unacceptable to delay for the reasons we where given only to find they haven't cured them.

 

[Tornado]

That just sounds like GT5

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yes that is a very good idea.

Would it also account for people that crash a lot on their own? If it did would a "contact" be classed as a crash if you only brushed a wall or did some door handle rubbing with an opponent?

Do you see the fine line I am trying to draw here? Where does a legitimate contact end and an idiot that can't drive properly begin with your system? The dollar idea distinguishes from $50 worth of touch up paint to $20,000 worth of chassis work ;-)

Either way I hope SMS can/will do something along these lines 'cos we sure do need it.

You could weight different collisions. 3 points for rear contact, 2 for side, 1 for solo etc. but again, I don't think it matters. If the system was sophisticated enough, it could judge incidental contact as null and void. If contact becomes punishment, people will drive differently. They will leave more room, they will divebomb less, they'll drive more like real cars. Those that don't, you won't be racing with again. I had 17 incidents in my first race in iRacing because I didn't realize that even going off track was counting against me. Once I realized what was going on, I drove differently. A system that allows a little contact but punishes the worst offenders can work, it's worth a try at least.

The problem with it is, and this is true of any game expected to sell in large numbers, is it will discourage sales. Less people will buy the game if they can't crash and bash online. This type of system really only serves the hardcore racers and we're obviously in the minority or there would be much more clean driving online. If word gets out that you can't get into lobbies online if you crash a lot, some people won't buy the game and I think that's what discourages this type of system outside of iRacing.

 

[David Talle]

The problem with it is, and this is true of any game expected to sell in large numbers, is it will discourage sales. Less people will buy the game if they can't crash and bash online. This type of system really only serves the hardcore racers and we're obviously in the minority or there would be much more clean driving online. If word gets out that you can't get into lobbies online if you crash a lot, some people won't buy the game and I think that's what discourages this type of system outside of iRacing.

SMS should've known where they were stepping into, pC isn't the most hardcore sim out there but still. You can't sell loads if you're aiming at a niche public. Trying to do the splits is very risky.

And the difference of iRacing is, not only you're disqualified after 17 incidents points (which can be less more than 17 incidents for those who aren't familiar with the system), but they put it at the center of the game's progression.
Basically if you want to race, for instance, an F1 one day you have to race clean but not necessarily be the fastest out there.
That is a brilliant game design idea.
Even the first D rank races are far more cleaner than 90% of the lobbies on Project CARS (on console).

 

[wowbaggerBR]

I think that, in general, you guys expect way too much from online experience. Childish behaviour in public online games is a norm, not an exception and that goes far beyond from racing titles. It is some sort of GTA way of playing on everything.

If online racing is your thing you have to build up a network of friends and other players that share the same need for clean racing with you. Otherwise, no matter what you play, you'll get frustrated because online gaming is just like that and it'll be forever.

 

[Luminis]

Seriously, it's like ignorance and naivety spawned a very large family.

What did you expect?

Skimmed over the comments on the review @Johnnypenso linked. There's stuff like this:

I'm sorry everyone i have Forza 5 as well as GT6 and have recently bought this game. It is not even close to the best racing game ever. The driving is not simulation. It is very arcade feeling, even with the wheel. The graphics are nice but the physics and replays are horrible compared to GT6. My favorite feeling racing game and best replays are still GT6. Forza 5 comes in a close second because of the ability to design car liveries. It makes for an endless amount of cars. This game has a long way to go to beat GT6 and Forza 5

I'll bet you a fiver that guys like him have never driven a car in real life. Yet, they still feel qualified to have a say in the matter. I'm not even sure whether they're the ones to blame though; probably just bought into the marketing and PR the bigger games have been receiving for years.

Thats all well and good but when Pcars kept being postponed to "polish" and get a bug free game at release, People then expected that was what they where going to get. Its failed poorly on that score. Yes its got good online and great physics and realism but has far too many bugs that where supposed to gotten rid off before release.

Two things:
1) Might be sad but true nonetheless: That's how games are these days. Not an excuse, I know. Still, PCARS is far from the worst in that regard. GTA V/Online gave me more of a headache - and that was postponed just as much...
2) Goes for the PC version, obviously, but I've managed to cut down on the amount of issues I'm having but fiddling with PCARS' settings and doing some basic troubleshooting regarding my PC. Don't know why but the game seems ridiculously sensitive to that sort of stuff; overlays like that of my MSI Afterburner or Steam caused some severe instability issues, for example.

Still, some more polish and bug fixing is definitely in order. The continuous support (or lack thereof) will certainly impact my opinion of PCARS and SMS in the long run.

I think that, in general, you guys expect way too much from online experience. Childish behaviour in public online games is a norm, not an exception and that goes far beyond from racing titles. It is some sort of GTA way of playing on everything.

If online racing is your thing you have to build up a network of friends and other players that share the same need for clean racing with you. Otherwise, no matter what you play, you'll get frustrated because online gaming is just like that and it'll be forever.

Agreed, and such behaviour isn't exclusive to racing games, either. Try playing GTA Online without someone trying to **** you over. And the lower the initial investment, the worse the players, I feel. Someone who's putting up with iRacing's pricing and the almost mandatory purchase of a proper wheel and stuff is less likely to just play the game to mess around. Then there's the diametric opposite, free to play games. Toxic, most of the time.

 

[David Talle]

I think that, in general, you guys expect way too much from online experience. Childish behaviour in public online games is a norm, not an exception and that goes far beyond from racing titles. It is some sort of GTA way of playing on everything.

If online racing is your thing you have to build up a network of friends and other players that share the same need for clean racing with you. Otherwise, no matter what you play, you'll get frustrated because online gaming is just like that and it'll be forever.

I know and that's why I hope pCARS' online to clean itself over time because it's a more hardcore game that what most of these people probably expected in the first place. And no it's not a fatality, there are ways to counter this like Johnnypenso said, that proved working (e.g. iRacing + price barrier indeed). The point is to filter people so that those who stay will have about the same expectations and conception of racing.

And yes racing with people you trust is way better, that's why GTP's online subforums are so active and it is growing in the pCARS online section but it takes quite some time. For the here and now we still have to deal with it and it's somewhat tiresome.

 

[MowTin]

Why is it that when people claim one game is more realistic than another they never explain WHAT is more realistic? Every racing sim has power oversteer, lift off oversteer, understeer, weight transfers, tire pressure adjustments, etc.

 

[FoRiZon]

Why is it that when people claim one game is more realistic than another they never explain WHAT is more realistic? Every racing sim has power oversteer, lift off oversteer, understeer, weight transfers, tire pressure adjustments, etc.

One sim is better at simulating than the others.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Why is it that when people claim one game is more realistic than another they never explain WHAT is more realistic? Every racing sim has power oversteer, lift off oversteer, understeer, weight transfers, tire pressure adjustments, etc.

Every game has cars, tracks, sound etc. The point is some people prefer one over the other for personal reasons but one can objectively analyze physics if you know how real cars are supposed to perform at the limit and some games simply do this better than others, even amongst the most "pure" of racing sims. I see people explaining it all the time, not sure where that comes from.

 

[MowTin]

One sim is better at simulating than the others.

But I notice when people claim their sim is better they almost never explain what is simulated better. I suspect that mostly they're talking about FFB feel which is very subjective.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

But I notice when people claim their sim is better they almost never explain what is simulated better. I suspect that mostly they're talking about FFB feel which is very subjective.

One of the things that jumped out at me right away in pCars is the FWD. I have not driven a FWD in any other game that feels like the FWD in PCars and in PCars it feels right. lots of power understeer along with lots of liftoff oversteer.

GT6 does a better job than GT5 did and imo better than Forza 2-4 but PCars is better than any of them as to feeling like a real car would even if you don't consider the superior FFB effects just the way the car reacts under a given condition. The tuning also in PCars is way more indepth and while I haven't dived into it much yet I hope more accurate. Both Forza and GT have a tendency to make cars go faster by raising the front and lowering the rear. In the case of Forza the some cars even have better turn in when the front is lifted where in the real world it should be the opposite of that.

 

[David Talle]

But I notice when people claim their sim is better they almost never explain what is simulated better. I suspect that mostly they're talking about FFB feel which is very subjective.

GT6 for instance has no turbo lag, no mechanical failures, very light temperature management, these are simple things but pretty obvious that GT6 don't handle despite happening in real life.
And there is probably a lot more differences if you go in depth in the physics, that's what is discussed here.

Now I've read an interesting post on Autosport.com the other day, yes a "sim" regardless of if it's the most accurate or not in the end it is still about how your car will react taking Eau Rouge, it's mainly about oversteer and understeer when you hit the kerb there, to put things very simply. But the more precise and realistic a sim is, the more feel for details you'll have , and thus being able to correct the car's behavior, indeed through FFB but not only.

 

[FoRiZon]

@David Talle GT6 has a turbo lag....

As for others, yeah nope. All we get is the faux mechanical failure that only wobble the car (suspension and bodywork) and limiting the power.

 

[David Talle]

@David Talle GT6 has a turbo lag...

I don't think so, or if there actually is, it is ridiculously weak and negligible on powerful turbos. When you put a small or large turbo, it is exactly the same except you have 150 more bhp.
On Project CARS you can actually put your foot down just before the apex in order to have full power at the corner exit.

As for others, yeah nope. All we get is the faux mechanical failure that only wobble the car (suspension and bodywork) and limiting the power.

That too, but I wasn't even thinking about collision damage, more engine failures due to pushing the car too hard, overheat, brake wear, etc...

 

[Scaff]

One of the things that jumped out at me right away in pCars is the FWD. I have not driven a FWD in any other game that feels like the FWD in PCars and in PCars it feels right. lots of power understeer along with lots of liftoff oversteer.

This, and for @MowTin I can even illustrate it with a video....



...you can see the understeer build in the video above and that most sims do, however at the throttle lift yo can see that initially the understeer reduces as load starts to move to the front and it gets more grip (again most but not all sims do this) and then as the line actually tightens significantly as the load is transferred fully (and its this tightening of the line that very few sims get right).

 

[MowTin]

One of the things that jumped out at me right away in pCars is the FWD. I have not driven a FWD in any other game that feels like the FWD in PCars and in PCars it feels right. lots of power understeer along with lots of liftoff oversteer.

GT6 does a better job than GT5 did and imo better than Forza 2-4 but PCars is better than any of them as to feeling like a real car would even if you don't consider the superior FFB effects just the way the car reacts under a given condition. The tuning also in PCars is way more indepth and while I haven't dived into it much yet I hope more accurate. Both Forza and GT have a tendency to make cars go faster by raising the front and lowering the rear. In the case of Forza the some cars even have better turn in when the front is lifted where in the real world it should be the opposite of that.

I wish more people would talk about actual details like that.

I was just reading the Project Cars Physics Wiki and I'm really impressed by the details in the physics.

http://en.pcars.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Physics

Overall, I wish the physics and graphics of pCars could be added to GT and made available on PC. Forza and GT are more about collecting and customizing cars from a wide selection. It's impossible to say that GT6 is better than pCars or iRacing or Forza 5, etc. Each game brings something different to the table.

 

[MowTin]

This, and for @MowTin I can even illustrate it with a video....



...you can see the understeer build in the video above and that most sims do, however at the throttle lift yo can see that initially the understeer reduces as load starts to move to the front and it gets more grip (again most but not all sims do this) and then as the line actually tightens significantly as the load is transferred fully (and its this tightening of the line that very few sims get right).

Nice. That video makes the point about FWD cars very clear.

 

[Tornado]

@David Talle GT6 has a turbo lag....

Define "turbo lag".