Is PCARS as Good as GT6?

[DRJULESSTEELE]

If PD can get GT back to its glory days on the PS4 then that would be great, no doubt. My point still stands though: hardware limitations are not an excuse all the time. It's PD's choice on how they optimize their 8 year old hardware. They can have too much of feature X (let's say graphics) and too little of feature Y (AI). Nobody is forcing PD to make their game look pretty other than PD themselves. Vice versa for the AI. If the graphics are beautiful but the AI can't even bother to race you, it's not the hardware's fault. It all comes down to resource optimization/management.

Hardware limitation.

I have to imagine if you knew what any of the things in that chart meant, you wouldn't have posted it. It doesn't even get the size of DVDs correct.

Dude your incorrect. DVD's have single layer to xxxx the size is range. Look at the computation specs.

 

[Ameer67]

Hardware limittio

No point in discussing with you anymore I suppose.

 

[Imari]

I am sure when GT7 gets released on PS4 it is going to be huge. Will you then say people dumped Pcars or Forza for GT7

There are a number of areas in which there's simply no competition between pCARS and GT.

pCARS cannot hope to compete with GT's car list, they don't have the budget and the workload to make another 1100 premium cars is prohibitive. As even Polyphony have already noticed.

On the other hand, GT would have to develop an entirely different physics system from scratch to even have a hope of competing with pCARS. And they don't even have the advantage of having something decent in their history like GTR2 to use as a base. Ditto AI, they'd have to go from worst in the industry to damn near best to even be in the discussion.

For GT7 to be huge will require Polyphony to make significant progress in a number of areas. It will require them not to adopt the same quasi-early access approach that they used to GT6, or they risk losing everyone who was alienated by that particular piece of genius. And it requires them to do it soonish, because the longer they wait the more other racing games come out and the better the competition gets.

GT7 will be a big deal because it's Gran Turismo. But it will remain to be seen whether it's a big deal because it's a really good game, or if it gets the same criticisms that have been levelled at Gran Turismos for the last ten years.

 

[DRJULESSTEELE]

No point in discussing with you anymore I suppose.

Sounds good. But bring out some facts like specs and what not. Not looking for fight.

 

[MKVSupra]

IMO PCars is a worthless POS. Mostly unplayable.

The controller is not set up, the game is buggy as hell and many pop in and anti aliasing issues. Im kicking my self in the ass for buying this POS digital, fml.

Maybe pc players are using such trash but I'm not. This crap is worse squaresofts type s. GT6 ***** totally all over this turd.

 

[Tornado]

Dude your incorrect. DVD's have single layer to xxxx the size is range

Dude, do you even know what kind of DVD has 17 GB of storage? Because no Xbox 360 games came on one and I can only think of a couple of movies that did.

Dude, do you even know what kind of PS3 had 6 USB ports? Because no PS3 that Sony actually produced had any more than four.

Dude, do you even know what the PS4 GUI is called? Because it's not Xross Media Bar and it's not a redesigned version of the XMB either.

Dude, do you even know what XBox 360 had HDMI but only 1080i support? Because mine happily ran at 1080p from the day I bought it to the day I sold it.

Look at the computation specs.

The computation specs on that chart are wrong too. The PS4 has 4 times as much L2 cache. The PS4 does not have dedicated VRAM (which would amusingly invalidate the whole point of the expensive unified DDR5). The PS4 BD drive is not 8x, nor can it play CDs. The peak theoretical performance for the PS3 and 360 CPUs are wrong, and are being compared to that of the GPU in the PS4 to boot.


The PS4 (and to a lesser extent the Xbone) are exponentially more powerful, simpler systems than the ones that they are replacing. A chart of basic specs you clearly don't understand does not prove that, even if half of the information on it wasn't laughably incorrect; nor does the vast increase in power and ease of use mean that PD won't be able to make terrible decisions when developing games for it.

 

[TT92]

Why not make this decision in a year's time?GT6 has had months and years of updates, dlc and improvements over the past 2 or 3 years. Projects Cars had been out for a fortnight and is v1.0.

Wait until Project Cars is a year or two down the line and then compare when the comparison is fairer.

However, IMO, Project Cars v1.0 > GT6 v1.0

Fair point *BUT* I have a lot of friends still on PS3 with GT6 and I for the life of me I cannot, in good faith, recommend they spend between A$1,000 and A$1,500 to migrate to PS4 and PCARS.

*IF* it was ground breakingly better then I could, hence the thread title and they will be reading this.

 

[GranTurismoFive]

Are people aware than GT6 is on the PS3 which just so happens to be 8+yrs old, or we just going to ignore that for every comparison. Why do you think SMS cancelled Project Cars on the PS3/360, it's direct competition for comparison. Either way I wasn't pleased by the game and returned it after two days.

So you're moaning about a game you no longer own?

As mentioned eaarlier I believe it to be completely fair and just. To compare certain aspects of this title.

Take the snes. A system that is decades old. Nintendo were able to Create extremely impressive AI inn Mario Kart.

GT's AI is and has always been (unless you're a poor driver) been a push over. In other Words easy.

PCs AI is like a breath of fresh air. Aggressive, somewhat unforgiving, quick (Not just in a straight line. But around corners too. PD take note). I love it... And if I didn't I'd probably go running back to GT too.

It'll be interesting to what what promises and claims PD make this time around for the next BY game. And how many of those Will be broken.

For now PC is the most authentic racer on the console market.

 

[DRJULESSTEELE]

IMO PCars is a worthless POS. Mostly unplayable.

The controller is not set up, the game is buggy as hell and many pop in and anti aliasing issues. Im kicking my self in the ass for buying this POS digital, fml.

Maybe pc players are using such trash but I'm not. This crap is worse squaresofts type s. GT6 ***** totally all over this turd.

Iracing and Gran Turismo are the only racing games to play imo.

 

[Gejabo]

I really get the feeling some people bought an entirely different game than I have.

 

[Imari]

*IF* it was ground breakingly better then I could, hence the thread title and they will be reading this.

I can't think of any game that would be worth spending $1000+ to play. No game is that good.

Unless you're so rich that you're wiping your arse with hundreds, you buy a console (or a PC) for more than one game. If your friends are so rich that they'd actually consider dropping $1000 on one game, then money isn't a consideration.

If you're really, really into simulators, you buy a decent PC. It's not even a question. For the money it costs you to get a PS4, a PS4 compatible wheel and the one simulator that exists you can get a decent PC, a decent wheel and access to dozens of good sims.

If you just like simulator-ish racing games, and like playing some other games on console to go along with it, suddenly you're not investing $1000+ into one game any more. And you should probably buy an X1 so that you can have FM5, FM6, FH2, and pCARS.

pCARS sounds like it's pretty buggy on console at the moment, but on PC it's working just fine for me, and all the complaints I've heard so far have been from console users. Tell your rich friends to use that money to buy a PC and get it on there. While they're there they can pick up Assetto Corsa, iRacing, Game Stockcar, rFactor 2, RRRE and expansions, GTL, GTR2 and it's infinite expansions, Race 07, maybe some of the Codies F1 games, maybe some Grid Autosport if you want something a bit less serious, maybe even some Euro Truck Simulator 2 if you just want to relax and drive.

If they're serious enough about driving games to even consider spending $1000 on one, they should have PCs.

 

[DRJULESSTEELE]

So you're moaning about a game you no longer own?

As mentioned eaarlier I believe it to be completely fair and just. To compare certain aspects of this title.

Take the snes. A system that is decades old. Nintendo were able to Create extremely impressive AI inn Mario Kart.

GT's AI is and has always been (unless you're a poor driver) been a push over. In other Words easy.

PCs AI is like a breath of fresh air. Aggressive, somewhat unforgiving, quick (Not just in a straight line. But around corners too. PD take note). I love it... And if I didn't I'd probably go running back to GT too.

It'll be interesting to what what promises and claims PD make this time around for the next BY game. And how many of those Will be broken.

For now PC is the most authentic racer on the console market.

Authentic sure it is.

 

[Darragh]

IMO PCars is a worthless POS. Mostly unplayable.

The controller is not set up, the game is buggy as hell and many pop in and anti aliasing issues. Im kicking my self in the ass for buying this POS digital, fml.

Maybe pc players are using such trash but I'm not. This crap is worse squaresofts type s. GT6 ***** totally all over this turd.

If you do actually have the game, then go configure your pad by using one of the threads that deal with that and wait until the bugs get sorted out in future updates.

 

[Scaff]

Authentic sure it is.

In terms of how the AI interacts, how the events are structured both across the full season and within the race day/days/weekend, with practice sessions, qualifying and race(s). All of which vary in number and duration; and which contain flag rules, mechanical damage from vehicle abuse, pit stops that can go wrong, full dynamic weather and time of day on every track.

Yep I would say that it terms of how it presents Motorsport its currently the most authentic on console.

 

[GranTurismoFive]

Authentic sure it is.

You disagree?

the likes of gt and forza have tried. But have never really come close.

The likes of PC, Iracing, AC and others have proven this.

If you do actually have the game, then go configure your pad by using one of the threads that deal with that and wait until the bugs get sorted out in future updates.

And as a fan of motorsport it is all I've ever wanted from a console based sim. GT has been nothing but an acceptable filler until the day PD or some other developer came up with a more realistic presentation of the sport.

 

[CHEN255]

I've given up on the GT series. There development cycle is screwed up. They take too long to get new games out. Forza just keeps moving forward while GT stands still.

By the time GT7 comes out for the PS4 PCars 2 will be out and Forza 6 for XONE.

pCars saved me from having to buy an XBOX One and a new wheel. There were many times when I had those items in my shopping cart and almost bought them. It's $800 for just one game.

I still think GT has the best game with license tests and car and racing variety.

PCars has saved me from having to go the PC route (or a steam machine when they are released) to get a sim racing fix. Hopefully with great sales of PCars on console it may encourage other developers to release on console. (RaceRoom Racing Experience anyone??)

 

[gtracedriver1]

There are a number of areas in which there's simply no competition between pCARS and GT.

pCARS cannot hope to compete with GT's car list, they don't have the budget and the workload to make another 1100 premium cars is prohibitive. As even Polyphony have already noticed.

On the other hand, GT would have to develop an entirely different physics system from scratch to even have a hope of competing with pCARS. And they don't even have the advantage of having something decent in their history like GTR2 to use as a base. Ditto AI, they'd have to go from worst in the industry to damn near best to even be in the discussion.

For GT7 to be huge will require Polyphony to make significant progress in a number of areas. It will require them not to adopt the same quasi-early access approach that they used to GT6, or they risk losing everyone who was alienated by that particular piece of genius. And it requires them to do it soonish, because the longer they wait the more other racing games come out and the better the competition gets.

GT7 will be a big deal because it's Gran Turismo. But it will remain to be seen whether it's a big deal because it's a really good game, or if it gets the same criticisms that have been levelled at Gran Turismos for the last ten years.

I am not even sure Pcars has established it self in PC or console. It has got mixed reaction from both communities. But in few years we will know how good Pcars will become and what GT7 brings to the table. I personally think GT6 is an excellent game. With lots of things to do. In GT7 I can definitely see better sounds, damage etc. It expect it to be great game so we will see. First SMS needs to prove that they can support their game and update, fix the issues people are facing. I have a feeling in few months they will move on to their next game

 

[mister dog]

IMO PCars is a worthless POS. Mostly unplayable.

The controller is not set up, the game is buggy as hell and many pop in and anti aliasing issues. Im kicking my self in the ass for buying this POS digital, fml.

Maybe pc players are using such trash but I'm not. This crap is worse squaresofts type s. GT6 ***** totally all over this turd.

Ok folks, discussion is over we have a winner here

Seems like a lot of butthurt GT fans entered this thread just to throw the ****z around, fearing there's actually a game available on the Playstation now that is a more realistic driving simulator than the game they love and hang on to so dearly

 

[Formula1269]

Hardware limitation.

Dude your incorrect. DVD's have single layer to xxxx the size is range. Look at the computation specs.

FYI: You're or you are.

 

[NLxAROSA]

I am not even sure Pcars has established it self in PC or console.

Judging from the love/hate reactions it has managed to kick the door in at least. Once the current issues are addressed properly, people have had time to digest complex stuff like the FFB system, and there's more content, establishment will grow. And especially on PS4, it has no competition at this moment, so it's definitely established there (though it's hard to predict what will happen once the competition catches up). On Xbox One a bit less so, because more competition (and more issues). On PC there's a massive amount of competition, but it has gained a gathering of followers quite quickly. So I think it definitely gained a foothold, but of course telling the future is impossible.

 

[paulpg87]

Ok folks, discussion is over we have a winner here

Seems like a lot of butthurt GT fans entered this thread just to throw the ****z around, fearing there's actually a game available on the Playstation now that is a more realistic driving simulator than the game they love and hang on to so dearly

but he's right on bugs, bad settings etc. However still better than gt6 from my side.. but even shift 2 unleashed was a better game than gt6. At the moment pcars needs a lot of work, too many bugs and a lot of stuff to be fine tuned. Maybe by the end of year with 3/4 patches will be good.

They sold pcars here like the game of the century.. people, including me, were expecting a far better game with all that hype.

 

[Imari]

I am not even sure Pcars has established it self in PC or console. It has got mixed reaction from both communities.

So has GT6 (and GT5 at release), if we're being perfectly honest.

Of course pCARS hasn't established itself. It's a new game. But it's got itself a niche. On PC there are almost no sim-type games with a serious single player mode. On PS4 it's the only game that can call itself a sim with a straight face. On X1 it's going against FM5/6 and FH2, but it's got enough of it's own personality that it's a valid option, and serious racers will just buy all of them.

First SMS needs to prove that they can support their game and update, fix the issues people are facing. I have a feeling in few months they will move on to their next game

Of course they do, just like every other company. We can't do anything but wait and see. You make whatever assumptions you want, and if you think that they're gonna ditch the game then don't buy it.

But if we're making comparisons:

On one hand, we have SMS who have a pretty good game with some pretty serious bugs. We're yet to see how they deal with that, but there is at least communication from the developer that the issues are being addressed internally, and we'll see when they actually release a patch how effective those fixes are.

On the other hand, we have PD who released a game without major features, presumably to try and avoid the sort of cluster:censored: that pCARS is seeing now. It's a different approach, and probably the better one, however PD tried to have their cake and eat it too by advertising a few killer features as coming later. Near 18 months later we're still waiting on their headlining feature, and Vision GT was nothing like what they advertised it to be.

I imagine it's a tough call as a developer. Do you just jump in with both feet and weather the storm, hoping that people will stick with you through the tough times? Or do you hold back everything and promise your customers that it's coming, it's coming, no really it's coming, honest, and hope that people don't leave in disgust while they're waiting?

Neither approach is a good one. I happen not to be having showstopper bugs on PC with pCARS, but I can sympathise that it's a lot harder for those on console to feel like they're getting value at the moment. I remember what buying Shift 2 was like, and it was a bad time. On the other hand, I don't feel like I've gotten value out of GT6 at all, and I've already put more hours into pCARS than I have into GT6.

I have a lot of racing games, and I play those that offer something that is the best of all the ones I own. pCARS has the best single player gameplay, which actually turns out to be something I like to play a lot. It also has one of the better tyre models, and I'm still trying to figure out whether I like pCARS, AC or iRacing better in that regard. GT6 has a lot of cars, which turns out to be something I don't care that much about, particularly when the driving experience in a lot of them is far from authentic. Once upon a time I used to be able to tell myself that GT was really what driving these cars is like, but now I know that it just isn't so.

===========

Personally, I'm taking it as read that SMS fixes all the major bugs, just like PD did with GT5. If they don't, it's all over and there's no point even talking about this stuff because it'll be an awful game, on console anyway. If they do fix it, then and only then is it worth comparing to other games. I'm happy comparing now, because I'm on PC with a wheel and can play just fine.

If I'm given the choice of playing a racing game for the next two hours, and my choices are pCARS or GT6, then 95% of the time it's going to be pCARS. I enjoy it more.

 

[mister dog]

but he's right on bugs, bad settings etc. However still better than gt6 from my side.. but even shift 2 unleashed was a better game than gt6. At the moment pcars needs a lot of work, too many bugs and a lot of stuff to be fine tuned. Maybe by the end of year with 3/4 patches will be good.

Yes but he just repeats what he heard in order to take a dump over PCARS. I could go over to the GT forums and only focus on all it's known bad aspects so i can make it look like a dogs dinner too (and believe me i will have more inspiration than just focusing on bugs and out of the box controls).

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Hardware limitation.

Dude your incorrect. DVD's have single layer to xxxx the size is range. Look at the computation specs.

So I guess you never heard of a dual layer DVD? Even PS2 had dual layer DVD and GT4 was on a dual layer DVD as are the Forza titles for Xbox 360.

btw the capacity of a DL DVD is 8.5 gb not 17gb

 

[GranTurismoFive]

Ok folks, discussion is over we have a winner here

Seems like a lot of butthurt GT fans entered this thread just to throw the ****z around, fearing there's actually a game available on the Playstation now that is a more realistic driving simulator than the game they love and hang on to so dearly

Lol post made me giggle because it's somewhat true.

I like some other sound minded members here pledge no allegiance to an brand. I enjoy motorsport games. And have no problem being critical about these titles.

Makes me laugh the amount of negative responses PC is getting purely because it's better at representing motorsport than any other title currently on consoles.

credit where credit is due I say. SMD have put together a great title. Yes it has its issues. The wheel bug really annoys me. And the UI could be miles better. But when you actually start driving on the track all is forgiven. I am confident they'll fix these issues.

GT and Forza have had their chance to bring something new and fresh to the table Many times. Instead they just stuck to what they were used to. And us fans just accepted it.. purely because there was no other competition.

I'm glad PC is here. And for two reasons. One because it's is the best representation of motorsport on console (at the moment). And two because this will hopefully force the makers of GT and Forza to make more authentic titles.

 

[mister dog]

GT and Forza have had their chance to bring something new and fresh to the table Many times. Instead they just stuck to what they were used to. And us fans just accepted it.. purely because there was no other competition.

They don't need to change what they are doing, as long as they are doing it good. T10 for example do a good job staying innovative and giving their fans what they are asking for, within the boundaries of the Xbone and their GT style game. The good thing would be that PCARS stays a racing simulator and GT and FM stay car collecting driving games, then they can complement eachother and we have the best of both worlds

 

[GranTurismoFive]

IMO PCars is a worthless POS. Mostly unplayable.

The controller is not set up, the game is buggy as hell and many pop in and anti aliasing issues. Im kicking my self in the ass for buying this POS digital, fml.

Maybe pc players are using such trash but I'm not. This crap is worse squaresofts type s. GT6 ***** totally all over this turd.

Unplayable.....?

last night I done a 45 lap race of donnington with 29 other AI opponents.

format
15 practice session
30 qualifier session
then the 45 lap race

Almost everything that could happen in a real race happened. Pit stops for tyres and fuel, spin outs, flags. The title didn't miss a heartbeat.

I honestly don't get the hate lol. What more do you want lol

 

[GranTurismoFive]

I am not even sure Pcars has established it self in PC or console. It has got mixed reaction from both communities. But in few years we will know how good Pcars will become and what GT7 brings to the table. I personally think GT6 is an excellent game. With lots of things to do. In GT7 I can definitely see better sounds, damage etc. It expect it to be great game so we will see. First SMS needs to prove that they can support their game and update, fix the issues people are facing. I have a feeling in few months they will move on to their next game

You're right about PC not being fully established. it'll take time and effort. What I do know is that I appreciate the effort SMS are putting into supporting the title. the level is unprecedented. They've opened up a public forum for people like you and I to help support them (pointing out issues). Who else is doing that?

 

[Luminis]

Gran Turismo is SONY's biggest game, money comes first just like every other business. No major game company isn't going to release a triple A title with a smaller install base. GT5 alone almost outsold the entire forza franchise put that into perspective.

Ever heard the term "system seller"? There are good reasons to release a flagship title on hardware with a low installation base. Makes it easier to get people to buy the new hardware. Plus, Sony didn't do that with GT5 either, did they? Personal opinion here, but I'd say it's just down to PD taking their sweet time with developing their games.

The PS3 architecture is far more complex than the PS4, it's much harder to design games for hence why SONY went forward with a X86 pc architecture but no one is even going to mention the real nits and bits.

Decisions have consequences. Sony/PD opted to develop GT6 on outdated hardware. The game being inferior in some areas due to that is a consequence of that decision. As such, I hardly see it as a valid excuse. And since people on here aren't going on about PCARS looking better than GT6 or having more cars on track, that points gets even more moot.

I've been reading the PCARS subforum a lot lately and people praise it for its focus on racing. That's a design decision. Nothing more, nothing less. PD could have super computers for hardware and it still would not make a speck of difference if they're focusing on stuff other than the racing. And going by GT5 and 6, racing hasn't been PD's focus for a while now.

The PS4 will dawn the same magic that the PS1/PS2 captured with GT.

BS. It wasn't the hardware that made those games great. Their design was ahead of the game back then. The PS4 doesn't design the game, the people at PD do.

The PS3 specs compared to the PS4 are downright pathetic. Hardware limtations create issues with computation. Project Cars should be compared against Forza 5 on a current gen system. GT6 being on last gen and still being compared to current gen games should be an indicator how strong GT really is.

It's an indicator of GT's popularity first and foremost.

Well, that, and a showcase of some member's inability to understand the difference between game design and hardware-induced technical limitations

Want an example? Having 30+ cars on the grid, that's something that can be excused by a lack of processing power. Not having flags, not having drive-through penalties, not having the same standard of quality for all assets within the game - are not.

One more thing: The PS4's hardware specs are pathetic compared to a good gaming PC as well. Doesn't mean every PC exclusive racing game will be better than the console games.

GT apologists are jumping on this subforum indeed.

Is there something wrong, I wonder?

I guess some people have the need to reassure themselves of the "fact" that they've chosen the right "team". The notion that you have to chose a team in the first place when it's about entertainment media is nonsensical in the first place, but I

Hardware limitation.

Talking about limitations, can I also exclude the amount of content from the discussion? The GT fans seem to bring the amount of content a lot - yeah, no surprises there, given the difference in budget and resources. By your logic, that shouldn't be up for debate either.

Maybe pc players are using such trash but I'm not. This crap is worse squaresofts type s. GT6 ***** totally all over this turd.

PC as in personal computer or Project CARS?

If you're on about the former, I'll have a good laugh at you.

I am not even sure Pcars has established it self in PC or console. It has got mixed reaction from both communities.

Well, I'd say reviews and reactions are generally favourable. I know Metacritic is a bit iffy to rely on, but both the critics scores and the user scores are higher for PCARS than for GT6 - which doesn't say much about being established, granted. Just goes to show that it's not getting shunned.

 

[rclark83]

i think its a great change for playstation users, i bought my ps4 on launch night 2013 and to be fair apart from the odd game of battlefield and gta5 it has never been used... Until now. Its great to play a sim on next gen even if it has its flaws. Im sure they will fix them soon. Gran turismo has always been my game of choice and when gt7 is released im sure it will be again.. as for now the change is great.