Islam - What's your view on it?

  • Thread starter SalmanBH
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To be fair I think most Jihadists attack American and UK interests and people is because America and UK interfered with the Muslim world, in their opinion at least, much more so than Russia or China. Russia does have its issues though in Chechnya, and China's Uighars, though Uighars tend to keep to themselves.

Don't forget the Russian afghan war , we funded the gihadist then only reason they managed to wear down Russians was with training equipment and troops a lough we were not supposed to know that SAS was fighting there with afgan tribes
 
To be fair I think most Jihadists attack American and UK interests and people is because America and UK interfered with the Muslim world, in their opinion at least, much more so than Russia or China. Russia does have its issues though in Chechnya, and China's Uighars, though Uighars tend to keep to themselves.

Indeed if we hadn't invaded Iraq and Afghanistan would for instance, the London bombings have happened? We certainly antagonized anti-western feelings.


Don't forget the Russian afghan war , we funded the gihadist then only reason they managed to wear down Russians was with training equipment and troops a lough we were not supposed to know that SAS was fighting there with afgan tribes

Indeed, ironically we in effect armed al-Qaeda.
 
London bombings to be fair mate was hyped up to the max, jeez when I was a kid the IRA use to bomb the UK all the time but at least they give you a warning so not totally heartless lol , but them bus bombs were sad but nowhere near the scale of the IRA terrorists.
 
London bombings to be fair mate was hyped up to the max, jeez when I was a kid the IRA use to bomb the UK all the time but at least they give you a warning so not totally heartless lol , but them bus bombs were sad but nowhere near the scale of the IRA terrorists.

The point was however that such a mass attack was not expected. Whereas with the IRA and the Irish it was a constant ongoing issue, London came out the blue.
 
The point was however that such a mass attack was not expected. Whereas with the IRA and the Irish it was a constant ongoing issue, London came out the blue.
I wouldn't say It came out of the blue we invaded 2 Muslim country's and these are the way the gihadist work , its all designed to cause panic but typical Brits, were all lined up at the bus stops the next day. I think its time we should just let them get on with it now, they have o run out of virgins soon
 
The reason it's like this is because the Qu'ran was revealed over a period of 20 years. Some of it was revealed during peace and it reflected that, other times it was revealed during war and it reflected that. Knowing the Qu'ran is one thing, but knowing history behind it is a whole other thing. This is why I want young Muslims that are reading the Qu'ran to read the background history to it also.

You do realise the irony there?
 
This whole thing was taken out of context, the spread of the Islamic empire did spread with battles and strategic placement along with the blood of hundreds of thousands of people.

I am not denying that.

I didn't say anything about the spilling of blood, did I? I was pointing out that today's gods came very late to the party. Several billion years after the creation of our planet, and the blink of an eye ago in an historical sense.

Now that you bring up killing and blood, though, one has to wonder why so many gods require their followers to do the killing for them. Your holy book tells you you should kill me.

Isn't that an extraordinary obligation to put upon a person? Surely, if a god wants me dead, that god would find it easy to do the deed, and not require believers to do the dirty work. The god made a universe and needs help killing me?

If you were to kill me, I'd assume that the act would have negative psychological side effects on you, which is not very nice for you either. Maybe not. Maybe the training you received from the holy book makes you immune to conscience.

Whatever, the whole construct makes no sense, and is plain immoral. At least it is my atheistic opinion that telling people to go out killing others because they don't believe the same stuff as you is immoral. Funny that atheists are sometimes asked where they get their morality from since they don't have religion to provide it. I think I prefer my brand of morality in which I actually care about people. And animals, and plants, the whole ecosystem, and those guys on exoplanets.
 
@GBO Possum

That same Qu'ran also says to respect the people of the Torah and Bible, and people in general. Again, like I said above, it came over a period of years and reflected as such. Qu'ran Arabic is also pretty effing hard to translate properly because its written in poetic prose. Meaning like poetry you have to decipher beyond the words at face value.

The source you quoted is also a very biased source since it keeps count of Islamic terror incidence and portrays Muslims as animals. The very infidels the Qu'ran speaks of is the Quraish and other tribes that happened to be idol worshipers that made it their mission to destroy the first Muslims because they hurt their trade industry using the idols as a basis for pilgrimage. Muhammad made it a point to not attack parties not affiliated with the tribes, even if they were idol worshippers. When I said know the history behind it, that's what I mean. It's frustrating to see people ignore the Prophet for saying things like even a smile is charity, and hitting a woman with only a feather, or even take a bath when you're angry because anger is the emotion of fire. Or that the ink of the scholar is worth more than the blood of the martyr?

This is the ignorance that people today have, even Muslims. Yes he went to war, but you would too if war was brought to you. But even during war he was benevolent to his conquered foes.

Why are you speaking as if the Qu'ran is making every Muslim out to get you? That's like me saying Uncle Sam is out to get me because of the Patriot Act.

The questions that you have as an atheist are all existentialist ones. Indeed why would a deity that is creator of all this need our worship? I don't know, and neither did any of the prophets from Adam to Muhammad. But it's a question that nobody will get. Is Atheism the answer? Perhaps. I do agree that people don't need religion to enforce morals. I also agree that Atheist have caused far less misery on the world than Muslims have recently.

But people need religion, imo, to identify something with. They also want comfort to know that their deeds will be answered in some form. That their life on this Earth is not the only journey we all go on. Maybe its all hogwash, maybe its all true. Humans are truly trivial creatures. We can create amazingly complex mathematical equations, like how the Greeks, Arabs, and many others did long ago. Or we can war and destroy each other like how we hear all so often now unfortunately. I'm trivial myself. I believe in Allah and his message, but I also believe in science. I believe that the Prophet is the most perfect of men, but I also know he has made his mistakes. I believe that the best of intentions can cause more harm than good, and I also believe those with the worst of intentions can ironically cause more good than harm.

All I know is that in my heart I'm a good Muslim that's willing to shake hands and joke with others than be as murderous as the source you posted says me and my people are. All Allah asks of me is to be a good person. Not to be a martyr on the evening news, or some freedom fighter fighting Uncle Sam because he is the supposed "Great Satan".
 
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Doesn't the Qu'ran also state something about the Jewish people? Not entirely sure on the specifics.
 
Doesn't the Qu'ran also state something about the Jewish people? Not entirely sure on the specifics.

It states that they were the chosen people, but because of their disobedience to God when he brought his Commandmants down, and continuing with the betrayal of Jesus, they are the cursed people. The chosen part does not necessarily mean that God favors them, but God chose them to deliver his message to the people.

There's a bit of debate though if God or Moses cursed the Jews to never find peace. In terms of relationship between Jew and Muslim, it's supposed to be one of respect, but obviously the Qu'ran asserts its supremacy over Judaism. I mean would the US Constitution say the British Parliament is better?
 
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What irony would that be?

That Muhammad was the middle eastern Joseph Smith, only with a lot more ambition. When you go to prayer facing Mecca think for a bit why you are facing that way instead of Jerusalem, as Muhammad used to tell his followers before another "revelation".
 
you got to give it to the Chinese they do not let religion get out of control ... But if I am honest I wish religion didn't exist the amount of people slaughtered about this mystical being in the sky is absolutely stupid weather its inca's sacrifices to a sun god or in the name of Allah or "god" .. I don't agree with any of it killing under the guise of religion
 
I know so religion didn't have a place in Communism, things have changed slightly since the fall but to my knowledge religion doesn't play any role in your political decisions
 
I know so religion didn't have a place in Communism, things have changed slightly since the fall but to my knowledge religion doesn't play any role in your political decisions

"Things have changed slightly" is a bit of an understatement. I find it painfully ironic that in 25 years (and most intensely in the last 5 years) Russia has gone from an officially atheist state to quite possibly one of the most strongly Christian states outside of Africa. One only needs to remember the furore over Pussy Riot to be reminded of the increasingly close ties the Russian state and the Russian Orthodox Church have.
 
DK
"Things have changed slightly" is a bit of an understatement. I find it painfully ironic that in 25 years (and most intensely in the last 5 years) Russia has gone from an officially atheist state to quite possibly one of the most strongly Christian states outside of Africa. One only needs to remember the furore over Pussy Riot to be reminded of the increasingly close ties the Russian state and the Russian Orthodox Church have.

Hence the fall of communism were was I wrong ... Putin is still communist at heart just look how he behaves. Anyways way off topic. Remember I only mentioned china and Russia because they would kick ass if Muslim gihadist attacked Moscow or any Chinease city's etc
 
Hence the fall of communism were was I wrong ... Putin is still communist at heart just look how he behaves.

I see a guy who's destroying freedom of the press, a guy who's allowing the Russian Orthodox Church to become more and more influential, a guy who has powerful friends among the most powerful of (privately-owned, of course) Russian companies. While the first one can be attributed to any form of authoritarianism, the second and third things I've listed are certainly not something you'd see from a communist.
 
I know so religion didn't have a place in Communism
DK
"Things have changed slightly" is a bit of an understatement. I find it painfully ironic that in 25 years (and most intensely in the last 5 years) Russia has gone from an officially atheist state to quite possibly one of the most strongly Christian states outside of Africa. One only needs to remember the furore over Pussy Riot to be reminded of the increasingly close ties the Russian state and the Russian Orthodox Church have.
Actially, the Soviet Union was never an officially atheist state. The Constitution declared it as a secular state where religion is separated from the government. However, in the '30s, the clergy was oppressed and prosecuted. But during the WWII and after it, the religion policy was seriously changed, and there were no more plans to destroy the church. Besides, in some periods of the history, the Soviet government supported and backed the clergy to satisfy the political interests.

+40% of Russia is catholic orthodox from what I know...
"Catholic" and "Orthodox" are different branches. ;)
Catholics are a minority here.

Hence the fall of communism were was I wrong ... Putin is still communist at heart just look how he behaves.
How does he behave so he makes you think he's a communist?
Yes, we have communists in the parliament (CPRF party lead by Zyuganov), but Putin is a member of another fraction (United Russia).

Remember I only mentioned china and Russia because they would kick ass if Muslim gihadist attacked Moscow or any Chinease city's etc
Like any other well-developed state would.
But "do not tolerate" and "would kick ass if Muslim jihadist attacked" are different things.
 
Well it's not related to Islam but I think Putin is like a "new" Czar of Russia as Madeleine Albright has said few months ago. He is maybe a bit nostalgic over past glories of the Russian empire.

In other news this (wikipedia) is the situation today July 3rd in IRAQ with the Sunni ISIS forces:

640px-Territorial_control_of_the_ISIS.svg.png
 
Indeed if we hadn't invaded Iraq and Afghanistan would for instance, the London bombings have happened? We certainly antagonized anti-western feelings.




Indeed, ironically we in effect armed al-Qaeda.
Once again, you go and aimlessly blame the entire country.
 
I speak "we" as a government, because considering a government is majority elected by the people, therefore we are the people who put them in charge.
Have you cast a vote for an obvious war mongerer? If you haven't, quit with the guilt and start enjoying life.
 
Have you cast a vote for an obvious war mongerer? If you haven't, quit with the guilt and start enjoying life.

Quit the guilt? I enjoy my life for what I can quite well thank you, and considering I wasn't old enough to vote last election no...
 
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