Islam - What's your view on it?

[sumbrownkid]

Still yes. Because the underlying theme of rejecting the central beliefs of Islam in that their is only one god, and that god is Allah, and the Prophet is his last messenger, in this case, makes him an infidel.

But he also gets the benefit of Allah's mercy. Our judgement is pretty much like a day in court. Allah is the judge, and your deeds are assessed by the judge. The Angels serve as the witnesses.

Infidel is a word that is darker than it really is. Just because one is an infidel, it does not mean he or she is automatically condemned. That's up to god by the way and not by any of us.

Which brings me to this point that I find upsetting in the Muslim community. Whenever I make it to Friday prayers, the Imam for some reason, is very confident that I will go to the fires of Hell if I do not pray five times a day. But I do have my reasons: school, med school.

Bold statement? Yes

True? Well, interestingly enough, if the Imam deemed it so that I'm destined for the fires, then of what use is for the sentence: "The most gracious, the most merciful"? Which is written above him on a glass plane hanging between two walls by the way.

I think the Imam maybe overstepping his jurisdiction.

 

[Djtim]

Be a Buddhist, no wars, no hate, just love and peace.

Like a beatnik

 

[W3H5]

I'm honestly quite ignorant of most of the facts, only because there are so many thing one hears about Islam and the way it's been portrayed in the media. I'd like to learn more but then talking to one side and not the other will leave me with a biased view I think.

Probably best if I just read the Koran and made my own mind up, not that I am religious, but because I find religion fascinating and worth studying because of it's use throughout the world.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

But now it seems so many Muslims judged the infidels rather harshly, hated them and at some occasions results in violent acts. I read a news about a Muslim who became a Christian priest put on death penalty in Iran/Iraq, just because he did not want to return to his old beliefs, he was considered an infidels worthy of death sentence.

 

[kennylmao]

I can't do pork man, it just looks so nasty.

Now give me some Buffalo!

I know right! I'm no Muslim but I also don't like pork. Especially when it's cooked Asian style, like almost every pork based dish you can find in this Asian country. But bacon and pork ribs on the other hand is a whole different story. Sigh, sometimes I wonder if I was born in the right side of the world, lol.

Buffalo wings FTW

 

[sumbrownkid]

But now it seems so many Muslims judged the infidels rather harshly, hated them and at some occasions results in violent acts. I read a news about a Muslim who became a Christian priest put on death penalty in Iran/Iraq, just because he did not want to return to his old beliefs, he was considered an infidels worthy of death sentence.

They are ignorant fools then. "Infidel" is just another word to dehumanize someone now.

Like how some American's refer to Arabs in general as "terrorists"?

And Buffalo Wild Wings sound really appetizing right now.

 

[aadil717]

Wow Carbonox, you just described me in 20 points! Well done! 👍

Now off to murder all my friends and neighbours who don't believe in Islam or God!

 

[sumbrownkid]

Wow Carbonox, you just described me in 20 points! Well done! 👍

Now off to murder all my friends and neighbours who don't believe in Islam or God!

Leave the people behind Playstation and Star Wars alone though.

And Rockstar games also.👍

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

I read a news about a Muslim who became a Christian priest put on death penalty in Iran/Iraq, just because he did not want to return to his old beliefs, he was considered an infidels worthy of death sentence.

Well, some countries like Iran have a constitution that protects other beliefs. Some others simply don't. Even though it states in the Qu'ran that if you leave Islam, you are deemed to go to hell, in Iran, its legal because you either left to be a Jew or a Christian. Any other religion is not protected (Zoroastrian etc.)

 

[kennylmao]

I think the Imam maybe overstepping his jurisdiction.

Wait till you see the control of Islamic authorities in my country. It's ridiculous. I mean that, seriously.

Of the many examples are 'operations to catch Muslim couples who get together on Valentines Day/New Year's Eve' and 'protesting performances/concerts by Westerners on the account of indecent dressing, eg: Beyonce'.

They literally have the right to arrest a Muslim for doing something that is against Islam. Not to the extent of skipping prayers and wearing headscarves but you get what I mean.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Wait till you see the control of Islamic authorities in my country. It's ridiculous. I mean that, seriously.

Of the many examples are 'operations to catch Muslim couples who get together on Valentines Day/New Year's Eve' and 'protesting performances/concerts by Westerners on the account of indecent dressing, eg: Beyonce'.

They literally have the right to arrest a Muslim for doing something that is against Islam. Not to the extent of skipping prayers and wearing headscarves but you get what I mean.

The central issue here is that the government is too closely aligned with religion. Not everyone is Muslim, and therefore cannot hold them to Islamic laws as easily. As for Muslims doing that, it's just going to make the couples and any other shananagins they do behind closed doors or out of view from the mainstream. It just sweeps the issue to the side, but does not solve it.

Malaysia should be preoccupied by doing things that governments should do: maintain economy, security, and relationships abroad and within. Let the public handle trivial matters such as what you described.

 

[kennylmao]

explanation above

Totally agree, well said.

I think I'm derailing the thread so, get back on topic boys!

 

[kk20]

Which brings me to this point that I find upsetting in the Muslim community. Whenever I make it to Friday prayers, the Imam for some reason, is very confident that I will go to the fires of Hell if I do not pray five times a day. But I do have my reasons: school, med school.

Bold statement? Yes

True? Well, interestingly enough, if the Imam deemed it so that I'm destined for the fires, then of what use is for the sentence: "The most gracious, the most merciful"? Which is written above him on a glass plane hanging between two walls by the way.

I think the Imam maybe overstepping his jurisdiction.

Yeah I've always been confused with this. We as people do not decide whether anyone goes to hell or not. That is what allah will do. I've read the quran in english and Im telling you, it repeats "God is most forgiving, most merciful" soooo many times. Probably in one in every 20-30 verses. Humans make mistakes, we're not perfect. Its just how hard you try to not make those mistakes...

I'm honestly quite ignorant of most of the facts, only because there are so many thing one hears about Islam and the way it's been portrayed in the media. I'd like to learn more but then talking to one side and not the other will leave me with a biased view I think.

Probably best if I just read the Koran and made my own mind up, not that I am religious, but because I find religion fascinating and worth studying because of it's use throughout the world.

You dont know how happy this comment made me, The fact that you are keeping an open mind and are willing to learn a little bit of islam is just great. If you dont read arabic then I suggest reading in english or in any other language you can understand. The literature is mind-blowing and im someone that hates poetry and reading story books. There are quite a few meanings in english for one arabic word. Theres this one word which is 8 words in english. Its left unambigious.

 

[Azuremen]

Anyone who finds decent arguments against at least most of these will get lots of high fives...

20 FACTS ABOUT ISLAM EVERY INFIDEL SHOULD KNOW

You probably owe a few people high-fives now.

Not to mention none of those are facts, at all, nor from a reasonable source. More so considering your link doesn't work, but the front part of the URL is enough for me to scoff at it. I honestly hope you don't take these facts seriously, as they are beyond ignorant sounding.

Have you yourself ever sat down and read anything from the Quran, or the history of Islam, on your own? Or has it just been these laughable "facts" that sound like something Fox News would promote?


As for Islam itself, it has a varied history, ranging from relatively peaceful and accepting to absolutely brutal. Which doesn't make it much different than Christianity through much of history, though perhaps more noted because its violence has come later in its existence, where Christianity's sits further in the past.

Considering it is 600 years newer than Christianity and is currently facing many of the issues that Christianity has addressed mostly in the past 200 to 300 years, such as equality of woman, persecution of non-believers, and law resulting from religion, I don't see much reason to vilify it anymore than the other Abrahamic religions. Of course, this doesn't change media sensationalism at all, nor people spouting more ignorance (I'm looking at you Carbonox) about the religion. People see the most extreme sides of Islam and conclude that is all there is to the religion, while ignoring extremist actors using Christianity as their motive. It would be as if people judged all of Christianity by the actions of the Westboro Baptist Chruch and Aryan Nations in the US, the NLFT in India, or Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda. Then a Zionist was held responsible for the attacks in Norway last year.

Then everyone forgets that Islam helped develop medicine and science when Europe was failing under the Catholic Church. Nor do people often realize that Muslims preserved and translated many important works from the Greeks that helped prompt the Renaissance following the Moors being driven from Spain. Basically, there is a great deal of progressive history that people seem to forget when talking about Islam, while generally ignoring the questionable histories of Christianity.

 

[cphbullet]

Not looking to pick a fight, but i don't see a point in it or any religion for that matter, from what i can tell religions seem to have been invented for or by those looking for guidance. Why? And why worship a 'god'? I've never needed guidance or worshiped anything and I seem to be doing ok, now again why is it that i should burn in hell (and in extremists cases be killed) for not believing in a 'god' or never needing guidance?

 

[RobFocus]

I think people believe in a god out of confusion

What annoys me is people who pretend to be intelligent by dismissing religion as bollocks without even bothering to learn anything about it

The more you think about science and the big bang theory etc., the more religion makes sense. I've never been baptised into any religion and I've got 2 A's in GCSE Science - but I still believe in God, and fate to some extent

But people can believe anything they like at the end of the day, we're probably all wrong anyway 👍

 

[JediRage]

You probably owe a few people high-fives now.

Not to mention none of those are facts, at all, nor from a reasonable source. More so considering your link doesn't work, but the front part of the URL is enough for me to scoff at it. I honestly hope you don't take these facts seriously, as they are beyond ignorant sounding.

Have you yourself ever sat down and read anything from the Quran, or the history of Islam, on your own? Or has it just been these laughable "facts" that sound like something Fox News would promote?


As for Islam itself, it has a varied history, ranging from relatively peaceful and accepting to absolutely brutal. Which doesn't make it much different than Christianity through much of history, though perhaps more noted because its violence has come later in its existence, where Christianity's sits further in the past.

Considering it is 600 years newer than Christianity and is currently facing many of the issues that Christianity has addressed mostly in the past 200 to 300 years, such as equality of woman, persecution of non-believers, and law resulting from religion, I don't see much reason to vilify it anymore than the other Abrahamic religions. Of course, this doesn't change media sensationalism at all, nor people spouting more ignorance (I'm looking at you Carbonox) about the religion. People see the most extreme sides of Islam and conclude that is all there is to the religion, while ignoring extremist actors using Christianity as their motive. It would be as if people judged all of Christianity by the actions of the Westboro Baptist Chruch and Aryan Nations in the US, the NLFT in India, or Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda. Then a Zionist was held responsible for the attacks in Norway last year.

Then everyone forgets that Islam helped develop medicine and science when Europe was failing under the Catholic Church. Nor do people often realize that Muslims preserved and translated many important works from the Greeks that helped prompt the Renaissance following the Moors being driven from Spain. Basically, there is a great deal of progressive history that people seem to forget when talking about Islam, while generally ignoring the questionable histories of Christianity.

Have you ever read the Quran? Or do you get your facts about Islam only from your muslim friends or your local imam?

What concerns me about Islam is that the 'verse of the sword' in the Quran, the one that obligates a muslim to kill or suppress non-believers, is chronologically the last revelation pertaining to non-believers. By the rule of abrogation, it cancels out every preceding revelation regarding infidels/kafirs that are used by 'moderate muslims' to show how 'peaceful' Islam is. The source for this is the Quran and Islamic texts themselves. Additionally, the Quran isn't arranged chronologically, but starts with the longest chapter and ends with the shortest. So you won't find this verse at the end.

Also your point about Christianity having similar problems as modern-day islam a few centuries ago is too simplistic. Not all religions evolve the same. Just because you saw a pattern in one, doesn't mean it applies verbatim to the other. That is just a fatally wrong assumption.

By the way, why does every topic about Islam devolve into accusations against other groups as a form of defence for Islam? It's like the playground argument that is repeated ad-nauseum. He did this-They did this-they were not punished-so i can do anything and i didnt do anything especially wrong. The thread is about Islam but I see the bible being discussed. WTF?

 

[Joel]

Because western media outlets propogate an idea that violence, injustice, and murder are inherent in Islam, while Christianity is good and righteous. This leads to Christians (particularly in the US) criticizing Islam, oppressing Muslims, and having an irrational fear of the religion and its followers.

The parallels being drawn to Christianity try to illustrate that the problems and violence aren't specific to Islam. It's not so much about excusing the actions of Muslim extremists, more to show that Christianity suffers from the same problems. 9/11 is tied to Islam in the media, but the WBC, and the Norway massacre aren't. Muslim terrorists are called terrorists. Anders Behring Brevik is labelled a "right wing Christian fundamentalist". That's why.

 

[Azuremen]

Have you ever read the Quran? Or do you get your facts about Islam only from your muslim friends or your local imam?

What Islamic friends do you speak of? Well, I guess I have a couple now, but most of opinion on the issue is the result of my own research and studies, not from being spoon feed information from those with obvious bias.

But thank you for assuming.

What concerns me about Islam is that the 'verse of the sword' in the Quran, the one that obligates a muslim to kill or suppress non-believers, is chronologically the last revelation pertaining to non-believers.

Sura 9:5. Take note other parts of that Sura say to show mercy to those that have not wrong Muslims, and that God is merciful. In short, there is contradiction to some extent, as is found in most all religions.

But yes, it isn't the greatest verse. Of course, one could go to the Old Testament and "modern" declarations for equally brutal statements.

Also your point about Christianity having similar problems as modern-day islam a few centuries ago is too simplistic. Not all religions evolve the same. Just because you saw a pattern in one, doesn't mean it applies verbatim to the other. That is just a fatally wrong assumption.

Patterns in human culture arise for reasons. There are often points, in most all major histories, where religion and state have been much the same.

I also never said it applies verbatim, nor implied such a radically basic assumption. You seem to take people's statements and stretch them to extremes...

By the way, why does every topic about Islam devolve into accusations against other groups as a form of defence for Islam? It's like the playground argument that is repeated ad-nauseum. He did this-They did this-they were not punished-so i can do anything and i didnt do anything especially wrong. The thread is about Islam but I see the bible being discussed. WTF?

Hmm.

Oh yeah, they have the same God, many of the same prophets, and much of the criticism of Islam stems from those raised in a predominately Christian culture. Many people often judge and condemn others while turning a blind eye to their own history, which in turn just continues a cycle of ignorance. And kind of is assuming when Matthew 7:3 is considered. In no way does drawing parallels excuse the behavior of either; only a child would honestly think that way.

If you are curious as to my own beliefs, I'm an atheist. I have studied religion enough that I'm more aware of Christian history and ideals more than most Christians I know, and spent some time at university studying Islam, along with other religions. My personal favorite would be Buddhism at this time, since it tends to encourage some self thinking and discovery over blind faith in some "holy texts."

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

Wait till you see the control of Islamic authorities in my country. It's ridiculous. I mean that, seriously.

Of the many examples are 'operations to catch Muslim couples who get together on Valentines Day/New Year's Eve' and 'protesting performances/concerts by Westerners on the account of indecent dressing, eg: Beyonce'.

They literally have the right to arrest a Muslim for doing something that is against Islam. Not to the extent of skipping prayers and wearing headscarves but you get what I mean.

...in Malaysia? I'd expect something like that in Saudi...not Malaysia.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Buddhism ftw I have quite many Buddhist friends, I learned some of their teachings, no meat, no women, no booze, no killing, forgiveness, self cultivation, wisdom .... so many good things, I wonder if everyone is a Buddhist monk or nun, there won't be any more war ever ...

 

[aadil717]

Have you ever read the Quran? Or do you get your facts about Islam only from your muslim friends or your local imam?

What concerns me about Islam is that the 'verse of the sword' in the Quran, the one that obligates a muslim to kill or suppress non-believers, is chronologically the last revelation pertaining to non-believers. By the rule of abrogation, it cancels out every preceding revelation regarding infidels/kafirs that are used by 'moderate muslims' to show how 'peaceful' Islam is. The source for this is the Quran and Islamic texts themselves. Additionally, the Quran isn't arranged chronologically, but starts with the longest chapter and ends with the shortest. So you won't find this verse at the end.

Also your point about Christianity having similar problems as modern-day islam a few centuries ago is too simplistic. Not all religions evolve the same. Just because you saw a pattern in one, doesn't mean it applies verbatim to the other. That is just a fatally wrong assumption.

By the way, why does every topic about Islam devolve into accusations against other groups as a form of defence for Islam? It's like the playground argument that is repeated ad-nauseum. He did this-They did this-they were not punished-so i can do anything and i didnt do anything especially wrong. The thread is about Islam but I see the bible being discussed. WTF?

I have never heard or been told by anyone that is close to me that is Muslim, actually I've never heard any of this in ANY mosque I have been to that we should kill someone who doesn't believe in Islam. In fact, one thing I know is killing of innocent people is totally wrong.

As for the verse of "the sword"; you're way out of context if you're just picking that one infamous verse without looking around it. If you go to verse 1 (the Quran isn't random and it would make more sense if you read from start to finish).
It states that the Muslims at the time had signed a peace treaty with a tribe called Mushraks. Anyways to get to the point; they broke the treaty and this started a hostile period which eventually ended up breaking into a war and this verse was quoted in response to this.
Anyways, if you look at any of the translations, it mentions in the same verse that they can repent and be forgiven - so why would you kill them if you have this option? Surely there has to be a reason why it said slay - which I do believe is for war.
I don't believe in killing my friends or anyone else just because one verse is controversially translated in the Quran.

You can believe what you want to because your mind is set about what you want to believe so I can't change it, but at least I informed you from my point of view.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are kinda related and to be quite honest you're just making it more off topic by asking these questions which you know the answer to.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

Islam is just a religion. The issue is that the minority of followers spoil it for the majority. That and the western media being more than slightly biased against it, instead of educating people they poison their minds.

Buddhism ftw I have quite many Buddhist friends, I learned some of their teachings, no meat, no women, no booze, no killing, forgiveness, self cultivation, wisdom .... so many good things, I wonder if everyone is a Buddhist monk or nun, there won't be any more war ever ...

There is not really a 'no' in Buddhism.

One of my favourite quotes of Buddhas is -

“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”

True freedom to become a better version of yourself.

 

[kk20]

Buddhism ftw I have quite many Buddhist friends, I learned some of their teachings, no meat, no women, no booze, no killing, forgiveness, self cultivation, wisdom .... so many good things, I wonder if everyone is a Buddhist monk or nun, there won't be any more war ever ...

No women? Well I guess you're right when you say there'd be no war. Mostly because there'd be no mankind all together.

 

[Akmuq]

The best way to make money or cause a war is to make you're own religion, the rest of you are taking the internet-thing too seriously.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

No women? Well I guess you're right when you say there'd be no war. Mostly because there'd be no mankind all together.

No women means sexual abstinence for those who choose to do so, I knew this would happen, but yeah in Buddhism, there's no enforcement to be a monk/nun, it's all up to the person, but the teachings are all positive things. Like not indulging one self to the pleasure of the body ( self control ), avoid addiction to harmful habits, be mindful in words and actions, respect to elders, caring to the environment and animals, and so many other good stuff.

Head over here if you want to know what a lovely friendly caring people they are :

http://www.us.tzuchi.org/us/en/

They never look into your religion or race, they just want to spread the love and blessing, and they will never persuade or force you into their religion, something that other religion kept doing ( sometimes rather badly ).

 

[kk20]

No women means sexual abstinence for those who choose to do so, I knew this would happen, but yeah in Buddhism, there's no enforcement to be a monk/nun, it's all up to the person, but the teachings are all positive things. Like not indulging one self to the pleasure of the body ( self control ), avoid addiction to harmful habits, be mindful in words and actions, respect to elders, caring to the environment and animals, and so many other good stuff.

Head over here if you want to know what a lovely friendly caring people they are :

http://www.us.tzuchi.org/us/en/

They never look into your religion or race, they just want to spread the love and blessing, and they will never persuade or force you into their religion, something that other religion kept doing ( sometimes rather badly ).

So if everyone in the world chose to be a monk, there would be no mankind. Doesnt that seem a little strange?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

So if everyone in the world chose to be a monk, there would be no mankind. Doesnt that seem a little strange?

You didn't get it, being a monk is a free choice, nobody will push to become one, but you can choose to live like one while still having a family, that's what most Tzu Chi people do, they live the life full of compassion, caring others, doing good deeds for the society and environment, yet they still have great families at home, work like most people do, but they live for the good of others.

If near where you live there is a Tzu chi foundation, be a volunteer, spare a free time helping others, do something positive, there's no string attached, no questions about your beliefs, they will treat you like a family.

 

[MatskiMonk]

So if everyone in the world chose to be a monk, there would be no mankind. Doesnt that seem a little strange?

Yeah, but it also seems a little unlikely.

Having said that, most religions seem a bit iffy on where mankind started from so I'm sure God would just dump another Adam and Eve in Eden and we'd all be fine...

 

[kk20]

You didn't get it, being a monk is a free choice, nobody will push to become one, but you can choose to live like one while still having a family, that's what most Tzu Chi people do, they live the life full of compassion, caring others, doing good deeds for the society and environment, yet they still have great families at home, work like most people do, but they live for the good of others.

I know its a free choice. We've established that. What Im saying is, what if everyone chose to be a monk?