Islam - What's your view on it?

  • Thread starter SalmanBH
  • 5,688 comments
  • 237,025 views
You were made to believe that I was directing the conversation to say Muslims were the cause of Arab-Israeli strife whereas it is as simple as religious differences.

And it gave us such a delicious irony in the process.

@Scaff - I'm wondering is this is getting a bit off in here. The non-announcement of an edited quote in the post directly above perhaps being a good example. @ClydeYellow - I think that the standard "FTFY" could at least be included.
 
<...> The non-announcement of an edited quote in the post directly above perhaps being a good example. @ClydeYellow - I think that the standard "FTFY" could at least be included.

Whoops, my bad. I originally intended to further elaborate, but I must've sent the post inadvertently... I got my head in the clouds a bit as of lately. Post has been edited to comply at least with the bare minimum standards set by netiquette.
 
The Arab-Israeli wars had little to do with Islam and a lot to do with the Pan-Arabist design of Nasser, al-Sadat and their buddies. Which in its failing left the way open for religious fundamentalism - a good example of that would be the progressive loss of relevance of the PLO and the rise of Hamas (which isn't just a religious fundamentalist group, but I digress) in Palestine (or the dramatic assassination of al-Sadat himself by a member of the EIJ).

And need I remind you who funded many of the early Islamic jihadist groups in the 80s, especially in Afghanistan?
Bringing up Arab Nationalism and ignoring religion is like bringing up Nazism and ignoring white supremacy.
 
Daaaaaym... >_\\\
Just read about this in a newspaper:
http://rt.com/politics/265216-russia-beaches-moscow-muslims/

The reality, however, is: this idea was also supported by the Russian Orthodox Church and the Jewish and Buddhist communities. Too religious Orthodoxes are not much better than too religious Muslims. 👎:indiff:

Well, at least it's not about separating ALL beaches, just opening some "ethical beaches" with separate men and women zones.
 
Hmmm so I posted this article in another thread as an example of what I perceive is a global hardening of attitudes against Muslims. It covered the story of Tahera Ahmad's experience on a United Airlines flight and led to the flight attendant being banned from UA flights. However something didn't quite add up, so I looked a little deeper....

This was a post on a message board to do with flying. The poster also made subsequent posts in the thread:

"I was actually on this flight on Friday evening from ORD to DCA. I have been a reader of this forum for a long time but seeing this all over the news made me sign up so I could tell you what really happened here and hopefully stop this liar in her tracks. I was sitting close enough to her to hear everything that was said. The flight attendant came up to the lady (I believe she even took her order first in the entire cabin as she was seated in the bulkhead 7d) and took her order. She ordered a coke zero and a hot green tea with a Splenda. The flight attendant handed her a full diet coke with a cup on top and then told her that the green tea would take a few minutes and she would get it to her ASAP. The lady said very rudely and condescending to the FA that she ordered a coke zero and basically pushed the soda back to the flight attendant. The FA said she was sorry and attempted to find a coke zero for her (which she did not have many of) and told her that she could only give her a portion of the can not the full can. This is when the lady in question started to freak out and told the FA "What do you think I will use this as a weapon?! Why can't I have the whole can? I think you are discriminating against me. I need your name...." The lady just kept yelling to her "I need your name... I am being discriminated against." This is when a few passengers told her to calm down and one guy told her to "shut her mouth and she is being ridiculous over a can of coke". No one ever said anything anti-Muslim to her at all. She was the one who started screaming discrimination when she did not get what she wanted. The FA asked her numerous times if she would like anything else when the lady just basically pushed her away with a hand in her face. The lady then got onto her phone with her credit card and paid for the internet so she could start spinning this story on social media and she was never in tears. This person is a liar plain and simple and is just pulling the discrimination card."

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/24902619-post222.html

On an article following up the story I also found this comment:

"Don't believe this woman. My wife and I were on this flight. She was very rude and because she couldn't get a whole can of pop she flipped out and started pulling the discrimination card. Pathetic. I have since tried to contact the media and not one has gotten back to me to hear my side of the story. Just goes to show many media only care about controversy instead of factual information.."
http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/2...p-for-tahera-ahmad-and-the-bigotry-she-faced/

Remember that these are random accounts, and as such could be made up, although one seems to use a real name. It's interesting that they are on different sites yet tell the same story.

This update on her facebook (which was subsequently deleted) sounded suspicious, as I couldn't imagine pilots talking about their "white privilege". United Airlines disputed her claim that they didn't reach out to her
CGRWgTuU8AAE8cU.jpg


Searching further also led me to this video:



Now whatever you may think of Ms Ahmad (her links to radical Imams are enough of a turn off for me) if her events of the flight are true then it's inexcusable. However we need to be sure rash decisions aren't made the moment someone screams "Islamophobia" since it's an unfortunate truth the public are rapidly losing patience with Muslims (see all the comments in these articles) and stories such as this could serve to drown out more serious discrimination claims in future.
 
Last edited:
You're using someone's flight experience with United as an example? I take it you haven't flown with United. I'll fill you in: they really do make you feel like standing up and screaming at someone.
 
You're using someone's flight experience with United as an example? I take it you haven't flown with United. I'll fill you in: they really do make you feel like standing up and screaming at someone.
Don't you see? That's a problem for everyone. It's not because she was a Muslim.

Seeing the world through comment-streams is right up your street, I'd say.
That's the way you quantify what you see in the everyday world in 2015 - through comment streams, social media etc. There's no point using anecdotes taken from the workplace/street/university since on their own they're largely meaningless.

Imagine if that was an article on a black passenger. Do you think there would be so many facebook likes for a poster who said:

"Blacks are boycotting United. Sign me up to fly with them!"
 
Imagine if that was an article on a black passenger. Do you think there would be so many facebook likes for a poster who said:

"Blacks are boycotting United. Sign me up to fly with them!"

Yes, definitely. It wouldn't surprise me to find that there were plenty.
 
"The pilot also apologized for everything that happened and said that as a white male he recognized his privilege and said he didn't know what it must feel like to be a minority and go through something hateful like this."

:rolleyes:
 
"The pilot also apologized for everything that happened and said that as a white male he recognized his privilege and said he didn't know what it must feel like to be a minority and go through something hateful like this."

:rolleyes:
Do you believe it (white and/or male privilege) doesn't exist?
 
It exists, but for a pilot to come out and say that? Not surprising the facebook account was taken down.

I think everyone got taken for a ride by a serial offence taker, and the media don't want to show the full story.
 
Do you believe it (white and/or male privilege) doesn't exist?
In a world where affirmative action is considered an acceptable method to increase the number of minorities at a workplace, of course. Not to mention, I can hardly feel privileged when in this country, alleged hate crimes by white people are more likely to result in a punishment than if the perpetrator is from an ethnic minority.
 
However we need to be sure rash decisions aren't made the moment someone screams "Islamophobia"
I know what you're angling for - and I also know that you are the least-qualified person here to be making sure that those "rash decisions are not made". You accuse other people of jumping to Islamophobia too quickly, but I suppose that you would know it when you see it, given your obvious discomfort around anyone who isn't you.
 
Thing is why do you jump to conclusions so fast? This is what I hate about the opinions forums. Think about what you post first and think about what type of responses you'll get. But I need to look more into this story and see what's up in this.
 
Thing is why do you jump to conclusions so fast? This is what I hate about the opinions forums. Think about what you post first and think about what type of responses you'll get. But I need to look more into this story and see what's up in this.
Is this to me?
 
Is this to me?
It's not directed to to you in general but take it as some advice. But on Ms. Ahmad's topic, this Islamaphobia seems a bit too high, don't you think? So say I walk into a store with my shalwar kameez on and then someone yells TERRORIST! that'd be Islamaphobia not the flight attendant getting scared of her wearing a hijab while she's yelling at her that she wants Coke Zero and not Diet.
 
In a world where affirmative action is considered an acceptable method to increase the number of minorities at a workplace, of course. Not to mention, I can hardly feel privileged when in this country, alleged hate crimes by white people are more likely to result in a punishment than if the perpetrator is from an ethnic minority.
Have you ever worked or been to a university with affirmative action? What it means is that white people end up being the only ones taken at face value because people don't assume you got in on a policy. Anyone non white has to prove they belong, with white people it's just assumed.

White privilege isn't overt like the examples you've given. It's about me walking into a store with a backpack on and nobody giving me any trouble. It's about never having to worry about how I learned speak and my dialect of English being considered uneducated or "ghetto". It's about how since my first name is Joel, my resume will automatically be given more attention. It's about how

Anywhere I go I'll get the benefit of the doubt. White kids who get caught with a bit of pot get a slap on the wrist. Black kids go to jail. What I do doesn't reflect on my race, if I'm late for work my co workers don't attribute it to being white. If I do something rude, have poor hygiene, or dress poorly, it doesn't get attributed to my race. Nobody assumes when I go into a restaurant that I can't pay, and in Canada/America they don't assume I'll leave a bad tip.

A few months ago a white guy flew a plane into a mountain and killed a hundred people. Media talked about his depression, and the discussion was about mental health. When a white guy shoots up a school in America or an island full of young people in Norway it's about mental health. When muslims shoot cartoonists and police in Paris it's about "them" attacking free speech, about their culture, about the violence of Islam. We didn't talk about mental health when that happened.
 
A few months ago a white guy flew a plane into a mountain and killed a hundred people. Media talked about his depression, and the discussion was about mental health. When a white guy shoots up a school in America or an island full of young people in Norway it's about mental health. When muslims shoot cartoonists and police in Paris it's about "them" attacking free speech, about their culture, about the violence of Islam. We didn't talk about mental health when that happened
That's what I don't get. Why don't you guys assume that it's attacks and not mental health?! I could say more but AUP ya know ;)
 
I know what you're angling for - and I also know that you are the least-qualified person here to be making sure that those "rash decisions are not made". You accuse other people of jumping to Islamophobia too quickly, but I suppose that you would know it when you see it, given your obvious discomfort around anyone who isn't you.
Not really. If "Islamophobia" was made illegal, that flight attendant may have been arrested. Is that the type of country you would want to live in?

Before you say yes, consider the Ireland-England game that's playing now. My dad just made an off-hand comment: "The Paddies are coming!"

If there were someone of Irish descent, say, oh I don't know myself since my Nan is Irish should I be able to call for his arrest?
 
Last edited:
Not really. If "Islamophobia" was made illegal, that flight attendant may have been arrested. Is that the type of country you would want to live in?
Birthday cake birthday cake rocket ship spanner.








If you're going to respond to my post, could you at least try to respond to the issues raised rather than sprouting nonsense and pretending it's relevant?
 
Have you ever worked or been to a university with affirmative action? What it means is that white people end up being the only ones taken at face value because people don't assume you got in on a policy. Anyone non white has to prove they belong, with white people it's just assumed.

White privilege isn't overt like the examples you've given. It's about me walking into a store with a backpack on and nobody giving me any trouble. It's about never having to worry about how I learned speak and my dialect of English being considered uneducated or "ghetto". It's about how since my first name is Joel, my resume will automatically be given more attention. It's about how

Anywhere I go I'll get the benefit of the doubt. White kids who get caught with a bit of pot get a slap on the wrist. Black kids go to jail. What I do doesn't reflect on my race, if I'm late for work my co workers don't attribute it to being white. If I do something rude, have poor hygiene, or dress poorly, it doesn't get attributed to my race. Nobody assumes when I go into a restaurant that I can't pay, and in Canada/America they don't assume I'll leave a bad tip.

A few months ago a white guy flew a plane into a mountain and killed a hundred people. Media talked about his depression, and the discussion was about mental health. When a white guy shoots up a school in America or an island full of young people in Norway it's about mental health. When muslims shoot cartoonists and police in Paris it's about "them" attacking free speech, about their culture, about the violence of Islam. We didn't talk about mental health when that happened.

Fun fact; America/Canada isn't the entire planet, and even then you're making horrible generalisations, you make it sound as if every single black person no matter who they are or where they go are looked down on and treated unfairly. I also find it funny how you only mention the negative impacts of affirmative action on minorities and fail to mention people who don't get the job or uni spot they applied for because it was given to a less qualified person simply because the other guy was of an ethnic minority, surely that is equally important to talk about?

And as for your last paragraph, firstly I don't appreciate your racist suggestion that Muslim=non white, anyone can be Muslim. But more to the point, are you suggesting the Muslims who attacked the cartoonists weren't attacking free speech, and didn't attack them because they felt the cartoonists had insulted their prophet? But that instead the cause was mental illness?
 
Fun fact; America/Canada isn't the entire planet, and even then you're making horrible generalisations, you make it sound as if every single black person no matter who they are or where they go are looked down on and treated unfairly.

I grew up white in affluent middle-class areas. My sister grew up black in the same areas. Which one of us do you think received the most abuse based entirely on our appearance? If you need a hint... it wasn't me. Things have changed for the better in Britain in recent years but if you think that the institutional "racism doesn't happen because I don't see it" attitude isn't still around then you're wrong.
 
I grew up white in affluent middle-class areas. My sister grew up black in the same areas. Which one of us do you think received the most abuse based entirely on our appearance? If you need a hint... it wasn't me. Things have changed for the better in Britain in recent years but if you think that the institutional "racism doesn't happen because I don't see it" attitude isn't still around then you're wrong.

I'm not denying racism still exists at all, but you aren't automatically privileged for being white or disadvantaged for being non-white. People are treated unfairly and are victims of abuse for lots of reasons, and singling out racism towards minorities and saying whites are privileged is counter productive.
 
I'm not denying racism still exists, but you aren't automatically privileged for being white or disadvantaged for being non-white. People are treated unfairly and are victims of abuse for lots of reasons, and singling out racism towards minorities and saying whites are privileged is counter productive.

Incredible. I didn't think anybody could really believe that.
 
Do you know how privileged I am for ticking a box other than "White - British" on any application form? It's like a cheat card in life, and the reason I now tick "Prefer not to disclose"
 
Fun fact; America/Canada isn't the entire planet, and even then you're making horrible generalisations, you make it sound as if every single black person no matter who they are or where they go are looked down on and treated unfairly. I also find it funny how you only mention the negative impacts of affirmative action on minorities and fail to mention people who don't get the job or uni spot they applied for because it was given to a less qualified person simply because the other guy was of an ethnic minority, surely that is equally important to talk about?
I never said it was the whole planet. I could talk about how since I'm white nobody thinks twice about me in France even though I'm a foreigner who doesn't speak the language very well. That's a pretty distinct privilege of being white, I can go basically anywhere in western Europe and people don't look twice at me in public even though I'm just as foreign as someone from Syria and don't speak any language other than English or an intermediate level of French.

And yeah they are horrible generalizations. It's horrible that basically anywhere you go in the western world, resumes with non-white names on them get less attention. It's horrible that non-white people don't get the benefit of the doubt, have harder times getting jobs, have a harder time getting loans. It's horrible that non-white people are expected to speak on behalf of their entire race. White privilege doesn't mean you'll be wealthy and happy. It means that where you end up in life doesn't have to do with your race. I know my mediocre GPA is because I'm a mediocre student, not because I don't speak "proper". I know if I don't get a job offer it's because my resume isn't good enough, not that my name is foreign.
And as for your last paragraph, firstly I don't appreciate your racist suggestion that Muslim=non white, anyone can be Muslim. But more to the point, are you suggesting the Muslims who attacked the cartoonists weren't attacking free speech, and didn't attack them because they felt the cartoonists had insulted their prophet? But that instead the cause was mental illness?
My suggestion wasn't racist. I talked about a specific act of violence perpetrated by non-white muslims. I'm not suggesting anything, all I'm saying is that we don't give the benefit of the doubt to people who aren't white in the same way. I personally think the attack was motivated by people taking offense to the cartoonists, which to me is a pretty mentally ill way of responding to cartoons. The point is that a white guy flew a passenger jet into a mountain and we talked about depression, mental health, and airline security policies. We distanced the individual from the action.
 
Back