Israel - Palestine discussion thread

Here's the thing, I think Palestine does too. And, in this case, I think they have the moral right to the land. There seems to be a strong pro-Jewish media bias in the UK, the Palestinian civil losses are hardly mentioned whereas some Israeli funerals are shown live at length.
Of course they do. And they build the wall with good reason. And it works. But the darker side of Israel's sanction is that they are completely isolating the Palestinians with their actions. It is one thing to keep the Palestinians from getting weapons. It is on a whole other level when they deny them basic things like water, electricity and medication.
I know there are some actions going beyond self-defence. But you wouldn't leave it unanswered if rockets were fired on your streets and killed your people.

That's basically the same as saying that the guards in Auschwitz had the right to protect themselves from the prisoners.
Auschwitz's existence was not legal. Do you recognize Israel's right for existence?

map-story-of-palestinian-nationhood.jpg



Really?
When sit next to your TV or PC sipping beer, you might sympathize the Palestinians who "lost their motherland" (actually, there was no sovereign state on this area after the Kingdom of Israel and before Israel). But when buses explode on your streets and you see suspicious bearded men who seem to be dressed normally, but hang out with hijab wearers, you start quietly, and then - loudly dislike Arabs.

Besides, nobody needs Palestine as a sovereign Arabic state. Should I tell why?
 
And then a pro Palestinian rally gets serious out of hand in Paris, France.

A couple of thousand protesters marched through the city and tried to enter a couple of synagogues. Riot police had to break up the protest with quite some force.

Besides, nobody needs Palestine as a sovereign Arabic state. Should I tell why?

Do tell.
 
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And then a pro Palestinian rally gets serious out of hand in Paris, France.

A couple of thousand protesters marched through the city and tried to enter a couple of synagogues. Riot police had to break up the protest with quite some force.

The rally does not need to go into private property of people that they are fighting against and vandalize it.
 
Just wondering: You do realize that the Palestinians rejected the two state partition correct?

Yes, and it wasn't much of a surprise. Imagine your home state... and then the federal government say they're creating a new state across it for Canadians escaping persecution in the Le Mans thread.

Suddenly it's less of a Petrescu pet rescue kind of idea, the Canadians start taking over more land with their federally-funded armies and weapons. They also command a large vote (your state doesn't) and the ear of the media. How do you think it'll turn out? Fancy doing the deal?

There are strong arguments on both sides of this, of course :D

And Palestine has more fanatics? Seriously? Go check out Ariel Sharon to begin with... then just about all of Mossad... then most of the remainder of the army... Judaism is as fanatical a religion as Isla'am in orthodox territories.
 
So, you're a racist. Somehow I'm not surprised.
No, I just don't tolerate terrorism. I meant it in the context of "exploding buses" and pro-Palestinian active Arabs.

- Israel doesn't need it obviously. This is one thing to bomb separatists on your own territory, and another - to bomb another sovereign state.
- Israeli Arabs don't need it, too - despite of Israel's positioning as a Jewish state, there are 20% of Muslim goys living over there, and they even have their own parties in the Knesset. But Palestinian patriots talking about the "fifth convoy" of the heroic Palestinian state in the Satan's citadel should not rejoice - despite of the fact that the most of them profess Islam, local Arabs do not desire to join the Jihad, and even pal up with the Jews - the biggest motivator for it is Israel's highest standard of living on the whole Middle East and the total poverty of the Saint Land of Allah nearby.
- Arab and Muslim world. Why do they need a bunch of poor, angry, potential and quite real terrorists if they already have enough of their own? During the occupation of these territories by Egypt and Jordan from 1948 to 1967, they did NOTHING for creation of the "Palestine" state, although they had all opportunities.
- the USA. No oil, no economics, poor infrastructure - just expenses (plus Islamic radicalism+terrorism - again, they have enough of Afghanistan and Iraq).
- Russia - the same reasons as for the US.
- the so-called government of Palestine - the humanitarian aid from the whole world is constantly supplied, kickbacked and cut between all of the relatives, who live nicely in their mansions and drive luxury cars freely (the money stolen in the Palestinian Autonomy would be enough to seriously improve a country sized like Ukraine), Israel keeps supplying electricity and fuel for free - because it's Israeli territory. And what's important - they can always complain to UN, or the US, or Russia, or their richer Arab brothers, or even Isreal itself - they always have reasons and always can get some profit.
- Palestinians themselves. Why to bother and make better conditions for life if the evil Jews will make it all for you, give you work (you may surprise, but there are more and more Palestinian Arabs are working officially in the enemy stronghold - I mean Israel) and feed you? And you can still bomb those Jews for their kindness.

The talks about the "final peaceful regulation" are beneficial to everyone (each side has its own profit), but the real solution is not beneficial to anyone. Nuff said.

Imagine your home state... and then the federal government say they're creating a new state across it for Canadians escaping persecution in the Le Mans thread.

Suddenly it's less of a Petrescu pet rescue kind of idea, the Canadians start taking over more land with their federally-funded armies and weapons. They also command a large vote (your state doesn't) and the ear of the media. How do you think it'll turn out? Fancy doing the deal?
It's not a reason to launch Kassam rockets at civilian towns.
 
I know there are some actions going beyond self-defence. But you wouldn't leave it unanswered if rockets were fired on your streets and killed your people.
Have you looked at the numbers? I'm not approving of either side attacking each other, but those homemade rockets the Palestians fire of are only peanuts to the daily bombardments the Israeli's do which have cost hundreds of lives only in the last days. And now a nice ground invasion to top it off and make Palestine even more of a Berlin walled ruin.
 
and you see suspicious bearded men who seem to be dressed normally, but hang out with hijab wearers, you start quietly, and then - loudly dislike Arabs.

Dude, you're better than that.

...I just don't tolerate terrorism. I meant it in the context of "exploding buses" and pro-Palestinian active Arabs.

Fair enough, but you battle hard enough against generalisations in the Ukraine thread, it surprises me to see you fall for one here :D


Besides, nobody needs Palestine as a sovereign Arabic state. Should I tell why?

Of course, it's beyond question that you should ;)

I'm not here to defend Palestinian rockets falling in Israeli settlements, of course not. That said, I don't see that anything Palestine can do matches the scale of force that Israel brings to bear on Palestine. You think more Israelis are dying than Palestinians?

What is the basis for both to claim the land as their own ? Who lived there first ? Who made the first declaration ? How far back do we need to look into the past/history of land occupation ?

Now that IS complicated. Both indigenous peoples (ignore the influx of "returned" Jews to Israel from 1947 onwards) have a long history in the region. Palestine was a demarked area before Israel was... but it's very difficult to call.

The problem is that Israel has, rather than try to share, simply fenced off large areas, invaded extra bits and called in a large amount of finance in order to militarise itself to the the level of most first-world superpowers.
 
I'm not even going to start arguing with anyone here.
In my opinion, there's no black & white, just a very dark shade of grey.
Let them kill eachother, seems to be the only way this will ever end.
 
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I'm not even going to start arguing with anyone here.
In my opinion, there's black & white, just a very dark shade of grey.
Let them kill eachother, seems to be the only way this will ever end.

Well just think of it this way we all live on an island and its basically the survival of the fittest. Last man standing wins. I just hope this doesn't get out of hand kind of sad that all humans can't get along. The way humans will get extinct is by killing each other.
 
Some of you guys act as if these European Jews came to Palestine with flowers and candy and politely asked the Palestinians to share the land, and than the Palestinians just went on a rampage.

Maybe the Palestinians attack because some crazy people with state of the art equipment are OCCUPYING the land they live on and are trying to genocide them into oblivion? It doesn't matter what the Palestinians do. If they do nothing, the bulldozers come and take their land. If they DEFEND themselves, they get slaughtered and the bulldozers come and take their land.

Isrealhel won't stop until they have all of Palestine and I expect them to go even beyond that.

http://musliminsuffer.wordpress.com/2009/01/04/to-all-the-morons-who-say-palestine-never-existed-2/

Palestine never existed It was just land between two rivers where no one lived and god gave it to his chosen people…in other news the Americas were empty when the Europeans arrived and Native Americans are a myth made by the Liberal media.” -Official White Horse Source.
 
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In the past, I have jocularly advised that the US cancel the State of Israel. To atone for our foundational error, a New Israel would be set up on presently vacant and discontinuous lands in the states of Arizona, New Mexico, and Utah. :rolleyes:
 
In the past, I have jocularly advised that the US cancel the State of Israel. To atone for our foundational error, a New Israel would be set up on presently vacant and discontinuous lands in the states of Arizona, New Mexico, and Utah. :rolleyes:

They will never cancel the lunatic state. Somehow these genocidal maniacs were allowed to have nukes and now the whole world fears what they might do if they don't get their way.
 
It's so disturbing seeing a missile blow up an apartment in Gaza on live TV and then hearing the sirens of ambulances a few seconds later.
 
  • You will not post or link to content that is obscene or sexually oriented.
I won't post a video because this rule.

But after seeing a footage of a palestinian father and his death son (with his head open), I can't defend Israel. Israel isn't making war, but murdering people indiscriminately.

If you search palestinian father death son on youtube you'll find the video (42 seconds).
 
  • You will not post or link to content that is obscene or sexually oriented.
I won't post a video because this rule.

But after seeing a footage of a palestinian father and his death son (with his head open), I can't defend Israel. Israel isn't making war, but murdering people indiscriminately.

If you search palestinian father death son on youtube you'll find the video (42 seconds).
I hate watching videos like that and they are all over my Facebook news feed, but I really feel more people should watch videos like that. Maybe they will finally realize the hel people in Palestine have to deal with.

Funny thing happened, the lunatic apartheid state forgot to inform Hamas about the so called cease fire (basically a turd sandwich) and then got mad about Hamas not excepting the turd sandwich. Hamas apparently refused an offer they were never offered.
 
  • You will not post or link to content that is obscene or sexually oriented.
I won't post a video because this rule.

But after seeing a footage of a palestinian father and his death son (with his head open), I can't defend Israel. Israel isn't making war, but murdering people indiscriminately.

If you search palestinian father death son on youtube you'll find the video (42 seconds).

My Facebook and Twitter feeds have been filled with pictures of dead children, it's absolutely disgusting.

The sad thing is Egypt's officials dare not do anything, it's a shame having to live through these times when fellow Muslims are being killed and there is nothing someone is willing to do.
 
I hate watching videos like that and they are all over my Facebook news feed, but I really feel more people should watch videos like that. Maybe they will finally realize the hel people in Palestine have to deal with.

What people need to do is to put down the weapons, take a step back and look at the situation.

And then they need to ask themselves: "Now that I've seen the harm and suffering I create, what good does it do? Is it worth it? Is this what I want to spend my life doing?"


Go to bed world, sleep in peace.

 
The best thing the US can do is stay out. It's not worth being in a region that has been at war with itself for thousands of years. Just let them destroy themselves.
 
What people need to do is to put down the weapons, take a step back and look at the situation.

And then they need to ask themselves: "Now that I've seen the harm and suffering I create, what good does it do? Is it worth it? Is this what I want to spend my life doing?"

I wish more people were capable of greater rational thinking. There'd be a lot less arguing and pointless decrees.

  • You will not post or link to content that is obscene or sexually oriented.
I won't post a video because this rule.

But after seeing a footage of a palestinian father and his death son (with his head open), I can't defend Israel. Israel isn't making war, but murdering people indiscriminately.

If you search palestinian father death son on youtube you'll find the video (42 seconds).

Did you guys see a video recording of a funeral that got bombed? Camera person got everything: from the rite happening down the street, the explosion, and inanimate bodies all around. It was pretty graphic.

It's one to shoot someone for trying to enter areas deemed prohibited, but to bomb a group of people taking away that shot person? That's ruthless.
 
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  • You will not post or link to content that is obscene or sexually oriented.
I won't post a video because this rule.

But after seeing a footage of a palestinian father and his death son (with his head open), I can't defend Israel. Israel isn't making war, but murdering people indiscriminately.

If you search palestinian father death son on youtube you'll find the video (42 seconds).
And you don't believe that Hamas is trying to do exactly that by sending rockets into Israel? The only difference is that Israel does it so much better, just as they do everything better than those around them.
Hamas rockets sent to Israel don't have specific targets because they are incapable of doing so, so one day one may land in a kids school etc etc. And there would be very few tears shed in Palestine if that occurred.
Hamas and the residents of Palestine are reaping what they sowed.
 
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