Israel - Palestine discussion thread

UN will be the new world army. Expect to see more UN troops on streets in towns near you. ;)

We will enforce peace by bombing you.

-Secretary General of UN.

But hey if it stops the conflict from claiming more civilian lives, then I guess it's always an option.
 
We will enforce peace by bombing you.

-Secretary General of UN.

But hey if it stops the conflict from claiming more civilian lives, then I guess it's always an option.

Supposedly will be a ceasefire (or was one to begin) at 2 PM ET. I am honestly looking for the end of this entire operation but it begs to question if the naval blockade removal would actually create a path for peace? Would the Palestinians then believe that they can live in a more peaceful setting or will Hamas grasp at a victory and the next thing seen will be ships by the hundreds sailing in and bringing more weapons to Gaza? What if Hamas still decides to shoot rockets off even after the blockade is removed and there is a "peace agreement"?
 
Amen.

But like I said, when they don't want you to exist, but they won't admit to it on the record, resort to taking shots at you from middle of the town & crowds, or sneaky terrorist attacks, how do you resolve a conflict like that? It sure seems impossible.

When you can't beat an overwhelmingly superior force conventionally, the only thing left is alternative warfare.

It reveals a lot about Hamas and Israel that they would keep fighting at let innocent people die though. Bastards.
 
Supposedly will be a ceasefire (or was one to begin) at 2 PM ET. I am honestly looking for the end of this entire operation but it begs to question if the naval blockade removal would actually create a path for peace? Would the Palestinians then believe that they can live in a more peaceful setting or will Hamas grasp at a victory and the next thing seen will be ships by the hundreds sailing in and bringing more weapons to Gaza? What if Hamas still decides to shoot rockets off even after the blockade is removed and there is a "peace agreement"?

The only real way Hamas can be dealt a deathblow is by voting. Remember the Gazans voted for Hamas to represent them. So long as Hamas is calling the shots in Gaza, Israel would still apply corporal punishment.

As for the blockade, expect it to be there regardless of the truce agreements.
 
I think that the thread title should be changed to : The never ending story 3 : Israel vs the rest of the middle east.
 
I think that the thread title should be changed to : The never ending story 3 : Israel vs the rest of the middle east.

Perhaps the problem is the location of their state?

Perhaps we located them wrongly and should now realize this and move them to a safer place for one and all?

How about moving Israel onto federal lands in the states of Utah, Arizona or New Mexico? That region of America has an appropriately biblical look to it. :)

Respectfully submitted,
Steve
 
Perhaps the problem is the location of their state?

Perhaps we located them wrongly and should now realize this and move them to a safer place for one and all?

How about moving Israel onto federal lands in the states of Utah, Arizona or New Mexico? That region of America has an appropriately biblical look to it. :)

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

There was a Big Bang Theory episode that suggested relocating them to Mexico.
 
This power struggle is about control. Most likely money driven.

As well in the USA no troops are welcome on our streets. We have laws preventing out military from occupying our towns. So no way will a foreign army called UN gonna fly around here.

No one group had any rights to tell another what to do. You protect yourself yes. But leaving your yard to start trouble is bullying.

These inbred elites are nothing more then power hungry twerps.
 
The idea of Israel being in lands other than the one it is in now defeats the entire idea of Israel, which was having a state for Jews with Jerusalem as it's crown jewel.

I doubt Israel would be too enthusiastic about Salt Lake City.
 
The idea of Israel being in lands other than the one it is in now defeats the entire idea of Israel, which was having a state for Jews with Jerusalem as it's crown jewel.

I doubt Israel would be too enthusiastic about Salt Lake City.

Could they be convinced persuaded this was the destination of the lost tribes? :crazy:

Yours,
Steve
 
Perhaps the problem is the location of their state?

Perhaps we located them wrongly and should now realize this and move them to a safer place for one and all?

How about moving Israel onto federal lands in the states of Utah, Arizona or New Mexico? That region of America has an appropriately biblical look to it. :)

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

I love it. :cheers:
 
israel_stealing_palestine.jpg


Gee, I wonder why rockets are flying there!
 

I’m not really clear if that map is about land ownership or just that the two civilizations integrated.

It seems that Gaza is the only place there is trouble, and that is the least integrated place in Israel.

I’m so glad all of the immigrants to this country over the years learned to get along – It did take time though. We never fired rockets at each other though.
 
Saying that land is "yours" because you were there first is a pretty weak argument. A simple map showing change over time is a poor way to gain an understanding of the situation.
 
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The map is a rough indication of the situation. It doesn't even show the wall the Israelis have build.

Edit.

There was a bomb on a bus in Tel Aviv. Nobody killed but a lot of wounded people.
 
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Saying that land is "yours" because you were there first is a pretty weak argument. A simple map showing change over time is a poor way to gain an understanding of the situation.

Just as saying the land is "yours" because some book says so is a weak argument.
 

It's not quite incorrect, either - we just can't tell, which is the point the writer makes. However, in typical apologetic fashion, he continues:
What happened was that a piece of empty desert which had been under the control of the British Mandate (who got it after the Ottoman Empire fell apart) was awarded to the Jewish state. This is a question of political control, not land ownership.

I've bolded some of the problematic terms employed here. First of all, like Libya, or nearly anywhere in northern Africa, the 1940s—and for nearly 200 years prior, as can be historically accounted-for—era Palestine-region was home to numerous unzoned-landowners and nomadic groups. Because their relationship to land-ownership was traditional and hereditary, the arrangement they had with the former Ottoman Empire was informal. It did not proceed along the same lines as state-owned and administered land that recognized private property ownership as such.

When the British "got it" (ie took it), they immediately began their own policy not of expulsion, but of quasi-imperial incentivization within Great Britain, in order to entice jewish residents both at home (ie in Great Britain) and abroad (ie in Europe) to leave. This was bandied about with propaganda flyers much as they advertised the "rich land waiting to be settled" of the Americas—a land which we're all well-aware was fully inhabited by the various tribes of the Native Americans.

However, like the Americas, Palestine was not just an "empty desert". In fact, the British exploited this perception to great effect with the slogan they employed thus:
"A home without a people, for a people without a home".

Interestingly enough, the British Fascists Union greatly supported this slogan. . .

Don't believe for a second that the international support for a jewish homeland discrimination against jews has ever been well-intentioned.

Could somebody answer me this? In what other context—ever—has a race of people ever had a "home"? There sure are regional origins for various genetic haplo -types and -groups, but never has that ever been a case for their "return" to that place of origin, and this goes doubly for something as amorphous as a belief system.
 
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Just as saying the land is "yours" because some book says so is a weak argument.

The ancestors of the Jews inhabited the lands already 3000 years ago. There are Roman records of a Jewish kingdom in the area around 2000 years ago too. The Arabs invaded Byzantine Empire around 1000 AD (which caused the Crusades and Temple Knights' temporary control over Palestine in the 12th century until they were overrun) and the Arabs in the land of Palestine began calling themselves Palestinians as late as 20th century.

However it is stupid to base these arguments entirely on history. That way Germany could base claims on half of the land of Poland (because Pomerania, Silesia and Prussia are historic German territories) and the British for over one third of the entire world. Wars and foreign occupation have always defined the borders of countries, it is hypocritical to moralise Israel any more than China is because of Tibet (the Tibetans are being oppressed), Russia for Kuril Islands (the local Japanese are oppressed), and the US for the Native Americans (the Native Americans' land was stolen and they were relocated into reservates).

Oh, and regarding that map, in 1946 it was under British control, not "Palestinian". The West Bank was under the control of Jordan until 1967, not "Palestinian". The Gaza Strip was controlled by Egypt until 1967. The state of Palestine is barely a 24-year-old invention, not something that had been in place before 1947. The "Palestinians" are Arabs inhabiting the land of Palestine, and they have never had a sovereign state there.

Simply put, in world politics the land is owned by the country that has political and military control over the land, not some ethnic groups that have got the sympathies of some foreign people.
 
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The ancestors of the Jews inhabited the lands already 3000 years ago. There are Roman records of Jewish kingdom in the area around 2000 years ago too. The Arabs invaded Byzantine around 1000 AD and the Arabs in the land of Palestine began calling themselves Palestinians as late as 20th century.

However it is stupid to base these arguments entirely on history. That way Germany could base claims on half of the land of Poland (because Pomerania, Silesia and Prussia are historic German territories) and the British for over one third of the entire world. Wars and foreign occupation have always defined the borders of countries, it is hypocritical to moralise Israel any more than China is because of Tibet (the Tibetans are being oppressed), Russia for Kuril Islands (the local Japanese are oppressed), and the US for the Native Americans (the Native Americans' land was stolen and they were relocated into reservates).

Oh, and regarding that map, in 1946 it was under British control, not "Palestinian". The West Bank was under the control of Jordan until 1967, not "Palestinian". The Gaza Strip was controlled by Egypt until 1967. The state of Palestine is barely a 24-year-old invention, not something that had been in place before 1947. The "Palestinians" are Arabs inhabiting the land of Palestine, and they never have had a sovereign state there.

Simply put, in world politics the land is owned by the country that has political and military control over the land, not some ethnic groups that have got the sympathies of some foreign people.

+1:tup:
 
israel_stealing_palestine.jpg


Gee, I wonder why rockets are flying there!

Because they didn't want Israel there at all which they made known immediately after Israel was formally established, and the lands that they occupy have been marginalized each time they've tried to make that known since then; be it out of punishment or a need to establish a buffer zone or whatever. Or:

How does a defensive action result in the total conquest of someone else's lands?

When the someone else keeps attacking and keeps getting pushed back because the someone else didn't get the hint the first time.
 
Public'sTwin
Could somebody answer me this? In what other context—ever—has a race of people ever had a "home"? There sure are regional origins for various genetic haplo -types and -groups, but never has that ever been a case for their "return" to that place of origin, and this goes doubly for something as amorphous as a belief system.

This is something that always confused me too. I don't really understand the idea that jews "deserve" a home. It just seems strange that it's put that way.
 
Could somebody answer me this? In what other context—ever—has a race of people ever had a "home"? There sure are regional origins for various genetic haplo -types and -groups, but never has that ever been a case for their "return" to that place of origin, and this goes doubly for something as amorphous as a belief system.

Native Americans.

This is something that always confused me too. I don't really understand the idea that jews "deserve" a home. It just seems strange that it's put that way.

Of course it doesn't matter. It makes zero difference what the reasons were for the proper landowners to give Israel to those who are now Israelis. It was their choice, because they owned the land. All that matters at this point is that they made that choice.
 
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