Israel - Palestine discussion thread
- Thread starter Beeblebrox237
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- Murica
- BasedAckbar
Cease fire has been declared and is in effect. Both sides claiming victory, while still reserving harsh warnings to each other for future showdowns. Apparently the Obama crew, and Egypt get credit for deescalating this.
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- Canada
- DismissiveClOCK
Or international optics.
- 9,053
- Murica
- BasedAckbar
MÜLE_9242;7831973
People keep harping on Israel for the blockade, but yet seemingly leave Egypt out of that criticism as they too are blockading the Gazans.
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- Finland
- XoravaX
Yeah. Also, a land border blockade is completely legal. The sea blockade on the other hand is at least questionable - it is legal only if Israel owns the water body between Gaza and international waters or if the ships going there trespass Israeli waters. A country has the right to forbid ships using its waters or people passing through its borders. It might not be ethical given the situation of the citizens in Gaza, but UN cannot act against any country that doesn't explicitly break the international law - and possible actions would be illegal according to the laws.
- 31,469
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
Seeing that this is the latest Israel thread, most of you will have probably heard of the kidnapping of the 3 Israeli youths. They have been found dead in a field not far from where they were last seen.
The Israeli government already stated with serious consequences for Hamas.
Never ending story.
The Israeli government already stated with serious consequences for Hamas.
Never ending story.
- 20,630
- NJ/USA
- Blitzbay
- Blitzbay
I heard of it and to be honest I am not surprised they were found dead. They were more of a liability if anything to their kidnappers and unless it was ordered out by Hamas (it could have been), it would probably be not the best thing for your organization to do just a couple months after joining (taking over?) the PLO. I was hoping that they would somehow be rescued but when it occurred, in the back of my mind I knew that they were not going to be coming back from this alive. Sadly I was correct. The kids were reckless as well.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
That's how I recall it... I think the thorny issue was the way that Israel allotted Palestinian marine boundaries... ie by completely overlaying their own boundaries.
The boundaries make/made the blockade legal in the letter of international law but the net effect was a bit fishy. All Israeli fish, obviously.
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- NJ/USA
- Blitzbay
- Blitzbay
If Palestine had any interest in commercial activities then maybe the blockade would have been lifted. Many of them in the Strip have no interest in doing anything but giving a safe haven to those terrorists.
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- SalmanBH
You can't really blame them for wanting to make a difference. If you go to where they lived, take their land and call it yours and kick them out, those people you kicked out will obviously want their land back and will do anything they can to get it back whether it be through non-violent or armed means.
I'm not saying that I agree with what extremist groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah are doing, but it's all a matter of circumstance. If you keep playing fire with fire (IDF with the Palestinians), then you're going to get a **** storm.
Keef
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- GTP_KeefRacer
- GTP Keef
We don't send our money to protect Israel. We send our money to keep them from blowing everybody else up. Israel is perfectly capable of defending itself from any military in the region and then some. If we didn't force them to chill out there currently would not be a Gaza, West Bank, they'd probably have their way with Syria and they'd have all sorts of equipment parked at the border of the Sinai peninsula for good measure.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Gosh, that's really a game of two halves.
You could look at it the other way around and say that if the US and the UK hadn't led the creation of Israel and its borders then Palestine wouldn't feel like being "terrorists" and would just get on with life. Not only has Israel landed across them (from Palestine's point of view) but they've done it with very strong allies and a credible vote in the US Senate.
Palestine is being legally starved out of existence in a slow-burning religious war, so some might say. No surprise that they elect more and more extremist governments.
zzz_pt
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- zzz_pt
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Here's the thing, I think Palestine does too. And, in this case, I think they have the moral right to the land. There seems to be a strong pro-Jewish media bias in the UK, the Palestinian civil losses are hardly mentioned whereas some Israeli funerals are shown live at length.
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- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
Of course they do. And they build the wall with good reason. And it works. But the darker side of Israel's sanction is that they are completely isolating the Palestinians with their actions. It is one thing to keep the Palestinians from getting weapons. It is on a whole other level when they deny them basic things like water, electricity and medication.
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That's basically the same as saying that the guards in Auschwitz had the right to protect themselves from the prisoners.
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- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
There is also a small shift noticeable in how people view the Israeli - Palestinian conflict. Most of my life Israel could do very little wrong, but lately even our Dutch politicians (who all used to be Israeli buttscratchers) are placing question marks on Israel's ways of handling the situation. The pro Palestinian rallies are getting bigger in Europe, and even Jews are now slowly turning their backs to Israel's ways. I can see a time coming that the EU and USA will condemn Israel for all of it.
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- NJ/USA
- Blitzbay
- Blitzbay
Until Hamas is removed from power I can't see any sort of resolution. Hamas' rule for Israel is that it shouldn't exist (it is in their charter). Any state of Jewish people is not allowed (possibly no Jews are allowed either). Can't see any deal being done until something changes there.
zzz_pt
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- Porto living in Hamburg
- zzz_pt
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- NJ/USA
- Blitzbay
- Blitzbay
Yes, sadly its true. Both sides have too many fanatics. It's sadly more pronounced on the Palestinian side but there are too many Israelis advocating and opening their mouths to spout something stupid. 20 years ago I believed that there was only one side. I believe that both sides can co-exist but the fanatics need to be removed. I can only hope that if a Palestinian state does exist, it won't restrict freedom to all who enter.
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- GTP_Orido
What is the basis for both to claim the land as their own ? Who lived there first ? Who made the first declaration ? How far back do we need to look into the past/history of land occupation ?
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- NJ/USA
- Blitzbay
- Blitzbay
Depends who you ask. It's next to impossible to determine. If you look at both sides you will see some errors.
