Israel - Palestine discussion thread

[BobK]

God knows, that's why He is God. It doesn't change the fact that you don't know what to expect next. You might call on Christ next month. This is the point you ignore. You see, God saw everything that would take place, hence allowing it to happen, because it was worth it.

God can stop your free will, but won't, because He has given you a choice to make. The world and the things of this world, or Salvation in His Son. The world will die, even science confirms it, whether today or a million years from now.

Without the tree of knowledge, or satan's pride, we would all be like zombies today, forced to worship God without choice. This is the difference between religion (seeking a god), and Christianity (Relationship with God/Holy Spirit)

Let's try this again. You said, NOTHING can stop satans way of thinking[emphasis added]. I pointed out that if
God were truly omnipotent as you and others claim, then He could stop Satan's way of thinking. So which is it? Are you wrong about one or are you (and others) wrong about the other?

If it's known what the choice will be then it's not really a choice; the person is at best following a pre-ordained script. To use your own words here:

I can't see how some people fail to grasp and understand this simple logic.

 

[Blitz24]

So God makes people suffer so He can reward them later? If God created the universe and everything in it, then He also created that which causes people to suffer.


But if God is omniscient there can be no free will since He already knows what we will decide. At best we have the illusion of free will. This has been pointed out to you before and you ignored it.


So God can't stop it? Isn't He supposed to be omnipotent as well as omniscient?

Yes. God created the cause of suffering, so it can be argued it is a test to see how strong man is. Apologies if I am going too far off-topic.

 

[DCP]

Let's try this again. You said, NOTHING can stop satans way of thinking[emphasis added]. I pointed out that if
God were truly omnipotent as you and others claim, then He could stop Satan's way of thinking. So which is it? Are you wrong about one or are you (and others) wrong about the other?

If it's known what the choice will be then it's not really a choice; the person is at best following a pre-ordained script. To use your own words here:

I said nothing, not "NO ONE". I told you, God can, but won't, because all will be judged for the works of their heart.
We don't have an endless amount of choices as far as life and death is concerned. You live then you die. So what do you want to do before you die? Live with the world and the things of the world, and die with it, or receive the free gift of salvation? There is nothing pre-ordained here. It's one or the other. It's a free will choice.

If you are honest with yourself, you will be able to tell me, "no thanks DCP, but I'm happy with the world as my choice", then this conversation doesn't have to start again, or you can put your pride aside and not worry about who's reading, and say, "Help me to receive this God that brings joy to the heart. This joy that the world can't give"

@Blitz24 God didn't create suffering. His creation (man), chose suffering. If man chooses to receive knowledge of good and evil, trust me, he will receive all the good, and all the evil there is to receive, from a Perfect and Just God, who honours free will.

 

[UKMikey]

Dear me.

 

[DQuaN]

This is probably better off in the "Do you believe in god" thread.

Was your question answered @BobK?

 

[BobK]

This is probably better off in the "Do you believe in god" thread.

Was your question answered @BobK?

It was not, which is of course no surprise.

 

[Neddo]

I wonder, if I buy and Audi, does Lamborghini earn money?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I wonder, if I buy and Audi, does Lamborghini earn money?

Am I missing something, what does this have to do with Israel relations in Gaza? Did Lambo manufacturing get moved to Israel to pay for bombs to potentially strike terrorist in Gaza or else where?

 

[Neddo]

Am I missing something, what does this have to do with Israel relations in Gaza? Did Lambo manufacturing get moved to Israel to pay for bombs to potentially strike terrorist in Gaza or else where?

No it's a question which I never understood. Lambo/Audi is just an example. Because it's wierd to someone boycotting Chevrolet yet they buy Opel. Do they support Chevrolet in any way?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

No it's a question which I never understood. Because it's wierd to someone boycotting Chevrolet yet they buy Opel. Do they support Chevrolet in any way?

I think you mean GM since GM is who owns Opel and Chevy. Thus yes GM makes profit because Opel made profit from the sale of said vehicle, but that doesn't effect Chevy profit or sales because it wasn't a Chevy car sold. Same with your question. VAG owns both and thus VAG makes profit because a VAG auto manufacture sold a car, said manufacture makes money because they sold one of their cars, Lambo doesn't make money. However, what ever that sales money goes towards could help Lambo somewhere down the line.

If people are going to actually boycott a manufacture then they might as well boycott the parent group. Because buying an Audi may as well be like buying a Lambo in certain aspects. Such as if I buy an R8 I have shared parts between it an a Hurican. If I buy an A4 it shares parts with VW cars. So on and so forth.

 

[Neddo]

I think you mean GM since GM is who owns Opel and Chevy. Thus yes GM makes profit because Opel made profit from the sale of said vehicle, but that doesn't effect Chevy profit or sales because it wasn't a Chevy car sold. Same with your question. VAG owns both and thus VAG makes profit because a VAG auto manufacture sold a car, said manufacture makes money because they sold one of their cars, Lambo doesn't make money. However, what ever that sales money goes towards could help Lambo somewhere down the line.

If people are going to actually boycott a manufacture then they might as well boycott the parent group. Because buying an Audi may as well be like buying a Lambo in certain aspects. Such as if I buy an R8 I have shared parts between it an a Hurican. If I buy an A4 it shares parts with VW cars. So on and so forth.

Now I wonder, if I buy a Land Rover, does Jaguar profit. Jaguar Land Rover does profit but what about the sole company?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Now I wonder, if I buy a Land Rover, does Jaguar profit. Jaguar Land Rover does profit but what about the sole company?

Tata owns both so, I'm still confused as to why it's important to this thread. Could at least answer that, what boycott are you worried about?

 

[Neddo]

Tata owns both so, I'm still confused as to why it's important to this thread. Could at least answer that, what boycott are you worried about?

No, Jaguar and Land Rover brands are owned by Jaguar Land Rover company. It's extremly confusing to find Land Rover on boycott list yet no Jaguar. So the question is can Jaguar brand (directly) earn money if Land Rover sells a car? Land Rover sold/donated (I don't know which more) lots of Defenders to Israel (and many other countries) for military use so that's why it's on boycott lists.

 

[ryzno]

I'd assume yes, at the end of the day all the different companies money still goes in the same pot.

 

[Dennisch]

No

Yes.

 

[Neddo]

Yes.

Yes Tata owns both lol

Well using this logic probably few brands wouldn't be boycotted. Or even they should just boycott everything.

So far as I understood, buying a Rangie would give money to Land Rover and all upper companies but Jaguar would only get that money when the higher company, Tata, decides to? Unless sharing factories, parts or showrooms, give money directly to Jaag? I don't think that Jaguar gets anything when Defender ends up in some military.

I just want to know this stuff to see if boycott movement is just even more wierd.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

No, Jaguar and Land Rover brands are owned by Jaguar Land Rover company. It's extremly confusing to find Land Rover on boycott list yet no Jaguar. So the question is can Jaguar brand (directly) earn money if Land Rover sells a car? Land Rover gave lots of Defenders to Israel (and many other countries) for military use so that's why it's on boycott list.

Thanks @Dennisch, like he posted, also I'll forget more about cars than most people will ever know.

As for the boycott...who cares really, the defense side of thing and the public buyer side of things means very little to one another. Plenty of VIPs and dignitaries in countries unlikable to many own Sentinels. Why should Rover lose your sale, because of vehicles they long sold to a Country you disagree with?

I'd say any boycott is pretty ludicrous considering the geopolitics involved with companies and governments to begin with. For example, many don't like how Coke operates as a company, yet one of the biggest sponsors every four years to IOC is Coca Cola. Through their various drinks, thus a person who stopped buying coke still gives into coke just through ad revenue alone in watching the Olympics. Now your case it's a lot more easy to avoid because it's a car, but the point is there is probably plenty of other products that you can't avoid, so why bother with the more obvious ones?

 

[Neddo]

So far as I understood, buying a Rangie would give money to Land Rover and all parent companies but Jaguar would only get that money when the higher company, Tata, or even Land Rover decides to, in case of crisis or assistance? Even if Jaguar and Land Rover are sharing factories, parts or sharing something else like importers (Israeli and maybe more countries importers of both will merge soon, although it may not be enough for Jaguar to be on boycott list) or selling place? Am I correct?

On the other hand, Mitsubishi is so ****ing weak today, even though on boycott list its at the very top, sharing it with other "evil" corporations, and by boycotter logic its more powerful than a friggin fca (no Fiat or Dodge on boycott list. So far). "Also Nissan just saved it so let's add Nissan, Renault, Samsung to boycott list just because of that." This is classic extreme boycotter logic. And many other weak companies exist on the list.

Also many different lists exist and they can't agree to boycott Volvo Cars.

On the third hand, there are better (and tastier IMO the main reason) alternatives to Coca-Cola company drinks. That's why Coca Cola isn't the one I buy and consume often, comparing to other drinks. Just because someone doesn't buy something it doesn't mean that reason is being featured on boycott lists.

 

[justin credible]

[QUOTE="DCP, post: 11470660, member: 41174"


@Blitz24 God didn't create suffering. His creation (man), chose suffering. If man chooses to receive knowledge of good and evil, trust me, he will receive all the good, and all the evil there is to receive, from a Perfect and Just God, who honours free will.[/QUOTE]

 

[Blitz24]

So far as I understood, buying a Rangie would give money to Land Rover and all parent companies but Jaguar would only get that money when the higher company, Tata, or even Land Rover decides to, in case of crisis or assistance? Even if Jaguar and Land Rover are sharing factories, parts or sharing something else like importers (Israeli and maybe more countries importers of both will merge soon, although it may not be enough for Jaguar to be on boycott list) or selling place? Am I correct?

On the other hand, Mitsubishi is so ****ing weak today, even though on boycott list its at the very top, sharing it with other "evil" corporations, and by boycotter logic its more powerful than a friggin fca (no Fiat or Dodge on boycott list. So far). Also Nissan just saved it so let's add Nissan, Renault, Samsung to boycott list just because of that. This is classic extreme boycotter logic. And many other weak companies exist on the list.

Also many different lists exist and they can't agree to boycott Volvo Cars.

On the third hand, there are better alternatives to Coca-Cola company drinks. That's why I avoid Coca-Cola.

Hey if you keep boycotting things you will just become a backwards recluse.

 

[DCP]

[QUOTE="DCP, post: 11470660, member: 41174"


@Blitz24 God didn't create suffering. His creation (man), chose suffering. If man chooses to receive knowledge of good and evil, trust me, he will receive all the good, and all the evil there is to receive, from a Perfect and Just God, who honours free will.

I choose good every week yet never win the lottery am I supposed to be happy because there is always someone worse off than me? Is that my good being given to me?
If so the majority of the population should be happy because someone else is suffering more than them? Bit of a sadistic view really isn't it. I choose evil on people who deserve it yet nothing ever happens to them.

You seriously think when you die you will go to a better place? A heaven or what ever of if a person is bad they go to hell?
Can I ask not where you learnt this but why you believe it to be true.[/QUOTE]

This link http://creation.com/is-god-inconsistent could answer your question, but yes, off course I believe that. I cant see how people who inflicted all kinds of evil acts, cannot be judged for it. I cannot see how those who are faithful to God, must just lay in waste, because of some evil cult who decided to kill them for not accepting islam. Just like man has his justice system, God is just, and has proven his judgment on the earth, over sin and wickedness throughout.

 

[Neddo]

Hey if you keep boycotting things you will just become a backwards recluse.

Yes maybe we should boycott GTPLANET because Jews can be members . Ok enough with this boycott madness. (Extreme especially)Boycotters are so confusing and we'll just waste time. I don't trust those boycott lists.

 

[FoRiZon]

Yes maybe we should boycott GTPLANET because Jews can be members . Ok enough with this boycott madness. Boycotters are so confusing and we'll just waste time. I don't trust those boycott lists.

If you want to protest the country, protest the government, not the companies that resides on it.

Otherwise people will stop buying Apple products to protest the Obamacare.

 

[Neddo]

If you want to protest the country, protest the government, not the companies that resides on it.

Otherwise people will stop buying Apple products to protest the Obamacare.

I never said or gave any signs I want to boycott or protest anything, and if I did I was joking (probably never AFAIK) (EDIT 1 September 2016, well besides some companies that I don't buy for other reasons that just happen to be on boycott list). I just asked questions, put some example companies (both from lists and out. not all companies are unconnected in any way, like sharing same parent company, to popular companies from boycott lists. Well all are connected in paranoid lists that include all lists and beyond while there are many who say that only boycott list(s) matter) and talked about weirdness of this movement. This movement lacks sense kinda, and because of multiple lists, I am confused. Too contradictious. I simply don't boycot anything on the lists because of these and others not mentioned , too.

However, if there are reasons of not buying something, they are outside of this theme and discussion, that's a totally different story. For example simple taste or quality downgrade are good reasons why someone doesn't buy something .

 

[FoRiZon]

I never said I want to boycott or protest anything, and if I did I was joking . I just asked a question and talked about weirdness of this movement. I am against boycotting too.

Well Im just stating my opinion lol. Its basically the summary XD

 

[justin credible]

I choose good every week yet never win the lottery am I supposed to be happy because there is always someone worse off than me? Is that my good being given to me?
If so the majority of the population should be happy because someone else is suffering more than them? Bit of a sadistic view really isn't it. I choose evil on people who deserve it yet nothing ever happens to them.

You seriously think when you die you will go to a better place? A heaven or what ever of if a person is bad they go to hell?
Can I ask not where you learnt this but why you believe it to be true.

This link http://creation.com/is-god-inconsistent could answer your question, but yes, off course I believe that. I cant see how people who inflicted all kinds of evil acts, cannot be judged for it. I cannot see how those who are faithful to God, must just lay in waste, because of some evil cult who decided to kill them for not accepting islam. Just like man has his justice system, God is just, and has proven his judgment on the earth, over sin and wickedness throughout.[/QUOTE]


I have read the link and I think you are missing my point, I am not judging you or anyone else who wants to believe what ever they want
I read the link as I said and it is just hear say to me someone wrote it the same as Robert Louis Stevenson wrote Treasure Island, I think you can see where I am going here, I need proof in front of my own eyes to make me a believer I don't understand why by reading a book like the bible can make someone believe it is all true and god is real and the be all.
I see it as when we are children religion is brain washed as to say in to us and that is why it is believed, the bogey man is something used as a scare tactic when we are young yet even in adulthood we know the bogeyman is a myth yet a lot of people still have an subconscious fear going in to dark places etc. Is this the same with the god thing? a fear of daring to say hang on that is not right to me?
We know the tooth fairy and (thanks to johnnypenso) santa is a myth from childhood so why still believe a man in the sky is watching over us and will take us to the promised land if we are kind and decent to our fellow man?
I would love to know apart from choice what it is that makes someone when they reach adulthood and can think for them selves why they choose to believe in a god when in reality no proof exists.

That line above in bold is that you saying god is going to intervene and put and end to the troubles with radicalisms of religion?
Or is it you crying out for the non believers in islam to bear arms and destroy the radicals?
Please give me the opportunity of understanding the way a mans mind works when he is totally devoted to a god like you are as I struggle to grasp the whole idea.👍

 

[Neddo]

I wonder people who boycott a company and still emulate a console, do they contradict themselves

 

[Blitz24]

I wonder people who boycott a company and still emulate a console, do they contradict themselves

Using the product and not paying for it doesn't make them contradict themselves, it makes them thieves. Even more ironic because they claim Israel is the thief.

 

[Neddo]

Using the product and not paying for it doesn't make them contradict themselves, it makes them thieves. Even more ironic because they claim Israel is the thief.

Agree. but some boycotters do really boycott even emulatin or even to mention a certain product

 

[Blitz24]

Agree. but some boycotters do really boycott even emulatin or even to mention a certain product

Again, if you use said product, you have contradicted yourself.