Israel, who really owns it?
- Thread starter Delirious
- 154 comments
- 4,205 views
- 2,767
Then I would appreciate that at least you'd stay polite, especially considering your age.
You've been told already to calm down, use the edit button instead of doing multiple post, and that while we understand that you're 12 years old, you should relax a bit do some reading and research before hastily posting random thoughts that comes to your mind, especially in that section of the forums. Reading what you just wrote just before you click "submit" is also a good idea.
Not doing these things is a one way ticket to the banned user log, you're free to do as you wish.
You've been told already to calm down, use the edit button instead of doing multiple post, and that while we understand that you're 12 years old, you should relax a bit do some reading and research before hastily posting random thoughts that comes to your mind, especially in that section of the forums. Reading what you just wrote just before you click "submit" is also a good idea.
Not doing these things is a one way ticket to the banned user log, you're free to do as you wish.
- 26,628
- OREGON
- a6m5zero
They'd be cool sig, but Duke will never let something this big slide.Rogue Ssv
Again I agree, but I'm not sure if it's the "majority" of people wanting a fight. I'd go with 50/50, but then again, I don't know too many people from Middle East, and none of them too well. As for Israel, I expected better from them. Granted, I'm armchair quaterbacking, and if neighboring countries were always looking to overrun my country, I guess I'd be defensive too. But I believe that Israelis are the only ones that can lead everybody out of this mess. I think that they are moving in the right direction, but it seems like it's taking too long.ledhed
- 26,628
- OREGON
- a6m5zero
Duke is one of the guys in charge here. I do agree with your take. Extremists are using religion for their war, I believe that there are many civilians who just want to go on with their lives.Rogue Ssv
P.S. I'd listen to Carl. He's just trying to help.
- 2,767
Rogue SsvThats so kind
I did 'do a bit of reading and reasearch', I reasearched the formation of Israel, what Israel means, Zionists, and at least 5 other things.
And what do you mean 'especially considering your age'?!
My girlfriend has a daughter that is your age. What would your friends parents, or teachers do if you told them to shut up?
Showing enthusiasm and interests for politics at your age is something great. Just take it easy, and read twice what you post (what is that drawing doing there, a few posts above??), and please use the edit button instead of doing multiple posts.
The tone of my post above is due to fact that you've already been asked to do these things.
Edit: (<-- see?)
and what is that drawing doing there again? ^^
- 26,628
- OREGON
- a6m5zero
A lot of things were done in the name of religion, but I'd like to think that: a) They happened long time ago, most of us has learned from our past. b) Those people were going to do horrible things anyway.GT4_Rule
Some takes this argument to the extreme, like if there were no religion, there wouldn't have been any wars. I beg to differ. I think we'd still have fought over the land, diputes, riches, etc., making our history just as bloody even without any religions.
- 87,574
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Rogue Ssv - I'm going to say this once and once alone.
You are heading down a road with only one possible ending - that where a moderator hits the "Ban User" button.
Please calm down. The Opinions forum works differently to other parts of the site (though not that differently). Take time to consider your posts - are they on topic, are they relevant, are they worth posting at all? Whether you like someone or not is not relevant to debating - Swift, danoff, Duke, Zrow, BX, Ten, Delirious_XVII, Zardoz and I have had some quite spectacular discussions on all sorts of topics. Whether I like them or not makes no difference to my points, and their points make no difference on whether I like them or not. What goes on in Opinions STAYS in Opinions.
DO NOT make double- and triple-posts - this applies to the site as a whole too. Instead use the EDIT button which can be found in the lower-right corner of each of your posts to add further points to your existing post.
I suggest that, for the time being, you limit your participation in this part of the site to reading, rather than posting. You may learn a lot from the posters here - most specifically danoff and Duke, who have logical reasoning skills - and the ability to express them - everyone could learn from, even if you don't necessarily agree with their positions on certain subjects.
It's gratifying that you ARE interested in this part of the site at such a (comparatively) young age, but I think you, and we, would get more out of it by watching - for now.
You are heading down a road with only one possible ending - that where a moderator hits the "Ban User" button.
Please calm down. The Opinions forum works differently to other parts of the site (though not that differently). Take time to consider your posts - are they on topic, are they relevant, are they worth posting at all? Whether you like someone or not is not relevant to debating - Swift, danoff, Duke, Zrow, BX, Ten, Delirious_XVII, Zardoz and I have had some quite spectacular discussions on all sorts of topics. Whether I like them or not makes no difference to my points, and their points make no difference on whether I like them or not. What goes on in Opinions STAYS in Opinions.
DO NOT make double- and triple-posts - this applies to the site as a whole too. Instead use the EDIT button which can be found in the lower-right corner of each of your posts to add further points to your existing post.
I suggest that, for the time being, you limit your participation in this part of the site to reading, rather than posting. You may learn a lot from the posters here - most specifically danoff and Duke, who have logical reasoning skills - and the ability to express them - everyone could learn from, even if you don't necessarily agree with their positions on certain subjects.
It's gratifying that you ARE interested in this part of the site at such a (comparatively) young age, but I think you, and we, would get more out of it by watching - for now.
Rogue Ssv
(Banned)
- 1,448
Sorry for triple posting and telling Carl to shut up. I just dont like comments about age. 'Oh thats not a bad drawing considering your age', 'oh considering your age you shouldnt be talking.'
@Carl-sorry my brain was high on gas from a gas leak. And it was 3am. My parents would yell at me, my teachers would yell at me and my friends wouldnt do anything.
I like this place and dont wanna get banned but a lot of people here seem not to like me...
So Ill try to be more polite, and be nicewr instead of acting like in real life-cursing all the time and telling people to 'shut the (...) up' I hope I can stop upsetting people, sidetracking the thread, and not get banned.
So, about Israel, where were we?
About religions doing stupid acts of violence and/or stupidity: thats true, but like A6M5 just said, without religion we'd still end up fighting over land, resources, riches, and anything else we could find an excuse for.
But the Arabs and Jews still seem to be trying to kill each other for their 'holy city' of Jerusalem. Apparently they havent learned from their past. Ive said it before (or actually someone else beat me to it) and Ill say it again, the only good solution is for them to learn to live together in peace, like they did before the UN stepped in and said 'OK we're taking this land and putting Jews on it'. I think the Arabs only started to hate the Jews when the UN did that. It wouldve pissed me off too.
Either that or:
a) let them kill each other until theres no one left to live anywhere
b) have the UN commit another unforgivably stupid act and take Israel, kick out all of the Arabs and Jews, and blow it up or put other people in it.
....None of which are good solutions.
As for my posts lateley, Im trying people, its just that this is one of the most organized and least pointless forum sites ive ever been to, and Im used to cursing, saying shut up or worse, and deca-posting.
@Carl-sorry my brain was high on gas from a gas leak. And it was 3am. My parents would yell at me, my teachers would yell at me and my friends wouldnt do anything.
I like this place and dont wanna get banned but a lot of people here seem not to like me...
So Ill try to be more polite, and be nicewr instead of acting like in real life-cursing all the time and telling people to 'shut the (...) up' I hope I can stop upsetting people, sidetracking the thread, and not get banned.
So, about Israel, where were we?
About religions doing stupid acts of violence and/or stupidity: thats true, but like A6M5 just said, without religion we'd still end up fighting over land, resources, riches, and anything else we could find an excuse for.
But the Arabs and Jews still seem to be trying to kill each other for their 'holy city' of Jerusalem. Apparently they havent learned from their past. Ive said it before (or actually someone else beat me to it) and Ill say it again, the only good solution is for them to learn to live together in peace, like they did before the UN stepped in and said 'OK we're taking this land and putting Jews on it'. I think the Arabs only started to hate the Jews when the UN did that. It wouldve pissed me off too.
Either that or:
a) let them kill each other until theres no one left to live anywhere
b) have the UN commit another unforgivably stupid act and take Israel, kick out all of the Arabs and Jews, and blow it up or put other people in it.
....None of which are good solutions.
As for my posts lateley, Im trying people, its just that this is one of the most organized and least pointless forum sites ive ever been to, and Im used to cursing, saying shut up or worse, and deca-posting.
- 6,447
Rogue SsvSorry for triple posting and telling Carl to shut up. I just dont like comments about age. 'Oh thats not a bad drawing considering your age', 'oh considering your age you shouldnt be talking.'
@Carl-sorry my brain was high on gas from a gas leak. And it was 3am. My parents would yell at me, my teachers would yell at me and my friends wouldnt do anything.
I like this place and dont wanna get banned but a lot of people here seem not to like me...
So Ill try to be more polite, and be nicewr instead of acting like in real life-cursing all the time and telling people to 'shut the (...) up' I hope I can stop upsetting people, sidetracking the thread, and not get banned.
So, about Israel, where were we?
About religions doing stupid acts of violence and/or stupidity: thats true, but like A6M5 just said, without religion we'd still end up fighting over land, resources, riches, and anything else we could find an excuse for.
But the Arabs and Jews still seem to be trying to kill each other for their 'holy city' of Jerusalem. Apparently they havent learned from their past. Ive said it before (or actually someone else beat me to it) and Ill say it again, the only good solution is for them to learn to live together in peace, like they did before the UN stepped in and said 'OK we're taking this land and putting Jews on it'. I think the Arabs only started to hate the Jews when the UN did that. It wouldve pissed me off too.
Either that or:
a) let them kill each other until theres no one left to live anywhere
b) have the UN commit another unforgivably stupid act and take Israel, kick out all of the Arabs and Jews, and blow it up or put other people in it.
....None of which are good solutions.
As for my posts lateley, Im trying people, its just that this is one of the most organized and least pointless forum sites ive ever been to, and Im used to cursing, saying shut up or worse, and deca-posting.
Good post, that the best one I have seen by you so far! Keep it up like this, d00d!
As for religions - we can be sure that people will continue to massacre each other even without a religion. Hitler killed several hundred million Jews out of pure hatred for them, and that wasnt motivated by religion. But those who use religion and the name of God to commit those crimes, such as suicide bombing are generally far worse than non-religiously motivated ones (one big exception, Hitler) because they can justify the massacre continuously in name of God.
I hope you catch what I mean......
Rogue Ssv
(Banned)
- 1,448
Not the best one. The best one was explaining how Israel was formed.
As for this 'keeping it up', Ill try.
Ah, Ill never be able to put my thoughts into words as well as that, gt4rule. I agree completely with you.
I wonder if God's getting pissed that theyre blaming it on him/her? Must be, he's let them kill themselves over and over again.
Then again they also killed other people.
Killing 'in the name of God' is really stupid. Ive said it before, and Ill say it again: dont most religions tell you NOT to blow the **** out of people you dont like/yourself?
Hey Famine--Ive just realized who you remind me of: my mom.
As for this 'keeping it up', Ill try.
Ah, Ill never be able to put my thoughts into words as well as that, gt4rule. I agree completely with you.
I wonder if God's getting pissed that theyre blaming it on him/her? Must be, he's let them kill themselves over and over again.
Then again they also killed other people.
Killing 'in the name of God' is really stupid. Ive said it before, and Ill say it again: dont most religions tell you NOT to blow the **** out of people you dont like/yourself?
Hey Famine--Ive just realized who you remind me of: my mom.
Rogue Ssv
(Banned)
- 1,448
LOL.
Hmm, Im getting bored. Whoever views this thread next, please post something for us to discuss, I cant think of much else since I dont know these things, but with a good starting point and reasearch I can make good posts (methinks).
Anyway, I totally suck at debating whether America will attack Iran. Much better at this
Hmm, Im getting bored. Whoever views this thread next, please post something for us to discuss, I cant think of much else since I dont know these things, but with a good starting point and reasearch I can make good posts (methinks).
Anyway, I totally suck at debating whether America will attack Iran. Much better at this
- 939
- Netherlands
- snorretik
Rogue, I got nothing against new members I think it's just the fact that you post after every reply in this thread. If you look at a normal thread, you will see every person leaves his opinion once and just leaves, those people will return later to view the comment and view other opinions about the subject.
The problem here is that:
First a random person says something,
then you reply,
then another person says something,
then you reply again,
then some person quotes someone else,
and you reply to that again.
This continues in a pattern, and it's more like everyone is talking to you instead of everyone talking to everyone...if you know what I mean.
Not like I care about it that much.
I just realised that all the fancy official warnings didn't help you understand what you were doing wrong.
Basically you just have to wait till a number of people have replied after you
No harsh feelings, I think it might be possible that 60% of all new members to our forum, love to debate and post actively like you. It's just an error everyone makes.
I think it's just the fact that you post after every reply in this thread. If you look at a normal thread, you will see every person leaves his opinion once and just leaves, those people will return later to view the comment and view other opinions about the subject. The problem here is that:
First a random person says something,
then you reply,
then another person says something,
then you reply again,
then some person quotes someone else,
and you reply to that again.
This continues in a pattern, and it's more like everyone is talking to you instead of everyone talking to everyone...if you know what I mean.
Not like I care about it that much.
I just realised that all the fancy official warnings didn't help you understand what you were doing wrong.
Basically you just have to wait till a number of people have replied after you
No harsh feelings, I think it might be possible that 60% of all new members to our forum, love to debate and post actively like you. It's just an error everyone makes.
- 11,462
- U.K
- Paganisterr
- Ak Paganister
I don't mean to make this thread more off-topic than it is, but I think I'll add something here.Rogue SsvSorry for triple posting and telling Carl to shut up. I just dont like comments about age. 'Oh thats not a bad drawing considering your age', 'oh considering your age you shouldnt be talking.'
@Carl-sorry my brain was high on gas from a gas leak. And it was 3am. My parents would yell at me, my teachers would yell at me and my friends wouldnt do anything.
I like this place and dont wanna get banned but a lot of people here seem not to like me...
So Ill try to be more polite, and be nicewr instead of acting like in real life-cursing all the time and telling people to 'shut the (...) up' I hope I can stop upsetting people, sidetracking the thread, and not get banned.
So, about Israel, where were we?
About religions doing stupid acts of violence and/or stupidity: thats true, but like A6M5 just said, without religion we'd still end up fighting over land, resources, riches, and anything else we could find an excuse for.
But the Arabs and Jews still seem to be trying to kill each other for their 'holy city' of Jerusalem. Apparently they havent learned from their past. Ive said it before (or actually someone else beat me to it) and Ill say it again, the only good solution is for them to learn to live together in peace, like they did before the UN stepped in and said 'OK we're taking this land and putting Jews on it'. I think the Arabs only started to hate the Jews when the UN did that. It wouldve pissed me off too.
Either that or:
a) let them kill each other until theres no one left to live anywhere
b) have the UN commit another unforgivably stupid act and take Israel, kick out all of the Arabs and Jews, and blow it up or put other people in it.
....None of which are good solutions.
As for my posts lateley, Im trying people, its just that this is one of the most organized and least pointless forum sites ive ever been to, and Im used to cursing, saying shut up or worse, and deca-posting.
I noticed you've used one of my quotes there about your drawings. What I found funny was you have said your age in several posts (Including the Drawings thread) and you got grumpy because I said that. I thought you would take that fine because you were expecting it and wanted people to know you are only 12 and that they might not be as good as some peoples.
I have nothing against you (I doubt anyone has), but, like Famine said, calm down a little, think more before you post, take a look around and absorb the atmosphere of GTP and how everything works and you'll eventually become a better member. It won't happen overnight, but your posts are getting better like that one above.
I rarely post in this Opinions forum anyway. You have to have some nerve to do so.
- 939
- Netherlands
- snorretik
Rogue Ssv
I don't know, just spent more time at reading only. GTPlanet is just huge! Nothing uninteresting is posted here, besides the stock exchange and business stuff, but I'm sure that's interesting in a way too
And after reading a subject or some opinions, you can leave without commenting, and that's how you kill some time.Now, for your next post in this thread, wait for 4 other persons to post after this, then you are in a way allowed to make a post if you feel you got to contribute anything. If you are reading a thread, you can "feel" if someone meant the post informative, helpfull, funny, or just supporting. However you can also easily tell if someone is posting because it's fun to get some reactions from people all over the world, and that gets annoying quickly.
- 6,447
NielsI don't know, just spent more time at reading only. GTPlanet is just huge! Nothing uninteresting is posted here, besides the stock exchange and business stuff, but I'm sure that's interesting in a way too
Now, for your next post in this thread, wait for 4 other persons to post after this, then you are in a way allowed to make a post if you feel you got to contribute anything. If you are reading a thread, you can "feel" if someone meant the post informative, helpfull, funny, or just supporting. However you can also easily tell if someone is posting because it's fun to get some reactions from people all over the world, and that gets annoying quickly.
So I guess I should be shutting up a bit, eh
- 6,447
remington
.........thats not really constructive at all....you are simply bashing the Jews.
We dont have the proof that you are Palestinian so I wont say anything on it. But if you do believe that Palestinians won war against Jews, oh boy, you are wrong. All Palestinians are doing is blowing themselves up in front of Jews and in return Jews are killing the Palestinian extremist members.
Rogue Ssv
(Banned)
- 1,448
Yeah but this is about who SHOULD own it, innit?^^ Anyway, where does Palestine come in? I thought it was between the Arabs, the Jews, and the idiotic UN. Oh, oops, I just looked it up and now I know.
Well like Ive said before, they should learn to live in peace, like they did before the UN came in and :censored:ed everything up.
What GT4 said was harsh, but true. The forums on political issues and current events, as Ive quickly learned this past week, require a lot more thought and quality then the car threads, look at everyone else's posts. You are also required to give good evidence for what you post(sometimes, if it is major and or contradictory). As a new member this can be excused, but, like I try to now, keep in mind to be polite and only post if you have something constructive and factual to say. That was much better then my first post though So, keep posting and youll learn the ins and outs of GTP, as I am still trying to, but read what you wrote before posting and make sure it is worthy to be posted. Look at what people have told me in the past 3 pages, it will help a LOT. I hope this post is worth making, best regards and feel free to remove it or PM me to remove it if you think its not
Well like Ive said before, they should learn to live in peace, like they did before the UN came in and :censored:ed everything up.
What GT4 said was harsh, but true. The forums on political issues and current events, as Ive quickly learned this past week, require a lot more thought and quality then the car threads, look at everyone else's posts. You are also required to give good evidence for what you post(sometimes, if it is major and or contradictory). As a new member this can be excused, but, like I try to now, keep in mind to be polite and only post if you have something constructive and factual to say. That was much better then my first post though
So, keep posting and youll learn the ins and outs of GTP, as I am still trying to, but read what you wrote before posting and make sure it is worthy to be posted. Look at what people have told me in the past 3 pages, it will help a LOT. I hope this post is worth making, best regards and feel free to remove it or PM me to remove it if you think its not
- 3,626
- Sydney
- Gai-Gun
It is difficult to say that the Palestinians and Jews lived in peace before the UN stepped in as the Jews were spread out all over the continent and periodically being attacked.
- 6,447
NOTE: Palestines are the Arabs, its just a group name. Its like saying British, they are technically white but we call them British. The same is with Palestines.
Now for the UN thingy, they didnt live in peace, but UN did mess things up even worse. It furthured the deep division between Palesitnes and Jews.
Rogue, you are learning fast. Too bad I ran out of rep points for today...
Now for the UN thingy, they didnt live in peace, but UN did mess things up even worse. It furthured the deep division between Palesitnes and Jews.
Rogue, you are learning fast. Too bad I ran out of rep points for today...
- 1,151
'
& the PS3..
DeLoreanBrown
& the PS3..
- 91
After reading through this thread, one of the things that has struck me the most is some individuals' blame on goverments and multi-national governing bodies for worsening the situation between Israel and Palestine.
And I know all of our religious idealogies differ, and many of us today are trained not to accept religious principles as factual proof. I, personally, cannot deny that our current events have been driven by Biblical prophecy. Ever since Esau and Jacob were wrestling in the womb of Rebekah, there has ceased to be no peace between Jews and Arabs. And anyone who is fairly well-versed in Bible history knows that Israel after almost two thousand years would have to return from being a Roman province and dispersion across the globe to becoming a nation. And while we can argue over the insensibility of the method, it was just going to be.
On the matter of the U.S. aid to Israel, it is true that we have provided much of their military might. On the other side, they have also tweaked some of our systems to a higher level than we have. Sometime last year I came across an article talking of Israel's displeasure with the 40% success rate of our Patriot missile defense system and how they had improved it to I believe 60% plus success rate. I am not sure of that accuracy, but I know it was a substantial leap in performance. It is also a secondary reason why we worked with Israel to develop the Arrow defense system jointly, so that Israel's engineers could provide more insight. While we have been the source of much of their hardware, we have learned some things from them as well. Watch a few of the Six Day War documentaries and learn of Israel's military brilliance. That's why they want to attack Israel with long-range missiles and not with soldiers and tanks.
Like Speedy Samurai wisely stated, the Palestinians and the Jews were only at "peace" because the jews were spread around the world waiting for their own nation, but the emnity still existed. By man's laws, the two should work their issues out diplomatically and try to compromise on the holy sites and what not. By God's law, the land belongs to Israel, but the peace that came with it was lost in their spiritual history with God.
Personally, I am glad we support Israel and hope that our two nations continually work together, as we are both victims of terrorism. While those attacks could partially be blamed on our support of Israel, we also supported Al Qaeda against the Soviets, did we not? And while, yes, we have given Israel a lot of freedom in their campaigns against terrorists, Presidents Clinton and Bush have also used our aid as leverage to get them to cease certain actions.
I am sorry this is so lengthy, I sometimes feel the need to over-ellaborate. I respect all the other views stated throughout this thread. Remember one thing though, there is a lot of things our leaders know that they are unable to tell us. I often feel sorry for President Bush because there is more to the story than his lips can utter. Many use this as an advantage to further weaken [edit: his reputation and increase] the shame that many of his subordinates have brought upon his administration. While the "they should have done this" arguments are often logical, we don't know everything.
-Dahze
And I know all of our religious idealogies differ, and many of us today are trained not to accept religious principles as factual proof. I, personally, cannot deny that our current events have been driven by Biblical prophecy. Ever since Esau and Jacob were wrestling in the womb of Rebekah, there has ceased to be no peace between Jews and Arabs. And anyone who is fairly well-versed in Bible history knows that Israel after almost two thousand years would have to return from being a Roman province and dispersion across the globe to becoming a nation. And while we can argue over the insensibility of the method, it was just going to be.
On the matter of the U.S. aid to Israel, it is true that we have provided much of their military might. On the other side, they have also tweaked some of our systems to a higher level than we have. Sometime last year I came across an article talking of Israel's displeasure with the 40% success rate of our Patriot missile defense system and how they had improved it to I believe 60% plus success rate. I am not sure of that accuracy, but I know it was a substantial leap in performance. It is also a secondary reason why we worked with Israel to develop the Arrow defense system jointly, so that Israel's engineers could provide more insight. While we have been the source of much of their hardware, we have learned some things from them as well. Watch a few of the Six Day War documentaries and learn of Israel's military brilliance.
That's why they want to attack Israel with long-range missiles and not with soldiers and tanks. Like Speedy Samurai wisely stated, the Palestinians and the Jews were only at "peace" because the jews were spread around the world waiting for their own nation, but the emnity still existed. By man's laws, the two should work their issues out diplomatically and try to compromise on the holy sites and what not. By God's law, the land belongs to Israel, but the peace that came with it was lost in their spiritual history with God.
Personally, I am glad we support Israel and hope that our two nations continually work together, as we are both victims of terrorism. While those attacks could partially be blamed on our support of Israel, we also supported Al Qaeda against the Soviets, did we not? And while, yes, we have given Israel a lot of freedom in their campaigns against terrorists, Presidents Clinton and Bush have also used our aid as leverage to get them to cease certain actions.
I am sorry this is so lengthy, I sometimes feel the need to over-ellaborate. I respect all the other views stated throughout this thread. Remember one thing though, there is a lot of things our leaders know that they are unable to tell us. I often feel sorry for President Bush because there is more to the story than his lips can utter. Many use this as an advantage to further weaken [edit: his reputation and increase] the shame that many of his subordinates have brought upon his administration. While the "they should have done this" arguments are often logical, we don't know everything.
-Dahze
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