It's now March; where is our promised community update?

[twitcher]

If I was a successful developer, and looked on a fan forum to see all kinds of abusive comments and rhetoric discussions about how I have virtually ruined peoples childhood memories, I wouldn't communicate with them either.

Fact is, there is a lot of hostility towards Kaz, with GTP forums seemingly being the main source. And it's not everone on GTP, it's a vocal minority. Why should he bother interacting with this hostile, vocal minority?

I wasn't implying that Kaz should create a GTP account and be all buddy buddy with us.

I know I keep saying Kaz, but I really mean PD as a company has poor communication with their customer base. I guess I keep referring to Kaz because he is the face of the franchise.

It has been PD's practice for years to be incredibly elusive in regards to any information about updates, patches, DLC, etc, and also in regards to why they made certain choices throughout product development. Perhaps that is by design, as they have come to realize that if they don't give us any info, then we have nothing to be upset about when they fail to deliver.

Take for example the missing "copy & paste", and "reset to default" options in the tuning menu. A simple statement from PD acknowledging that they are in fact missing, and that they will be added by such and such a date, would suffice. Instead, we get the silent treatment, and are left to speculate that "they'll get to it when they get to it". I'm sorry, but that isn't good enough. The same goes for shuffle racing. As paying customers, we have a right to know why this feature was removed, and we have a right to know when PD plan to reimplement this feature. Simply saying "it will be added at a later date" is not good enough.


It's nice to know that you have Kaz's personal feelings in mind, but part of being the boss is having to answer the tough questions from customers when your product fails to deliver. This applies to any industry...well, any industry except the gaming industry, I guess.

When the Denver Bronco's 🤬 the bed in this year's Super Bowl, do you know how many "mean things" were said about them on teh interwebz? Did that prevent the coach, or Payton Manning, from having to get up in front of the media and answer the questions of "what the 🤬 happened?" It's comes with the territory when you are the face of the franchise.

PD is the only game developer that I can think of who does not have a forum, or feedback section, on their official website. I'm completely baffled as to why.


I think the reason people are becoming so frustrated is because this is not the first time we've been led down this road. We were sold an unfinished, untested product in GT5, and now we're doing it all over again with GT6. I won't be surprised at all when the exact same thing happens with GT7.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Take for example the missing "copy & paste", and "reset to default" options in the tuning menu.

I think the reason people are becoming so frustrated is because this is not the first time we've been led down this road. We were sold an unfinished, untested product in GT5, and now we're doing it all over again with GT6. I won't be surprised at all when the exact same thing happens with GT7.

Those are actually the things that bug me the most, the missing small stuff. Copy and paste missing? Why? What possible reason is there to not include that incredibly handy feature? Mini-map scaling when racing online? Why is that not there? Gear ratio sliders..hold the button for a split second too long and all of a sudden it's all the way left or all the way right? Why? The sliders worked fine in GT5 why change them? Remember you could see the top speed changing when you adjusted the transmission? Why is that gone? What possible reason?

Silly me, I expected the game to build on all that was done right in GT5 with more content and some enhanced features. I didn't expect them to take useful stuff away for no good reason:tdown:👎

 

[machschnel]

I think most, if not all of the frustration involved in following Gran Turismo stems from constantly waiting.

I've only really been on GTPlanet since GT5-P but even then most complaints/criticisms were met with calls to "be patient". I think that was warranted (to some extent) with GT5-P and GT5 - they where Polyphony's first efforts on a piece of hardware that was notoriously hard to program for. Then came GT6 and the expectation that with a solid foundation (GT5) we could expect a much better game, not an unreasonable assumption I think.

Now where are we? Well, I feel we are in a very similar situation to where we were at this period of GT5's life cycle. Deja vu all over again, but still there are calls to "be patient".

How many chances does Polyphony get? How much waiting do we have to do? I can see it now - "GT7 is Polyphony's first game on the PS4, give them time. Just wait and see how amazing GT8 will be!".

 

[eSZee]

I totally sometimes forget the level of serious is high here.

the GTP GT6 forum is full of businessmen worried about global sales, public approval ratings, and such. EHHHHHHHHHHHHH whatever. Carry on!

You posted a BS stat and got called on it. What am I missing?

 

[twitcher]

...
Silly me, I expected the game to build on all that was done right in GT5 with more content and some enhanced features. I didn't expect them to take useful stuff away for no good reason:tdown:👎

Couldn't have hit the nail harder on the head!!

How stupid of us to assume that GT6 would build on the foundation laid out by GT5. We should have known they would throw out most of the useful features, and try to reinvent the wheel.

I think the thing that makes this all so absurd, specifically in the case of the copy and paste feature....is that was a function which was NOT INCLUDED IN VANILLA GT5!!! It had to be patched in after people specifically asked for it....and where are we today?????????

 

[mister dog]

But I know every person who created a fan site for a game I lead, and some where just huge. Every one of them had my cell phone and were very respectful of my time... I respected the more assertive ones... And they got the lion share of my attention.

They where key to holding a direct line to my most avid fans and often provided me with "state of the community" updates, updates I used in very high level reports and meetings.

You made me curious now Lawndart on which games you produced? Big scale or smaller scale games?

February 25th
Update 1.05
3:00 AM GMT

Can't tell you that, but be sure that you will be playing on the new track next week!

I don't really care seeing i didn't bother with GT6, but if they update it next week like you say; I hope they fix a lot of the broken stuff and release missing features on top of handing out new goodies, as i think people are more eager for those things. You know anything about this also?

 

[Azure Flare]

Did all of you forget to mark your calenders for the 28th?

 

[Quakebass]

I regards to the thread title;

February is about as complete as GT6. Wait a bit.

And also, how exactly do you know the next update will have the community features…?

 

[Rrralphster]

Hey Kaz, where is the improved AI you promised...?

 

[Vitocorp]

Maybe, and when I say maybe is MAYBE...we'll get some info or some Senna content on 25 February, there will be the presentation of “Ayrton Senna Tribute, 1994.2014″ at Imola this May.
Should be a good occasion to introduce new content and other stuff, plus is at the near end of the month, and Kaz loves this.

 

[mister dog]

Hey Kaz, where is the improved AI you promised...?

And the engine sounds being "just placeholders"

 

[Raggadish]

I can't believe Sony wont see to that PD has a community manager, it's their biggest franchise and they think it's all good not having one who can excite the fans with info about upcoming games and/or updates? Really head twisting stupidity if you ask me. Most of Sonys other developers got a community manager so why not Gran Turismo?

 

[eran0004]

I'm really not sure what you're on about. Obviously I don't know if you've had any experience trying to run a business, or working for one. But you don't advertise things that may or may not ever exist. Word of mouth spreads that you are a flake and you collapse.

Large corporations can get away with this because the customer base is so huge. But's it's laughable that you think PD need to add "And we promise these features" on their website for their customers to be able to read them as a fact.

First of all the features doesn't exist (yet) because if they did they would be in the game. Second, "promise" is never used in business language, in case you've ever worked in a business. There may be "guarantees" and there may be "announcements", but "promises" are extremely rare in that world. And why is that? Because a promise is not serious, no one in the world of business takes a promise seriously. A guarantee, on the other hand, usually comes with some sort of compensation if what's guranteed can't be delivered.

In this case, there's no guarantees. Obviously they're working on these features and they plan to include them, but you don't get a refund if for some reason they fail to deliver.

As a customer, it's naive to treat information from a company as a promise. If you don't get a guarantee, then you can't take anything for granted. **** happens. With a guarantee you get a compensation, without a guarantee you don't.

And then we come to the word that follows "promise" and that is "liars". It would be a lie if they announced something they never had the intent of completing, but I seriously doubt that's the case here. Failure to deliver happens all the time in the business world, but very rarely they're the product of lies. There could be problems that's too hard or resource-demanding to solve. The plans might be wrong. The organization might be poor. There could be an earthquake or there could be patent issues or whatever.

A footballer than in an interview before the game says "we will win tonight" is not a liar if they would lose the game. He would simply be wrong.

That is why I don't like the word "promise". It's a childish simplification and it assumes that businesses are evil liars if they don't deliver.

But I'll meet your "critical thinking" and raise you a "common sense", "business practice", and the leading thing that feeds the hype train, "expectations"... And expectations are formed from messaging, not thin air.

I agree. Information causes expectations and when expectations aren't met, people are disappointed. It hurts the business reputation for sure. But can I ask you this: When you've failed to deliver something (either on time or at all), did you consider yourself a liar?

You can be wrong and you can be right.
You can tell the truth and you can tell a lie.

But being wrong about something is not the same thing as telling a lie.

If someone is often wrong about something, it means that person is not very trustworthy. It does not mean he is a liar.

In order to tell a lie, you need to know (or think that you know) what the truth is, and then say something else. Or you need to know (or think that you know) what's not true and say that.

It took them well over 2 years after GT5 released to remove the information regarding the GT5: Prologue garage transfer feature from the GT website. You mean to tell me I shouldn't have given up hope on that promised announced feature until then?

You can give up on anything whenever you chose. It's never too late to give up.

PS. Fixed that for you.

 

[Shirrako]

I don't really care seeing i didn't bother with GT6, but if they update it next week like you say; I hope they fix a lot of the broken stuff and release missing features on top of handing out new goodies, as i think people are more eager for those things. You know anything about this also?

I know it from an anonymous source which i'm not going to speak about, the goodies are coming the 25th, community features are unconfirmed yet, only the track and a few new cars and events which should be available the 25th at 3:00 AM GMT worldwide.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

If I was a successful developer, and looked on a fan forum to see all kinds of abusive comments and rhetoric discussions about how I have virtually ruined peoples childhood memories, I wouldn't communicate with them either.

Fact is, there is a lot of hostility towards Kaz, with GTP forums seemingly being the main source. And it's not everone on GTP, it's a vocal minority. Why should he bother interacting with this hostile, vocal minority?

Come on, man... do you really think this way?

I mean, a developer seeing his product going down the road, the fans getting angry and disapointed, and the only reason he could make out of all that being "nevermind, they are all complaining about my work, screw them".

Seriuosly?

 

[fortbo]

I know it from an anonymous source which i'm not going to speak about, the goodies are coming the 25th, community features are unconfirmed yet, only the track and a few new cars and events which should be available the 25th at 3:00 AM GMT worldwide.

Do you have an idea on what the new cars will be?

 

[jimipitbull]

Come on, man... do you really think this way?

I mean, a developer seeing his product going down the road, the fans getting angry and disapointed, and the only reason he could make out of all that being "nevermind, they are all complaining about my work, screw them".

Seriuosly?

Not all fans are angry and/or disappointed. As mentioned previously, it appears to be a vocal minority. I have yet to come across any game breaking bugs or issues.

If PD doesn't want to communicate or interact, that's their decision. I am happy to wait for further content and features, it doesn't bother me whether a set date is announced for those or not.

 

[Griffith500]

Just a note: A beta is usually considered feature-complete. Do not let games publishers colour your interpretation of what is and what isn't a "beta". In fact, most of the time "betas", as presented for "early access", are actually more like release candidates. But they like to massage our egos, because we like it when they do that.

So if GT6 isn't a beta, does that make it an alpha? Not at all. We should consider the game in its current state to be what it is, as a fully functional product (bugs and questionable design decisions notwithstanding) and what is coming to be a free "expansion". Like the good old days.

If these features were to have been in the game at launch, we would have to have waited longer for the game anyway. I think the things that PD improved upon in the game as it stands justify the "early" release, and it's clearly the sensible thing to have done in light of recent developments in the console market...

You posted a BS stat and got called on it. What am I missing?

The raw numbers are fine.

However, your interpretation implies that GT underselling relative to AC4 at this point in time is a disaster in light of the total sales such games are expected to achieve over their lifetime.

What you either deliberately omitted, or simply didn't consider, is that a GT game burns much longer than a game like AC. The latter has a huge hump and then practically nothing, whilst GT has a hump and then a very long tail. That's where the big numbers come from for all the GT games.

Sure, GT6 is unlikely to sell as well as GT5, but the console game environment is nowhere near the same for either game. Even if it were, it would be hard to pinpoint the difference in sales - they could be the exact same product, in terms of expectations, and sell different amounts, just depending on what the public is feeling at the time.


But sales are actually irrelevant anyway, for many reasons. Just one being the phenomena responsible for some of the best games I've played (and widely regarded as such) being abject commercial "failures".

 

[Hastatus]

https://www.gtplanet.net/gt6-launch-event-reveals-x2014-intro-movie-january-update-deltawing-more/ Launch party

Thanks for the link.

Unfortunately that link is nothing but hearsay. Sure Wardez is a GTP moderator and mentions "New Community Club features will not go live until January." I can't be sure that that is what Kaz said. It is not a direct quote and people tend to paraphrase things or hear what they want when they are emotionally invested or taxed. There may also have been translation issues too. For all we know Kaz said "January at the earliest" but "at the earliest" was misunderstood or he said "Our hopes are that..." and it was omitted. I searched the web for details from that event and I could find no one else who mentioned January who was not quoting Wardez. In fact his text is quoted/copied 102 times when I search Google and I've even seen it on French, German, Italian, Turkish, Portuguese, and Chinese websites. The Chinese website even listed Kaz as the "author" instead of Wardez! The promise of Wardez has enveloped the globe!

Is Wardez the only source for this? Did he get the exclusive interview with Kaz? Did no one else hear Kaz say this? Can someone find a non-Wardez source for January being when the Community Club was set to come according to Kaz or a PD employee?

Kaz might have said this. He might not. There is no 100% certainty in my mind.

I am 100% certain that Kaz did not say "I promise"...and I am also 100% certain that many emotionally invested people have heard Kaz make that promise.

 

[Vagabond]

Unfortunately that link is nothing but hearsay. Sure Wardez is a GTP moderator and mentions "New Community Club features will not go live until January." I can't be sure that that is what Kaz said.

Wardez posted the article but Jordan actually attends these events and in many cases also gets a chance for a one-on-one with Mr Yamauchi. Most of our info in cases like this comes from Jordan and his lines of communication and access. Anything 'officially' announced at GTP you can guarantee comes form a solid and verifiable source.

 

[Griffith500]

Wardez posted the article but Jordan actually attends these events and in many cases also gets a chance for a one-on-one with Mr Yamauchi. Most of our info in cases like this comes from Jordan and his lines of communication and access. Anything 'officially' announced at GTP you can guarantee comes form a solid and verifiable source.

So, is that a confirmation or not?

 

[CJSpencer77]

I was thinking yesterday that they might be having some big issues with one or more of the update features and they're bug testing the hell out of it before they release it.

lmao, this must be your first rodeo, news flash WE are the alpha and the beta testers.

 

[Vagabond]

So, is that a confirmation or not?

Sorry, I didn't actually state that. Its a confirmation that, at the time of posting that article, its contents were accurate and truthful to the best of our knowledge.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Thanks for the link.

Unfortunately that link is nothing but hearsay. Sure Wardez is a GTP moderator and mentions "New Community Club features will not go live until January." I can't be sure that that is what Kaz said. It is not a direct quote and people tend to paraphrase things or hear what they want when they are emotionally invested or taxed. There may also have been translation issues too. For all we know Kaz said "January at the earliest" but "at the earliest" was misunderstood or he said "Our hopes are that..." and it was omitted. I searched the web for details from that event and I could find no one else who mentioned January who was not quoting Wardez. In fact his text is quoted/copied 102 times when I search Google and I've even seen it on French, German, Italian, Turkish, Portuguese, and Chinese websites. The Chinese website even listed Kaz as the "author" instead of Wardez! The promise of Wardez has enveloped the globe!

Is Wardez the only source for this? Did he get the exclusive interview with Kaz? Did no one else hear Kaz say this? Can someone find a non-Wardez source for January being when the Community Club was set to come according to Kaz or a PD employee?

Kaz might have said this. He might not. There is no 100% certainty in my mind.

I am 100% certain that Kaz did not say "I promise"...and I am also 100% certain that many emotionally invested people have heard Kaz make that promise.

Asked...

Sorry, I didn't actually state that. Its a confirmation that, at the time of posting that article, its contents were accurate and truthful to the best of our knowledge.

And answered...

 

[Darragh]

Perfect timing for the update, just after 9 days of no school...

 

[Streeto]

lmao, this must be your first rodeo, news flash WE are the alpha and the beta testers.

You got me there, but this is certainly not my first "rodeo".

 

[bman1984]

....For me a start would be some communication from someone with knowledge. Even Kaz's translator would be great, someone, anyone. The language barrier is not an excuse for me. That way we can have a discussion on facts and not arguments on speculation.

Link to Gran Turismo Roundtable

To add to what I said above, this is a perfect example. Now unless Jordan is a secret underground employee of Sony/PD he knows about as much as we all do here about Gran Turismo. So, at the 14:15 mark, after the new location is shown it's said to mark your calendars for February (something he must have been told prior to the interview) for INFORMATION not new content. Then Ken adds it will be talked about at the Taipei Game Show. Where is the info??? That's the problem. Everything is hush hush, a big secret and now a rumor is that next week we will get new stuff. We don't need to know what the guy had for dinner last night or his secrets on audio capture.... just news!

For me, something simple like:

A screenshot or two of the "new and more powerful" B-Spec mode would be nice.....

A short video of Kaz driving home from the office, then a shot of him driving in GT6 his drive home we just saw in real life now in the game showing of the GPS stuff.

Even get his translator involved....
Kaz: "There are so many Skyline's I can't remember the P.P. of this one here...."
Translator: "No problem, using my handheld device I can get that info for you, and also set up some online events".

Right there, look how much discussion could be had and not arguing. Like when Matterhorn was first announced or the possibility of Special Stage Route X "Inner Track". Those discussions were enjoyable to read and shows lots of great ideas.

It works pretty well on MiiVerse with the Super Smash Bros. Developers Room with new screenshots posted ever so often along with contact with the community, it would work well here to. By now there has to be something to show when it comes to the stuff planned for the future on their website. If not... uh oh, Spaghetti O's.

 

[forzaturismo]

Do you have an idea on what the new cars will be?

maybe the "Mercedes Vision gt Version 3......."

 

[danielc]

I know it from an anonymous source which i'm not going to speak about, the goodies are coming the 25th, community features are unconfirmed yet, only the track and a few new cars and events which should be available the 25th at 3:00 AM GMT worldwide.

Do you promisse?
Just kidding

 

[Lawndart]

First of all the features doesn't exist (yet) because if they did they would be in the game. Second, "promise" is never used in business language, in case you've ever worked in a business. There may be "guarantees" and there may be "announcements", but "promises" are extremely rare in that world. And why is that? Because a promise is not serious, no one in the world of business takes a promise seriously. A guarantee, on the other hand, usually comes with some sort of compensation if what's guranteed can't be delivered.

In this case, there's no guarantees. Obviously they're working on these features and they plan to include them, but you don't get a refund if for some reason they fail to deliver.

As a customer, it's naive to treat information from a company as a promise. If you don't get a guarantee, then you can't take anything for granted. **** happens. With a guarantee you get a compensation, without a guarantee you don't.

And then we come to the word that follows "promise" and that is "liars". It would be a lie if they announced something they never had the intent of completing, but I seriously doubt that's the case here. Failure to deliver happens all the time in the business world, but very rarely they're the product of lies. There could be problems that's too hard or resource-demanding to solve. The plans might be wrong. The organization might be poor. There could be an earthquake or there could be patent issues or whatever.

A footballer than in an interview before the game says "we will win tonight" is not a liar if they would lose the game. He would simply be wrong.

That is why I don't like the word "promise". It's a childish simplification and it assumes that businesses are evil liars if they don't deliver.



I agree. Information causes expectations and when expectations aren't met, people are disappointed. It hurts the business reputation for sure. But can I ask you this: When you've failed to deliver something (either on time or at all), did you consider yourself a liar?

You can be wrong and you can be right.
You can tell the truth and you can tell a lie.

But being wrong about something is not the same thing as telling a lie.

If someone is often wrong about something, it means that person is not very trustworthy. It does not mean he is a liar.

In order to tell a lie, you need to know (or think that you know) what the truth is, and then say something else. Or you need to know (or think that you know) what's not true and say that.



You can give up on anything whenever you chose. It's never too late to give up.

PS. Fixed that for you.

No one outright lies. Not even Kaz. Something gets considered a lie when something is stated and an unreasonable amount of time has passed with no communication. The rule to managing expectations is communication. Not much different than telling your wife when you will be home... If you say for dinner, and you show up in the middle of the night? She's pissed! But if you call around the expected time and explain your late, even with minimal explanation, her expectations are calibrated. She might not like it, but she will understand and focus on the next deadline.

I have no doubt Kaz intends (at the time) to make good on everything he says... But the road to hell is paved in good intentions. He also tries to not talk about risky things, but he does... And he also likes to bring up vision a lot... Customers dissect vision and create their own assumption of what it means... And with little communication otherwise... The hype train builds in momentum.