JSTC400 (GT300) Series! Season 1 Races Complete

[Wardez]

I'll do some testing tomorrow. I'll let you guys know what I think.

 

[TDZdave]

Wardez, can you throw the standard Subaru into that test?

 

[Wardez]

Doing all of the cars sans Silvia. Running Monza and Laguna since I know them well.

 

[twistedfirework]

Tonight I will test all of the cars at the current specs at nurb gp/f, I believe this and Suzuka test every aspect of the cars. I will post my results later.

 

[BAZZER]

Wardez, can you throw the standard Subaru into that test?

I did some testing lastnight and the subaru was faster than the celica and MR-S. Was also faster than the Lexus but I think there's more time to be had with it. Going to do the RX-7 and arta tonight.

 

[TDZdave]

I guess I'm a pelican at tuning this car, the only track I found it competitive was Nurburg, it broke into the 1.59s in qualifying, but I got kicked wide by the turn 2 kerb on to the run off so the time was removed, and I felt the Win at Fuji in room 2 was more strategy as oppose to outright speed, seeing as my fastest lap in room 2 was 1.5 second's slower then room 1s fastest,

 

[phil bell]

I'll ask you the same question a, spaz. The Lexus isn't fastest on the straight's or round the bends.

So what do you suggest?

Giving less hp will see the arta and rx7 dominate it, it would probably get hammered az the celica and subaru also.

Adding more weight will slow it down even more on the bends and push it further away from other cars.

The problem isn't the Lexus, it's a couple of other cars that need a power boost to even them up with the rest of the field.

Exactly, I'll be switching if it gets nerfed alot.
People just look at raw hp/weight figures it seems.
In fact my teammate was faster in the Garaiya on most tracks.
In a straight line with 404hp weirdly it's also even with the RX7 and only abit faster than the Garaiya. Top speed is also close. Keep in mind I run stock rear downforce.
In addition the Lexus has inherent mid corner understeer, quite push-loose.
The rear gets light on entry and you can enter with not much steering, then it pushes and you have to wait on it.
Braking and turn in/exit grip seem similar and lower speed response in the Lexus is good I have to say.

 

[TylerJDallas]

Exactly, I'll be switching if it gets nerfed alot.
People just look at raw hp/weight figures it seems.
In fact my teammate was faster in the Garaiya on most tracks.
In a straight line with 404hp weirdly it's also even with the RX7 and only abit faster than the Garaiya. Top speed is also close. Keep in mind I run stock rear downforce.
In addition the Lexus has inherent mid corner understeer, quite push-loose.
The rear gets light on entry and you can enter with not much steering, then it pushes and you have to wait on it.
Braking and turn in/exit grip seem similar and lower speed response in the Lexus is good I have to say.

I'm not the most experienced driver. But this is right on with the lex. You can get some good rotation under braking to line up the apex, but if you let up off the brake before you hit it's turn in grip level it will push for oversteer quite a bit.

 

[ZachAK47]

I have a room up, 1472 6399 8665 9408 0714

 

[phil bell]

I'd love to test but have to wake up for class in 5 hours. Waking up at 6.30 for 2 hours and some damn pointless subject. :/

 

[ZachAK47]

I'd love to test but have to wake up for class in 5 hours. Waking up at 6.30 for 2 hours and some damn pointless subject. :/

Lol, I have Monday's off from uni, and Tuesday's I don't start while 5pm and finish at 6pm. It's great

 

[BAZZER]

I'll come and practice for a bit Zach.

 

[VELOCI_2NR]

Exactly, I'll be switching if it gets nerfed alot.
People just look at raw hp/weight figures it seems.
In fact my teammate was faster in the Garaiya on most tracks.
In a straight line with 404hp weirdly it's also even with the RX7 and only abit faster than the Garaiya. Top speed is also close. Keep in mind I run stock rear downforce.
In addition the Lexus has inherent mid corner understeer, quite push-loose.
The rear gets light on entry and you can enter with not much steering, then it pushes and you have to wait on it.
Braking and turn in/exit grip seem similar and lower speed response in the Lexus is good I have to say.

Maybe you're only looking at maxima/minima figures such as top speed and apex speeds.

The thing with the Lexus is it has gobs of grip. The chassis isnt as good as a Garaiya through the corners, but something closer to a premium subaru, which is still pretty good. The mid-corner push will lower your apex figures since you have to let off the gas to let the car rotate, but the loads of grip you have will allow you to get back on the throttle much sooner and use all the available power more instantaneously.

That gets us to our next area, power. The car has over 400 horses and a bajillion ft-lb of torque. It's also power limited to like 60%, iirc, so it gets all 400 horses all over the power band whereas most other cars get maybe a 2000 rpm window. This is what gives the car the amazing pull out of the corners and until about halfway down the long straight. Then the brick of a body it carries on the frame begins to fight a losing battle with the air and ultimately reaches a terminal velocity slower than if one of the more streamlined cars had a similar engine package. It may also be that because of the super limiting that's required on the car, it has no torque in the upper revs, so if you're trying to run the car to redline in 6th, it may be slower than only running it to 6500rpm in 6th.

Maybe we should try disallowing stage 3 engine to force less limiting and see if that slows the car down. Just a thought.

In the end, not all cars are going to run the same when it comes to top speed and apex speeds; it's the final lap time that really matters. And it's that lap time ceteris paribus that matters.

 

[BAZZER]

It all comes down to the driver at the end of the day, i remember Litchi doing a test earlier in the thread with about 5 cars and all were within .3 of each other. Not sure which was fastest though.

 

[ugabugaz]

I agree that something needs to be done regarding the Lexus. It's had an advantage in lap times (Based on my own testing) on every track thus far. For this Nurburgring race I wanted to continue using my RX-7 but it was far too slow compared to the Lexus. Even considering the fact that I have my RX-7 tuned far better than my Lexus it still couldn't come close. Now I'm not saying the Lexus tune I have is bad...It just has a few rough spots here and there.

 

[SkengD]

It all comes down to the driver at the end of the day, i remember Litchi doing a test earlier in the thread with about 5 cars and all were within .3 of each other. Not sure which was fastest though.

Driver can only extract so much from a car

 

[BAZZER]

Tracks also has to be taken into account, short low speed tracks don't suit the Lexus.

Next season we should have a more even spread of short, medium and long tracks.

Just done some testing with zach and the lexus isn't my fastest car around Laguna Seca but at next weeks race it was the fastest for me, maybe it does need a slight tweak but to much and it'll get had at the small tracks too easily.

 

[VELOCI_2NR]

It all comes down to the driver at the end of the day, i remember Litchi doing a test earlier in the thread with about 5 cars and all were within .3 of each other. Not sure which was fastest though.

But with drivers on equal grounds, the faster car will win. And with the cars on equal grounds, the faster driver will win. A faster driver in a slower car can only win if the driver is faster (on equal grounds) by a margin greater than the deficit of the car.

I didn't choose the quickest car for a reason, but sort of forgot about the success ballast. In initial regs, it was hard enough to beat the lexus, now with the extra weight, it's impossible.

I ran a few cars earlier in the thread, but it wasn't to check that they were equal, but instead disprove the qualms about people saying the celica was the fastest. I ran cars only long enough to get within about 3 tenths of my celi time, which most got in 1 lap (which should have clued me off about the disparities of the cars).

Tracks also has to be taken into account, short low speed tracks don't suit the Lexus.

Next season we should have a more even spread of short, medium and long tracks.

Just done some testing with zach and the lexus isn't my fastest car around Laguna Seca but at next weeks race it was the fastest for me, maybe it does need a slight tweak but to much and it'll get had at the small tracks too easily.

Wasn't it fastest at Nurb as well? That is one of the most technical tracks there are.

It's been fastest at every single track we've run so far. Something has to be changed.

 

[TylerJDallas]

If we do change the specs on the Lexus again, can we extend the final car selection from this Round maybe one or two more rounds?

 

[alefin]

If we do change the specs on the Lexus again, can we extend the final car selection from this Round maybe one or two more rounds?

That makes sense. I'll see what Joe thinks.

 

[twistedfirework]

I have just done a little testing at Nurb gp/f.
first i put a basic tune on to all cars, then i set out and ran 5 timed laps in each car.
This is a list of each cars best lap;
Lexus IS350 '08 1:58.824
Arta Garaiya '08 1:59.813
Wedsport Celica '03 1:59.832
Toyota MR-S '00 1:59.893
RX7 Amemiya '06 1:59.979
Subaru Impreza '03 2:00.057
Subaru Impreza '08 2:00.168
I didnt test the Amemiya '04, as i believe it to be at the same pace as the '06. The Nissan Razo Silvia, i gave up on. What a horrible drive. no one will ever pick this car.

Its obvious that the Lexus needs slowing down a little. i am familiar with the lexus and it was a good lap, so maybe its not a full second ahead of the others, maybe 0.5. the gariya feels like there is more there to find.

I am not a fan of using ballast as a way of balancing cars, although it is a little late to try and level the whole field using horsepower and turbo's only. i do have a complete set of GT300 specs, but that would mean changing every cars specs, thats probably not a good idea at this stage.

When trying to get cars on a par, it is only laptime that matters. All cars have their own characteristics. some have a better top speed, some have better acceleration others have superior cornering or tyre wear. You will never get all cars to have the same acceleration, cornering and top speed.

I hope this helps in some way

 

[freshseth83]

The original idea from a few stewards was to have 394hp for the Lexus @1150kg. Seeing 1160kg did nothing to really hinder the corner speeds (ballast positioning helps), my idea of 394hp seems fine. The car has stage 3 engine, that gives it good torque, and still has more power than any car in the field. I think this will give the Lexus a bit less speed but won't hurt it in a way that it'll cause people to change their choice of car. Fast laps are cool, but continuing those laps throughout a stint is another thing. The Lexus is decent, but not the best on tire wear. IMO, the Garaiya and the RX7 are gentle to their tires in comparison. At Nurb I could go 4-6 laps longer and still be within 1-2 seconds of my fastest lap. With the Lexus, the fast laps come on early, but fade later on a bit quicker than the others I've driven at least.

 

[ugabugaz]

The original idea from a few stewards was to have 394hp for the Lexus @1150kg. Seeing 1160kg did nothing to really hinder the corner speeds (ballast positioning helps), my idea of 394hp seems fine. The car has stage 3 engine, that gives it good torque, and still has more power than any car in the field. I think this will give the Lexus a bit less speed but won't hurt it in a way that it'll cause people to change their choice of car. Fast laps are cool, but continuing those laps throughout a stint is another thing. The Lexus is decent, but not the best on tire wear. IMO, the Garaiya and the RX7 are gentle to their tires in comparison. At Nurb I could go 4-6 laps longer and still be within 1-2 seconds of my fastest lap. With the Lexus, the fast laps come on early, but fade later on a bit quicker than the others I've driven at least.

I disagree. RX-7 produced worse tire wear for me. Perhaps due to my setups?

 

[freshseth83]

Could be. I was able to go 2/3rds of the race (Tokyo) without pitting, but chose not to. The times were pretty stable. About 1.0-1.5 seconds loss of lap time per 10-12 laps.

 

[phil bell]

Maybe you're only looking at maxima/minima figures such as top speed and apex speeds.

The thing with the Lexus is it has gobs of grip. The chassis isnt as good as a Garaiya through the corners, but something closer to a premium subaru, which is still pretty good. The mid-corner push will lower your apex figures since you have to let off the gas to let the car rotate, but the loads of grip you have will allow you to get back on the throttle much sooner and use all the available power more instantaneously.

That gets us to our next area, power. The car has over 400 horses and a bajillion ft-lb of torque. It's also power limited to like 60%, iirc, so it gets all 400 horses all over the power band whereas most other cars get maybe a 2000 rpm window. This is what gives the car the amazing pull out of the corners and until about halfway down the long straight. Then the brick of a body it carries on the frame begins to fight a losing battle with the air and ultimately reaches a terminal velocity slower than if one of the more streamlined cars had a similar engine package. It may also be that because of the super limiting that's required on the car, it has no torque in the upper revs, so if you're trying to run the car to redline in 6th, it may be slower than only running it to 6500rpm in 6th.

Maybe we should try disallowing stage 3 engine to force less limiting and see if that slows the car down. Just a thought.

In the end, not all cars are going to run the same when it comes to top speed and apex speeds; it's the final lap time that really matters. And it's that lap time ceteris paribus that matters.

I am not, in terms of acceleration after exiting Fujis last corner it's even with the 7. And getting on the gas earlier is not true you have to wait on it so long as the car balance isn't there. I dunno but those I'm talking to are getting faster times in the Garaiya and 7.

The Lexus also has a steep drop off in tires later on and believe me I'm no bogan with the gas, my tire wear used to be the best in class in
my previous league, now it's average.

Maybe I'm not getting the most out of the Lexus, whatever I don't know.

 

[ugabugaz]

This is the Lexus Setup I ran on GP/F. Is it fully optimized? No, A few more races are needed but it fared pretty well for me.

Ride Height: 5/5
Spring Rates: 12.6/11.4
Dampers (Ext): 8/5
Dampers (Com): 9/2
Anti Roll: 5/4
Camber: 2.4/1.4
Toe: -0.06/0.04

Ballast: Any to the back (+50)
Aero: 35/60 (MAX)
LSD: 10/40/20 (Stock, I believe)
Brake Balance: 5/6 (Personal Preference)

Transmission:
1: 3.192
2: 2.275
3: 1.803
4: 1.458
5: 1.185
6: 0.939 (Left a gap between 5th and 6th - To lower Gears 2-4)
FN: 4.182
Top: 155 MPH
Top(Upper): 165 MPH

 

[joetruckv8]

Sorry guys, but I'm still sorting out the issue's reported and I would of had it done by now but I had finals today, so I have Tuesday evening & night set aside to clear everything up. Once again I apologize for the 48hr wait but tomorrow everything will get sorted out. Thanks!

 

[phil bell]

It's a wait but hey we all got our own commitments so no problem man. 👍
You guys have to get all the charts ready and analyze accidents and with us bunch racing it's probably not easy.

 

[FakeGangstaDIE]

Room up for a little while


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Closed

 

[sandwiches]

Hows it going all is there anyone with a room open for some laps