Just Raced Under The New Algorithms and Rules

[Robben]

The threat of DR loss isn't going to stop them, yet DR penalties ruin the system. Not a fair trade!!

The only way to implement a DR loss in a way that's reasonable to the system is by position penalty at the end of the race. (I'm assuming for now that a disqualification counts the same as DNF did before, so that's OK). But for that, the system would need to apportion blame, which frankly it is crap at.

What isn't OK is taking points out of an Elo-based system, especially since there's no way to gain points except from other player's points.

Do we know then that the points are just "lost" and not redistributed amongst the grid?

Aren't you violently agreeing with me there?

just made me chuckle

 

[Outspacer]

Do we know then that the points are just "lost" and not redistributed amongst the grid?

No idea, I haven't seen it happen yet. Watched a couple of mid-level races last night, will try to find some S-level races tonight since maybe it only applies to SR=S, I dunno.

 

[JulesDennis]

The threat of DR loss isn't going to stop them, yet DR penalties ruin the system. Not a fair trade!!

The only way to implement a DR loss in a way that's reasonable to the system is by position penalty at the end of the race. (I'm assuming for now that a disqualification counts the same as DNF did before, so that's OK). But for that, the system would need to apportion blame, which frankly it is crap at.

What isn't OK is taking points out of an Elo-based system, especially since there's no way to gain points except from other player's points. But start down that road and it isn't an Elo-based system any more, it's something else (which might be fine, but I wouldn't trust PD to design it!).

But also I firmly believe the two ratings should measure two different, separate, things, and just do the best they can at those. (Note that #1 in my post pretends to the user that they have been docked DR, and probably affects matchmaking as well). Then the matchmaking has the best information possible available to it.

Note that the key point of my post is that SR is the rating that needs most attention, since that 99 SR thing is a real problem. @Mr616 also.



Aren't you violently agreeing with me there? My points #3 and #6 basically say do away with fault and therefore do away with time penalties for collisions.

And I'm not saying nothing extra gets tacked on later, but first the SR has to have a solid core way of working. That is vital.

I agree mate.
But my point is this:
Rating system,penalty system,race results and matchmaking are all connected to each other.If one part has a problem,that create's problems to all other parts.
You cannot fix the rating system without fixing the penalty system.

 

[Outspacer]

I agree mate.
But my point is this:
Rating system,penalty system,race results and matchmaking are all connected to each other.If one part has a problem,that create's problems to all other parts.
You cannot fix the rating system without fixing the penalty system.

Not sure what you mean by fixing the penalty system? My thoughts are to base SR losses on a collision's strength only, with each player taking equal loss. Fixing it to correctly apportion blame (even most of the time) is never going to happen.

 

[Ryan Sandall]

We are all trying to race is the deal, this penalty system makes you scared to get close to another car let alone overtake it.

The rubbing is racing term is fine not because of the class were in f1or gt but cos it’s a game and when there is no real fear involved with contact of course people will nudge each other a little bit

The most obvious and frustrating scenario is going for a move up the inside your fully along side but they turn in
Might not have seen you might be trying to squeeze you or whatever that’s fine but if your now getting penalties every time joe Dave and bob slightly turn into you or even worse hit you from behind and you both get a penalty because one has made a mistake and not been aware of what’s going on.
It’s probably more frustrating for me cos I’m bad at qualifying I’m s/s rated I think 63k dr 405ish races and just over 100 wins
I’m usually pretty good at making fair moves clean moves and overtakes now I don’t think you can even hope to overtake against anyone. And i avoid contact as much as I can and still found it impossible to race cos of the unpredictable people not quite seeing you or thinking it’s there corner from 5m behind you and things

I hope this goes to the old system ASAP this penalty system change feels like as much of a flop as the 2016 elimination qualifying

 

[GTWelsh]

Fixing it to correctly apportion blame (even most of the time) is never going to happen.

Agree, if PD ever got it to blame people correctly most of the time it would be pretty nice, but something I put in the "never going to happen" category.

My thoughts on this are, that stated above, low expectations and the fact that I rarely hit anyone, and so the odd occasion I get hit is a minor annoyance at most. I'm often not an overly aggressive overtaker in Sport mode either so any move done is usually clean. If it was dodgy I'd pull out pretty quick, but we all make mistakes granted. I've been side by side round Interlagos for a whole lap nearly before now give or take. No contact with one guy for ages until someone else with less racing skill joined in, 1 corner and contact (not my fault, went round a hairpin side by side and he pushed wide into me after I have him loads of room on inside, typical move from someone fast on their own but can't race with others). Contact is often a choice, but its a choice people don't know they're making because they're too focused on winning and not just having fun racing.

 

[Sean Renon]

We are all trying to race is the deal, this penalty system makes you scared to get close to another car let alone overtake it.

The rubbing is racing term is fine not because of the class were in f1or gt but cos it’s a game and when there is no real fear involved with contact of course people will nudge each other a little bit

The most obvious and frustrating scenario is going for a move up the inside your fully along side but they turn in
Might not have seen you might be trying to squeeze you or whatever that’s fine but if your now getting penalties every time joe Dave and bob slightly turn into you or even worse hit you from behind and you both get a penalty because one has made a mistake and not been aware of what’s going on.
It’s probably more frustrating for me cos I’m bad at qualifying I’m s/s rated I think 63k dr 405ish races and just over 100 wins
I’m usually pretty good at making fair moves clean moves and overtakes now I don’t think you can even hope to overtake against anyone. And i avoid contact as much as I can and still found it impossible to race cos of the unpredictable people not quite seeing you or thinking it’s there corner from 5m behind you and things

I hope this goes to the old system ASAP this penalty system change feels like as much of a flop as the 2016 elimination qualifying

Overtaking should be hard, and as people get more used to the system they'll be more aware when driving in traffic.
I'm not a fan of love taps, shoving your nose "gently" into my side panel - diving for spots and getting away with rubbing.

The new system promotes racing and two drivers battling for position becomes much more difficult and slows you down drastically.

 

[kevlar_hybrid]

I *WANT* to be this scared of touching someone when I'm trying to get past them. It should be like that.

I DO NOT want to be this scared of someone touching me from behind when they're trying to pass me because I know I'll cop a 5sec and -SR if they *do* touch me!

 

[mc0029]

Likewise. Very confused reading this negativity today after getting a clean race bonus despite being bumped from behind twice last night.

SR S? Its a completely different game at the lower SR levels. The SR B & A races I did yesterday on my fresh account had some door touching and small bumper taps with no penalties of note. They were fantastic races actually. Back to the main account, DR A SR 99. Bumped and pushed wide in turn 1 from pole, penalty. Slow to serve penalty, race over. Makes 0 sense that the penalties are so lax on the lower lever and race killing in SR S.

 

[KK78]

I disagree..
I'm not against paint trading, but the majority of the drivers out there do not know their limits, and the guy in front who drives clean suffers consequences.

Those drivers that want to trade paint, they first need to learn to race without contact, and after they've mastered that, then they can push the limits, and start trading paint. Learn to walk before you start to run. Some discipline is badly needed so I see this update as an improvement.

I don't disagree with you per say but 'drivers not knowing their limits' and the 'clean guy in front' are not mutually exclusive and the system at present appears to want to hammer anyone who dares to push the guy in front which will invariably lead to some level of contact at times. Let's not forget the guy in front also doesn't always know their limits either and at worst will go out of their way to block those behind, is this the ideal solution? Should we all just play ball for fear of losing SR/DR?

As I mentioned earlier the game is effectively asking racers to know their opponents inside out which is impossible, I'm all for been patient, in fact I'm more cautious than most but if I know I'm faster I will try to pass but the game makes no distinction between me passing cleanly but the opponent blocking or me nudging the opponent and sending them off the track. Just because someone is in front doesn't mean they should be absolved for poor driving.

 

[Alfabob46]

I suppose normally if any one hits you from behind they should get a penalty wether its a gentle bump and run or a more substantial hit even if you go off or not. Simple enough it's the car behinds fault.

Then you have people trying to use this to their advantage by slowing/lifting off throttle/brake checking etc, or waiting an extra 5 meters on corner exit to get on the throttle so the driver directly behind hits them and then gets a penalty so they can drive on.
The same out come a nose to tail incident but the blame is different for each incident.
I think the parameters set in the game are struggling to work this out. So the penalty in some cases are being unfairly given.
Top this with odd yellow flag penalty or going off loosing 5+ seconds hitting a barrier getting back on the track loosing many positions and then getting a penalty also it's becoming a crazy time.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I've been screwed 100% of the time. All the fun is gone. Now it's just "please don't touch me, please don't touch me, please don't touch me, please don't touch me".

I'm also in the top 10 of the nations series and I noticed no times posted yesterday for anyone in the top 10. Coincidence? Maybe. Or maybe they've got the most to lose in a system that penalizes them for no fault of their own.

I remember the ghosting system in GT6. It wasn't perfect, but if someone got on the brakes late, they ghosted and the person in front wasn't taken out of the race. As noted about the driving line, this can also be implemented to stop brake checks. If a player applies more than X% of brakes in a non-braking zone, he becomes ghost. We've got ghosts for lapped traffic now, and ghosts for yellow flags, so put the ghost system to good use and apply it to bad drivers. No one can dive bomb anyone if they are a ghost.

I would rather we were all ghosts and just driving our fastest laps with no contact penalty, than this no fault system where the victim gains the same, if not MORE penalty than the aggressor. Don't even start with that RIDICULOUS yellow flag penalty that has absolutely ZERO place in this game.

SR S? Its a completely different game at the lower SR levels. The SR B & A races I did yesterday on my fresh account had some door touching and small bumper taps with no penalties of note. They were fantastic races actually. Back to the main account, DR A SR 99. Bumped and pushed wide in turn 1 from pole, penalty. Slow to serve penalty, race over. Makes 0 sense that the penalties are so lax on the lower lever and race killing in SR S.

Wait, WHAT?????

So this new system is MORE lenient for the drivers that need the most penalizing? Who the heck thought that was a good idea? How does a lower ranking player learn what to do or what not to do, if the system doesn't penalize them?

So not only is it a no fault system, if you are a higher ranking driver, it's always going to be YOUR fault!! No wonder the dissenters are mostly DR A and DR S.

 

[Mr616]

The threat of DR loss isn't going to stop them, yet DR penalties ruin the system. Not a fair trade!!

The only way to implement a DR loss in a way that's reasonable to the system is by position penalty at the end of the race. (I'm assuming for now that a disqualification counts the same as DNF did before, so that's OK). But for that, the system would need to apportion blame, which frankly it is crap at.

What isn't OK is taking points out of an Elo-based system, especially since there's no way to gain points except from other player's points. But start down that road and it isn't an Elo-based system any more, it's something else (which might be fine, but I wouldn't trust PD to design it!).

But also I firmly believe the two ratings should measure two different, separate, things, and just do the best they can at those. (Note that #1 in my post pretends to the user that they have been docked DR, and probably affects matchmaking as well). Then the matchmaking has the best information possible available to it.

Note that the key point of my post is that SR is the rating that needs most attention, since that 99 SR thing is a real problem. @Mr616 also.



Aren't you violently agreeing with me there? My points #3 and #6 basically say do away with fault and therefore do away with time penalties for collisions.

And I'm not saying nothing extra gets tacked on later, but first the SR has to have a solid core way of working. That is vital.

I get what you are saying, and it does highlight what needs addressing.

Under the old system, I felt like my clean driving was setting me back, because far to many at DR:A DR:S drivers would just nudge, bump or squeeze and force through gaps that were not there, sending me wide or off track for another 2 or 3 cars to take advantage. That is a problem to me.

This current change has improved my experience because, people are driving more like I do.

I can watch streams of SR:S drivers racing and still wonder why they go for some gaps and force their way through. They are supposed to be the best, yet watching some of them race looks like they just drive qually laps in the race and make themselves room. That should not be an option but the old system let you do it. Half a cars width? Yep i'll force in there and make room. Well, that to me is not racing and is not true overtaking.

Yes the system needs work, but then again so does the racecraft of some DR:A and DR:S players.

SR is far to easy to get, and far to hard to lose, and there are far to many who hold that rank that frankly, shouldn't be anywhere near it. That certainly does need addressing, but for now, toning down this penalty system is still a step in the right direction in attempting to weed out all the "rubbing is racing" crowd who, with a better SR system, would not hold SR:S at all.

 

[KK78]

I think the parameters set in the game are struggling to work this out. So the penalty in some cases are being unfairly given.
Top this with odd yellow flag penalty or going off loosing 5+ seconds hitting a barrier getting back on the track loosing many positions and then getting a penalty also it's becoming a crazy time.

I've never really understood the point of the penalties for colliding with the environment. You're on Blue Moon, 1st turn, leading by 3 seconds, you overcook it and hit the wall, it slows you down dramatically as it should, others swerve to pass you, you steady yourself, picking up speed and a 5 second penalty pops up so you slow down again and some poor soul behind ploughs into the back of you

 

[JulesDennis]

Not sure what you mean by fixing the penalty system?...Fixing it to correctly apportion blame (even most of the time) is never going to happen.

I agree that there is never going to be a system to determent "offender" and "victum".
But the penalty system has to change.
Its really bad when every single contact gives a time penalty that has to be served on track during the race.They did not change the "system".They just made it more strict.
That creates even more problems and solves nothing,because they did not fix what actually needs fixing.

 

[mc0029]

Wait, WHAT?????

So this new system is MORE lenient for the drivers that need the most penalizing? Who the heck thought that was a good idea? How does a lower ranking player learn what to do or what not to do, if the system doesn't penalize them?

So not only is it a no fault system, if you are a higher ranking driver, it's always going to be YOUR fault!! No wonder the dissenters are mostly DR A and DR S.

Yes, give it a try I wonder how it works with a field of S's & A's together

 

[Pedinhuh]

So I just raced a lot yesterday after downloading the update, and this is what I noticed:

-Sometimes, a driver in front of me would turn into my line to make a corner, and I would unvoluntarily collide with him, before the update I would get a orange SR after passing through the sector's checkpoint, for that, now I don't get any SR after passing through the checkpoint, no orange and no green either.

-The Timer flashes blue once you get a penalty so you can notice it.

-Now, if I receive a penalty, I have to brake and lose my pace to serve the penalty time, before that I could just release the accelerator for a couple of seconds, not losing much of my pace.

-I haven't received a penalty for passing a ghosted car under yellow fag yet.

-I have been consistently getting blue SR after each race, though be fair I'm more of a safe driver than a fast driver, also I started from SR E, I'm already at B.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I can watch streams of SR:S drivers racing and still wonder why they go for some gaps and force their way through. They are supposed to be the best, yet watching some of them race looks like they just drive qually laps in the race and make themselves room.

Please give me a single champion driver, in any FIA class, that was not aggressive. I would post videos of the ones that are/were, but there isn't enough room in a single post. Making room and being aggressive IS good racing. It is sport in general. I accept it, although personally, I try not to wedge my way past. I prefer the pressure technique and wait for a mistake.

But that's neither here nor there in regards to these changes. This system rewards the lucky and the less skilled.

I agree that there is never going to be a system to determent "offender" and "victum".
But the penalty system has to change.
Its really bad when every single contact gives a time penalty that has to be served on track during the race.They did not change the "system".They just made it more strict.
That creates even more problems and solves nothing,because they did not fix what actually needs fixing.

Again, the best answer is ghosting drivers who brake late, run off line, or brake in inappropriate locations. The game KNOWS THIS ALREADY!! How do I know this for sure? It's the same system used for scrubbing off the penalties. It's ALREADY IN THE SYSTEM!

It's the best answer. If you make a mistake, you become a ghost. It costs you position AND it denies you the ability to block the player behind you and you are left with no one to blame but yourself!

 

[xxxman1]

Did a race B lately, I was the leading car and the 2nd one gave me a very tiny bump at one corner. Both of us were not affected and kept going. Suddenly I got 3seconds penalty. A few corners later the penalty go up. Then I off the racing line to serve the penalty. When join the race again, hit by another car again and penalty again. Game over for me. I

 

[Ryan Sandall]

Overtaking
I'm not a fan of love taps, shoving your nose "gently" into my side panel - diving for spots and getting away with rubbing.

The new system promotes racing

Overtaking should be hard, and as people get more used to the system they'll be more aware when driving in traffic.
I'm not a fan of love taps, shoving your nose "gently" into my side panel - diving for spots and getting away with rubbing.

The new system promotes racing and two drivers battling for position becomes much more difficult and slows you down drastically.

I never said overtaking is easy it’s not you have to be in control and more often than not over the limit cos moves are difficult to make. But I’m okay with race craft like it’s a challenge for sure. I never intend to hit anyone when I overtake either. When I pass I try to make it as clear to the other driver if I do not think they are quite up to speed or something, that I’m on the inside like I’ll be a next to them bumper in line with them but they still turn in but that’s fine cos not everyone is watching out for being overtaken and probably thought they broke late but maybe I managed to be later than they realised and they turn in there is a little contact no harm is done cos no one will spin the guy i overtook is right on my bumper again s no time lost so all is good
Where as now that would be 1 or 2 second penalty for both and we’d have to basically pull over almost like at a bus stop

It definitely doesn’t promote racing cos as soon as you start battling one guy will slightly nudge another cos your both on the limit maybe worn tyres and then penalty instant despite the race being not ruined by anything

 

[banckzy]

[QUOTE="Voodoovaj, post: Wait, WHAT?????

So this new system is MORE lenient for the drivers that need the most penalizing? Who the heck thought that was a good idea? How does a lower ranking player learn what to do or what not to do, if the system doesn't penalize them?

So not only is it a no fault system, if you are a higher ranking driver, it's always going to be YOUR fault!! No wonder the dissenters are mostly DR A and DR S.[/QUOTE]

is this actually true?! what a travesty if so...

 

[SHGTP]

Now completed a few races and the racing is much cleaner. People now realise if you are half a second quicker per lap it doesn't give you the right to divebomb the competition and expect to wipe off the penalty by coasting into a few corners. Real racing involves frustration, but it's more rewarding to pressure the driver in front into a mistake, than nudge them off.

Also been involved in a few 'rubbing is racing' incidents and didn't receive a penalty (quite rightly). With the previous system it felt like any contact was punished.

 

[Sean Renon]

I never said overtaking is easy it’s not you have to be in control and more often than not over the limit cos moves are difficult to make. But I’m okay with race craft like it’s a challenge for sure. I never intend to hit anyone when I overtake either. When I pass I try to make it as clear to the other driver if I do not think they are quite up to speed or something, that I’m on the inside like I’ll be a next to them bumper in line with them but they still turn in but that’s fine cos not everyone is watching out for being overtaken and probably thought they broke late but maybe I managed to be later than they realised and they turn in there is a little contact no harm is done cos no one will spin the guy i overtook is right on my bumper again s no time lost so all is good
Where as now that would be 1 or 2 second penalty for both and we’d have to basically pull over almost like at a bus stop

It definitely doesn’t promote racing cos as soon as you start battling one guy will slightly nudge another cos your both on the limit maybe worn tyres and then penalty instant despite the race being not ruined by anything

I agree that the game has shifted to the side of "too strict", but before imo it was too lenient as people could dive bomb inside you and as long as they only "gently" shoved you out - they wouldn't be penalized.

The new system is not only going to promote clean passing, but also clean defensive driving - it's going to take drivers awhile to adjust to the new rules, but if you can continue to be aggressive (within reason) I think after a few weeks you'll see drivers change there attitude.
You won't see people trying to squeeze you out as much, you'll see them give you space alongside you etc etc, because contact is going to punish both of us, not just one (or none).

 

[Mr616]

Please give me a single champion driver, in any FIA class, that was not aggressive. I would post videos of the ones that are/were, but there isn't enough room in a single post. Making room and being aggressive IS good racing. It is sport in general. I accept it, although personally, I try not to wedge my way past. I prefer the pressure technique and wait for a mistake.

But that's neither here nor there in regards to these changes. This system rewards the lucky and the less skilled.

In the top groups, in FIA I can understand as there is a little bit of something to be aggressive over, but in dailies against strangers, that type of driving doesn't belong I'm afraid. It just breeds others to drive the same, which in turn makes it a nudge fest.

I hate contact and do not like overtaking if I've nudged someone. A brush or tiny dink I'm fine with but everybody should be always trying to avoid contact, not just edge their best on every car they catch.

Last night I maintained SR:S 99, all night. I didn't see one divebomb which is unthinkable given the last few weeks of my GTS lobbys.

The new system is flawed yes, but people don't understand it properly yet, so with time it should improve and as I have said more than once, it does need toning down, but this is a huge step in the right direction, and I hope the culture shock to some will teach a few racecraft lessons.

To be frank, the DR:A & S and SR:S does not feel like I'm racing people who know what they are doing. Or they Know exactly what they are doing (i.e gaming the system). You said you have left sport mode. Well I have returned after over a week off, because of the amount of Forza like racing standards at the high levels. That to me is wholly unacceptable. High rank should look like real racing, and feel like real racing, which it didn't to me.

 

[Outspacer]

Overtaking should be hard, and as people get more used to the system they'll be more aware when driving in traffic.
I'm not a fan of love taps, shoving your nose "gently" into my side panel - diving for spots and getting away with rubbing.

The new system promotes racing and two drivers battling for position becomes much more difficult and slows you down drastically.

I don't mind a singular love tap, it's almost inevitable when you're racing against people you don't know well. But the constant tap-tap-tap round a corner is a real wind-up (say when you're in different cars, with different strengths). I think every little tap should be a little SR down, so those people get an appropriate SR level, while the rest of us don't suffer much from our far less frequent taps.

I get what you are saying, and it does highlight what needs addressing.

Under the old system, I felt like my clean driving was setting me back, because far to many at DR:A DR:S drivers would just nudge, bump or squeeze and force through gaps that were not there, sending me wide or off track for another 2 or 3 cars to take advantage. That is a problem to me.

This current change has improved my experience because, people are driving more like I do.

I can watch streams of SR:S drivers racing and still wonder why they go for some gaps and force their way through. They are supposed to be the best, yet watching some of them race looks like they just drive qually laps in the race and make themselves room. That should not be an option but the old system let you do it. Half a cars width? Yep i'll force in there and make room. Well, that to me is not racing and is not true overtaking.

Yes the system needs work, but then again so does the racecraft of some DR:A and DR:S players.

SR is far to easy to get, and far to hard to lose, and there are far to many who hold that rank that frankly, shouldn't be anywhere near it. That certainly does need addressing, but for now, toning down this penalty system is still a step in the right direction in attempting to weed out all the "rubbing is racing" crowd who, with a better SR system, would not hold SR:S at all.

I hear you, but TBH I'm A/S as well and don't often come up against those 'aggressive' drivers. Still, the system needs improving so their habits get noted in their SR rating.

And that's the thing - dishing out time penalties doesn't fix the SR levels of those people, it just messes up races when people have to serve penalties. It might help a bit to tone them down, but so would far less intrusive changes.

I agree that there is never going to be a system to determent "offender" and "victum".
But the penalty system has to change.
Its really bad when every single contact gives a time penalty that has to be served on track during the race.They did not change the "system".They just made it more strict.
That creates even more problems and solves nothing,because they did not fix what actually needs fixing.

OK, so I think we mostly agree, certainly we agree that SR calculation needs to become more accurate... but maybe differ in that I'd say there should be no time penalties at all for collisions?

is this actually true?! what a travesty if so...

Not sure about that, I watched a streamed race of mid-level drivers and they were getting time penalties. PD did say something related to additional penalties in the release notes though, so maybe they've applied it to other cases as well:
"If a driver continues to drive without complying with a certain amount of Time Penalty, additional time penalties will be added. (The additional penalty depends on the DR)"

It would be a travesty, indeed. As an A, does this mean I can barge my way past an S, knowing he'll be scared of me? And that I'd be just as vulnerable to a B? Awful idea.

 

[Carlos Ayala]

Did a race B lately, I was the leading car and the 2nd one gave me a very tiny bump at one corner. Both of us were not affected and kept going. Suddenly I got 3seconds penalty. A few corners later the penalty go up. Then I off the racing line to serve the penalty. When join the race again, hit by another car again and penalty again. Game over for me. I

Described my race exactly, sorry PD but I won't be racing again until I read a new update has dealt with this issues. I really care for my DR A and my (now lost) SR S.

 

[TechnoWales]

I'e gone from SR B to SR S since the change yesterday.

 

[Mirror_man]

I'e gone from SR B to SR S since the change yesterday.

Lucky guy!!!! Which races did you run?

 

[Skiddy]

I don't disagree with you per say but 'drivers not knowing their limits' and the 'clean guy in front' are not mutually exclusive and the system at present appears to want to hammer anyone who dares to push the guy in front which will invariably lead to some level of contact at times. Let's not forget the guy in front also doesn't always know their limits either and at worst will go out of their way to block those behind, is this the ideal solution? Should we all just play ball for fear of losing SR/DR?

As I mentioned earlier the game is effectively asking racers to know their opponents inside out which is impossible, I'm all for been patient, in fact I'm more cautious than most but if I know I'm faster I will try to pass but the game makes no distinction between me passing cleanly but the opponent blocking or me nudging the opponent and sending them off the track. Just because someone is in front doesn't mean they should be absolved for poor driving.

That's all nice and dandy, but you can't expect the computer algorithm to make fair judgement about who was right and who was wrong during a pass that resulted in some kind of contact. There will always be people who would judge situation differently, and see something different in every situation.

I more often get into situation where I qualify well, but then I get pushed of the track by somebody who is over ambitious..And I see on this forums I'm not the only one. So in that regard I believe this update is a move in the right direction.

 

[Downhill Dino]

Again, the best answer is ghosting drivers who brake late, run off line, or brake in inappropriate locations. The game KNOWS THIS ALREADY!! How do I know this for sure? It's the same system used for scrubbing off the penalties. It's ALREADY IN THE SYSTEM!

It's the best answer. If you make a mistake, you become a ghost. It costs you position AND it denies you the ability to block the player behind you and you are left with no one to blame but yourself!

Then we're back to GT5 Prologue and that was so abusable.