Just Raced Under The New Algorithms and Rules

[Herrybo79]

It makes sense if PD is trying to cull the herd at SR S and even S/S and A/S. It may be in further preparation for FIA seasons and preparing for eSports events. I hate that it's so strict, but I think we have all agreed that there are a lot of us who do not know our limits and aren't as clean as we think. There are also issues of people who absolutely do not belong in high rankings, but have gotten away with the 99/99 SR cushion and how easy it is to gain SR.

IF that is their plan, I suppose I can't be upset. If the racing is more fun and back to form in the lower rankings, great! The majority of players are already there, and a whole lot of us at the higher levels will be heading down that way to join them if we can't race in this new no-touch world. The top end will be reserved for respectable racing that will be presentable in front of a larger audience.

100% Agree

 

[tofuhero]

I think people should probably give these changes a week or two to shake out before writing long screeds with lots of exclamation points. It may change driver behaviors and it may end up as a net positive. If it becomes harder to be SR S, well many people were lamenting that before the changes. SR S should be the cleanest of the clean, the "aliens" of clean driving. If you want to trade paint, do that down in SR B or something.

The only thing I've seen that I disagree with is forcing people to scrub off penalties immediately and sitting on straights, leading to tracks that feel more like you're driving in a police chase on a freeway, dodging traffic, instead of driving on a race track. Either they need to ghost drivers who are scrubbing penalties, or in my preference disallow scrubbing completely and just take your licks.

 

[Senna52]

What does this have to do with Yellow flag penalties? Or when a spinning car hits you?

The assumption is that a "bad driver" is getting penalized, but its the innocent drivers that are getting penalized.

And if a spinning car hits you in a real race, your race is over.

I’m an S/S. Ran 6 races last night with one single penalty. The races were clean and people seemed to be adapting well.

I think it is a tad strict, but I also think a lot people are overestimating their driving.

 

[Ryan Sandall]

i dont like that alwyas people complaining, if it‘s a,contact in real life, maybe your Car is damaged, doesnt matter its your fault or not. And i Will Never understanding why People cant overtake without a contact. Even i get yesterday a lot of Strange penalities, i am still Love to Play, because i try to Play without a contact, if i contact someone than its because i do a mistake or i cant read the mind of the other driver.....

It’s because it’s a game mate
In real life you can look around see what’s coming in this you can’t unless your really aware which I hope most are
Usually it’s clean but often a light tap which you wouldn’t think twice about is now a big issue
Also connections your playing against people across the continent and if they have a little bit of lag they might hit you and that’s 2 seconds down the drain whether it was a bad hit or not
No one is trying to have contact with someone but not everyone understands how to leave room it seems in my case

 

[mthomas_95]

I think people should probably give these changes a week or two to shake out before writing long screeds with lots of exclamation points. It may change driver behaviors and it may end up as a net positive. If it becomes harder to be SR S, well many people were lamenting that before the changes. SR S should be the cleanest of the clean, the "aliens" of clean driving. If you want to trade paint, do that down in SR B or something.

The only thing I've seen that I disagree with is forcing people to scrub off penalties immediately and sitting on straights, leading to tracks that feel more like you're driving in a police chase on a freeway, dodging traffic, instead of driving on a race track. Either they need to ghost drivers who are scrubbing penalties, or in my preference disallow scrubbing completely and just take your licks.

They are planning (and currently testing) broadcasting the top lobby races where the penalties are at the most extreme. Won't make for a great spectator sport with everyone 2 seconds apart because they're afraid of getting a penalty for a little love tap.

The previous system was decent, maybe not strong enough at lower SR levels but at S despite a few bad eggs 90% are clean and fair. If they want to encourage fairer driving throughout Sport Mode, they need to be tougher at the lower SR drivers before they move up, not the top guys.

 

[FUNanywhere]

I don't how people are getting pens but i didn't in below cases even after contact

 

[kilesa4568]

Don't get why PD is overthinking these rules, it was fine prior hand for the most part. They should instead focus on creating new tracks and getting licenses for new cars. And they shouldn't look at this community for feedback on racing rules too much, this community is the competitive minority that get frustrated at everything. Most GT players are probably not that competitive. Everyone is complaining about the new rules.

The penalties were tragically ineffective before this update and everyone (apart from the people who gamed them) hated them as it was possible to work around them. Seriously, if you can work out how to accept penalties but gain positions from them at the same time, something was fundamentally wrong with them.

I don't see the point of new cars and tracks until the core game play is fixed for everyone. Get that right or at least better, then we can enjoy new cars and tracks. I think you might be putting the cart before the horse there...

One last thing. Everyone isn't complaining about the new system and hopefully PD don't listen to you and do listen to feedback from places like this. A little bit of tweaking to the collision measurement and possibly introduce ghosting for cars that are off the throttle to serve their penalties, you've got a much better system to how it was. Give them a chance to fine tune it.

 

[Krypton78]

What goes on my nerves is saying its all crap without explanation, without beeing objective and only judging on his personal race-succses. There is a little responsibility about what you write here. GT Planet is the main forum for Gran turismo, I'm sure every post is read by dozens, maybe hundreds of players. And writing everything down because of frustraton just keeps this people away from sports mode.

Of course it sucks when you get punished because somebody hits you from behind or in the apex. But that will force everybody to be more careful.

And, as an example, people often write "the other car went into the corner, like I wasn't there". Maybe YOU went into the apex as if HE is not there. Thaught about it? It is not allowed to close the door when your are around the apex from the curve. You can close the door to the driver behind you before the curve, not IN the curve.

Just an example that everything is a point of view sometimes.

Once a player insulted me after the race badly. I asked him by message later, why. He said, I ramed him. I watched the replay and as I was sure before, I of course didnt ram him. He ramed me two laps before the point he was complaining about. And besides, he ramed an another guy, too. And finally he was ramed by an another another guy (sorry dunno how to write in english)

So the situation was completely different as he thought it was. Btw, he was an A-Driver like me, so, no, we arent talking about crashkids.

At least finaly he apologized after I messaged him again and told him the situation.

 

[tofuhero]

The previous system was decent, maybe not strong enough at lower SR levels but at S despite a few bad eggs 90% are clean and fair. If they want to encourage fairer driving throughout Sport Mode, they need to be tougher at the lower SR drivers before they move up, not the top guys.

I won't make sweeping conclusions yet because it's just too early. The race I did last night was much more polite than usual, with a mix of D/S to S/S drivers, but that could have been a fluke.

But what I do think PD needs to do is give people more carrots. We have plenty of sticks.
- Driving School missions that teach racecraft and clean driving in real situations
- Instructional videos explaining racing concepts
- Moment-to-moment rewards for clean driving that incentivize people to drive cleanly, such as: clean sector cash bonuses, clean pass bonus. This kind of constant positive reinforcement is not handled adequately by a clean race bonus that few people get.

 

[mthomas_95]

I won't make sweeping conclusions yet because it's just too early. The race I did last night was much more polite than usual, with a mix of D/S to S/S drivers, but that could have been a fluke.

But what I do think PD needs to do is give people more carrots. We have plenty of sticks.
- Driving School missions that teach racecraft and clean driving in real situations
- Instructional videos explaining racing concepts
- Moment-to-moment rewards for clean driving that incentivize people to drive cleanly, such as: clean sector cash bonuses, clean pass bonus. This kind of constant positive reinforcement is not handled adequately by a clean race bonus that few people get.

Agreed on the carrots, toning down clean race bonus from 150% to 50% was a bad move.

Interested to know if everyone in a DR S down to D race gets the same punishment for the same offence or if the DR affected penalties still exist with such a spread. D rated drivers can hit A/S guys knowing they'll get a penalty whilst they don't if that's the case.

 

[Mirror_man]

Race B Yesterday and Races A and C Today.

I see!!! Luckly yesterday you did´nt risk Race A.. or probably you would be... turned into a meat ball... that´s what I felt.. more or less on the lest race of 3 that I performed there...

 

[Outspacer]

The penalties were tragically ineffective before this update and everyone (apart from the people who gamed them) hated them as it was possible to work around them. Seriously, if you can work out how to accept penalties but gain positions from them at the same time, something was fundamentally wrong with them.

I don't see the point of new cars and tracks until the core game play is fixed for everyone. Get that right or at least better, then we can enjoy new cars and tracks. I think you might be putting the cart before the horse there...

One last thing. Everyone isn't complaining about the new system and hopefully PD don't listen to you and do listen to feedback from places like this. A little bit of tweaking to the collision measurement and possibly introduce ghosting for cars that are off the throttle to serve their penalties, you've got a much better system to how it was. Give them a chance to fine tune it.

Honestly, I think you're deluding yourself if you think a little tweaking and fine-tuning from the current system is going to make it work well. And I reckon some people, like you, who think the changes are good are going to change their minds. We'll see

What goes on my nerves is saying its all crap without explanation...

It's all crap.

 

[Mirror_man]

Definitely feel the new system is better suited to lower ranks. It's the in the higher ranks I think it's problematic. Tiny taps, the kind that happen when you're trying to avoid contact, result in silly pens.

I'm going to keep racing and give the new system a chance, but not enamoured with it so far. Just making it a little less sensitive would probably be enough to fix things, though. I hope PD acts reasonably quickly and not for another scheduled update.

totally disagree.. at least during some days the guys from lower ranks have nothing to loose.. and want revenge (and raw meat).. since now they are even more punished then before.. for doing what they are used to do... (And they not only don´t know as they didn´t caer to learn.. to do... other then that.. play like a speed maniac using every move thy can to block and put everyone out of their way! (Wacky Racers. GTA Vilans..., Carmageddon Murders.. Death Race addicts... These are the dudes that are ruining the game and playing GTS like they played these games before...

 

[Lion-Face]

I don't how people are getting pens but i didn't in below cases even after contact

I'm assuming you are DRB. If that was me in your place, DRS, I would have received 2 penalties for the light contact through the essess, then a larger penalty for the slam through the long left hander.

The problem I see with your replays is that the drivers hitting you aren't getting penalties either. So it's not like they are learning anything. And when you make it up to A or S rank, then you will find driving like that will give you plenty of penalties even though you weren't at fault or trying to make contact.

I think the system is too lenient for DRB and lower, and too strict for DRA/S. There should be a middle ground. I like that it affects DR and is now forcing drivers to take their penalties rather than wash them off over a race, but the way they are being handed out in the high ranks is ridiculous and the few B rank drivers I have seen aren't getting hit at all for something I know I would be punished hard for.

 

[FUNanywhere]

Story of the day

5 races at Yama,Race C. Didn't get a single penalty. Blue SR in all 5 Races.

Finished 4th,6th,12th(Down to DR B coz of this),4th and 4th again (Back to DR A )


I can surely say people are lot more careful now and hesitate to overtake. I also think twice now. One or 2 occasion i did go aggressively i was like oh no will i get a pen but thankfully none.

Great Job PD.

Heres a Video of one pretty good battle. Did i do something wrong here?

 

[mthomas_95]

I'm assuming you are DRB. If that was me in your place, DRS, I would have received 2 penalties for the light contact through the essess, then a larger penalty for the slam through the long left hander.

The problem I see with your replays is that the drivers hitting you aren't getting penalties either. So it's not like they are learning anything. And when you make it up to A or S rank, then you will find driving like that will give you plenty of penalties even though you weren't at fault or trying to make contact.

I think the system is too lenient for DRB and lower, and too strict for DRA/S. There should be a middle ground. I like that it affects DR and is now forcing drivers to take their penalties rather than wash them off over a race, but the way they are being handed out in the high ranks is ridiculous and the few B rank drivers I have seen aren't getting hit at all for something I know I would be punished hard for.

There's going to be a lot of unhappy people at B or below when they get up to A and start getting penalties for driving they got away with thanks to the current penalty system. In theory the penalties should decrease as you move up.

Sounds like you can get away with murder at D/E and be murdered for a 0.1mph differential tap at S.

 

[Outspacer]

totally disagree.. at least during some days the guys from lower ranks have nothng to loose.. and want revenge (and raw meat).. since now they are even more punished then before.. for doing what they are used to do...

You know, in a lot of cases I don't think the lower ranks care about the rankings anything like as much as DR B and up do. If I'm right, then now they will avoid collisions more because of the time penalties, their SR will rise as a result, and everybody will become SR S - quite the opposite of what some people like to think this change has made. (I'm exaggerating, of course).

'Punished'... an SR drop isn't really punishment, it's just trying to measure people. Time penalties are punishment though.

 

[kilesa4568]

Honestly, I think you're deluding yourself if you think a little tweaking and fine-tuning from the current system is going to make it work well.

Deluded could be a bit strong, considering nobody knows how they'll fine tune it or if they'll fine tune it at all. I've said already that it needs work though. Even offering ideas in what you've quoted.

And I reckon some people, like you, who think the changes are good are going to change their minds. We'll see

We shall as I'm going on to test it shortly and I'll give an honest appraisal when I have. I'm not sure it'll be that relevant though as I'm not a top flight player. DRA at best.

 

[mthomas_95]

If this is a temporary measure to weed out the worst offenders from S then it'll be worth it actually, only reason I can think making it stricter at A/S compared to other levels. Worth driving like James May for a week or so for it to sort itself out and then hopefully they soften the penalty algorithm to ignore the smallest, non consequential bumps to encourage enjoyable, hard racing that's good to watch for eSports.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I did a bunch of daily B races on Magiorre and it seems the penalty system is vastly improved. Races are better behaved and more often than not the dirty drivers get punished.

I've been rammed a couple times at T1, didn't get a penalty for it. I had two dirty drivers messing with each other in front of me, then they both suddenly stepped on the brakes to serve their penalties together, I brake yet couldn't avoid, hit them, no penalty. (Unfortunately I did lose a position as the car behind me had more time to react)
At the last turn I'm stuck behind them again, follow closely without contact to plan a better exit, a 3rd dirty driver behind me uses me as a guard rail to force himself in front by cutting the corner. No penalty for me. At the end all 3 had red ratings and penalties, yet I was fine with a blue rating.

While racing normal against someone else, slight bumps are still forgiven. It's more satisfying now to see the bad drivers with a red S or even red A at the end. The only annoying thing is that sometimes you have to step off the road to avoid contact when there are people fighting in front of you, which can result in shortcut penalties. Not always though. If you slow down properly and rejoin the road asap you're usually fine.

When i do end up with a 2 or 3 sec penalty from someone running into me, I choose to carry it on to the finish. It works much better than slowing down. I never see the person again that bumped me and slowed to serve their penalty. It just sucks when there is another car behind you.

 

[Carlos Ayala]

I've worked with real FIA officials for five years, even in real life races drivers for first offences get warnings (such as taping the front guy's rear bumper) if you do again, second warning... The third time and after creating a pattern you are awarded with a much well deserved stop and go or something big for you to understand what is not allowed. On the other hand if you bomb dive and use other guy's cars as your brakes you're instantly disqualified and have your license retired for good.
I REALLY THINK A COMPUTER CAN BE SET TO RECOGNIZE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A SLIGHT TAP ON YOUR BUMPER AND A KAMIKAZE ATTACK FAR BETTER THAN A FLESH AND BLOOD OFFICIAL STANDING AT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE CIRCUIT. Really disgusted with 1.13 rule changes, I've had really nice races with people with whom we've congratulated afterwards, same races that now wouldn't exist under the current rules. I will play again when I read that I will only be held accountable for my very own stupidity, no someone else's.

 

[Outspacer]

Deluded could be a bit strong, considering nobody knows how they'll fine tune it or if they'll fine tune it at all. I've said already that it needs work though. Even offering ideas in what you've quoted.

It's just an expression... point is, I do think you're being overly optimistic. Fine-tuning and so on is fine when the basics are sound, but in this case they really are not, IMO. Adding extra stuff on top like ghosting would simply mask the flaws of the underlying system, not fix it.

What sense does it make to have both players involved in a collision get a time penalty?

Isn't what we all want simply that SR more accurately reflects drivers, so dirty ones aren't in SR S?

We shall as I'm going on to test it shortly and I'll give an honest appraisal when I have. I'm not sure it'll be that relevant though as I'm not a top flight player. DRA at best.

As always, it will depend on whether you start mid-pack or near the front. For the latter, I get clean race bonus more often than not, so none of this would affect me anyway for those races! Anyway, good luck 👍

 

[Krypton78]

I did a bunch of daily B races on Magiorre and it seems the penalty system is vastly improved. Races are better behaved and more often than not the dirty drivers get punished.

Thats it.

 

[JacksHerer]

I thought I would see what all the fuss is about, so I logged on with my DR:B/SR:S sub account...

I don't know my way around the fantasy tracks and need to look at the map to remind myself what sort of bend is coming up.

I had 10+ little bumps with other cars yet didn't receive any time penalties?

I cut a few corners and received time penalties which I couldn't scrub, despite not knowing the tracks and going really slow around corners. I ended up having to practically stop on a straight to get rid of the penalties.. this cost so much time that I should probably have just carried them to the finish line.

I have to say I really like this 'harsh' system.

 

[Lion-Face]

Heres a Video of one pretty good battle. Did i do something wrong here?

Running off the track at the start would have resulted in a penalty, maybe 5 seconds forcing you to take it, then dropping you back to 8th and not having a battle at all. Then again the final accident would have resulted in a penalty as well.

Your biggest problem is not running radar which means you are going in blind to a lot of corners in regarss to where your opponents are. Making incidents as much your fault as theirst

 

[Fentonflyer]

I'm not to happy with the new regs.

I just got rear ended by someone and I received a penalty in the usual braking zone, I also got one for no reason when someone some distance in front of me spun as I went by them I received a penalty, the yellow flag one has happened several times to me not that I am over taking a car that has not spun while in a yellow flag zone. Slowing down to clear them seems harder to do too.

I hate it too when you avoid someone who has made a mistake by running off the track a bit bit get a penalty for that too but I guess that a tough one to try regulate on the game.

I do agree with tougher penalties for people who crash on purpose to just gain a place, rear enders and people who force you off the track etc....

Sorry to rant!

 

[JacksHerer]

Drivers should get an instant SR drop for entering a race without using Radar

 

[Senna52]

I’m beginning to think that people who think this is the worst penalty system ever haven’t played other racing sims/games.

It’s not perfect, it won’t be perfect, and it could definitely get better. However, it’s pretty solid and works quite well. Absolutely changes could be made to make it better, and I hope they continue to improve, but people act as if the world has ended whenever they change or don’t change anything.

 

[AdamA998]

The penalties were tragically ineffective before this update and everyone (apart from the people who gamed them) hated them as it was possible to work around them. Seriously, if you can work out how to accept penalties but gain positions from them at the same time, something was fundamentally wrong with them.

I don't see the point of new cars and tracks until the core game play is fixed for everyone. Get that right or at least better, then we can enjoy new cars and tracks. I think you might be putting the cart before the horse there...

One last thing. Everyone isn't complaining about the new system and hopefully PD don't listen to you and do listen to feedback from places like this. A little bit of tweaking to the collision measurement and possibly introduce ghosting for cars that are off the throttle to serve their penalties, you've got a much better system to how it was. Give them a chance to fine tune it.

They made some good additions, like ghosting lapped cars and making sure you spend your penalty instantaneously. The light tap penalties are excessive though, as well as Dr drop in my opinion and opinion of others. So yeah, my post suggested they should keep the positive aspects and remove some not so necessary ones. Don't get what you're so worked up over.

 

[Krypton78]

PD did one big mistake. They didnt do this in the first place. Maybe they were concerned of scaring the people off with hard rules. But that was a big mistake. The chaos in the beginning time could have been avoided, and more people maybe would have continoued sport mode