Just Raced Under The New Algorithms and Rules

  • Thread starter GTFraker
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This needs serious tweaking. Just did race b, room mainly S DR with a few A's. Not the greatest quali time at 1.07.3xx but mid pack. Lap 1 the guy behind broke slightly late and tapped me marginally, giving me a 5 sec penalty. Another non fault graze later and I'm up to 8 seconds. I slow down to clear the time and start afresh towards the back. Reach the group in front, make the faintest of contacts through the final turn, no disruption to the guy in front, 5 second penalty. End result for what was a mildly boisterous race was a loss of 1000 DR and a downgrade to SR A from 99! What a joke. Great job PD
That’s tough. I haven’t been able to race the last few days, as I have the Flu, and was really excited about the new Penalty System but from what I read until here i‘m pretty undecided. But if the Penalty Algorithm now starts to punish me for getting rear ended, well, that also can’t be the right way.
 
The difference is that by forcing players to start slow and build speed, they learn lines and braking points. I have maintained since launch that most "dirty" drivers are not actually dirty. They are simply lacking skill.

It's a moot point for me in particular. In a room full of A's and S's everyone knows what they are supposed to do, but this is racing and in racing, stuff happens that you can't control. Instead of embracing that, PD has taken the philosophy that every race will be a perfect ballet of cars with no incidents what so ever, therefore all penalties are deserved.

The important take away is that all the poor elements of the system are still in place with none of the saving grace. I don't see how this is an improvement in any way, shape, or form. They addressed the yellow flag penalty because now it's 2 seconds instead of 5. Obviously they know the bug exists but are incapable or unwilling to fix it. The correct choice would have been to remove the penalty altogether.

This change will serve to reduce participation in the dailies and that's the last thing the dailies needed.



I am going to go with the latter.

Sorry but i disagree, you need to get a proper rating to get to the "fast" races and you need to drive clean to get the right ratings, that system is already in place. Limiting people to one race until they get "fast enough" makes no sense when you already have that in place.

Could PD implement a proper license test before they release people online? Absolutely, but keeping people out of the fun until they read a certain speed? no way. And the new system is leaps and bounds better than before, simply because the punishment is real now..
 
The new system seems to be the worst we had, EVER!
I first didn't want to believe what I read in here, but oh god, it is awful! :grumpy:

I get penalties for missing the turn and go wide, for getting dive-bombed and any other scenario you could think of. Its like Oprah stands next to the track and throws penalties to all of us. Or is Oprah the new marshal? You get a penalty, and you get one, everyone gets one :scared::lol:

In the last race, there were 7 S/S drivers and the rest were A/S. EVERY SINGLE ONE got a red dot for some penalty, even though the race was as fair as it can get.
Great job PD! Great ****** job :rolleyes:

Guess from the 6% who play online, 3% will leave the sport mode soon and only do Lobby racing. IF the system won't get a quick rework...

Ok, after another race, I'm done with sport mode. PD did it, they ruined the best aspect of the game... :guilty:
If you make the slightest contact you get a penalty now. Even in F1 theres more contact! Thats just not fun racing anymore...
 
That’s tough. I haven’t been able to race the last few days, as I have the Flu, and was really excited about the new Penalty System but from what I read until here i‘m pretty undecided. But if the Penalty Algorithm now starts to punish me for getting rear ended, well, that also can’t be the right way.
Starts to? That's what was happening before for me and didn't happen in a race last night
 
The only common ground here is dropping their level of contact for getting penalties to a more reasonable level. A small bump that affects the other car triggers one while paint trading doesn't. They needed to get tough on contact, hence the over the top penalties but now they don't promote racing as close.

The lower ranks need these penalties a lot more than the top ranks but I can't help wondering if some of the top drivers will exploit their lax penalties like they used to. I've read enough stories on here that some of them do that.
 
I was second and on the last corner the 3rd guy rammed me on purpose and I was in the braking zone and everything and got 7 secs penalty - so I finished 5th or 6th - gotta love this :)
 
I'm B/S, sebweaseluk. We need time on multiple track car combinations to fully understand how things work, but according to my limited experience people seem more cautious. I enjoyed the races and thank PD for their continued optimization work.
Lots of mentions of iRacing here, but what PD and Kaz are trying to achieve is targeting a larger audience. Even if only 10% of GTS buyers play online, we are already above iRacing membership numbers. Therefore let's keep on racing and the algorithm will become even better.
Also, lots of requests for racing etiquette tutorials. I agree, especially dive bombing / pushing wide could be explained, but defending on the inside works quite well for me.
Now here are my takeaways / shopping list for PD :D
1. Explain us a bit better how penalties and ghosting work, because I think it would help to know the rules (time per offense for example).
2. Again regarding ghosting, we need to know when the ghosted car is going back to solid. Maybe blinking?
3. Try to implement damage with no healing. Most accidents could punish late braking or ramming by increasing effect of front end damage.
4. As many people suggested, maybe no penalty scrubbing to avoid slow moving cars on the racing line.

Can't to see what's next. See you online!
 
Some of us still dont understand the main problem with GTS.The core of that is that "penalty system" is not even close to an "ok" system.
This has nothing to do with how strict or not it is.
To make it more clear:
Back in the closed beta,when some of us were "testing" the game it was clear -after a few days- that penalties (and the way they are connected to the SR rating) were not working as they should.PD changed pretty much nothing with the game getting released.
They chose to kinda copy-paste the iRacing rating system but created a really weird/simple mechanism to give penalties.Those are time based penalties but since the system is not able to determent "fault" (its actually hard to create that system),those penalties are given left and righ,no matter if you are at fault or not.There were cases that the "offender" got out free and the "victum" was penalized.Thats the only thing that PD tried to "correct" with the new update:
"Since our system cannot detect fault,almost every single contact will be given a time penalty".
So there are two main problems:
1_ The penalty system is not good.Was not good during the closed beta and have not changed up until now.
2_ SR rating not working as intended due to how its connected to a kinda "faulty" penalty system.
So if I (or any other user) get my SR rating to drop (or go up) unjustified is just because the "race penalty system" is not working.Its a side effect but a very important one,since SR is one of the two variables that do the matchmaking in the game and group players.
PD made a design choice that it did not work as they wanted and now they try to find a way around the problems that that system "created".
Now there is another problem to add to these.Its not in direct link with them but it does affect them:skills.I've did read another member pointing out racing craft (skills) -I dont recall who,sorry mate-.But he is right.
PD logic was "We are offering an e-sport competitive title that is for everyone.Sim racing does not equal hard racing game.Everyone can be part of it.This is what we think".
By promoting this idea or concept they created the wrong belief (especially to casual players) that anyone can be part of a competitive e-sport game.That simply is not true.A lot of people want to be part of the "elite" or "the best" but they lack the skills to do so.Many do not even understand the basics of sim online racing and/or lack the skills (racing craft,ability to race clean and fast at the same time) to make it happen.Others are willing to do anything (race dirty/exploit bugs/exploit the system for example) in order to do so.
All these combined have a serious impact to the racing experience in Sports Mode.I cannot see how things are going to impove but that a job for PD and not us -the players-.IMO by making the "penalty system" more strict is not enough-or a good solution (even though I want a strict penalty system to begin with in sim racing games).

EDIT:I've been writing a few months back that imo Sports mode need to have at least these in order to start getting better:
a- Realistic aids only (for those that want them)
b- Real tire/fuel consumption in every single race
c- Full damage on -again in every single race-
d- Since PD does not want to "force" one camera view,perhaps its better to give proper miror in every single one of them.
These,could be a better choice to start improving things that just making the time penalty system more strict.
 
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I agree with it’s a joke.
I don’t want to race anymore cos it’s almost impossible
I was in a race yesterday s/s rated and no one got away without a penalty
And every lap there were several cars on the side of the road taking them
Most of which I’m almost certain did nothing wrong maybe a light nudge something that even the receiver of the nudge wouldn’t be fussed about.

And then you pull over and slow so much it’s dangerous cos you get rear ended by people also pulling over to take penalties

It’s absolute carnage
You can’t race yeah in f1 you can have a no contact rule like this but this is a game with internet connections you and a bloke in another part of the world might missjudge where each other were and both get 2 second penalties for nothing

The old system was pretty good, maybe an odd decision here and there but this is an awful decision 90% of the time
 
Now there is another problem to add to these.Its not in direct link with them but it does affect them:skills.I've did read another member pointing out racing craft (skills) -I dont recall who,sorry mate-.But he is right.
PD logic was "We are offering an e-sport competitive title that is for everyone.Sim racing does not equal hard racing game.Everyone can be part of it.This is what we think".
By promoting this idea or concept they created the wrong belief (especially to casual players) that anyone can be part of a competitive e-sport game.That simply is not true.A lot of people want to be part of the "elite" or "the best" but they lack the skills to do so.Many do not even understand the basics of sim online racing and/or lack the skills (racing craft,ability to race clean and fast at the same time) to make it happen.Others are willing to do anything (race dirty/exploit bugs/exploit the system for example) in order to do so.

Actually, I think it's the other way around :) One streamer that I've watched a few races of is not greatly skilled, but not terrible either. Gets into quite a few bumps purely due to lack of skill rather than intent. He's failed by the ratings system - mainly the resets on DR points caused by SR falling. So not only does his SR go wildly up and down, so does his DR points. That means he's rarely going to get matched with people like him, where he'd probably have more enjoyable races.

Re. ratings etc, I'm thinking the simpler the better:
  1. There's no reason for the DR letter to be anything other than simply limited to not being higher than SR letter (and that is purely cosmetic, since the matchmaking could treat it as that regardless).
  2. There's no reason for DR points penalties of any kind, and every reason not to have them. SR and DR should be completely separate (apart from #1).
  3. Attempting to apportion blame is futile, so SR should return to a no-fault system.
  4. SR loss should be proportionate to the collision strength, e.g. a little for a nudge, more for a collision that causes a wobble in either car, and a lot for a big hit. (Nudges that might have gone unpunished before should be punished, but only a little. Then it's up to the player whether those mount up).
  5. SR gain should probably be less frequent, maybe per-lap rather than per-sector.
  6. Time penalties make no sense for collisions in a no-fault system, so keep them only for time-gaining behaviour, e.g. track cutting. edit: so remove them from collisions.
If PD did that, and focused solely on balancing SR gains / losses before dicking around with anything else, we'd be in a much better place. We'd know quite clearly what is expected of us. And more people would be finding their level of racing.
 
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2.There's no reason for DR points penalties of any kind, and every reason not to have them. SR and DR should be completely separate (apart from #1).

.
I disagree. It has been noted that some people use the 99 SR cushion in order to make dirty moves and win races and gain DR. The threat of DR loss for doing this means they will at least think twice.

Edit: It will be interesting to discover how these lost DR points are dealt with though... IMO they should be evenly distributed amongst the other competitors in the race, or added to the race pool.
 
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While I haven't played a Sport race since the update I can't imagine for a second, having read and seen most of the stuff in this thread, that it is going to be remotely better. The game didn't need penalties to be more severe, it needed them to be more appropriate to the offense in question not to mention balanced across the board in an even-handed way.

This all sounds like using a sledgehammer to bang a tiny little nail in, while I acknowledge that it's a game and not real life racing the current meta moves further and further away from an authentic experience. Motorsport is not a contact sport generally but contact IS almost always a factor in any race, in any discipline.

As much as purists will have you believe, a video racing game that essentially punishes all contact/mistakes/accidents in an uneven, tacked on way is neither fun, competitive or remotely realistic. I fully appreciate the idiots racers need to be punished accordingly but the vast majority of 'clean' and fair racers will often have accidents or make mistakes. People often forget that it's not just a case of someone knowing the car and track they are somehow supposed to also know the other racers- Lewis Hamilton knows how Seb Vettel drives, he knows what to anticipate, what the key traits are to bear in mind. Do you know what XxSniper457xX is going to do at the 4th turn on Dragon's Tail at 70mph? Of course, you don't and that's why if you think the game can and should be entirely non-contact then I'd say you are deluded.

The penalty system was already crass at best, countless times I've seen identical incidents dealt with in a multitude of ways. I've seen those punished for innocent or unavoidable incidents and those let off scot-free for the most egregious of maneuvers. Then there is a factor that the penalties are incredibly heavy-handed at times if you slightly cut the Monza chicane and gain a few tenths does it really warrant a 5 second penalty? The same penalty you'd get for cutting straight through it? Not to mention that 5 second penalty can often take more than 5 seconds to actually serve, and now it goes up if you don't take it quickly???? What's now to stop players simply lifting immediately after corners causing others to swerve/collide- who wins in this scenario?

Penalties exist in motorsport when they are deemed necessary, penalties exist in GT Sport it seems to pander to a ridiculous ideal that, for some reason, the game needs to deal with all players as if they were children. There's a host of ways to do this better and plenty of racing games have got this aspect far better in the past, the ghosting of backmarkers is a good addition but overall it seems to me like they have just made a poor system a lot worse.
 
I'm really looking forward to test sport mode out.

Its sounds like its the right way. No contact. point. If you are stuck behind a slower car, you have to wait until he is doing a mistake. If he doesn't, well, then you have to live with it. It remembers me to real f1 races, where you are stock behind a slower car, too. If you can't live with it, then give more effort to your qualifying time.

A "little" rubbing in a corner is enough to make you turn around yourself often.

I'm sure, after a while everybody will adjust himself. If the consequence is, that there will be very less overtaking in future, well, I'm fine with that. I'm tired of beeing ramed by a pack of rude guys in the first corners, because I was genlte to the guy in front of me and kept my distance to avoid raming him.

I'm an A Driver (DR 42000) and nearly always SR/99, and have over 270 races, so I think my feeling is not too wrong to what leads in long term to a clean race.
 
I disagree. It has been noted that some people use the 99 SR cushion in order to make dirty moves and win races and gain DR. The threat of DR loss for doing this means they will at least think twice.

I agree with this. I know this current system is harsh, although I've only fallen foul of it once in 6 or 7 races last night, but that was instigated by others bad driving/racing and I got tangled in the mayhem.

Something needed to be done as sport had become a bump and run game where nudging people off line, squeezing off track and general over aggressive behaviour had become common place. Clean races had started to dry up for me.

I feel there are to many at SR:S who shouldn't be there and I like the tie in of DR to SR because of what you mention above.

It definitely needs toning down from what we have now, but I like this direction.
 
Penalties exist in motorsport when they are deemed necessary, penalties exist in GT Sport it seems to pander to a ridiculous ideal that, for some reason, the game needs to deal with all players as if they were children.

Totally agree. If 1 second penalties were handed out to every driver whenever they touched each other, motorsport would be dead. There has to be some leeway and the previous system, while imperfect, didn't punish good racing. This one does.

I'd also add that in real racing, you don't serve penalties on the damn track! Now they're so much more frequent and harder to run down, you're constantly having to dodge cars slowing down in front you taking penalties. This only causes more accidents and more unfair penalties!

At the very least, cars serving penalties should be ghosted.
 
Just as a side note, and respectfully to those who keep mentioning it, but why do people assimilate this game to F1 all the time. It's not an F1 game and as a benchmark for what GT Sport should operate like, its a bad one. F1 is largely non-contact for very real and very serious reasons (yet rarely a race goes by without contact and these are at the pinnacle of motorsport drivers) But GT Sport covers disciplines where close, frantic and sometimes rubbing, racing is far more commonplace. Absolutely drivers will learn the simple truth that the cleaner you are, the faster you can be but I don't see the need to smash them over the head with a piano because they traded paint with an opponent.

Just a small point but let's compare apples with apples here.

Totally agree. If 1 second penalties were handed out to every driver whenever they touched each other, motorsport would be dead. There has to be some leeway and the previous system, while imperfect, didn't punish good racing. This one does.

I'd also add that in real racing, you don't serve penalties on the damn track! Now they're so much more frequent and harder to run down, you're constantly having to dodge cars slowing down in front you taking penalties. This only causes more accidents and more unfair penalties!

At the very least, cars serving penalties should be ghosted.

Excellent point about the ghosting penalty cars, I do wonder how it would work if the penalties you accumulated during a race were added to your time at the end, I think that would make idiot drivers think twice about how they drive.
 
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i dont mind swapping paint but i dont mind never touching another driver either. i wonder if this won't split up the top DR ranks though since it might be harder for some to maintain S SR and theres only 900-1000 DR S guys in the world as it is, without them being split between 3 different safety ratings
 
My experience was apparently better last night than some of you. I had gotten used to getting an SR penalty for getting hit from behind, but last night, I did not get the penalty for it. I got pushed off the track twice, no penalties for me - don't know about the other guy(s). I did get a time penalty when a lagger appeared in front of me - but overall, my SR rating went up, and my DR points increased. Perhaps one night is not enough of a sample size (I only raced in two races).
 
I can see a big fall in players in the Daily Races with penalties as harsh as that, thus making the matchmaking even more likely to put you in races with players with lower SR.


No race series in the world hands out a 2 second penalty for the tiniest of contact.
A little rub when you pass someone should be ok especially if they don't have the sense to share the road with you. The trouble is if you rub someone that often makes them think they have the right to knock you off the track at the next turn. It should be based on the force of impact. And then the brake checkers I think are really difficult to deal with. Will people be slamming on their brakes to run down their penalty in the racing line as your trying to draft them on the straight?
 
My experience was apparently better last night than some of you. I had gotten used to getting an SR penalty for getting hit from behind, but last night, I did not get the penalty for it. I got pushed off the track twice, no penalties for me - don't know about the other guy(s). I did get a time penalty when a lagger appeared in front of me - but overall, my SR rating went up, and my DR points increased. Perhaps one night is not enough of a sample size (I only raced in two races).
Likewise. Very confused reading this negativity today after getting a clean race bonus despite being bumped from behind twice last night.
 
Just run my first race under the new rules at Yamagiwa. People are almost being polite now, especially into the chicane at the bottom of the hill. Very Strange. Started 10th and finished 6th. Finished with a clean race bonus and apart from the Winner and myself, everyone else had a red penalty dot against them in the final timesheet.
 
Actually, I think it's the other way around :) One streamer that I've watched a few races of is not greatly skilled, but not terrible either. Gets into quite a few bumps purely due to lack of skill rather than intent. He's failed by the ratings system - mainly the resets on DR points caused by SR falling. So not only does his SR go wildly up and down, so does his DR points. That means he's rarely going to get matched with people like him, where he'd probably have more enjoyable races.

Re. ratings etc, I'm thinking the simpler the better:
  1. There's no reason for the DR letter to be anything other than simply limited to not being higher than SR letter (and that is purely cosmetic, since the matchmaking could treat it as that regardless).
  2. There's no reason for DR points penalties of any kind, and every reason not to have them. SR and DR should be completely separate (apart from #1).
  3. Attempting to apportion blame is futile, so SR should return to a no-fault system.
  4. SR loss should be proportionate to the collision strength, e.g. a little for a nudge, more for a collision that causes a wobble in either car, and a lot for a big hit. (Nudges that might have gone unpunished before should be punished, but only a little. Then it's up to the player whether those mount up).
  5. SR gain should probably be less frequent, maybe per-lap rather than per-sector.
  6. Time penalties make no sense for collisions in a no-fault system, so keep them only for time-gaining behaviour, e.g. track cutting.
If PD did that, and focused solely on balancing SR gains / losses before dicking around with anything else, we'd be in a much better place. We'd know quite clearly what is expected of us. And more people would be finding their level of racing.

I get your point mate but since the SR rating is connected to the penalty system (that is not "working") it will never be balanced if the penalty system stay the same.
The only thing PD did with the update was to make the penalty system more harsh or strict.And because of that,the problems that the penalty system has from the beginning are just getting more clear.
The talk about SR and penalty system is not something new.From closed beta till now there are many topics about those.
Problem is that many people did not realise that the penalty system is creating more problems than it solves.
I would be a really rich man if I had one $ every time someone posted here "Time will make the rating system sort itself out" or that "Penalty system is as good as it can be".
I keep mentioning iRacing because PD tried to copy their system.Difference is that in iRacing people dont get time penalties if someone hits them from behind.They simply get x (incident points).They'll get a stop and go penalty or -slow down- warning in case of going off track/jumping the start/passing under yellow -examples-.The total of incident points then auto calculate if you get a +/- SR rating in that race.
PD made it simple:anything will result to a time penalty :going off track,hitting another car,hitting a wall.That time penalty must be served on track during the race.
Now that system just became more strict and its easier to see why its not good.Some of us were saying that from the closed beta,others see it more clearly now.
With that being a problem there is no way to make the rating system work as it should.Why?Because SR and DR are connected to race results and the penalty system.If one part is not working then everything else has a problem too (chain reaction/effect).
So PD had the intention to create an "e-sport racing title" with simple-basic rules/penalties/rating system/physics and great graphics.
The truth is that the penalty system is not good enough and must be re-worked somehow.
 
Just as a side note, and respectfully to those who keep mentioning it, but why do people assimilate this game to F1 all the time. It's not an F1 game and as a benchmark for what GT Sport should operate like, its a bad one. F1 is largely non-contact for very real and very serious reasons (yet rarely a race goes by without contact and these are at the pinnacle of motorsport drivers) But GT Sport covers disciplines where close, frantic and sometimes rubbing, racing is far more commonplace. Absolutely drivers will learn the simple truth that the cleaner you are, the faster you can be but I don't see the need to smash them over the head with a piano because they traded paint with an opponent.

Just a small point but let's compare apples with apples here.

I disagree..
I'm not against paint trading, but the majority of the drivers out there do not know their limits, and the guy in front who drives clean suffers consequences.

Those drivers that want to trade paint, they first need to learn to race without contact, and after they've mastered that, then they can push the limits, and start trading paint. Learn to walk before you start to run. Some discipline is badly needed so I see this update as an improvement.
 
I had gotten used to getting an SR penalty for getting hit from behind, but last night, I did not get the penalty for it. I got pushed off the track twice, no penalties for me - don't know about the other guy(s).

This was my experience as well last night on the roval. I even got spun (PIT maneuver) on the short straight after turn 3 that caused major havoc with the crowd behind me, and I did not get a penalty.

The new penalty system has created a new breed of weird driving ("OMG do not touch me!") but, overall, I think it will turn out to be a positive change.
 
Excellent point about the ghosting penalty cars, I do wonder how it would work if the penalties you accumulated during a race were added to your time at the end, I think that would make idiot drivers think twice about how they drive.

I considered this too. Only downside is it means you have people racing out of position and causing problems for other players. Once someone has a big penalty they know they're stuck with, I imagine they'd have less incentive to race reasonably knowing they'll be demoted anyway.
 
Likewise. Very confused reading this negativity today after getting a clean race bonus despite being bumped from behind twice last night.
I think part of the problem is that PD leaves it to us to "discover" the rules and figure out how to work within them. When they change the rules, it becomes frustrating to the people that had learned to work within the old rules. Looks like PD has decided to de-emphasize SR gains/losses, and focus on time penalties instead. Again, this observation just from one night of experience.
 
I disagree. It has been noted that some people use the 99 SR cushion in order to make dirty moves and win races and gain DR. The threat of DR loss for doing this means they will at least think twice.

Edit: It will be interesting to discover how these lost DR points are dealt with though... IMO they should be evenly distributed amongst the other competitors in the race, or added to the race pool.

The threat of DR loss isn't going to stop them, yet DR penalties ruin the system. Not a fair trade!!

The only way to implement a DR loss in a way that's reasonable to the system is by position penalty at the end of the race. (I'm assuming for now that a disqualification counts the same as DNF did before, so that's OK). But for that, the system would need to apportion blame, which frankly it is crap at.

What isn't OK is taking points out of an Elo-based system, especially since there's no way to gain points except from other player's points. But start down that road and it isn't an Elo-based system any more, it's something else (which might be fine, but I wouldn't trust PD to design it!).

But also I firmly believe the two ratings should measure two different, separate, things, and just do the best they can at those. (Note that #1 in my post pretends to the user that they have been docked DR, and probably affects matchmaking as well). Then the matchmaking has the best information possible available to it.

Note that the key point of my post is that SR is the rating that needs most attention, since that 99 SR thing is a real problem. @Mr616 also.

I get your point mate but since the SR rating is connected to the penalty system (that is not "working") it will never be balanced if the penalty system stay the same.
The only thing PD did with the update was to make the penalty system more harsh or strict.And because of that,the problems that the penalty system has from the beginning are just getting more clear.
The talk about SR and penalty system is not something new.From closed beta till now there are many topics about those.
Problem is that many people did not realise that the penalty system is creating more problems than it solves.
I would be a really rich man if I had one $ every time someone posted here "Time will make the rating system sort itself out" or that "Penalty system is as good as it can be".
I keep mentioning iRacing because PD tried to copy their system.Difference is that in iRacing people dont get time penalties if someone hits them from behind.They simply get x (incident points).They'll get a stop and go penalty or -slow down- warning in case of going off track/jumping the start/passing under yellow -examples-.The total of incident points then auto calculate if you get a +/- SR rating in that race.
PD made it simple:anything will result to a time penalty :going off track,hitting another car,hitting a wall.That time penalty must be served on track during the race.
Now that system just became more strict and its easier to see why its not good.Some of us were saying that from the closed beta,others see it more clearly now.
With that being a problem there is no way to make the rating system work as it should.Why?Because SR and DR are connected to race results and the penalty system.If one part is not working then everything else has a problem too (chain reaction/effect).
So PD had the intention to create an "e-sport racing title" with simple-basic rules/penalties/rating system/physics and great graphics.
The truth is that the penalty system is not good enough and must be re-worked somehow.

Aren't you violently agreeing with me there? My points #3 and #6 basically say do away with fault and therefore do away with time penalties for collisions.

And I'm not saying nothing extra gets tacked on later, but first the SR has to have a solid core way of working. That is vital.
 
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